The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Ersula]

Not being An'she, but of An'she. As in, part of its essence, or its creation somehow.

The sun is not a crystal. You're trying to suggest Beledar is of the sun because the Arathi worship it, but the Arathi are not sun worshipers, even if Beledar is serving the same function as a sun for them. They worship Light.

[Joshuaj]

Not being An'she, but of An'she. As in, part of its essence, or its creation somehow.

I'll just assume I read that wrong, and you didn't simply edit the comment to make it look like you said that, so...yeah.

But fair enough. It being of An'she could also work, but again, not quite sure I agree.

[Limayria]

Then anything can be the truth and/or the lie, by your logic.

Like I said, it's bad storytelling having a lie over a lie over a lie. It's spitglue and it falls so quickly, Blizzard can't simply present now a new vision of what is happening on the world and simply saying in the next time "oh, it was a lie of a lie".

The whole point of him "lying" (being wrong) about Beledar is that it's a lie he was told by the people above him, in the same way he helped feed lies to the earthen to control them

A conspiracy at scale isn't just people lying about everything either, it's mixing true and false information to make it hard to separate fact from fiction, but there's a clear divide in the archives of first and second hand information, and in the context of the archives stories themselves being about how the titans use control of second hand information as a control lever it's communicating that there should be some level of skepticism towards second hand information from titan sources until it can be verified

[Joshuaj]

The sun is not a crystal. You're trying to suggest Beledar is of the sun because the Arathi worship it, but the Arathi are not sun worshipers, even if Beledar is serving the same function as a sun for them. They worship Light.

Tbf here, it is entirely possible An'she is either not the sun itself and is simply bound to the sun, or An'she's core would infuse itself with the Sun or it became the sun itself.

Regardless, I do think there could be Naaru links there.

[Timester]

The whole point of him "lying" (being wrong) about Beledar is that it's a lie he was told by the people above him, in the same way he helped feed lies to the earthen to control them

A conspiracy at scale isn't just people lying about everything either, it's mixing true and false information to make it hard to separate fact from fiction, but there's a clear divide in the archives of first and second hand information, and in the context of the archives stories themselves being about how the titans use control of second hand information as a control lever it's communicating that there should be some level of skepticism towards second hand information from titan sources until it can be verified

And yet, it's bad storytelling. You can't have a major reveal, changing the perspective of the world, and then saying "nah, it's all a lie".

Archaedas himself said he didn't knew why he was recording all the information if it was going to be deleted, as if he was influenced by Azeroth herself. Same Azeroth that called people to find out more about herself. It would make the entire plot of the Thraegar and the reawaken Earthen pointless.

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Regardless, I do think there could be Naaru links there.

Could be the complete opposite. The Naaru had to appear from somewhere, right?

[Limayria]

And yet, it's bad storytelling. You can't have a major reveal, changing the perspective of the world, and then saying "nah, it's all a lie".

Archaedas himself said he didn't knew why he was recording all the information if it was going to be deleted, as if he was influenced by Azeroth herself. Same Azeroth that called people to find out more about herself. It would make the entire plot of the Thraegar and the reawaken Earthen pointless.

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Could be the complete opposite. The Naaru had to appear from somewhere, right?

No on is saying it's all a lie, just that the character who we are getting information from could have been intentionally misled, in a parallel to how they are intentionally misleading people themself

I understand this is more complex than usual wow writing, but good writing is not "everyone always tells the truth and is 100% correct in what they believe is the truth"

The core of the reveal from the archives isn't anything to do with Beledar, it's about how the keepers are lying to the earthen to control them, and having evidence of th same tactics being used against the keepers would actually be an example of a well written parallel between the treatment the earth get from the keepers and the keepers get from the titans

Uncovering proof the beldar isn't a world soul crystal as meaningful evidence the titans deceived the keepers could very well play a role in TLT, establishing good relationships with some of the keepers even as we turn on the titans

[Enteroctopus Magnificus]

That we know that isn't, because there are other crystals on Azeroth, like the one related to Siren Isle.

The devs already clarified Beledar is not part of the sword. But it is possible the Crystalsworn relic on Siren's Isle is the top of Beledar.

It was actually an ironic reply. I've never believed this theory and have always found it incoherent.

That would be an explanation....if it was Beledar itself that was struck by the sword, but it wasn't. Azeroth itself was. Why would an alien god be affected by it that way?

Well, the sword is big and it's not that far from Beledar. The sword doesn't need to touch the crystal directly, as we know that the sword planted in Azeroth was bad for the whole planet. Its energy corrupted Beledar and caused the Day of Darkness.

Given the nature of Light to tip over into the Void, as we saw with the Naaru, it's not impossible that this energy could do the same to a member of the pantheon of Light. Beledar would be like a vulnerable chrysalis.

[Worldshaper]

The sun is not a crystal. You're trying to suggest Beledar is of the sun because the Arathi worship it, but the Arathi are not sun worshipers, even if Beledar is serving the same function as a sun for them. They worship Light.

I didn't say it was.

I'm saying it could have been formed from the sun's essence or the worldsoul's essence.

But in fact, one reason why I think the Sun is a more plausible origin for the Beledar, is because the Sun feels like it has more agency somehow. With it having a backstory tied to Elune and the Earth Mother, a pretty unknown identity to us, and possibly the power to create objects like the Beledar.

It just seems more logical than the Beledar being a "calcified chunks of goo," lol.

Heck we don't really know much about it. Maybe stars are literally Naaru Gods or something.

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I'll just assume I read that wrong, and you didn't simply edit the comment to make it look like you said that, so...yeah.

But fair enough. It being of An'she could also work, but again, not quite sure I agree.

I promise I didn't edit it, although it's easy enough to miss that "of". I could have written it out more clearly.

[Timester]

No on is saying it's all a lie, just that the character who we are getting information from could have been intentionally misled, in a parallel to how they are intentionally misleading people themself

I understand this is more complex than usual wow writing, but good writing is not "everyone always tells the truth and is 100% correct in what they believe is the truth"

The core of the reveal from the archives isn't anything to do with Beledar, it's about how the keepers are lying to the earthen to control them, and having evidence of th same tactics being used against the keepers would actually be an example of a well written parallel between the treatment the earth get from the keepers and the keepers get from the titans

Uncovering proof the beldar isn't a world soul crystal as meaningful evidence the titans deceived the keepers could very well play a role in TLT, establishing good relationships with some of the keepers even as we turn on the titans

Keep missing the point. The questline storytelling is about revelations, much like Magni's purpose on the first patch. It revealed new universe shattering informations.

Saying that part of it is a lie is just bad storytelling, because the memories reveal itself is about showing the real truth to the Earthen.

[Sondrelk]

No on is saying it's all a lie, just that the character who we are getting information from could have been intentionally misled, in a parallel to how they are intentionally misleading people themself

I understand this is more complex than usual wow writing, but good writing is not "everyone always tells the truth and is 100% correct in what they believe is the truth"

The core of the reveal from the archives isn't anything to do with Beledar, it's about how the keepers are lying to the earthen to control them, and having evidence of th same tactics being used against the keepers would actually be an example of a well written parallel between the treatment the earth get from the keepers and the keepers get from the titans

Uncovering proof the beldar isn't a world soul crystal as meaningful evidence the titans deceived the keepers could very well play a role in TLT, establishing good relationships with some of the keepers even as we turn on the titans

Which makes sense from a purely character based perspective. But not really from a narrative perspective.

We already had one assumption of what the Beledar is, what with it being light based and going back and forth from light and dark.

We are then told that it's actually world soul essence.
Now, if we focus squarely on Archaedas, then absolutely. He could easily have been misled and it's something else entirely but why would the story take such an unnecessary detour?

What is the logical next step is explaining what calcified world soul essence entails.
Is it just effectively a giant chunk of pure azerite? Azeroths immune system containing something inside? Conflux of ley lines? Etc.

All the explanation like it looking like Naaru symbols, Xal'atath's cloak looking similar, or the early concept art having a door doesn't really matter. All of those could just as easily be explained by something related to the Beledar being the world essence. Naaru stealing the symbols. Old gods looking for it way back when. It actually just being hollow despite being a crystal. Etc.

[Worldshaper]

Here's what I think is up with the messages:

1. An'she is a Sun God, just as Mu'sha/Elune is a Moon Goddess. Early in Azeroth's history, he sent the Beledar to watch over the worldsoul, while Elune made sure Elun'Ahir was planted.

2. The Void and the Titans messed up their plans. The Beledar is corrupted by Xal'atath. Elun'Ahir is torn down by Aman'Thul.

Later, they cover up their tracks by essentially burying the story and doing their own thing with the Manifold. Xal'atath, meanwhile was destroyed by her brothers and couldn't pursue her plans with the Beledar. So it was safe for a long time.

Much later, guardians were sent by Elune to protect Elun'Ahir. The Haranir.

Later still, the Beledar summoned its own guardians from Avaloren, the Arathi.

Just in time, too, because both the Beledar and Elun'Ahir are being used by the Void to corrupt the worldsoul and carry out "the awakening".

The High Elves call the sun "Belore". Wouldn't surprise me if An'she had a name like that. Belore, Baelor, Balor, or something.

Elune and Belore. Azeroth's guardians of the Light. The Beledar's and could even mean the Vessel of Light or something, with that in mind.

[Enteroctopus Magnificus]

Speaking of titans, wasn't there a brand new titan in a hearthstone expansion? She would have exiled herself before things went to shit from memory. Maybe she is the last titan... still really alive. Perhaps she didn't agree with the Pantheon's intention to take over the worldsoul.

[Ersula]

Here's what I think is up with the messages:

1. An'she is a Sun God, just as Mu'sha/Elune is a Moon Goddess. Early in Azeroth's history, he sent the Beledar to watch over the worldsoul, while Elune made sure Elun'Ahir was planted.

2. The Void and the Titans messed up their plans. The Beledar is corrupted by Xal'atath. Elun'Ahir is torn down by Aman'Thul.

Later, they cover up their tracks by essentially burying the story and doing their own thing with the Manifold. Xal'atath, meanwhile was destroyed by her brothers and couldn't pursue her plans with the Beledar. So it was safe for a long time.

Much later, guardians were sent by Elune to protect Elun'Ahir. The Haranir.

Later still, the Beledar summoned its own guardians from Avaloren, the Arathi.

Just in time, too, because both the Beledar and Elun'Ahir are being used by the Void to corrupt the worldsoul and carry out "the awakening".

The High Elves call the sun "Belore". Wouldn't surprise me if An'she had a name like that. Belore, Baelor, Balor, or something.

Elune and Belore. Azeroth's guardians of the Light. The Beledar's and could even mean the Vessel of Light or something, with that in mind.

But the Pantheons are just following the first one's designs. It wouldn't make sense for them to be circumventing each other. Aman'thul tore down Elun'ahir because he felt it was outside their perogative.

Also it would be strange if the sun suddenly had this big role in the cosmology. Elune, the goddess of the moon is doing things constantly. Elune has children, creates miracles & has her own religious dogma but the sun doesn't. There's basically no influence on Azeroth from this sun figure besides having a name, both mythically & historically.

[Merryck]

If Beledar is the calcified energies of Azeroth, why doesn't it have any blue in it? And why does it have those Naaru-esque engravings on it?

[Sondrelk]

If Beledar is the calcified energies of Azeroth, why doesn't it have any blue in it? And why does it have those Naaru-esque engravings on it?

Could be the blue is in the part we can't see in the roof of the cavern. Or maybe it's just golden since it's a pure crystal compared to the jagged pieces we found in BfA.

[Worldshaper]

But the Pantheons are just following the first one's designs. It wouldn't make sense for them to be circumventing each other. Aman'thul tore down Elun'ahir because he felt it was outside their perogative.

Also it would be strange if the sun suddenly had this big role in the cosmology. Elune, the goddess of the moon is doing things constantly. Elune has children, creates miracles & has her own religious dogma but the sun doesn't. There's basically no influence on Azeroth from this sun figure besides having a name, both mythically & historically.

That's up for debate, honestly.

It could be argued at this point that all Light is just Light. I.e. there's no difference between "regular" starlight, the light of a candle, and the radiance of a Naaru.

When you call on the Light, An'she might be your guy. Maybe he makes the Light more powerful on Azeroth, or easily accessible. Like a network router lol.

We have tauren Sunwalkers, and didn't those Arrakoa worship some sun diety? Different planet, I know, but still. High Elves kind of seem like sun worshipers to be honest.

Maybe the reason Elune is a bit more "popular" is simply because she got her Kaldorei Empire going at one point, which resulted a lot of temples in her name and organised religion.

The Tauren seem to dig An'she but they were never too organised.

Also who knows what the Arathi Empire will turn into. Maybe the other side of Azeroth is big on An'she and sun worship.

Only toying with the idea though.

It might just as well be the worldsoul depicted in that artwork, or perhaps it's meant to represent some cosmic "whole," as in a united power of the Light.

[Eldryth]

Speaking of titans, wasn't there a brand new titan in a hearthstone expansion? She would have exiled herself before things went to shit from memory. Maybe she is the last titan... still really alive. Perhaps she didn't agree with the Pantheon's intention to take over the worldsoul.

Yeah. Amitus the Peacekeeper, who mysteriously vanished after Sargeras's corruption.

Hard to say if she'll become canon though. The Hearthstone devs were pretty clear back when she was revealed that (like everything new in Hearthstone) she wasn't created to be part of canon lore, but WoW's devs sometimes decide to use stuff they like from Hearthstone.

[Ersula]

If Beledar is the calcified energies of Azeroth, why doesn't it have any blue in it? And why does it have those Naaru-esque engravings on it?

Why does everyone keep saying the markings on Beledar are Naaru-related. Naaru don't have engravings. Draenei ships are made from giant crystals but they don't have engravings like that either.

[Enteroctopus Magnificus]

Yeah. Amitus the Peacekeeper, who mysteriously vanished after Sargeras's corruption.

Hard to say if she'll become canon though. The Hearthstone devs were pretty clear back when she was revealed that (like everything new in Hearthstone) she wasn't created to be part of canon lore, but WoW's devs sometimes decide to use stuff they like from Hearthstone.

Yes, but it's a bit suspicious... I just checked and some classes didn't get a new titan like the paladin with Amitus, they got instead a forged by titans so the question is: why did they create a new titan only for the paladin but not for the other classes? Because they could simply have given them Tyr or someone else. The fact that she's the only one and that the last expansion in the saga is called The Last Titan really makes me think there's a link, but as you say, as long as it's not canon...

She may even have a link with Beledar, since Amitus has been linked to the paladin class, and therefore the Light.

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Why does everyone keep saying the markings on Beledar are Naaru-related. Naaru don't have engravings. Draenei ships are made from giant crystals but they don't have engravings like that either.

Because they want to see Naaru. Honestly, we've seen plenty of naaru in the past, and they weren't that exceptional. Beledar certainly is, so it's probably something much bigger and more powerful than just a Naaru, if there's anything in that giant crystal.

[Raetary]

Why does everyone keep saying the markings on Beledar are Naaru-related. Naaru don't have engravings. Draenei ships are made from giant crystals but they don't have engravings like that either.

The single ship the Draenei built was the Vindicaar.

All of Tempest keep and related ships are tech provided by the Naaru, and they are half covered in weird, symetrical engravings and symbols, both outside and inside.