The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[allegrian]

I mean it's clear TWW is full of plots that will now not be resolved for a while (Coreway, Siren Isle mysteries, Rootlands if it's not the finale, Arathi empire, Beledar) due to story shifts and the trilogy model they spoke about upfront.

I can see people being annoyed about this but I do think they are moving towards one-patch stories. Launch TWW had the earthen rebellion and us actually beating Xal which is pretty crazy for a launch storyline, then Undermine is almost completely self-contained.

I don't trust blizzard to "finish" the siren isle mysteries. It felt more like a side writing project from one writer to give some lore to the repurposed BFA island zone, so that blizzard can sell it as a minor content patch. They just reskinned the BFA azerite to be more like TWW beledar. The siren isle lore will be completely ignored from now on, and I fear the Coreway and haranir stuff will be as well after some quick TWW epilogue quests.

- - - Updated - - -

The pivot will definitely be less Arathi/Avaloren/Beledar versus less Titanshit, as "Titans not great" was a big plot of Danuserflight.

The jury is out on if Nerubians were ditched.

- - - Updated - - -



I don't think the self contained island stories were bad in BFA, but them ditching the Kul Tirans and Zandalari for racial leaders after the Battle for Zandalar was ridiculous.

DF was set up from the start to be about the titans and their wrongdoings. Tyr was probably going to be either the end boss or our ally vs iridikron, to then become a villain in the next expansion where he would've had a role in TWW.

Xalatath was probably repurposed by Metzen once he thought of the WSS and changed all the nerubian stuff to make them just her pawns.

[Cheezits]

DF was set up from the start to be about the titans and their wrongdoings. Tyr was probably going to be either the end boss or our ally vs iridikron, to then become a villain in the next expansion where he would've had a role in TWW.

I do agree with this. There were a lot of things in the background pointing towards Tyr secretly being shady and cruel, with the upcoming twist being their "reboot" of him would lead to him becoming his original self devoid of any empathy for the dragons. This lines up with how much the aspects dickride him during launch- it would've been a twist for him to come back as an asshole.

I think what they decided to do instead was to pivot the "Bad Keeper" to Odyn who makes more logical sense in this role regardless of Legion. This would be part of why the slapdashed "Vyranoth and Wrathion vs Odyn" thing was created so late in the game. However, the lore book in DF prepatch Uldaman does point towards Odyn being the bad guy originally through the lorebook showing he is an egoist censoring history, so it's still possible he was the end antagonist.

Regardless I now expect a Tyr vs Odyn civil war of sorts in TLT with Tyr PROBABLY being an ally of the dragons vs Odyn who historically doesn't like them or Tyr and would side with the Titans vs dragons/mortals immediately. Also they both are The Vrykul Guys and the Vrykul will probably be the face of the expansion + main antagonists of launch.

[Enrif]

I think with the TWW pacing we have to also not forget we lost a whole .5 patch for the anniversary event, which didn't pushed the story forward.

[Khaza-R]

Because there's no focus in the story. The world building, side stories and some character moments are very good, but the main plot makes no sense and there is no sense of direction like Mop, Wod or Legion had. It feels more like BFA, which focused on kul tiras/zandalar world building on the base game while the "main" plot went all over the place from patch to patch between faction war, azerite, azshara and nzoth.

Strongly disagree here.

We know the main plot. Xal'atath wants Azeroth's worldsoul. She needs to be Darkheart and black blood to do so. Alleria and now the Ethereals throw a wrench in her plans. I am not sure what about that doesn't make sense?

Its hell of a lot more concise and direct than Sylvanas, Azshara and N'zoth all haivng schemes that made no sense in BfA

[Sondrelk]

I don't really get what people were expecting from the Coreway. It's a giant elevator with the World Soul at the bottom. There isnt really a mystery to unravel that we are missing out on. We just didnt physically go visit the World Soul yet.
Given we know that TLT is the final expansion in the trilogy, it's fairly obvious that we will go visit the World Soul at that time. Rather than immediately and ruin the reveal early.

[Cheezits]

I don't really get what people were expecting from the Coreway. It's a giant elevator with the World Soul at the bottom. There isnt really a mystery to unravel that we are missing out on. We just didnt physically go visit the World Soul yet.
Given we know that TLT is the final expansion in the trilogy, it's fairly obvious that we will go visit the World Soul at that time. Rather than immediately and ruin the reveal early.

Regardless of what the devs have stated outright, it is fairly understandable that someone would be miffed that important aspects of the $50 expansion story would only be visited and concluded $100 and two-three years later. However I don't think the worldcore plot is as narratively important as Sylvanas running away from BFA or the worldtree/Nelf grief plot taking three whole expansions to be resolved.

TWW can end without the worldcore and still end in a satisfying way IMO, but it definitely won't deal with a lot of things from launch Khaz Algar. Considering the two most popular groups so far to the mass audience (Arathi, Undermine) have little to nothing to do with the expansion plot I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.

TWW has the vibe that it works AROUND the initial expansion idea, considering on how much post-launch is focused on anything but the Earthen and Nerubians... there's a chance that 11.2 has them both reconnect with Orweyna, but also they may never be seen again for years.

[Khaza-R]

Idk. The nerubian story is definitely unfinished.

But the earthen we helped stablize things and free them from the edicts. Seems natural their story might not progress again until TLT and dealing with titan conspiracies

[Sondrelk]

Idk. The nerubian story is definitely unfinished.

But the earthen we helped stablize things and free them from the edicts. Seems natural their story might not progress again until TLT and dealing with titan conspiracies

The Nerubian story is unfinished. But we also know that the next patch will have more story for them. So definitely not abandoned on that front.

[Nymrohd]

Regardless of what the devs have stated outright, it is fairly understandable that someone would be miffed that important aspects of the $50 expansion story would only be visited and concluded $100 and two-three years later. However I don't think the worldcore plot is as narratively important as Sylvanas running away from BFA or the worldtree/Nelf grief plot taking three whole expansions to be resolved.

TWW can end without the worldcore and still end in a satisfying way IMO, but it definitely won't deal with a lot of things from launch Khaz Algar. Considering the two most popular groups so far to the mass audience (Arathi, Undermine) have little to nothing to do with the expansion plot I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.

TWW has the vibe that it works AROUND the initial expansion idea, considering on how much post-launch is focused on anything but the Earthen and Nerubians... there's a chance that 11.2 has them both reconnect with Orweyna, but also they may never be seen again for years.

Here is the thing. If you start a trilogy about an event, you don't start with the first chapter telling you how this thing will END THE WORLD only to visit said thing in the last couple of chapters of the final book. The World Soul trilogy starts with the Radiant Song and then Locus Walker telling us this happened on his planet before Dimensius invaded.
Imo this should happen at the END of TWW. We should have been brought to TWW by Xal'atath (who needed us there to feed the black blood), NOT by the Radiant Song. The Song should have happened at the end of the expansion in something related to the Beledar. Magni could have tied in through his family and the Earthen. Maybe the song could have been hinted at with maybe Anduin or Thrall hearing something but not the full thing. You could have had Anduin get the full Song when Xal was attacking the Beledar after the Palace raid but he wouldn't understand what happened and it would just be him. Or maybe even better, make it happen to just the player, with us confused after with no one else knowing what happened.

[Cheezits]

Here is the thing. If you start a trilogy about an event, you don't start with the first chapter telling you how this thing will END THE WORLD only to visit said thing in the last couple of chapters of the final book. The World Soul trilogy starts with the Radiant Song and then Locus Walker telling us this happened on his planet before Dimensius invaded.

I have a feeling the TWW intro was frontloaded with later lore (Radiant Song, Karesh tease from LW, Gorribal/The Sword) because the team was not confident that TWW was hype enough on its own. Also why 11.1's ending is teasing something that may not even be in the expansion (Karesh).

Not that TWW is bad but it's definitely the redheaded stepchild of the trilogy, conceptually, and that is most likely because it was initially designed to be as standalone as DF was.

If Rootlands happens it's going to be as much of a whiplash (to casual players unaware of Rootlands datamining) as Sylvanas leaving BFA/Iridikron leaving DF, so I expect if that is revealed there will be some kind of reveal about Midnight at the same time to "ease the pain". Or they think Haranir Druids/Earthen Druids?/playable Ascended??? will make up for it.

[Jolly Roger]

Also here is my second issue with the main story. We did NOT start TWW chasing Xal'atath. We started it searching for information on the Radiant Song. Yet we've spent the expansion chasing Xal'atath while our focus should be the Worldcore.

thats because we got pulled there by xal
the nerubians were a big threat and our focus
then we killed the queen and xal did her thing in hallowfall where we got back dadgar

[Lady Atia]

I have a feeling the TWW intro was frontloaded with later lore (Radiant Song, Karesh tease from LW, Gorribal/The Sword) because the team was not confident that TWW was hype enough on its own. Also why 11.1's ending is teasing something that may not even be in the expansion (Karesh).

Not that TWW is bad but it's definitely the redheaded stepchild of the trilogy, conceptually, and that is most likely because it was initially designed to be as standalone as DF was.

If Rootlands happens it's going to be as much of a whiplash (to casual players unaware of Rootlands datamining) as Sylvanas leaving BFA/Iridikron leaving DF, so I expect if that is revealed there will be some kind of reveal about Midnight at the same time to "ease the pain". Or they think Haranir Druids/Earthen Druids?/playable Ascended??? will make up for it.

Rootlands can be our "catch up" island with Karesh being the big zone for the third tier though. I mean, LoU basically just reused most of Undermine plus the interrior of the Gallagio, so not many ressources went into it from a zone design PoV.

[Cheezits]

Rootlands can be our "catch up" island with Karesh being the big zone for the third tier though. I mean, LoU basically just reused most of Undermine plus the interrior of the Gallagio, so not many ressources went into it from a zone design PoV.

Good call on Rootlands possibly being catch up island but you think they would've had that in the timeline. The lack of that + Orweyna not even mattering at the end of Undermine makes it feel abandoned.

Also, and this is a stretch, but they didn't bother to give her any more druid forms in 11.1 either. Versus all the ethereals that are in the files.

[Lady Atia]

Good call on Rootlands possibly being catch up island but you think they would've had that in the timeline. The lack of that + Orweyna not even mattering at the end of Undermine makes it feel abandoned.

Also, and this is a stretch, but they didn't bother to give her any more druid forms in 11.1 either. Versus all the ethereals that are in the files.

Tbf, they didn't even have the .2 zone on the roadmap initially, so it may be just to not spoil things / leave something for the full patch reveal.

[Cheezits]

*whispers* the "rootlands" of Khaz Algar is just her origins story, and she will be our guide as we head into the real "rootlands", a.k.a. the Rift of Aln, in Midnight.

Think of it like Iridikron's introduction. He came out of the Vault of Incarnates with his crew, ended up alone and saved for a future expansion in his real lair on Northrend.

Rift of Aln feels more like TLT if it doesn't come back for TWW. It can tie into Freya and Sholazar Basin while there aren't any druidy areas in North EK save for the Hinterlands tree.

But yeah we are probably gearing up for a tying in of whatever that root god is from Chronicle.

[Hitei]

By the way, was it ever explained why, when he was freed at the Circle of Stars, N'Zoth just sort of whisked away like an inky, swirling cloud?

There are huge, blue, magical chains going down into the depths below the platform during the raid encounter with Queen Azshara. Once those break, he just sort of emerges like an angry spirit from below. Why isn't he chained as an actual body?.

Because it's impractical to have something that is supposed to be literal mountain sized just bodily move around, and because the practical limitations of the game's development meant that N'zoth was going to be freed at the end of 8.2, but we were not going to actually face him until 8.3. It would have felt borderline silly (and a design headache) for a giant old god to just be released and then sit there waving its arms in the middle of the ocean for months, doing absolutely nothing until the next patch.

So instead they had him spirit away to to the unknown, and then come back in the instanced raid where they could have a skybox and modeled tentacles with the knowledge that players would be locked to specific angles and views.

[Joshuaj]

Xal'atath whispers: "Almost completely gone, as if it never existed. But the rift is deep and vast, and somewhere down there it stirs. Something has changed, the last prison weakens. We must prepare."

By the way, was it ever explained why, when he was freed at the Circle of Stars, N'Zoth just sort of whisked away like an inky, swirling cloud?

There are huge, blue, magical chains going down into the depths below the platform during the raid encounter with Queen Azshara. Once those break, he just sort of emerges like an angry spirit from below. Why isn't he chained as an actual body? Did the Titans merely imprison his spirit? Are Old Gods able to appear as black swirly clouds? And why does he later emerge in physical form inside the Ny'alotha raid?

Something is fishy about all of this, man.

No reason. N'Zoth is a magical entity of the Void. It's literally a portion of a Void Lord. Of course it can be capable of transforming into dark energy.

[Hitei]

Also here is my second issue with the main story. We did NOT start TWW chasing Xal'atath. We started it searching for information on the Radiant Song. Yet we've spent the expansion chasing Xal'atath while our focus should be the Worldcore.

You have this backwards. The very first prologue TWW quest was literally called "The Harbinger", and was part of the questline "Hunt for the Harbinger". TWW started with us helping Alleria attempt to track down Xal'atath, and then when the trail went cold and Locus-Walker pointed out that K'aresh had experienced something similar, the Radiant Song became our only lead towards finding and stopping Xal.

We were searching for information on the Radiant Song in order to chase Xal'atath.

[Alanar]

Because it's impractical to have something that is supposed to be literal mountain sized just bodily move around, and because the practical limitations of the game's development meant that N'zoth was going to be freed at the end of 8.2, but we were not going to actually face him until 8.3. It would have felt borderline silly (and a design headache) for a giant old god to just be released and then sit there waving its arms in the middle of the ocean for months, doing absolutely nothing until the next patch.

So instead they had him spirit away to to the unknown, and then come back in the instanced raid where they could have a skybox and modeled tentacles with the knowledge that players would be locked to specific angles and views.

Tbh, it would have been a bit more believeable if we would see this huge black mass in the shape of hes head in the back with the big red eyes and use hes tentacles to cover most of the mass and use those as well to grab Azshara, while pulling her up. Animating a set of N zoth tentacles in that cinematic would have just hit way harder.

Players would have probably just get the picture better as well as we would all just get its the shape and size of N zoth, preparing us or better yet reminding us that THIS thing is now free. The black smoke we got, just dimminshed hes whole pressence imo. Understandable we didnt get the full shape and even in the actual fight, its not really a massive upgrade animation and modelwise, like say; C thun, which also just was an upper body and some tentacles here and there. Limitations or not, it just didnt do any of it justice imo.

[Hitei]

I wouldn't say "of course", since I don't think we've seen that ability prior or since?

https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Sha