The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Joshuaj]

Tbf here, we don't know if they did ditch her or not.

[Khaza-R]

I'm ngl I am really tired of this thing continually happening at this point. What even was the point of having her in the second Cinematic for the expansion.

Obviously, I wonder what the original plan was for this expansion now and honestly even if I am happier with the outcome of the McGuffin leading us to Undermine and K'aresh instead. Its still just worrying that they can't seemingly not have scatterbrain and just execute on a plan for one damn expansion.

They really need to not have this obvious thing in the middle of expansion for Midnight where people start to ask if they pivoted (well pivot patches are a different issue.. But this whole entire story pivots from concept to something else is getting a bit nonsensical at this point.)

I think the black blood and rootlands was the original plan. At least that's where the plot was all but pointing to until Azir showed up.

Looking back they clearly sprinkled ethereals here and there throughout the expansion for K'aresh to make sense after the fact and like it wasn't an abrupt pivot. Or least that's my take on how its unfolding.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

I mean, I certainly understand that The War Within was made under special circumstances in which they had a original plan that had to be changed around for the Saga and what Metzen brought to the table. Its just, why even have the residual existence of Orweyna, the Black Blood, Rootlands and the potential more importance layed upon Beledar.

I mean I suppose they could conclude her story arc in the epilogue or minor patches going forward even with a K'aresh outcome. Its just, interesting how we keep finding ourselves in these positions now.

[Cheezits]

They can also have the Rootlands be under Sholozar. Would make a lot of sense imo.

Get into the niitty gritty of it while we have Freya around.

[Joshuaj]

Y'all really overhype the changes Metzen brought in to The War Within. He actually liked what they originally had planned, but Metzen's changes were primarily focused on celebrating Warcraft's 20th anniversary. And due to the massive plans they had for the soul of Azeroth, Metzen and co felt the need to stretch it out in a 3 part saga.

[Cheezits]

I'm ngl I am really tired of this thing continually happening at this point. What even was the point of having her in the second Cinematic for the expansion.

Because it was constructed way early in advance.

[Joshuaj]

They can also have the Rootlands be under Sholozar. Would make a lot of sense imo.

Get into the niitty gritty of it while we have Freya around.

I mean, tbf here, we don't actually know the true size of Elun'ahir or its roots. It's entirely possible the roots extend across the world.

[Cheezits]

I mean, tbf here, we don't actually know the true size of Elun'ahir or its roots. It's entirely possible the roots extend across the world.

Definitely, but based on the lorebook its probably primarily under one of the life craters. Un'goro would make sense but is currently irrelevant. Sholozar could be a reason we get Freya and/or Eonar on our side because Elun'ahir is their secret baby.

Actually... if we go near the sword at the end of TLT, it could be Un'goro. That could line up with how the Rootlands got shifted around as, I believe, tying the saga into Gorribal was a Metzen idea.

[Joshuaj]

Definitely, but based on the lorebook its probably primarily under one of the life craters. Un'goro would make sense but is currently irrelevant. Sholozar could be a reason we get Freya and/or Eonar on our side because Elun'ahir is their secret baby.

Actually... if we go near the sword at the end of TLT, it could be Un'goro. That could line up with how the Rootlands got shifted around as, I believe, tying the saga into Gorribal was a Metzen idea.

I think we were always gonna return to Gorribal regardless. Metzen was just the one to properly guide Blizzard to that point.

[Eldryth]

https://bsky.app/profile/portergauge.../3llk4npvsvs2l

Looks like they are offscreening resolutions to the Nerubian plot: Ytheki broke control from Xal.

I now fully think they are ditching Orweyna lol.

It would have been so easy to give an actual explanation here too- they could have just said that Xal'atath doesn't need or care about the Nerubians anymore so she's not bothering to control them, for example. This feels like a lazy non-answer instead.

I think the black blood and rootlands was the original plan. At least that's where the plot was all but pointing to until Azir showed up.

Looking back they clearly sprinkled ethereals here and there throughout the expansion for K'aresh to make sense after the fact and like it wasn't an abrupt pivot. Or least that's my take on how its unfolding.

I was sure that all that would still be in, since they surely would have known by launch if they were changing course and could have just left all that mystery they were building up out. Now, though... the Ethereals have clearly become a bigger plot thread for TWW specifically, the entire main story has been about chasing the Dark Heart (which is now on K'aresh), and Undermined ended with a pretty explicit tease that we'd be going to K'aresh next.

At this point, I wonder if Orwenya leaving really was the last we'll see of the rest of her people for now, and they'll be left as a long-term plot hook like the Arathi Empire. I do think that she will stick around, since they kind of made a big point of her being the one speaking for Azeroth now, but she might be the only Haranir we see for a long while.

They can also have the Rootlands be under Sholozar. Would make a lot of sense imo.

Get into the niitty gritty of it while we have Freya around.

That could work too, Eonar and Freya were heavily involved in Elun'ahir's history. I thought that visiting it was going to be a great time to learn more about them before TLT, but I guess it makes sense for them to actually be there for it.

Speaking of Sholazar, I'm looking forward to seeing if they use those Worldsoul crystals we heard about to finally explain all those colored crystals there and in Un'Goro.

[Joshuaj]

Hey guys, I have a potential expansion concept. Instead of an all out Disorder saga like I initially speculated, what if it's just a singular expansion?

Think of it like this: 4 warring demon groups represented by their most powerful and respected demons/entities. Each group would rule on a former Legion world (One on Argus, one on Xoroth, one on Rancora, and one on Nathreza). They all want to attack Azeroth, but they're all caught in a war against one another on the broken remnants of Outland. Thus, we would follow the Draenei + Illidan and co to Outland, and get an expansion based on those areas.

Outland revamp and a return to Argus for ??.0, Xoroth + Nathreza + Rancora for ??.1, and whatever the heck for ??.2 (That, or either Xoroth or Nathreza can be saved for the .2 patch).

These remnants would be our "Pantheon of Disorder" for example. No gods, no demonic originators of any kind. Just Demons who made different groups VIA taking notes from their Burning Crusade.

I mean, the Auchenai are trying to rebuild Shattrath and Auchindoun, I'm fairly certain. And with Denathrius still at large + the Demons kinda being in a weird state post-Burning Legion, I wouldn't be shocked if there was an all out war expansion focused on them.

Besides, a whole saga on Disorder probably wouldn't be the best idea, especially since every WoW expac so far has focused on 1 specific theme for that specific time.

[PenguinChan]

Why are so many people sure we’re getting playable ethereals? Last I checked they aren’t exactly allied with either faction and most of their kind don’t interact with us or they’re the corrupt ones.

[Joshuaj]

It would have been so easy to give an actual explanation here too- they could have just said that Xal'atath doesn't need or care about the Nerubians anymore so she's not bothering to control them, for example. This feels like a lazy non-answer instead.



I was sure that all that would still be in, since they surely would have known by launch if they were changing course and could have just left all that mystery they were building up out. Now, though... the Ethereals have clearly become a bigger plot thread for TWW specifically, the entire main story has been about chasing the Dark Heart (which is now on K'aresh), and Undermined ended with a pretty explicit tease that we'd be going to K'aresh next.

At this point, I wonder if Orwenya leaving really was the last we'll see of the rest of her people for now, and they'll be left as a long-term plot hook like the Arathi Empire. I do think that she will stick around, since they kind of made a big point of her being the one speaking for Azeroth now, but she might be the only Haranir we see for a long while.



That could work too, Eonar and Freya were heavily involved in Elun'ahir's history. I thought that visiting it was going to be a great time to learn more about them before TLT, but I guess it makes sense for them to actually be there for it.

Speaking of Sholazar, I'm looking forward to seeing if they use those Worldsoul crystals we heard about to finally explain all those colored crystals there and in Un'Goro.

It might just be a thing we expected to see handled in 11.2, but will likely be handled during a later expansion instead. Afterall, we don't actually know where her home is.

- - - Updated - - -

God, I really want to see Xoroth.

[The-Shan]

Y'all really overhype the changes Metzen brought in to The War Within. He actually liked what they originally had planned, but Metzen's changes were primarily focused on celebrating Warcraft's 20th anniversary. And due to the massive plans they had for the soul of Azeroth, Metzen and co felt the need to stretch it out in a 3 part saga.

Bobby Kotick said in an interview that Metzen -didn't- like what they were doing, and you can tell in Metzen's own interviews that he was trying to sugarcoat his dislike for what was being set-up.

However, Metzen was unimpressed by plans for the next two expansions, suggesting they needed to be "redone" entirely.

(Kotick interview)
https://www.ign.com/articles/former-...ce=chatgpt.com

[Joshuaj]

Bobby Kotick said in an interview that Metzen -didn't- like what they were doing, and you can tell in Metzen's own interviews that he was trying to sugarcoat his dislike for what was being set-up.


(Kotick interview)
https://www.ign.com/articles/former-...ce=chatgpt.com

...You really just threw a Bobby Kotick interview at me? Really? You honestly expect me to believe a word that comes out of his mouth? Come on now, not even you believe it.

Besides, I'd rather believe what Metzen himself said, thank you very much

- - - Updated - - -

[Teriz]

Why are so many people sure we’re getting playable ethereals? Last I checked they aren’t exactly allied with either faction and most of their kind don’t interact with us or they’re the corrupt ones.

Because they look cool. That’s about it.

Personally, I think we’re getting playable Nerubians in Midnight. A void-based race for a void-based expansion.

[Cheezits]

Bobby Kotick said in an interview that Metzen -didn't- like what they were doing, and you can tell in Metzen's own interviews that he was trying to sugarcoat his dislike for what was being set-up.


(Kotick interview)
https://www.ign.com/articles/former-...ce=chatgpt.com

From the tone of it, I bet we wouldn't have gone to Quelthalas at all

[Joshuaj]

From the tone of it, I bet we wouldn't have gone to Quelthalas at all

Why are we taking anything that guy is saying seriously?

He has the nerve to say this shit in the same interview: "Our expansions were late. You know, patches weren't getting done on time. And the movie was terr— it was one of the worst movies I've ever seen."

DAWG YOU WERE THE CEO OF ACTIVISION AT THE TIME!!!

- - - Updated - - -

Metzen came back, saw the initial plans of TWW and was impressed by it, but he wanted to add onto it. Obviously the expansion would eventually become the War Within, but the plan to make it a saga was something he, Terran, and MAYBE Danuser before he left planned out.

I don't think Blizzard fully knew what would occur post-War Within prior to Metzen ngl.

- - - Updated - - -

Heck, that's likely part of why they brought him back.

- - - Updated - - -

Idk, feels rather dishonest for us to shit on Bobby for being a scumbag, only to believe every word he says once he starts playing the victim in all of this.

- - - Updated - - -

Like, y'all do realize he's playing you for fools, yeah? It's deception VIA gaslighting, simple as that.

[Khaza-R]

I was sure that all that would still be in, since they surely would have known by launch if they were changing course and could have just left all that mystery they were building up out. Now, though... the Ethereals have clearly become a bigger plot thread for TWW specifically, the entire main story has been about chasing the Dark Heart (which is now on K'aresh), and Undermined ended with a pretty explicit tease that we'd be going to K'aresh next.

At this point, I wonder if Orwenya leaving really was the last we'll see of the rest of her people for now, and they'll be left as a long-term plot hook like the Arathi Empire. I do think that she will stick around, since they kind of made a big point of her being the one speaking for Azeroth now, but she might be the only Haranir we see for a long while.

If it was indeeed cut then I think there's a chance it could be relevant again in TLT.

I could see the worldcore being part of Iridikron's story. And the haranir might pop up again when dealing with Freya.

Why are so many people sure we’re getting playable ethereals? Last I checked they aren’t exactly allied with either faction and most of their kind don’t interact with us or they’re the corrupt ones.

The way the story is unfolding it pointing towards a civil war of sorts between the Ethereals.

The Shadowguard are allied with Xal'atath and Dimensius. While the Etherium hates Dimensius and seems to want to thwart Xal'atath. So it be the enemy of my enemy type situation.

[Eldryth]

From the tone of it, I bet we wouldn't have gone to Quelthalas at all

Yeah, even the Metzen video interview itself sounds like that.

When I came back, I'm like, "All right, let's go! World of Warcraft, what do we got? What are we making? And they had already been doing War Within, or what would become, you know, War Within, for about ten months. While I liked what they were building and thought it was a cool next chapter in WoW, in my head I'm like, "For the 20th anniversary of WoW, like, I want to have a feeling, like, whatever the product becomes, I want to have a feeling of pulling all the toys out of the toy box."
The older characters, the kind of macro themes that this series has been about all of these years- Titans, Old Gods, Light and Dark- I wanted to feel like the anniversary was capturing, you know, like, this kind of mix of all of the core flavors, and ultimately proofing out that there has been this storyline all the way through, that everything kind of converges into this crescendo. And in a very real way, how The War Within was shaping up, they were like, "Yeah, dude, there's no way on Earth, right? You know, that's going to divert the course of mighty rivers. There's no way to get that done on top of what we're already in production of." So that began this idea of a larger Saga.

There was no larger story arc in mind for the first 10 months of TWW's development. He might have liked it as a standalone expansion in a vacuum, but by Metzen's own account, it was his idea to bring in all of the older stuff and turn it into the prologue of a bigger story, and the rest of the dev team was skeptical about it at first.

I'd speculate that initially, it was just going to be a one-off adventure where we hunt down and kill Xal'atath in Khaz Algar, and then we'd go do something completely different from the current plans in 12.0. Maybe the Arathi Empire? That probably would have been my guess for the next expansion based only on what we're seeing in game, if we hadn't already known about the Saga.