The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[milkmustache]

Ngl, I do think they need to touch on the Demons, Outland, and Denathrius again. An expansion on that would be fine.

I don't think there's any reason for us to go to Outland, a broken planet that continues to break further. Midnight (or even 11.2) may give us an off world patch, but I think that'll be it for a good while.

There also isn't a reason for us to visit any of these demon planets, especially for an entire expansion. There's plenty of stories to continue on Azeroth and with the developing threads, particularly with the Arathi Empire, all signs point to us staying here for the long run

[Joshuaj]

With how Legion did it's worlds and whatnot, something like that shouldn't be too impossible.

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I don't think there's any reason for us to go to Outland, a broken planet that continues to break further. Midnight (or even 11.2) may give us an off world patch, but I think that'll be it for a good while.

There also isn't a reason for us to visit any of these demon planets, especially for an entire expansion. There's plenty of stories to continue on Azeroth and with the developing threads, particularly with the Arathi Empire, all signs point to us staying here for the long run

There are recent stories regarding the Demons, there are talks of the Auchenai reclaiming and rebuilding places in Outland, Denathrius is still out there, and the stuff with Sargeras and Illidan might lead to some big future lore implications.

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Sure, there are lots of stories on Azeroth, but the Demon stuff is still an open book rn, and ngl, us returning to Outland would be cool imo.

[Khaza-R]

I don't think there's any reason for us to go to Outland, a broken planet that continues to break further. Midnight (or even 11.2) may give us an off world patch, but I think that'll be it for a good while.

There also isn't a reason for us to visit any of these demon planets, especially for an entire expansion. There's plenty of stories to continue on Azeroth and with the developing threads, particularly with the Arathi Empire, all signs point to us staying here for the long run

Eh. I don't think its impossible there are other parts of Draenor that survived like Outland. I wouldn't mind seeing that.

Especialy if it ended up being a sort of mirror of the Arathi. An Orcish culture that not only survived but actually advanced using Apexis technology. Could be an interesting way to progress the orcs story in way that isn't endlessly rehashing "muh honor"

[Hitei]

I expect Alvaloren into maybe a proper fight against Light forces and then maybe we'll finally get around to Elune. By that point we'll be like 10-15 years out from Endwalker so they could even do a moon expansion without having to dance around "omg you're just copying FF!"

[Joshuaj]

Besides, Xoroth, Rancora, Nathreza, Nihilam, and Krexan have been talked about in the lore for a while now. I'd love to go there and see what's up, even if for a little bit.

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I expect Alvaloren into maybe a proper fight against Light forces and then maybe we'll finally get around to Elune. By that point we'll be like 10-15 years out from Endwalker so they could even do a moon expansion without having to dance around "omg you're just copying FF!"

If we get to Elune, wouldn't it make more sense to introduce her in a Life based expac? Sure, the moon would be cool and all, but I feel like, if we explore Azeroth's biggest moon, we'd also have to explore the rest of Azeroth's celestial bodies in a way, which imo wouldn't scream "Life based expac", unless you make it to where the celestial bodies expac could lead into a Life based expac or so.

[milkmustache]

Eh. I don't think its impossible there are other parts of Draenor that survived like Outland. I wouldn't mind seeing that.

Especialy if it ended up being a sort of mirror of the Arathi. An Orcish culture that not only survived but actually advanced. Could be an interesting way to progress the orcs story in way that isn't endlessly rehashing "muh honor"

Sure. There are pieces of Draenor and Outland's lore that could recovered from obscurity and provide really interesting stories.

But these aren't necessarily demon focused expansions. I don't think that hopping from X world to Y world that X warlock minion and Y cannon fodder demon hail from is remotely in play.

Besides, Xoroth, Rancora, Nathreza, Nihilam, and Krexan have been talked about in the lore for a while now. I'd love to go there and see what's up, even if for a little bit.

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If we get to Elune, wouldn't it make more sense to introduce her in a Life based expac? Sure, the moon would be cool and all, but I feel like, if we explore Azeroth's biggest moon, we'd also have to explore the rest of Azeroth's celestial bodies in a way, which imo wouldn't scream "Life based expac", unless you make it to where the celestial bodies expac could lead into a Life based expac or so.

Those planets would serve better purposes as locations for questlines in a hypothetical future Warlock or Demon Hunter class order hall or some sort of limited event. I don't think they are places that we should go to for main content.

Re Elune; I think that it'd be a bit odd to not at least touch upon the concept of whatever Elune is when addressing the Light on a cosmic scale. I still think the idea of Elune works far better by keeping a shroud of mystery on her and never truly revealing what she is, but she deserves mention in these various themes.

[allegrian]

When should we expect the next patch reveal?

[Joshuaj]

Sure. There are pieces of Draenor and Outland's lore that could recovered from obscurity and provide really interesting stories.

But these aren't necessarily demon focused expansions. I don't think that hopping from X world to Y world that X warlock minion and Y cannon fodder demon hail from is remotely in play.



Those planets would serve better purposes as locations for questlines in a hypothetical future Warlock or Demon Hunter class order hall or some sort of limited event. I don't think they are places that we should go to for main content.

Re Elune; I think that it'd be a bit odd to not at least touch upon the concept of whatever Elune is when addressing the Light on a cosmic scale. I still think the idea of Elune works far better by keeping a shroud of mystery on her and never truly revealing what she is, but she deserves mention in these various themes.

Idk, I think we're kinda wasting some cool lore potential for some of these areas if they do that.

I mean, maybe one of these areas could he zones, with another area being a raid or so, but idk. I still think there should be Demonic Factions within different zones though.

But, it would be cool if the Demonic worlds went something like this:

??.0: Outland Revamp, us returning to Argus, Rancora raid.

??.1: Nathreza zone, Xoroth raid.

??.2: Krexan zone, Nihilam raid.

Yeah, that would fit better imo.

[Hitei]

If we get to Elune, wouldn't it make more sense to introduce her in a Life based expac?.

Life doesn't inherently mean Emerald Dream 2.0. After having already done Valsharah, Ardenweald and the Emerald Dream proper, any future exploration of a "Life" zone or group of zones is going to instead push for what else life could look like besides green stuff. Any zone actually themed around Elune isn't going to be a green mossy forest, it'll be a nighttime glowy celestial space with arcane/astral flare. Like AU Shadowmoon Valley or to some extent, Suramar.

I think it is unlikely that they'd ever do "Shadowlands, but Life" as a core expansion concept. It would make much more sense to set an Elune expansion on the moon, and have glowing plains of grass and bioluminescent deep jungles on the dark side, with more green patch zones or raids than just do "Emerald Dream but bigger" as an expansion.

[Joshuaj]

That's what I mean tho. Life would be about different areas of it, from a endless farmland, to a land full of algae and whatnot, to a forest that's basically the Dream but far more lunar and fantastical, etc. Though, you're right in that we'll probably never see an expansion like Shadowlands, but for Life. Though, IF we did, Blizzard could easily excuse it. Maybe the Life "realm" would simply involve Life reflections of different worlds across the cosmos? Maybe each reflection could be linked to a Life Realm? Idk.

[milkmustache]

Idk, I think we're kinda wasting some cool lore potential for some of these areas if they do that.

I mean, maybe one of these areas could he zones, with another area being a raid or so, but idk. I still think there should be Demonic Factions within different zones though.

But, it would be cool if the Demonic worlds went something like this:

??.0: Outland Revamp, us returning to Argus, Rancora raid.

??.1: Nathreza zone, Xoroth raid.

??.2: Krexan zone, Nihilam raid.

Yeah, that would fit better imo.

Even in Legion, the climax of one of the largest stories in Warcraft's history, this would be far too much demon and off world theming. Many of these, if not all of them, are only brief mentions. They don't have the ability to carry an expansion.

[Joshuaj]

Even in Legion, the climax of one of the largest stories in Warcraft's history, this would be far too much demon and off world theming. Many of these, if not all of them, are only brief mentions. They don't have the ability to carry an expansion.

That's why I kinda changed it and put a lot of them as raids, with others being patch zones (Makes more sense this way imo). Outland would be the main .0 expansion stuff though.

Seems fair tbh, especially with the expansion concept I'm proposing. Also, Legion was about the Legion's invasion on Azeroth in the beginning (Hence why the Broken Isles were a major part of the expansion). Even then, we were going to different Legion worlds, Argus was a 3 mini zone expac with invasion points across different points, and the raids were some of the most varied in the game.

[milkmustache]

Seems fair tbh, especially with the expansion concept I'm proposing. Also, Legion was about the Legion's invasion on Azeroth in the beginning (Hence why the Broken Isles were a major part of the expansion). Even then, we were going to different Legion worlds, Argus was a 3 mini zone expac with invasion points across different points, and the raids were some of the most varied in the game.

And yet Argus is most often referred to by fans and devs alike as a reason they try to avoid zone and theme fatigue. They've learned how to properly handle that so far in TWW and the void, and it will hopefully continue in Midnight, but an expansion of 6 different demon worlds that are inconsequential to the lore is overkill.

[Joshuaj]

And yet Argus is most often referred to by fans and devs alike as a reason they try to avoid zone and theme fatigue. They've learned how to properly handle that so far in TWW and the void, and it will hopefully continue in Midnight, but an expansion of 6 different demon worlds that are inconsequential to the lore is overkill.

I'd argue that 6 Legion/Demon Worlds is fine so long as they all have varied themes and aren't overly bloated. Also, I've seen fans like Argus for trying something different. Heck, it being 3 patch zones is because Blizzard didn't want to make a whole expansion about it.

Also, like I said, I kinda changed how I'd utilize them. Like, I would still use the other Demonic worlds, but I'd make 2 of them patch zones, and 3 of them raids.

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The raids would be:

Rancora
Xoroth
And Nihilam

The Patch Zones would be:
Nathreza
And Krexan.

Argus could just be reutilized for Campaign stuff, and Revamped Outland could be the main expansion setting.

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You could easily make an expansion like this work.

[Limayria]

Eh. I don't think its impossible there are other parts of Draenor that survived like Outland. I wouldn't mind seeing that.

Especialy if it ended up being a sort of mirror of the Arathi. An Orcish culture that not only survived but actually advanced using Apexis technology. Could be an interesting way to progress the orcs story in way that isn't endlessly rehashing "muh honor"

I would love for there to have still been an ogre civilization on our draenor that survived on the speculated gorian contenent and they managed to save their slice of the world mostly intact with magic and apexis tech so we'd be able to get like a "Wod 2" but focusing on ogres/arraoka and maybe even tie in ethreals since its our mu draenor

[Nibelheimy]

Looking at it realistically, TLT is going to be our last expansion about big cosmic themes for a while. They're signing off (this time for real) on the end of the wow story as we know it. Answering a lot of questions (supposedly and hopefully) before we're all too old to play the game ourselves. To quote their announcement anyway.

The saga/expansion/whatever after is not going to be anyway here's cosmic saga about interchangeable coloured goop number 2. Its going to be labelled as a new start. Whether that's likely to be a revamp or somewhere entirely new or a time skip, is anyone's guess.

From listening to recent announcements and videos they've released. They've made it clear they're happy to support wow going forward. A lot of people have claimed its going to die for many years, and at this point I fully believe that's not going to be the case. (At least until they fuck up drastically) and they're going big on pointing out how climatic the end of this saga will be. They're bringing all of the big guns out of the box this time.

They understand they have an aging player base, they are trying youtube shorts and tiktok advertising to bring in new blood. I have seen a lot of new players come in and done my best to help them get involved with the game, but sometimes the sheer mass of content they've missed out on is too much for them to catch up with. This gets ignored a lot. WoW is very, very unfriendly to new players, especially the younger generation that may have never touched an mmo before. With honesty, as much as I personally love its jankiness at times, it can be very off-putting if you're not used to it.

The new expansions is going to be at the very least the beginnings of a new big Era of Warcraft. They will want to bring as many new people into it as they are currently ending a lot of the big questions regarding the game we've had for twenty years. It will be branded as such.

I do think the class survey was real (maybe im stoopid) But I would not be surprised if a bunch of new classes being added in at the start of a new saga. We're going to get a squish soon anyway. I also am expecting a big revamp on character creation.

In my opinion, there's going to be a new large continent. Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdom size. Almost certainly Avaloren. Where we have a large level up path to reach endgame.

I really don't see just another expac being announced next. At the least a saga. Its not enough at this point to go here's Fel/Death/light/Order/life/Void saga. It has to be something to build onto something for those new players, and for us oldies as well, who do deserve well thought out, well built up, coherent storylines after 2 decades of subsciption and expansion fees.

Why does new player who is 18-25 and plays wow as their first mmo in 2029/2030 care about Void, or Fel or any other cosmic force?

I do personally see an expansion where we leave for Avaloren as a smallish expeditionary group with limited, possibly young hero characters. - The Duraks and Talia's of wow possibly - are rejected by the Emperor, imprisoned as a slaves. Break our way out, and slowly intergrate into the new world. My favourite little theory is the emperor is in control of the storms that protect Avaloren, lowers them to allow us and Faerin in, only to execute her for being of secret royal blood which could be a threat to the legitamacy of his rule, only to re-apply the storms leaving us stranded, with no way home. (Damn teleport lore ruining this but anyway)

Have 3 large continents for 3 expansions. Set the Arathi emperor as villain of the saga. Have us escape from the capital, steal ships, and land at the first continent. This first continent can be made freely, it can have entirely new cultures, civilization, races, everything. We have to build our way up to make allies/help the locals/bolster our ranks to take on the empire itself in the 3rd expac.

This would leave all of the zones we've been to over the years free of us for a saga or possibly more. Make that saga last in lore at least 10 years. Then we can have the revamp when we eventually return. We can see how leaders have aged, how alliances have broken or evolved how the lands have shaped. Who's taken over now?

I'm not suggesting Wow 2 by any means. I'm sure even blizzard know by now that's suicide. But I do expect a large portion of the branding of what's to come as a fresh start in terms of story. Jump in now for the new Era of Warcraft. Be there for the beginning of the next 20 years. Don't be 2/5/10/17 years late again.

(Disclaimer: I am not suggesting a wipe of any bodies characters/collections/achievements by any means - Never do this)

[Joshuaj]

An expac finishing off the Demon stuff for a bit would help in kickstarting the next 20 years ngl, would also fit with the whole "revamp" stuff Blizzard's been seemingly kicking off.

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Idk about 3 expansions taking place on different continents tho. I think continuing the revamps, finishing off stories from SL and DF, and doing 1 expac with a new continent would be perfect for the saga after this one.

[Nibelheimy]

An expac finishing off the Demon stuff for a bit would help in kickstarting the next 20 years ngl, would also fit with the whole "revamp" stuff Blizzard's been seemingly kicking off.

The demon stuff in lore is a nothing burger right now. Legion did not happen that long ago. Give Denathrius some time and breathing room to actually be built up as a credible villain again.

The true kick off is Sargeras being released to pull the sword back out. That's the end of this saga. Its the sword in the stone. The end of 20 years of Titan conspiracies and we finally find out the truth of the planet we've spent 20 years on as we know it. They have directly told us yeah this is the big one, and hey in fairness that is also standard marketing press and may not mean anything.

I truly don't see them jumping into hey go to 6 different planets for a demon lord saga rn please lets kick off the next 20 years.

You do need a realistic foundation for cosmic level story's. We're getting an ending for one of those now. Let them build the next one up for a bit. You cannot jump from endgame level plot to endgame level plot every 2 years. Its not plausible. There's no payoff. We're quickly running out of Varians to kill for emotional reaction here.

I may be completely wrong, we could keep burning through zones and characters at this pace. We could cycle through 6 possible demon worlds right now, they could for some inane reason take us to different cosmic palette realms right off the bat.

But those things only work when they are built up. We need to see some characters grow so we care when they're killed by our next big bads.

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Idk about 3 expansions taking place on different continents tho. I think continuing the revamps, finishing off stories from SL and DF, and doing 1 expac with a new continent would be perfect for the saga after this one.

3 continents based in Avaloren. I can also see revamps being part of the next saga if they choose that, but honestly the best way to do a revamp may be to give it a timeskip.

But they are ending this particular book so to speak. At least for a while. Nobody wants more DF and SL. You don't start a foundation of the next 2 decades by finishing stories that were generally hated by your community. You start something new.

[Dvalin]

t's far too early to tell, and the devs will presumably continue seeding new post-Worldsoul plothooks, locations and narrative-threads the coming two expansions.

[Joshuaj]

The demon stuff in lore is a nothing burger right now. Legion did not happen that long ago. Give Denathrius some time and breathing room to actually be built up as a credible villain again.

The true kick off is Sargeras being released to pull the sword back out. That's the end of this saga. Its the sword in the stone. The end of 20 years of Titan conspiracies and we finally find out the truth of the planet we've spent 20 years on as we know it.

I truly don't see them jumping into hey go to 6 different planets for a demon lord saga rn please lets kick off the next 20 years.

You do need a realistic foundation for cosmic level story's. We're getting an ending for one of those now. Let them build the next one up for a bit. You cannot jump from endgame level plot to endgame level plot every 2 years. Its not plausible. There's no payoff.

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3 continents based in Avaloren. I can also see revamps being part of the next saga if they choose that, but honestly the best way to do a revamp may be to give it a timeskip.

But they are ending this particular book so to speak. At least for a while. Nobody wants more DF and SL. You don't start a foundation of the next 2 decades by finishing stories that were generally hated by your community. You start something new.

The Demon stuff is very much not a nothing burger, and has been a rising issue for quite a while now. Sure, it's not nearly as bad as when the Burning Legion was still a thing, but let's not act like somethings not brewing here, cause it is.

And I doubt they're gonna use Sargeras for JUST THAT. Sure, Sargeras himself will likely be gone somewhere post-TLT, but that begs the question: What's up with Illidan and the Illidari? What's up with Outland and the Auchenai rebuilding iT? With Sargeras gone, what's going on with the many Demons within the Nether? Cause clearly some of them are still doing stuff.

Also, Legion would be 10 years old once Midnight releases, and it would be 12 years old when TLT releases. I think I'm pretty fair in thinking a new Demon based expac would be cool to see, especially if Outland gets a revamp, as Outland hasn't been properly touched on in about 20 years (over 20 years after TLT).

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Would the Demon stuff be a bit of a jump? Maybe. But it would also be a good send off for the Demons and Fel plot imo. Also, I would LOVE it if Blizzard made new players explore Outland in a more current manner. Would provide perfect TBC vibes.

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"You do need a realistic foundation for cosmic level story's. We're getting an ending for one of those now. Let them build the next one up for a bit. You cannot jump from endgame level plot to endgame level plot every 2 years. Its not plausible. There's no payoff."

We have TBC and Legion. Those would be the build up expansions lol. TBC introduced the Demons as a major threat to players, Legion showcased the full force of the Burning Legion to players, and whatever could come next could showcase a full-on Demonic War to players. Would be cool.