The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[milkmustache]

City revamps to make them look bigger and cooler,
starting with SW and Orgrimmar (namely to match revamped Silvermoon)? Yes please.

It'd be cool to use Neighborhoods to sort of expand cities into spilling outside of the city proper.

Scatterings of houses outside the walls of Stormwind, a larger clump in Goldshire. Same for Org and Razor Hill. Make those capital areas really, really, feel like capital, especially now that there's a legitimate reason for there to be a lot of houses there. They can change models and decoration upon phasing in, etc.

[Enteroctopus Magnificus]

City revamps to make them look bigger and cooler,
starting with SW and Orgrimmar (namely to match revamped Silvermoon)? Yes please.

Please restore Orgrimmar to its former glory. A city in a desert where life is good, with lush oases and houses made of terracotta and wood. Make it a vacation map, not an impenetrable fortress with metal spikes everywhere. Like this :

[Joshuaj]

Please restore Orgrimmar to its former glory. A city in a desert where life is good, with lush oases and houses made of terracotta and wood. Make it a vacation map, not an impenetrable fortress with metal spikes everywhere. Like this :

https://i.imgur.com/ZoO8it3.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/NwVBN8s.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/zlV0NGA.jpeg

So you want something like Dawntrail's city, but with more desert/canyon elements?

[Enteroctopus Magnificus]

So you want something like Dawntrail's city, but with more desert/canyon elements?

I don't know Dawntrail. All I want is for Orgrimmar to rival Stormwind in terms of architecture. A capital city in an arid desert should be full of life to make it a pleasant place to live. As orcs are basically a shamanic people, I find this kind of architecture much more coherent. Also, it's the capital of an entire faction, so it should be rich and luxurious, not look like a crappy war camp. They should have artists and a deep culture with unique designs, reducing them to wooden and metal huts with spikes is so reductive. I can see that no one wants to live in the Horde neighborhood, everyone's afraid of being stuck in this frankly bad design, including me.

[Viridiel]

It could be a version of the Apexis Empire from WoD, as I believe we don't know what happened to the main timeline's version. The WoD version exploded due to a war between the Ogres and Arrakoa, but I could also see them recontextualizing that to them being sucked through time/space.

I do think the devs may be sitting on the Apexis as a way to get back into Ogres, Arrakoa and perhaps the Lightbound all at once when the time is right. I can't see them going for Ogrezonia over that potential, but..

I had a semi-serious theory that the ogres would manage to stave off Yrel until that timeline collapses and they're thrown across time and space to end up on the other side of Azeroth in ancient times. The main point was that Yrel and her followers ended up inside the Beledar in Hallowfall, which I'm not really married to anymore after the reveal that the Beledar likely grew inside Azeroth's crust.

But I'd still really like to see something happen with the Gorian and Apexis empires. I believe the Apexis Empire actually imploded itself and there's no clear reason for that to be different in the AU since it happened before the timeline was created/invaded, but the Apexis are the ones who taught ogres magic in the first place so there could've been a sect that split off to the ogre continent and either managed to survive the destruction of Draenor or ended up getting sucked through time and space.

My preference would be for a group of skalaxi arakkoa to have invaded the ogre continent to get revenge on them after they killed the arakkoa who taught them magic. Eventually the ogres tried to harness a titan artifact to destroy them, and their clash ended up sending the entire continent through time and space to end up on the other side of Azeroth. I'd also like to go full reverse Dark Crystal and have some of the arakkoa and ogres fuse together into an urSkek-like race (or harpies??), but only some because we should have some ogres remain to explain some inconsistencies in their lore, and I don't think we've ever seen an uncorrupted skalax. The skalax combine Arcane and Shadow magic which could be an excellent parallel to the Arathi's Holy Flame being the combination of Arcane and Holy magic.

Alternatively, there should be some sort of remnant of Goria underneath Shattrath in Outland. The city was swallowed by the earth by orc shaman rather than being reduced completely to rubble. I would rather have the ogre continent explored, but that's always an option.

I feel like this sort of thing could be really unpopular because it's dealing with WoD lore and further messing with the established lore regarding interaction between Azeroth and Draenor, but I think it would be worse to leave the Draenor empires completely unexplored in-game.

[Cheezits]

I had a semi-serious theory that the ogres would manage to stave off Yrel until that timeline collapses and they're thrown across time and space to end up on the other side of Azeroth in ancient times. The main point was that Yrel and her followers ended up inside the Beledar in Hallowfall, which I'm not really married to anymore after the reveal that the Beledar likely grew inside Azeroth's crust.

I really like the theory that the Gorians warped, but I'm not sure how that would've led to the Lightbound going inside Beledar. Which is still one of my favorite theories so I'm waiting to see if all the Titan reports on the crystals are a red herring from the devs, ala Xe'ra's prophecy in Legion.

I do think the concept art of the stairs going into Beledar may have been a lowkey spoiler to it being a ship.

But I'd still really like to see something happen with the Gorian and Apexis empires. I believe the Apexis Empire actually imploded itself and there's no clear reason for that to be different in the AU since it happened before the timeline was created/invaded, but the Apexis are the ones who taught ogres magic in the first place so there could've been a sect that split off to the ogre continent and either managed to survive the destruction of Draenor or ended up getting sucked through time and space.

Absolutely, we need way more Gorian and Apexis/Arrakoa content in the game and the lore nerds on the dev team clearly had some ideas when they wrote Chronicles 2. I think Blizz actually has some longterm ideas cooking for Ogres- they rarely use them if ever these days (besides Exiles Reach, which still shows Gorian culture to an extent) and whenever they do it's for something interesting. A woman ogre in Traveler and then Mug'zee is clearly an intelligent two-head in Undermine.

Arrakoa I'm not sure on how much Blizzard plans to play with, but I think there may be something cooking for an eventual "flying island" expansion that the Dragon Isles DIDN'T end up being. They would fit the bill to a considerable extent and would be a 2x nostalgia thing for TBC and WODbabies (which is a crazy thing to think about) while having an interesting angle on the Light/Sun that matches up with how the Arathi's Flame is portrayed. Maybe even the same kind of thing?

I think we are far enough past WoD for people to appreciate the good it brought, its not a "black mark" on WoW the same was Shadowlands is, just a cannibalized expansion. And Ogres and Arrakoa are still, at the end of the day, ultimately TBC content.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

I don't know Dawntrail. All I want is for Orgrimmar to rival Stormwind in terms of architecture. A capital city in an arid desert should be full of life to make it a pleasant place to live. As orcs are basically a shamanic people, I find this kind of architecture much more coherent. Also, it's the capital of an entire faction, so it should be rich and luxurious, not look like a crappy war camp. They should have artists and a deep culture with unique designs, reducing them to wooden and metal huts with spikes is so reductive. I can see that no one wants to live in the Horde neighborhood, everyone's afraid of being stuck in this frankly bad design, including me.

I think expecting the Horde capital to be "rich and luxurious" is kind of contrary the values of the Horde. Even in a peaceful state, I don't think that would be the draw of an orcish city nor coherent with orcish values compared to, say, "rugged but homely". You're talking about deep culture with unique designs, but your apparent intention is to associate them with a style that's incongruous with their culture.

[Enteroctopus Magnificus]

I think expecting the Horde capital to be "rich and luxurious" is kind of contrary the values of the Horde. Even in a peaceful state, I don't think that would be the draw of an orcish city nor coherent with orcish values compared to, say, "rugged but homely". You're talking about deep culture with unique designs, but your apparent intention is to associate them with a style that's incongruous with their culture.

By rich I mean that it's supposed to be prosperous, and luxurious in the sense of comfortable living and nature. I don't think this is “contrary” to Horde values.

- - - Updated - - -

Have a look at the AI artworks. You'll understand.

[Viridiel]

I really like the theory that the Gorians warped, but I'm not sure how that would've led to the Lightbound going inside Beledar. Which is still one of my favorite theories so I'm waiting to see if all the Titan reports on the crystals are a red herring from the devs, ala Xe'ra's prophecy in Legion.

I do think the concept art of the stairs going into Beledar may have been a lowkey spoiler to it being a ship.

My idea was that the timeline becomes increasingly unstable as the Army of the Light crusades across the universe, eventually resulting in its collapse. Xe'ra protects the Army by encasing them in crystalline light and the Gorians protect themselves with a magical barrier, both being hurtled to Azeroth where the timeline was split off but ending up at different locations and times. It's completely baseless and unclear if it's even possible because they can't seem to decide how time travel and alternate timelines work, but it could work.

I actually hate time travel and alternate timelines, but unfortunately we might need more of it to resolve the mess that's been created. I don't mind Yrel in general so it would be best to resolve any timeline garbage and get her into this timeline once and for all.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Have a look at the AI artworks. You'll understand.

Yes, I looked at them and that's exactly what got me opposing it. It doesn't look like an orcish city at all, even an especially prosperous one. I'd at least expect something leaning more strongly into the adobe aesthetic. Maybe even a more "complete", less ramshackle version of classic Orgrimmar with better materials.

[Enteroctopus Magnificus]

Yes, I looked at them and that's exactly what got me opposing it. It doesn't look like an orcish city at all, even an especially prosperous one. I'd at least expect something leaning more strongly into the adobe aesthetic. Maybe even a more "complete", less ramshackle version of classic Orgrimmar with better materials.

Don't get hung up on the details - I didn't say I wanted a 1:1 copy either. This is AI, it's mainly to give an idea of the atmosphere.

What do you mean by “adobe aesthetics”?

Otherwise I'm all for a classic Orgrimmar, I thought the old design was 100x better.

[Eldryth]

By rich I mean that it's supposed to be prosperous, and luxurious in the sense of comfortable living and nature. I don't think this is “contrary” to Horde values.

It's a bit contrary to their original reasons for settling in Durotar- the Orcs chose a desolate land to punish themselves for everything they did under the Legion's influence.

That said, they did get some development recently in their heritage questline. They've finally working towards a better future, and working on healing Durotar to restore the rivers and plant life. So I'd be very glad to see Durotar and Orgrimmar go through some huge changes in a Kalimdor revamp expansion.

[Enteroctopus Magnificus]

It's a bit contrary to their original reasons for settling in Durotar- the Orcs chose a desolate land to punish themselves for everything they did under the Legion's influence.

Those days are long gone. The reason for the orcs who settled ≠ today's Horde values. Apples and oranges.

After everything that's happened in recent years, with all those consecutive world-ends and what's soon to come, I wouldn't be shocked if they wanted to have a slightly more... comfortable life.
That said, they did get some development recently in their heritage questline. They've finally working towards a better future, and working on healing Durotar to restore the rivers and plant life. So I'd be very glad to see Durotar and Orgrimmar go through some huge changes in a Kalimdor revamp expansion.

Exactly, I'd be so disappointed if the neighborhoods and potential revamp of Orgrimmar were still so dry and ugly.

- - - Updated - - -

And to be honest, I don't really give a shit. Just make sure Orgrimmar can compete with Stormwind, the difference is so unfair. Orgrimmar should be a nice place to live, period. I'm sick of spikes and all this metal, which makes no sense whatsoever, in a fucking region where it's hot as hell and half of all races go barefoot.

[Merryck]

I don't know Dawntrail. All I want is for Orgrimmar to rival Stormwind in terms of architecture. A capital city in an arid desert should be full of life to make it a pleasant place to live. As orcs are basically a shamanic people, I find this kind of architecture much more coherent. Also, it's the capital of an entire faction, so it should be rich and luxurious, not look like a crappy war camp. They should have artists and a deep culture with unique designs, reducing them to wooden and metal huts with spikes is so reductive. I can see that no one wants to live in the Horde neighborhood, everyone's afraid of being stuck in this frankly bad design, including me.

You expect too much from orcs.

[Enteroctopus Magnificus]

You expect too much from orcs.

I don't expect anything. I know that Blizzard will keep this ugly architecture that nobody likes except old-timers. The last thing we want to do is lose people and destabilize them, you understand... we might not recognize that they are orcs.

[Scyth]

I'm so sick of Orgrimmar and wish they would make other capital cities relevant instead. Hopefully Midnight helps with that, I want to spend more time in Silvermoon!

[Khaza-R]

I'm so sick of Orgrimmar and wish they would make other capital cities relevant instead. Hopefully Midnight helps with that, I want to spend more time in Silvermoon!

I wouldn't even say it or SW are relevant in TWW. I can't really think of a reason you need to go there at max level. So I am sure in MN there won't really be a reason to leave Silvermoon either.

[Ersula]

It's a bit contrary to their original reasons for settling in Durotar- the Orcs chose a desolate land to punish themselves for everything they did under the Legion's influence.

Orgrimmar was settled by Thrall, an orc who was born in a human internment camp, leading other orcs who were raised in internment camps for a home they would be free from humans. I don't know where this "desolate" self-flagellation narrative comes from, a savannah is a natural biome, it's not inhospitable at all.

[Eldryth]

Orgrimmar was settled by Thrall, an orc who was born in a human internment camp, leading other orcs who were raised in internment camps for a home they would be free from humans. I don't know where this "desolate" self-flagellation narrative comes from, a savannah is a natural biome, it's not inhospitable at all.

It came up a few times. The easiest example I could find was from Garrosh's short story leading into Cata:

“Our parents fought in the wars,” she said slowly. “They drank the blood of Mannoroth like your father did, and they were parties to its curse. They committed terrible acts in the name of the Horde. They attacked and murdered the innocent.”

Garrosh bristled. His father was no murderer. “They did what they believed necessary! Do you defile the name of your own blood?”

“I honor my parents' memory—make no mistake!” she cried. “But what they believed was wrong. What all the orcs believed was wrong. We must suffer for it. The warchief understands this, as do I. My sister does not.”

(Context being Gorgonna disagreeing with her sister, who criticized Thrall's decision to settle in a wasteland instead of somewhere they could thrive).

Apparently it was mentioned in Exploring Kalimdor too, which is fairly recent, so it's probably still canon even though it doesn't come up often.

[Hardwing]

It came up a few times. The easiest example I could find was from Garrosh's short story leading into Cata:



(Context being Gorgonna disagreeing with her sister, who criticized Thrall's decision to settle in a wasteland instead of somewhere they could thrive).

Apparently it was mentioned in Exploring Kalimdor too, which is fairly recent, so it's probably still canon even though it doesn't come up often.

Maybe not the most far sighted move of Thrall, but in the beginning it made more sense than just penance. Orcs like a challenge and this resembles the land most orcs still remember, at least it bears similarities to parts of Gorgrond, where Blackrocks were home to. Challenging, but not hostile to life. Darkspears and Tauren nearby. Lush lands north inhabited by Elves they might trade with ... the Cataclysm pretty much destroyed any hope of it being enough.

Call it headcanon, but I don't think Thrall wanted his people to suffer outright, Durotan just had more positive than negative aspects ... And to be frank Kalimdor doesn't have so many good places to settle which aren't already occupied.