The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Nymrohd]

I assumed it was more about the ongoing discussion of the nature of souls/existence and penitence. If we're just talking about ZM having wordy and intentionally vague in-game documents, that seems like a super arbitrary nitpick. The various void/old god riddles over the years are way more obnoxious than any of the ZM stuff.

They are also standard prophetic fare. The ZM documents were a very familiar style of writing, though quite mediocre compared to how it has been done in other RPGs.

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S4 is going to happen because it is cheap and quite literally better than nothing. It's two new mounts (awakened, M+), a few titles and some coding. It also makes all TWW dungeons mythic at the same time which is good and opens up those mounts to everyone.

There isn't a significant amount of resources being dedicated here and they need all the time they can for the next expansion. But I can see it being half the time of a regular season in the saga.

I think S4 is fine as long as it is not nearly as long as a normal season, as happened with DF. 12 weeks should be the maximum. Especially if we get all raids Awakened available for the pre-expansion period like we did with DF. Then I'd say 9 weeks are enough.

[Eldryth]

The roadmap suggests a winter/early spring release for Midnight if they don't make other changes to the current update pattern.

Remember, both Season 4s so far have started before their respective X.2.7 patches. So with 11.2.7 set for late fall, that would suggest that we'd already be in Season 4 in fall as well (assuming they aren't abandoning it, or making it shorter and later).

[Joshuaj]

I still think the Warrior Order Hall campaign should have been a max level campaign shared by everyone (since everyone interacted with Odyn and it would have naturally led to the Helya raid) and the Warriors should have gotten an Army of Legionfall Order instead where they are building something similar to Kalimdor's might, led by Danath, Saurfang and the Battlelord.

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I am certain the "pseudo-intellectual" part is entirely pointed at Zereth Mortis and pages of writing that felt like a poor man's "Lessons of Vivec" from the Elder Scrolls universe. Nothing of what you describe sounds pseudo intellectual in any shape or form.

Because the stuff at Zereth Mortis really wasn't meant to sound "pseudo-intellectual" whatsoever. It was meant to be a clever way of saying "Yeah, the First Ones are at the top of the food chain, and oh look, we might face an antagonistic First One in the far future of WoW".

I have no idea how people assumed the First Ones stuff was meant to be "for big brained folk only".

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They are also standard prophetic fare. The ZM documents were a very familiar style of writing, though quite mediocre compared to how it has been done in other RPGs.

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I think S4 is fine as long as it is not nearly as long as a normal season, as happened with DF. 12 weeks should be the maximum. Especially if we get all raids Awakened available for the pre-expansion period like we did with DF. Then I'd say 9 weeks are enough.

Tbf here, the stuff at Zereth Mortis wasn't playing with the possibilities of the universe, nor was it really playing at future events and whatnot in any void-like way.

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The roadmap suggests a winter/early spring release for Midnight if they don't make other changes to the current update pattern.

Remember, both Season 4s so far have started before their respective X.2.7 patches. So with 11.2.7 set for late fall, that would suggest that we'd already be in Season 4 in fall as well (assuming they aren't abandoning it, or making it shorter and later).

We don't know this. We just know that housing comes Winter of 2025, and that may change depending on how the road map goes.

If Midnight does release that early tho, I'll be surprised.

[Eldryth]

We don't know this. We just know that housing comes Winter of 2025, and that may change depending on how the road map goes.

If Midnight does release that early tho, I'll be surprised.

The early housing release is unprecedented and can't really be used to predict when Midnight releases. It could even be the prepatch for all we know. But we've gotten the same release pattern with X.2.7 patches for two expansions now. First Season 4, then X.2.7, then the expansion release almost exactly three months later.

So, given that 11.2.7 is coming in fall, that would mean an expansion release in late winter if they don't make significant changes to their usual patch order. I could maybe see them slowing it down a little bit- which is why I mentioned a possible early spring release- but I doubt they'd make 11.2.7 significantly longer than past equivalent patches when they want to speed up expansions.

[Khaza-R]

I am certain the "pseudo-intellectual" part is entirely pointed at Zereth Mortis and pages of writing that felt like a poor man's "Lessons of Vivec" from the Elder Scrolls universe. Nothing of what you describe sounds pseudo intellectual in any shape or form.

Someone gets it. Thank you.

Its like they tried to be Kirkbride while missing what made Kirkbride's lore so interesting.

[Ersula]

The roadmap suggests a winter/early spring release for Midnight if they don't make other changes to the current update pattern.

Remember, both Season 4s so far have started before their respective X.2.7 patches. So with 11.2.7 set for late fall, that would suggest that we'd already be in Season 4 in fall as well (assuming they aren't abandoning it, or making it shorter and later).

Yes, except Dragonflight season 4 didn't correspond to a patch. It came out after 10.2.6 and before 10.2.7. If we're looking at patch trends the most likely explanation is that TWW Season 4 starts January 2026 or may even correspond with the release of Housing.

[Eldryth]

Yes, except Dragonflight season 4 didn't correspond to a patch. It came out after 10.2.6 and before 10.2.7. If we're looking at patch trends the most likely explanation is that TWW Season 4 starts January 2026 or may even correspond with the release of Housing.

The most likely explanation looking at patch trends is for them to completely reverse the order they've been following ever since they introduced Fated/Awakened seasons?

It's not impossible, but given that there's absolutely nothing pointing to that, I certainly wouldn't call it the most likely. The safe guess is for them to follow the exact same pattern they've used in Shadowlands and Dragonflight- with Season 4 releasing 2 weeks to a month before 11.2.7, then Midnight releasing 3 months after 11.2.7.


11.2.7 is the key here. Under the current patch format, that seems to be the final epilogue patch for any given expansion, with the following expansion releasing three months later. I don't see them abandoning that trend and making 11.2.7 last drastically longer than 9.2.7 or 10.2.7, especially when they're promising to release expansions faster. And given that they have a Midnight feature right after it on the roadmap, I don't think they'd throw in an extra TWW minor patch to fill the gap either.

[Merryck]

Can we stop using seasons for release windows. There's a whole hemisphere where it's reversed. Damn.

[Joshuaj]

Can we stop using seasons for release windows. There's a whole hemisphere where it's reversed. Damn.

Damn. The Titans ordered our IRL reality too, huh?

[Telogrus]

What’s with all the S4 talk? I thought it was widely agreed they’ll be skipping S4 in exchange for having an 18 month expansion cycle, with each season being roughly 6 months (S1 went from September to February). For S4 to happen, it’d need to be literally only 2 months long, which is just too short, or S2 and S3 will need to be only 4 months long, which is too short for a new raid tier and doesn’t make much sense because we know S2 must be 20 weeks long at a minimum because of the raid renown

[Cheezits]

Again, all TWW dungeons will have to be mythic 0 at the end of the expansion for the mole and stonevault suit to be obtainable and several achievements. Could be season 3 but I doubt it.

[Telogrus]

Again, all TWW dungeons will have to be mythic 0 at the end of the expansion for the mole and stonevault suit to be obtainable and several achievements. Could be season 3 but I doubt it.

S4 is only really possible if Blizz either plans to make S2 and S3 only be ~5 months long each, with S4 being a measly 2 months long (which is too short even for a joke season), or if they plan for TWW to be more like 20 months long. I’m pretty sure that Blizz is pretty adamant about these 3 expansions being ~18 months long each because the math would work out that the expansion after TLT would conveniently come out right at WoW’s 25th anniversary. I’d be willing to bet money that Blizz wants the World Soul Saga to conclude right before WoW’s 25th anniversary so that they can launch an old world revamp expansion on the quarter-century anniversary

[Lady Atia]

What’s with all the S4 talk? I thought it was widely agreed they’ll be skipping S4 in exchange for having an 18 month expansion cycle, with each season being roughly 6 months (S1 went from September to February). For S4 to happen, it’d need to be literally only 2 months long, which is just too short, or S2 and S3 will need to be only 4 months long, which is too short for a new raid tier and doesn’t make much sense because we know S2 must be 20 weeks long at a minimum because of the raid renown

Yeah, no way they are doing fated again.

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Again, all TWW dungeons will have to be mythic 0 at the end of the expansion for the mole and stonevault suit to be obtainable and several achievements. Could be season 3 but I doubt it.

No they don't, they literally said you can get the mount only when it's available via the seasonal pool. Worst case they can still just give us M0 versions of the dungeons once the expansion is over (so you can still farm it during midnight) but honestly, I doubt it. This feels more like an evergreen addition with them planing on using the dungeons sooner rather than later again.

[alex wolf]

I had a thought earlier that the new broom mount animations might be used for an etheral hoverbike mount at some point

[Nymrohd]

S4 is only really possible if Blizz either plans to make S2 and S3 only be ~5 months long each, with S4 being a measly 2 months long (which is too short even for a joke season), or if they plan for TWW to be more like 20 months long. I’m pretty sure that Blizz is pretty adamant about these 3 expansions being ~18 months long each because the math would work out that the expansion after TLT would conveniently come out right at WoW’s 25th anniversary. I’d be willing to bet money that Blizz wants the World Soul Saga to conclude right before WoW’s 25th anniversary so that they can launch an old world revamp expansion on the quarter-century anniversary

Eh if you want an expansion after the Saga to launch and coincide with the 25th anniversary then each expansion needs to be 90-91 weeks so 21 months. If they are all just 18 months you are going to be launching the expansion after the Saga on February, nine months before the anniversary.
And 21 months is pretty much on track; 3 6 month (26 week) seasons with a small 9 week S4+3 weeks of prepatch (with all three raids awakened/fated/whatever they call them this time).

[Ersula]

S4 is only really possible if Blizz either plans to make S2 and S3 only be ~5 months long each, with S4 being a measly 2 months long (which is too short even for a joke season), or if they plan for TWW to be more like 20 months long. I’m pretty sure that Blizz is pretty adamant about these 3 expansions being ~18 months long each because the math would work out that the expansion after TLT would conveniently come out right at WoW’s 25th anniversary. I’d be willing to bet money that Blizz wants the World Soul Saga to conclude right before WoW’s 25th anniversary so that they can launch an old world revamp expansion on the quarter-century anniversary

What Metzen said:

We can't get into specifics, but yes it will be faster. We want to ensure that players aren't completing this saga in 2030. Teams have been restructured to be able to create this whole saga.

What people are misconstruing:

That means faster patch cadence.

When in actuality it just means the conclusion of The Last Titan's storyline will be out before the end of 2029. TWW came out slightly early so by all means the culmination of this comment has already been reached. If the Worldsoul saga is over by the end of 2029 it just means its a normal 2 year expansion cycle. (TWW mid-2024, Midnight mid 2026, TLT mid 2028 or even late considering Dragonflight wrapped up its storyline way early. Hell, BFA technically wrapped up its storyline before 8.3)

Yeah, no way they are doing fated again.

That's what people said about Dragonflight with its new fancy patch cycle & its end-of-expansion content drought still sucked asss.

[Joshuaj]

BFA's story namely wrapped up with 8.3. It wasn't just about the faction conflict.

[Enrif]

BFA's story namely wrapped up with 8.3. It wasn't just about the faction conflict.

The funny thing is, every time faction conflict flared up in WoW, it always connect with some old god.

Faction Problem in Wrath = Yogg'Saron awakens
Faction Problem in Cata = N'zoth controls Deathwing
Faction Problem in MoP = the Hearth of Y'sharjj
Faction Problem in BfA = N'Zoth

[Lady Atia]

The funny thing is, every time faction conflict flared up in WoW, it always connect with some old god.

Faction Problem in Wrath = Yogg'Saron awakens
Faction Problem in Cata = N'zoth controls Deathwing
Faction Problem in MoP = the Hearth of Y'sharjj
Faction Problem in BfA = N'Zoth

The funny thing is, they could have easily connected BfA's faction conflict to N'Zoth like they literally did with Cataclysm, but they didn't. Since they stated everything was on the Jailer / Sylvanas.

[Enteroctopus Magnificus]

Metzen said we would go to Ulduar for TLT. In the first concepts, Ulduar was supposed to be its own continent. What if, instead of a completely new Northrend, TLT took place in a completely new land?


What intrigues me is that he said that for Midnight we'd be going to Quel'Thalas, which is a region that already exists and can be developed further. However, he did specify Ulduar for TLT, not the Storm Peaks, which is where the raid is set.

It's possible that Ulduar will be its own new zone, possibly including the Storm Peaks and brand-new regions.