The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Joshuaj]

The funny thing is, every time faction conflict flared up in WoW, it always connect with some old god.

Faction Problem in Wrath = Yogg'Saron awakens
Faction Problem in Cata = N'zoth controls Deathwing
Faction Problem in MoP = the Hearth of Y'sharjj
Faction Problem in BfA = N'Zoth

Yeah, and that's why it's worthless.

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The funny thing is, they could have easily connected BfA's faction conflict to N'Zoth like they literally did with Cataclysm, but they didn't. Since they stated everything was on the Jailer / Sylvanas.

Don't think that's a bad thing tbh, as Yogg-Saron didn't start the faction conflict in Wrath, neither did Y'Shaarj for BFA.

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Metzen said we would go to Ulduar for TLT. In the first concepts, Ulduar was supposed to be its own continent. What if, instead of a completely new Northrend, TLT took place in a completely new land?


What intrigues me is that he said that for Midnight we'd be going to Quel'Thalas, which is a region that already exists and can be developed further. However, he did specify Ulduar for TLT, not the Storm Peaks, which is where the raid is set.

It's possible that Ulduar will be its own new zone, possibly including the Storm Peaks and brand-new regions.

Didn't they confirm they'd be revamping Northrend tho?

Also, there's a reason why concept art is concept art.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

The funny thing is, every time faction conflict flared up in WoW, it always connect with some old god.

Faction Problem in Wrath = Yogg'Saron awakens
Faction Problem in Cata = N'zoth controls Deathwing
Faction Problem in MoP = the Hearth of Y'sharjj
Faction Problem in BfA = N'Zoth

Ehhh... this is not necessarily true. At least, not all of it. The faction conflict that re-arose in WotLK was because of the Wrathgate situation and subsequent invasion of the Undercity. Varian even declared it at the end of the Alliance's participation after killing Varimathras. In many ways, every expansion's faction conflict after WotLK stems from the Wrathgate.

I don't think it's fair to say, or even right to say, faction conflict was directly the cause of Old God meddling. Old God meddling flared up already existing faction conflict if anything.

Garrosh dealing with the Heart of Y'Shaarj was only at the end of MoP-- the whole beginning of MoP has nothing to do with the heart and the sha only amplified already existing emotions of the Horde and Alliance once on Pandaria, for example.

[Enteroctopus Magnificus]

Didn't they confirm they'd be revamping Northrend tho?

I don't think so, but someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, there's a reason why concept art is concept art.

Older concept art is also a good source of inspiration for new content, you know, like Kul'Tiras, Dragon Isles, Undermine to name but a few.

[milkmustache]

I don't think so, but someone correct me if I'm wrong.

"In this chapter, you will again be returning to the Old World, but this time to the wintry lands of Northrend, and there at Ulduar you will bear witness to the return of the Titans to Azeroth-- and there, you will uncover a vast conspiracy, one that stretches throughout the history of the world, one that will challenge everything you think you know about the Titans, their intentions and the true nature of Azeroth itself."

The exact quote from Blizzcon.

Older concept art is also a good source of inspiration for new content, you know, like Kul'Tiras, Dragon Isles, Undermine to name but a few.

Good point, especially as I'm noticing the size of Quel'danas on that map. We could get a really proper zone of it in Midnight.

[Enteroctopus Magnificus]

I've just listened to The Last Titan reveal again, and he's made it clear that we're returning to the old world, Northrend. But that doesn't prevent Ulduar from being its own new zone, or a new region that would be an extension of Northrend, just as Quel'Thalas is in the old world too, in the Eastern Kingdoms.

What leads me to believe this is that Northrend is a large continent with 11 different zones. The current expansion structure comprises 4 base zones + 2 patch zones, so 6 zones on average. They could merge zones like Icecrown, Storm Peaks and Dragonblight, which wouldn't be shocking. But others are less obvious, such as the western and eastern zones. It all depends on how they handle that.

Or maybe they'll take the eastern part of Northrend and remake it, so we'll have our Grizzly Hills neighborhood.

The exact quote from Blizzcon.

Thank you.

there at Ulduar you will bear witness to the return of the Titans to Azeroth

This part really makes me think they're going to make Ulduar a zone in its own right and not just a raid.

Good point, especially as I'm noticing the size of Quel'danas on that map. We could get a really proper zone of it in Midnight.

Yep, Quel'Thalas will be greatly expanded and we'll be able to contemplate all the splendor of the blood elves. I can't wait.

[milkmustache]

I've just listened to The Last Titan reveal again, and he's made it clear that we're returning to the old world, Northrend. But that doesn't prevent Ulduar from being its own new zone, or a new region that would be an extension of Northrend, just as Quel'Thalas is in the old world too, in the Eastern Kingdoms.

What leads me to believe this is that Northrend is a large continent with 11 different zones. The current expansion structure comprises 4 base zones + 2 patch zones, so 6 zones on average. They could merge zones like Icecrown, Storm Peaks and Dragonblight, which wouldn't be shocking. But others are less obvious, such as the western and eastern zones. It all depends on how they handle that.

I think you're right about Ulduar being an entire zone in it's own, and I also think that the Storm Peaks will stay their own zone, especially if we see a storyline developed of some sort of Titan Forged and Titan conflict. I don't think that we'll exactly be aligned with the Titans for this expansion, so I don't know if Ulduar will be the main hub as some people suggest, but rather and max level zone a la Suramar. Maybe we get invited to Utgarde as a hub lol.

I also think that some zones will be merged, but aside from Crystalsong and maybe Zul'Drak/Howling Fjord, it feels really hard to imagine combining some zones in Northrend. Each of them are unique in their own ways and serve a lot of importance to what Northrend is.

I don't think that the zones need to have a single flavor and be so staunchly divided, but I frequently return to Waking Shores as an example for why sometimes more than 4 zones are needed. Waking Shores combining the respective red and black dragonflights areas always felt incredibly odd to me, because it didn't feel natural, and it seemed to undersell the importance of both areas. Had the Obsidian Citadel and Zaralek Caverns been structured a bit differently and combined into one above and below ground zone for the Black Dragonflight, I think it'd have been a lot more on the mark. So the idea of attaching something like Sholazar to the Borean Tundra or Dragonblight and Icecrown together feels entirely possible, but I think it may dull the impact of these respective zones.

[Enteroctopus Magnificus]

I think you're right about Ulduar being an entire zone in it's own, and I also think that the Storm Peaks will stay their own zone, especially if we see a storyline developed of some sort of Titan Forged and Titan conflict. I don't think that we'll exactly be aligned with the Titans for this expansion, so I don't know if Ulduar will be the main hub as some people suggest, but rather and max level zone a la Suramar. Maybe we get invited to Utgarde as a hub lol.

I don't know, given that Dalaran no longer exists that narrows down the hub candidates lol. Utgarde would be cool in my opinion, and a nice change from the “Titan” aesthetic we already have with Dornogal. But I wouldn't mind Ulduar.

I also think that some zones will be merged, but aside from Crystalsong and maybe Zul'Drak/Howling Fjord, it feels really hard to imagine combining some zones in Northrend. Each of them are unique in their own ways and serve a lot of importance to what Northrend is.

I don't think that the zones need to have a single flavor and be so staunchly divided, but I frequently return to Waking Shores as an example for why sometimes more than 4 zones are needed. Waking Shores combining the respective red and black dragonflights areas always felt incredibly odd to me, because it didn't feel natural, and it seemed to undersell the importance of both areas. Had the Obsidian Citadel and Zaralek Caverns been structured a bit differently and combined into one above and below ground zone for the Black Dragonflight, I think it'd have been a lot more on the mark. So the idea of attaching something like Sholazar to the Borean Tundra or Dragonblight and Icecrown together feels entirely possible, but I think it may dull the impact of these respective zones.

Yeah, Northrend is a bit weird. All the ice zones could merge into one zone, but the others are so different... will they do something like that?

[Nymrohd]

Sholazar is really the odd one out in Northrend.

So just remove it. Have something happen to it and make it an entry to Azjol'Nerub and the Northrend underground or something similar. Who knows, maybe Eonar hid something beneath Sholazar. Maybe the Rootlands are just below Un'goro.

[Enrif]

Ehhh... this is not necessarily true. At least, not all of it. The faction conflict that re-arose in WotLK was because of the Wrathgate situation and subsequent invasion of the Undercity. Varian even declared it at the end of the Alliance's participation after killing Varimathras. In many ways, every expansion's faction conflict after WotLK stems from the Wrathgate.

I don't think it's fair to say, or even right to say, faction conflict was directly the cause of Old God meddling. Old God meddling flared up already existing faction conflict if anything.

Garrosh dealing with the Heart of Y'Shaarj was only at the end of MoP-- the whole beginning of MoP has nothing to do with the heart and the sha only amplified already existing emotions of the Horde and Alliance once on Pandaria, for example.

i didn't said that the old god caused the conflict. But every expansion, that had significant faction tension, also had an old god. I would even add classic into that, as it started with some tenuous but subdued conflict and had C'thun

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I don't know, given that Dalaran no longer exists that narrows down the hub candidates lol. Utgarde would be cool in my opinion, and a nice change from the “Titan” aesthetic we already have with Dornogal. But I wouldn't mind Ulduar.



Yeah, Northrend is a bit weird. All the ice zones could merge into one zone, but the others are so different... will they do something like that?

https://i.imgur.com/x5ZyK09.png

similar, but i think something along those lines is more likely
Biggest change to your: I think Stormpeaks and Zul'drak might be working together as one zone, if we assume the machinery below stormpeaks gets activated and cuases massive avalanches down into zul'drak. And Thus Stormpeaks will be the "ulduar" zone

[Cheezits]

My money is on Dragonblight being caved in by Iridikron and/or Odyn to reveal Azjol Nerub and the path of the titans.

No way will they focus on Dragonblight after Dragonflight.

Halls of Valor will reconnect with Ulduar to make one big Ulduar zone/raid in Storm Peaks.

Also something crazy will happen in Borean Tundra because it's kind of a mess and also boring.

[Sondrelk]

I don't know, given that Dalaran no longer exists that narrows down the hub candidates lol. Utgarde would be cool in my opinion, and a nice change from the “Titan” aesthetic we already have with Dornogal. But I wouldn't mind Ulduar.

While it might be a long shot. I do have faith in the idea of the Argent Crusade citadel that was supposed to be built in Icecrown.
Would obviously require some light retcons given we didn't see it during the SL pre-patch, as well as it not being mentioned since. But it would be neat regardless.
Could easily just expand the Argent Crusade hub that was used during ICC levelling as well. It's central, and its basically the size of an expansion hub anyways.

[Al Gorefiend]

My money is on Dragonblight being caved in by Iridikron and/or Odyn to reveal Azjol Nerub and the path of the titans.

No way will they focus on Dragonblight after Dragonflight.

Halls of Valor will reconnect with Ulduar to make one big Ulduar zone/raid in Storm Peaks.

Also something crazy will happen in Borean Tundra because it's kind of a mess and also boring.

I don't think we'll have nerubians as a central antagonist twice in the Saga

[Khaza-R]

My money is on Dragonblight being caved in by Iridikron and/or Odyn to reveal Azjol Nerub and the path of the titans.

No way will they focus on Dragonblight after Dragonflight.

Halls of Valor will reconnect with Ulduar to make one big Ulduar zone/raid in Storm Peaks.

Also something crazy will happen in Borean Tundra because it's kind of a mess and also boring.

I think Icecrown is the mostly like candidate to get destroyed. Just because ICC is rather massive and I doubt it being relevent yet again after SLs

Agree with you on Dragonblight

I think Crystalsong will expand and become a larger area

The only two zones I think they'll keep mostly the same are Howling Fjord and Grizzly Hills.

I don't think we'll have nerubians as a central antagonist twice in the Saga

I don't think they would be central antagonists. But I definitely expect a small story where the Kaheti Nerubians help their breathren retake Azjol'Nerub

[Nymrohd]

I don't think we'll have nerubians as a central antagonist twice in the Saga

The Nerubians in Azjol'Nerub are already friendly with us. They could be a faction that supports us as we try to get to Iridikron's lair

[Kiivar86]

At the bare minimum, I expect an instance for Harrowsdeep, Iridikron's ancient lair, but I honestly expect a full zone of it. It'd be underneath the Storm Peaks pretty much. The tech for Zaralek (and the TWW zones) would work well for it. It is described as a pretty massive network of tunnels and chambers. I could even see it connecting into Ulduar, too.

[Cheezits]

Oh, maybe Odyn and the bad keepers will knock down ICC and plug the "Jailer hole" with Ulduar to directly manipulate the worldsoul?

[Enteroctopus Magnificus]

Sholazar is really the odd one out in Northrend.

So just remove it.

Wait, what? You want to delete my favorite zone? It's out of the question!
Have you thought about the Wolvars who live there? The poor things...

similar, but i think something along those lines is more likely
Biggest change to your: I think Stormpeaks and Zul'drak might be working together as one zone, if we assume the machinery below stormpeaks gets activated and cuases massive avalanches down into zul'drak. And Thus Stormpeaks will be the "ulduar" zone

Oh yes, it works pretty well that way too. But I think Ulduar really deserves its zone.

I guess we'll know when we see how they approach the Quel'Thalas areas in Midnight.

My money is on Dragonblight being caved in by Iridikron and/or Odyn to reveal Azjol Nerub and the path of the titans.

Didn't Iridikron have an underground base there? Some sort of gallery riddled with traps?

No way will they focus on Dragonblight after Dragonflight.

Why? It would be interesting to see the development of the dragons in this region. Given their connection with the Titans and the fact that this is their former home, they'll probably be relevant.

Halls of Valor will reconnect with Ulduar to make one big Ulduar zone/raid in Storm Peaks.

While I think it's a cool idea, I don't think Odyn would do that. But who knows.

Also something crazy will happen in Borean Tundra because it's kind of a mess and also boring.

Especially boring lmao. Maybe goblins and gnomes will have a stronger presence. Some new cities maybe ?

While it might be a long shot. I do have faith in the idea of the Argent Crusade citadel that was supposed to be built in Icecrown.
Would obviously require some light retcons given we didn't see it during the SL pre-patch, as well as it not being mentioned since. But it would be neat regardless.
Could easily just expand the Argent Crusade hub that was used during ICC levelling as well. It's central, and its basically the size of an expansion hub anyways.

I hadn't thought of that, but it's a good idea. Would it be justifiable? Given that we've put an end to the great Scourge threat in SL...

[Sondrelk]

I hadn't thought of that, but it's a good idea. Would it be justifiable? Given that we've put an end to the great Scourge threat in SL...

It makes sense on the assumptions that it is the largest friendly non-faction hub in Northrend.
There are obviously other options. But most would either be former hostile locations like the Scarlet Crusader areas. ICC. Or Vrykul areas. Or Faction hubs like Valiance Keep.

The only other strong possibility would be Wyrmrest temple, which I somehow doubt given it is basically a Dragon hub. And while Iridikron is likely to be a big presence. He isn't so big it justifies what would in many ways be Valdrakken again.

[Nymrohd]

Btw it seems almost certain Gallywix has a secret phase for Mythic given the journal. Maybe we'll find out something new there?

[Khaza-R]

It makes sense on the assumptions that it is the largest friendly non-faction hub in Northrend.
There are obviously other options. But most would either be former hostile locations like the Scarlet Crusader areas. ICC. Or Vrykul areas. Or Faction hubs like Valiance Keep.

The only other strong possibility would be Wyrmrest temple, which I somehow doubt given it is basically a Dragon hub. And while Iridikron is likely to be a big presence. He isn't so big it justifies what would in many ways be Valdrakken again.

If Vrykul are the AR of TLT then I would imagine Utgarde will be the new hub.