The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Sondrelk]

Oh, I am under no delusion that Wrathion WILL NOT become an Aspect. He was groomed for far too long and is put against a nobody. And all his wrongdoings were "forgiven" with that face punch from Anduin.

You say that. But his arc could very well be that he should accept that he might not be the best choice for Aspect. He is similar to Neltharion in many ways, but maybe not in the ones that mattered.

[Tiradon]

Man this renown system and unlocking story with it, it's really hard for me because mostly I log for M+ and raids. With x-mas and new years I basically didn't do any WQs besides the ones needed for the Accord weekly.

Hope they change this in the future.

[Sondrelk]

Man this renown system and unlocking story with it, it's really hard for me because mostly I log for M+ and raids. With x-mas and new years I basically didn't do any WQs besides the ones needed for the Accord weekly.

Hope they change this in the future.

You do get Dragonscale Expedition rep from running the raid though, so you do get that storyline at least, and the Valdrakken rep is also easy to gain passively. Really you just lose out on Maruuk and Iskaara rep, and those don't really have any important questlines associated with them.

Really it's down to what you specifically want from the Renown. You might be a bit behind on knowledge, and will miss out on a couple of recipes for professions, but nothing major.

The 376 and 389 armor is nice to have, for sure. But it's also quickly replaced if you run dungeons and raids regularly.
I just don't think missing out on Renown is as big a deal as it might seem. It's still just Reputations, just with a new coat of paint. You miss out on some stuff, but you didnt usually need to farm any rep to be competetive in instanced content before. It might just seem like you have to now that it's called Renown, which was important in Shadowlands.

[Hitei]

Him acting independently with a shady character like Kairoz does reflect on his leadership though

As opposed to spending decades acting with Deathwing?

So his harebrained MoP plan failed, becasue Varian should have subjugated Horde and all would be good? And he is a good leader, becasue he can manage a tiny organization consisting a bunch of humanoids?

We're not arguing morals. His "harebrained" MoP plan was to erase the divide between the Alliance and Horde by bringing the conflict to a head and getting one side to actually win the conflict so that instead of chipping away at each other for years, weakening the entire planet's defenses, there would just be one major faction able to build up its strength and repel external threats. This plan worked. The Alliance was in a position where it could have very easily just taken control of the world and been in a much more secure state, and instead of taking the final step Varian randomly decided to just not hold anyone besides Garrosh responsible, leave the Horde alone and crashed the entire thing. It was not a bad plan. In fact realistically it would have worked out much better long-term than the alternative did.

It's not a "tiny organization" and the fact that they are humanoids (again he had Farahd, but whatever) means nothing. Dragons aren't some mystical lovecraftian alien race with minds incomprehensible to regular humanoids, my guy. They are just another long-lived race that have a bestial form. Leading them is no different from leading any other race, they aren't special. Wrathion's "tiny organization" is like four or five times the size of the group Sabellian leads, and unlike Sabellian's group who have accomplished... staying alive? Coming back to Azeroth? Wrathion's group actually does shit. It gets run, it's organized and pursues goals beyond "being alive". It has been used to do the job that the Black Dragons are supposed to be doing.

And he didn't fuck up big time when he helped free Garrosh, causing a double Azeroth invasion in WoD and Legion? So basically, his fuck-ups are not his fuck-ups, it's the dumb people aorund him that didn't get his 5D chess game?

I didn't say he didn't fuck up. I pointed out that this fuck-up wasn't about leadership, it was about ethic and his actions as an individual actor. And if you're going to attribute Legion to Wrathion as a domino effect you then also have to attribute the legion's destruction to that same chain, because bringing back Gul'dan also saw Illidan get freed, who was the only reason it went from defense of Azeroth into an invasion of the Legions prime world.

You are fanboying for him way too much. Titans save Black Dragonflight from the leader who uses THIS insane "means to an end" plans.

A hilarious sentiment when you are practically quoting Sabellian.

I don't even particularly like Wrathion. He is whatever. I just think it's absolutely retarded people are pretending he hasn't shown more than enough capacity to lead, and even more retarded that people are advocating for a second option who has displayed LESS leadership aptitude, is LESS accomplished at getting shit done and is significantly MORE ethically compromised than Wrathion on the basis of "lol, Wrathion doesn't have enough leadership aptitude or accomplishments and uses ethically questionable means".

It's like if you added playable void ethereals to the game and then argued that Alleria shouldn't be in charge of them because she's "made pacts with questionable forces", "almost destroyed the sunwell" and "hasn't had much leadership experience with specifically non-physical beings"... and then in the next sentence declared that Xal'atath should be put in charge.

[Tiradon]

You do get Dragonscale Expedition rep from running the raid though, so you do get that storyline at least, and the Valdrakken rep is also easy to gain passively. Really you just lose out on Maruuk and Iskaara rep, and those don't really have any important questlines associated with them.

Really it's down to what you specifically want from the Renown. You might be a bit behind on knowledge, and will miss out on a couple of recipes for professions, but nothing major.

The 376 and 389 armor is nice to have, for sure. But it's also quickly replaced if you run dungeons and raids regularly.
I just don't think missing out on Renown is as big a deal as it might seem. It's still just Reputations, just with a new coat of paint. You miss out on some stuff, but you didnt usually need to farm any rep to be competetive in instanced content before. It might just seem like you have to now that it's called Renown, which was important in Shadowlands.

The only annoying for me is really the story chapters. The gear and recipes don't matter for me otherwise I would prioritise this instead of getting ready to do m+ and raids

[Nymrohd]

The only annoying for me is really the story chapters. The gear and recipes don't matter for me otherwise I would prioritise this instead of getting ready to do m+ and raids

Story is in itself a reward for playing a specific part of the game

[Nyel]

Story is in itself a reward for playing a specific part of the game

Anything related to the main story should definitely not be locked behind a reputation grind. Never. Then do it like in Shadowlands and serve us bits and pieces every week, at least that way I get to see it after I already left the game for a break.

[Nymrohd]

Anything related to the main story should definitely not be locked behind a reputation grind. Never. Then do it like in Shadowlands and serve us bits and pieces every week, at least that way I get to see it after I already left the game for a break.

You play the game, you see the story. There isn't any controversy there.

[Nyel]

You play the game, you see the story. There isn't any controversy there.

"You breath, you continue your life" - that's how useful your argument is. There's a reason why players hate gated things. Gating the main story behind a reputation grind was maybe one of their worst decision in years.

[Nymrohd]

"You breath, you continue your life" - that's how useful your argument is. There's a reason why players hate gated things. Gating the main story behind a reputation grind was maybe their worst decision in years.

It's not an argument. I don't think you understand what arguing is. I am just stating a fact. We have had progressive story unlocks since vanilla. It's the way the game has ALWAYS worked. Unless your opinion is that you'd rather things be timegated instead. We've seen how popular that opinion is (and again it would be an opinion, not an argument).

[Nyel]

It's not an argument. I don't think you understand what arguing is. I am just stating a fact. We have had progressive story unlocks since vanilla. It's the way the game has ALWAYS worked. Unless your opinion is that you'd rather things be timegated instead. We've seen how popular that opinion is (and again it would be an opinion, not an argument).

You're stating a fact like I did, it just has no meaning in this discussion, that's the problem. There really is no difference between time gating or reputation gating stuff, it's the same just colored differently. After Dragonflight we will see how popular the reputation grind is, I'm pretty sure it will be as unpopular as the previous time gating (yes, that's an opinion for 2 years and then it'll become a fact). What's more casual friendly? Gating something behind a tedious, repetitive task you have to do each and every day or unlocking things over time? I guess you know the answer.

[Nymrohd]

You're stating a fact like I did, it just has no meaning in this discussion, that's the problem. There really is no difference between time gating or reputation gating stuff, it's the same just colored differently. After Dragonflight we will see how popular the reputation grind is, I'm pretty sure it will be as unpopular as the previous time gating (yes, that's an opinion for 2 years and then it'll become a fact). What's more casual friendly? Gating something behind a tedious, repetitive task you have to do each and every day or unlocking things over time? I guess you know the answer.

No, timegating and a grind are in no way the same. With timegating the player has no agency when it comes to the story. I played a decent amount of time and I had seen all the major quests in the first two weeks and I enjoyed that, I was rewarded with more story for being active. This was a standard way of delivering content for most of the game, from the Netherwing to the Argent Tournament to everything in MoP. Timegating started with WoD and the general opinion about it is less than stellar.

And when the rest of the game is not casual friendly, why must the story be? Why do people who run raids or dungeons get to have their exclusivity based on effort but people who run world content cannot get to see the story earlier?

[Lady Atia]

No, timegating and a grind are in no way the same. With timegating the player has no agency when it comes to the story. I played a decent amount of time and I had seen all the major quests in the first two weeks and I enjoyed that, I was rewarded with more story for being active. This was a standard way of delivering content for most of the game, from the Netherwing to the Argent Tournament to everything in MoP. Timegating started with WoD and the general opinion about it is less than stellar.

And when the rest of the game is not casual friendly, why must the story be? Why do people who run raids or dungeons get to have their exclusivity based on effort but people who run world content cannot get to see the story earlier?

What the hell? Are you really trying to gatekeep story behind world "content"?

[Revamp Man]

So the 10.0.7 vendor build hit
I'm assuming 3 weeks until.0.5 gets released as that will be past the fifth spark unlock

Can't wait to see post raid story in .0.7 honestly because I want to see if there's still a different kind of style to SL or if they went backwards in quality.

Give me old god dragons and twilight culties

[Nymrohd]

Have we seen what the 10.0.5 content in Primalist Future is? I fully expect it to just be a world quest or something but I don't think I've heard about it yet

[Dracullus]

Have we seen what the 10.0.5 content in Primalist Future is? I fully expect it to just be a world quest or something but I don't think I've heard about it yet

I think it will be just some quick post raid questline that won't be tested on PTR at all.

[Nymrohd]

I think it will be just some quick post raid questline that won't be tested on PTR at all.

Probably true.

[DatToffer]

What the hell? Are you really trying to gatekeep story behind world "content"?

I hate it when I play Pokemon and they gatekeep the Elite Four with Champion fights.

[Raetary]

I don't mind the rep requirement, but i do mind how far into the rep the story quests are set.

By the time a regular player reaches it, they probably already have had the story spoiled for them by literally any website unless they are full on grinding reputations like a maniac.

And when the rest of the game is not casual friendly, why must the story be?

It's casual friendly that someone needs to grind like a maniac for 2 weeks to stay on top of story chapters?

[Nymrohd]

It's casual friendly that someone needs to grind like a maniac for 2 weeks to stay on top of story chapters?

No? I said the opposite very much the opposite. Raiding is not casual friendly; the final boss is only available to casuals more than a month later for casuals. Why should access to the story be immediate if access to the raid is not?