The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Cheezits]

Oh wow, I COMPLETELY forgot what the Rift of Aln skybox looked like.

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Rift_of_Aln

Spoilers: it's filled with roots. Per old lore:

from which it is thought by the druids that the Dream itself originated

Gazing into it, Malfurion Stormrage saw it as a bottomless chasm which radiated with primeval energies that even he dared not investigate. Indeed, the very rift itself seemed half-dreamed

So it could be half Dream half Lifelands hence the funkiness, and red thorns/roots because Nightmare staining. Druids don't exactly know what it is, which ties into the idea that it could've been created by the Titans (pulling out Elun'ahir) and there's a conspiracy covering it up, hence why Elun'ahir is only a "legend".

Note that we also just got a Dream hearthstone expansion not about Amirdrassil, despite the look of the tree, but about SHALAdrassil and Xavius. Who may not actually be dead at all per Sean Copeland.

[LemonDemonGirl]

With new HS expansion I wish they bring Ursoc back at last.
That was too dirty in SL. Let his soul fly to Maw, where Sylvanas find it and bring to Arbiter to be judged again. Maybe with memory loss, maybe fragmented. And his new purpose would be Maldraxxus, where he regenerate. Or - Drusts find him in their sub-realm and trying to corrupt him.

Just reincarnate him as a smaller bear. You know, like what happened with Torga. That, or he comes back after anima is pumped back into his pod.

[Worldshaper]

The Rift of Aln has nothing to do with the Well of Eternity or the Maelstrom. It was suspected, but then in Legion we are informed that it's actually just the source of the Nightmare & is located in the Dream's counterpart of the Moonglade. The Maelstrom just goes to the Stonecore.

And people say I jump at conclusions prematurely.

Not saying you're wrong necessarily, because I do not remember all the various bits of dialogue and quest text from that era. But feel free to post evidence for your claim, because it's a pretty major one.

"Just the source of the Nightmare" isn't new, IIRC. It was always the source of the Nightmare, and the way through which N'Zoth (originally Yogg-Saron) gained access to the Emerald Dream.

The Maelstrom going to the Stonecore, isn't that just artificial? You know, the Elemental Planes were set up as prisons for the Elemental Lords by the Titans. I'm not 100% sure right now, but I seem to recall that it was mentioned back then that the way it led into the Stonecore wasn't actually its physical endpoint, it just acted as a portal of sorts. Below the physical Maelstrom there is likely an ocean, followed by a seabed, ruins of Nazjatar and Zin-Azshari, and then maybe the roots of Elun'ahir with the Rift of Aln below them?

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Oh wow, I COMPLETELY forgot what the Rift of Aln skybox looked like.

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Rift_of_Aln

Spoilers: it's filled with roots. Per old lore:

from which it is thought by the druids that the Dream itself originated

Gazing into it, Malfurion Stormrage saw it as a bottomless chasm which radiated with primeval energies that even he dared not investigate. Indeed, the very rift itself seemed half-dreamed

So it could be half Dream half Lifelands hence the funkiness, and red thorns/roots because Nightmare staining. Druids don't exactly know what it is, which ties into the idea that it could've been created by the Titans (pulling out Elun'ahir) and there's a conspiracy covering it up, hence why Elun'ahir is only a "legend".

Note that we also just got a Dream hearthstone expansion not about Amirdrassil, despite the look of the tree, but about SHALAdrassil and Xavius. Who may not actually be dead at all per Sean Copeland.

Good catch, I had forgotten this also. Further evidence to suggest that it might have something to do with the roots.

[Ersula]

And people say I jump at conclusions prematurely.

I know you skim wowpedia before you post & the Rift of Aln page doesn't mention the well of eternity at all. The rift can't be both under the well of eternity & under the moonglade. Those are different locations. Any connection between the two is entirely your headcanon.

[Worldshaper]

I know you skim wowpedia before you post & the Rift of Aln page doesn't mention the well of eternity at all. The rift can't be both under the well of eternity & under the moonglade. Those are different locations. Any connection between the two is entirely your headcanon.

No what I'm asking you to show is that is exists underneath Moonglade. I know we had a quest there, but I can't recall it was mentioned that it sits right underneath it.

There are lots of clues to suggest it is near the Maelstrom, though.

[Cheezits]

The fact the Rift of Aln is under the (Dream's) MOONglade could point towards it being Elune tied in the first place. So, Elun'ahir. Hell, Elun'ahir's crater could even BE the Moonglade which would be funny if the Druids never went deep enough to find it. (Also note that while spooky looking, the Rift of Aln is in fact glowing elune-white)

Probably less likely Elun'ahir is under the Maelstrom/is the WOE then that.

The Rootlands could be the physical manifestation of the Rift of Aln which the Rift itself is the funky cross-dimensional Lifelands/Azeroth bridge, which is how Elune and the Old Gods can use it to mess with Azeroth. If they want the Dream tied in they can say that the "Lifelands chunk" the Dream was made from is from the Rift itself.

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No what I'm asking you to show is that is exists underneath Moonglade. I know we had a quest there, but I can't recall it was mentioned that it sits right underneath it.

There are lots of clues to suggest it is near the Maelstrom, though.

I believe the idea is because the Rift of Aln is underneath the Moonglade in the Emerald Nightmare raid.

Eonar wept bitter tears that rained down upon the resulting crater.

But as she peered down upon the sundered earth, the titan realized a truth she did not share with the Highfather. Though he had destroyed the tree, its winding roots still held firm beneath the soil, hidden from Aman'Thul's gaze.

As the forces of the titans waged war against the Black Empire, Eonar bid her keeper, Freya, to watch over the crater and nurture the life that blossomed there.

Below ground, the roots fed upon the tears of Eonar and grew strong.

The hole is referred to a CRATER twice, and that Freya is aware of it. However it is mentioned that "tears" are involved that feed the roots, so there may be magic liquid involved. Honestly this was probably deliberately ambiguous but there is enough here pointing to both the Moonglade's Lake Elune'ara and Un'goro Crater, though it could even be Sholozar.

Has Freya/Eonar ever been tied to the Moonglade before?

[Joshuaj]

The fact the Rift of Aln is under the (Dream's) MOONglade could point towards it being Elune tied in the first place. So, Elun'ahir. Hell, Elun'ahir's crater could even BE the Moonglade which would be funny if the Druids never went deep enough to find it. (Also note that while spooky looking, the Rift of Aln is in fact glowing elune-white)

Probably less likely Elun'ahir is under the Maelstrom/is the WOE then that.

The Rootlands could be the physical manifestation of the Rift of Aln which the Rift itself is the funky cross-dimensional Lifelands/Azeroth bridge, which is how Elune and the Old Gods can use it to mess with Azeroth. If they want the Dream tied in they can say that the "Lifelands chunk" the Dream was made from is from the Rift itself.

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I believe the idea is because the Rift of Aln is underneath the Moonglade in the Emerald Nightmare raid.

I've had a theory going on for the longest time that either the Life Realm or just Elune's Realm is called "The Dream", and the Rift of Aln is basically the origin point for Azeroth's "Dream" reflection.

Meaning, IF the Life Realm is called the Dream (Idk about it being called the Emerald Dream tho, as I believe that's just a part of the Life Realm), then it's entirely possible Elune's Realm is called "The Emerald Dream" or something like that, and it houses Dream reflections of different worlds, primarily the Worldsouls. This would be why Azeroth's Dream reflection exists beyond Titan influence, and it could also explain much of the 10.2 book, as well as the Emerald Dreams connection with Elune and Ardenweald.

Also, I say the Life Realm should be called the Dream since Blizzard doesn't really give the bigger cosmic realms new names beyond what we know. For example: The Death Realm in true was still called "The Shadowlands", and it's possible the Depths of the Disorder Realm are still called "The Twisting Nether", or just "The Nether", assuming Blizzard uses a 1 word convention for the Cosmic Domains.

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The fact the Rift of Aln is under the (Dream's) MOONglade could point towards it being Elune tied in the first place. So, Elun'ahir. Hell, Elun'ahir's crater could even BE the Moonglade which would be funny if the Druids never went deep enough to find it. (Also note that while spooky looking, the Rift of Aln is in fact glowing elune-white)

Probably less likely Elun'ahir is under the Maelstrom/is the WOE then that.

The Rootlands could be the physical manifestation of the Rift of Aln which the Rift itself is the funky cross-dimensional Lifelands/Azeroth bridge, which is how Elune and the Old Gods can use it to mess with Azeroth. If they want the Dream tied in they can say that the "Lifelands chunk" the Dream was made from is from the Rift itself.

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I believe the idea is because the Rift of Aln is underneath the Moonglade in the Emerald Nightmare raid.



The hole is referred to a CRATER twice, and that Freya is aware of it. However it is mentioned that "tears" are involved that feed the roots, so there may be magic liquid involved. Honestly this was probably deliberately ambiguous but there is enough here pointing to both the Moonglade's Lake Elune'ara and Un'goro Crater, though it could even be Sholozar.

Has Freya/Eonar ever been tied to the Moonglade before?

The only evidence we have of this is the fact we enter that swirl within the Moonglade Nightmare reflection. Idk if the rift is actually underneath Moonglade however. The swirl could just be a portal. Of course, I may be wrong.

Also, is the "Aln" part of the Rift of Aln name just talking about the location? Or is Aln like an actual entity and that's it's rift? Idfk.

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Also, funny how Cenarius grants us access to "The True Heart of the Dream" in Legion, when:

A. Blizzard definitely didn't plan a Life Realm beyond this at the time.

And B. Wouldn't it make more sense for the heart of the Emerald Dream to be where the Eye of Ysera's located? Though, that place could also be where Eonar started experimenting on the Realm. I mean, it has a Titan console at the center of it, afterall.

[Cheezits]

Also, funny how Cenarius grants us access to "The True Heart of the Dream" in Legion, when:

A. Blizzard definitely didn't plan a Life Realm beyond this at the time.

And B. Wouldn't it make more sense for the heart of the Emerald Dream to be where the Eye of Ysera's located? Though, that place could also be where Eonar started experimenting on the Realm. I mean, it has a Titan console at the center of it, afterall.

Everything in 10.2 points to the newest lore on the Dream being "it's a Titan manipulated thing specific to Azeroth" versus the actual be-all-end-all realm of Life. The lorebook implies that the "anima" that makes up the dream is from some other place, with said place hinted at being a sentient Shadowlands type place through the other lorebook, and the energy from that place could've been sourced through the Rift of Aln. Either the Legion-era "True Heart" was a lie or its some Dream version of the Rift.

I do think the fact that Elune has so much sway in the Dream may point towards it being Elun'ahir-tied, as it's our first official canon thing tying Eonar to Elune on Azeroth.

It would be a nice tidy bow if Elun'ahir's roots are the magic batteries powering the Dream (and Nightmare) and that's why it's relevant to the Void Lords- as Amanthul warned and the Nightmare showed, it is a backdoor to corrupting Azeroth's soul.

[Darkarath]

I just watched Taliesin and Evitel interview with Ion and Hamilton for 11.1. Quite a few important quotes IMO:

- We will learn more about Xal'athat, which I guess that we kind of knew. But it clearly seems that she won't be there for just a cameo, which is good news.

- Also, we are going to learn in 11.1 where we going next. Probably the Rootlands, but I cannot wait to do the quests to find out !

- The big quote IMO, although it could be nothing, is that Ion says that in Midnight we will visit places that we have not seen for 20 years. Quel'thalas does not have 20 years. Is he implying that we are visiting other parts of the Eastern Kingdoms in 12.0? I certainly hope so.

[Joshuaj]

Everything in 10.2 points to the newest lore on the Dream being "it's a Titan manipulated thing specific to Azeroth" versus the actual be-all-end-all realm of Life. The lorebook implies that the "anima" that makes up the dream is from some other place, with said place hinted at being a sentient Shadowlands type place through the other lorebook, and the energy from that place could've been sourced through the Rift of Aln. Either the Legion-era "True Heart" was a lie or its some Dream version of the Rift.

I do think the fact that Elune has so much sway in the Dream may point towards it being Elun'ahir-tied, as it's our first official canon thing tying Eonar to Elune on Azeroth.

The 10.2 book implies that the Emerald Dream wasn't actually created by the Titans, and that there is likely more to it than what we once thought. Reflections of places unlike Azeroth are described as well.

Also, in a book, wasn't it stated that Elun'ahir was made from a branch of G'hanir- The Mother Tree? Assuming this is true, as the book itself was stated to not be 100% trustworthy I think, wouldn't the Dream have to exist prior to the Tree being made, as G'hanir existed within the Emerald Dream?

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I just watched Taliesin and Evitel interview with Ion and Hamilton for 11.1. Quite a few important quotes IMO:

- We will learn more about Xal'athat, which I guess that we kind of knew. But it clearly seems that she won't be there for just a cameo, which is good news.

- Also, we are going to learn in 11.1 where we going next. Probably the Rootlands, but I cannot wait to do the quests to find out !

- The big quote IMO, although it could be nothing, is that Ion says that in Midnight we will visit places that we have not seen for 20 years. Quel'thalas does not have 20 years. Is he implying that we are visiting other parts of the Eastern Kingdoms in 12.0? I certainly hope so.

...Wait, revamp to Northern EK could be possible??? Maybe? Possibly? I'm probably overhyping???

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And if not Northern EK, at least the Plaguelands please.

Though, ik Cata kinda revamped them, which would destroy the whole "20 years" argument in of itself, but still.

[Cheezits]

The 10.2 book implies that the Emerald Dream wasn't actually created by the Titans, and that there is likely more to it than what we once thought. Reflections of places unlike Azeroth are described as well. Also, in a book, wasn't it stated that Elun'ahir was made from a branch of G'hanir- The Mother Tree? Assuming this is true, as the book itself was stated to not be 100% trustworthy I think, wouldn't the Dream have to exist prior to the Tree being made, as G'hanir existed within the Emerald Dream?

It's a "tomato tomatoe" thing where the name Emerald Dream seems to both refer to the general Life/Reality veil as well as the "Azeroth-only" section pinched off and ordered by the Titans. I'm thinking there's a real name for the Life stuff beyond the Azeroth Emerald Dream but it's going to be something cleaner than the Gardens of Life (SL hint) or Lifelands.

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- The big quote IMO, although it could be nothing, is that Ion says that in Midnight we will visit places that we have not seen for 20 years. Quel'thalas does not have 20 years. Is he implying that we are visiting other parts of the Eastern Kingdoms in 12.0? I certainly hope so.

Even if this just means Stratholme I will be so happy. Isn't that the only one that fits the bill, as the other EK areas were visited/updated in Cata? (Oops, can't be as it was updated in Cata after all)

Yep, if he was being super literal (as he probably was, lol lawyer Ion) it would have to be places from Vanilla that weren't explored in Cata. TBC was 2007 and Midnight should be 2026. Or he just got the numbers wrong.

[Sondrelk]

I just watched Taliesin and Evitel interview with Ion and Hamilton for 11.1. Quite a few important quotes IMO:

- We will learn more about Xal'athat, which I guess that we kind of knew. But it clearly seems that she won't be there for just a cameo, which is good news.

- Also, we are going to learn in 11.1 where we going next. Probably the Rootlands, but I cannot wait to do the quests to find out !

- The big quote IMO, although it could be nothing, is that Ion says that in Midnight we will visit places that we have not seen for 20 years. Quel'thalas does not have 20 years. Is he implying that we are visiting other parts of the Eastern Kingdoms in 12.0? I certainly hope so.

Yeah, that was my understanding. Though admittedly, the revamped EK zones are more recent than the TBC ones.
Maybe I am reading too much into it as well, but I would have thought that if we were just in Quel'thalas, that he would say that we would see more of old zones, rather than how zones have changed. Which is far more relevant for the EK zones, especially the former Scourge/Forsaken zones. As well as Arathi Highlands being more important, not only from the Arathi humans, but also the short story, and less importantly Plunderstorm taking place in a slightly different variant of the revamped version.

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Even if this just means Stratholme I will be so happy. Isn't that the only one that fits the bill, as the other EK areas were visited/updated in Cata? (Oops, can't be as it was updated in Cata after all)

Yep, if he was being super literal (as he probably was, lol lawyer Ion) it would have to be places from Vanilla that weren't explored in Cata. TBC was 2007 and Midnight should be 2026. Or he just got the numbers wrong.

Definitely possible. Though I probably wouldnt take it literally. I imagine he meant it more as a reference to the recent 20th Anniversary of WoW celebration.

[Joshuaj]

It's a "tomato tomatoe" thing where the name Emerald Dream seems to both refer to the general Life/Reality veil as well as the "Azeroth-only" section pinched off and ordered by the Titans. I'm thinking there's a real name for the Life stuff beyond the Azeroth Emerald Dream but it's going to be something cleaner than the Gardens of Life (SL hint) or Lifelands.

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Even if this just means Stratholme I will be so happy. Isn't that the only one that fits the bill, as the other EK areas were visited/updated in Cata? (Oops, can't be as it was updated in Cata after all)

Yep, if he was being super literal (as he probably was, lol lawyer Ion) it would have to be places from Vanilla that weren't explored in Cata. TBC was 2007 and Midnight should be 2026. Or he just got the numbers wrong.

I guess, I'm just saying it could be called "The Dream", as Blizzard didn't give the afterlife a new name.

[Cheezits]

Between that Ion comment and the new neighborhood zones it's definitely looking like it's not JUST HD big Quelthalas, Stratholme is the smoking gun here due to sheer proximity and theme potential (scourge, forsaken, lodaeron)

[Sondrelk]

Between that Ion comment and the new neighborhood zones it's definitely looking like it's not JUST HD big Quelthalas, Stratholme is the smoking gun here due to sheer proximity and theme potential (scourge, forsaken, lodaeron)

Like I have always said. The big question of focusing solely on Quel'thalas has always been that most of the present themes are also strongly present in the other zones in Northern EK. Often much more prominently.
Stratholme obviously, which then begs the question of why not show the rest of the Plaguelands given it is just as relevant. The Amani, which have Jintha'alor in the Hinterlands. Sylvanas and the Forsaken, which is also right outside Quel'thalas. The return of the Arathi being a natural fit with the Scarlet Crusade, which then links into all the other stuff. etc.

We shall see how it goes. But it never made sense to me to only have Quel'thalas be revamped. And this interview definitely supports the idea that they want you to consider this a partial world revamp, rather than just a Quel'thalas one.

[Darkarath]

If they remake the Plaguelands, I do not see how they would stop there. The Hinterlands could be perfect to expand the Amani thread, and if the Arathi do not visit their ancient lands in Midnight... When they will do it? The Arathi going back there could go in a number of ways, but giving what happens in the short story that Blizzard released, I think that it is clear where we are headed.

Also, I would love if they made the Plague justice. Shadowlands fucked everything about the Plague that we knew. But a new Plague of Decay could be a perfect way to re-introduce this ancient enemy, especially knowing that we are going to Northrend afterwards. And the Harbringer has Galakrond's Decay... I think that Iridikron is probably playing with it in Northrend while we are in Khaz Algar.

[Joshuaj]

If they remake the Plaguelands, I do not see how they would stop there. The Hinterlands could be perfect to expand the Amani thread, and if the Arathi do not visit their ancient lands in Midnight... When they will do it? The Arathi going back there could go in a number of ways, but giving what happens in the short story that Blizzard released, I think that it is clear where we are headed.

Also, I would love if they made the Plague justice. Shadowlands fucked everything about the Plague that we knew. But a new Plague of Decay could be a perfect way to re-introduce this ancient enemy, especially knowing that we are going to Northrend afterwards. And the Harbringer has Galakrond's Decay... I think that Iridikron is probably playing with it in Northrend while we are in Khaz Algar.

Shadowlands didn't fuck up the Plague. The plague still works the same and whatnot. Sheesh, y'all overplay the expansions effects on things like that.

But yeah, it would be cool to see the Plaguelands revamped. Maybe it'll serve as a base of operations for the Light?

Imagine the Ghostlands being renamed to "The Dark/Voidlands" or something like that, and the Plaguelands are renamed to "The Holylands".

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Ooo the Holylands...

My crusader nature is already going crazy!

[Cheezits]

Also, I would love if they made the Plague justice. Shadowlands fucked everything about the Plague that we knew. But a new Plague of Decay could be a perfect way to re-introduce this ancient enemy, especially knowing that we are going to Northrend afterwards. And the Harbringer has Galakrond's Decay... I think that Iridikron is probably playing with it in Northrend while we are in Khaz Algar.

You're forgetting a very decay-oriented character that escaped Dragonflight for parts unknown.

Also, Denathrius and the Nathrezim. Who classically have both farted Decay and also tied to the Plaguelands.

[Darkarath]

You're forgetting a very decay-oriented character that escaped Dragonflight for parts unknown.

Oh I have not forgotten at all.

We all saw what he could do in DF. Do you think that Blizzard would let him live if they were not planning to do something with Decay and Undead? I just see Iridikron more fitting to be the leader of this new plague. I can see him raising Raszageth as a Decay abomination. I can see him even trying to corrupt a Titan with Decay when they come in TLT. Hell, Fyrakk might even come to help him as the new Firelord, although I think that they will leave Fyrakk out of this trilogy.

Also, anyone doubt that Galakrond will be present in TLT? I think that it might be what Iridikron throws at the Titans the moment they set foot on Azeroth.

[Cheezits]

We all saw what he could do in DF. Do you think that Blizzard would let him live if they were not planning to do something with Decay and Undead? I just see Iridikron more fitting to be the leader of this new plague. I can see him raising Raszageth as a Decay abomination. I can see him even trying to corrupt a Titan with Decay when they come in TLT. Hell, Fyrakk might even come to help him as the new Firelord, although I think that they will leave Fyrakk out of this trilogy.

I don't think that would fit with Iridkron's MO as he wants to save Azeroth from the titans, not plague it. Unless the idea is the plague would be a reset button.

I can definitely see Denathrius planning on killing everything and everyone on Azeroth for a necromantic army + anima + revenge.

Decatriarch's involvement in this is a bit iffy but Gnoll + Decay would check out with the EK in general. I was thinking she(?) would be a fun new villain for a revamped racial starting zone, be it Nelf or Human. Maybe they will just get thrown at a general area by one of the big baddies be it Iridikron, Denny or Xal.

...it would be very funny if they whip up some big Gnoll storyline featuring Mon-ark, Decatriarch and everyone's favorite Hogger.