The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[loras]

What you may be thinking of is a bit of inconsistency that Wowpedia mentions occurred in Dawn of the Aspects. However, the same mistake is made in that article that End Time is the same timeline in which Murozond emerges rather than simply his hiding place; I have never read the book, so I can't know whether the same editor misunderstood a line about the End Time in the same novel or something to that effect.



Fair enough. I could see it falling flat without effective clarification, and we're dealing with an unfortunate juxtaposition between writers that have a tendency towards miscommunication and failing to fully analyze the implications of whatever they write (see: Shadowlands) with a highly-concrete and literal-minded audience that had a few members that didn't realize soap opera Malfurion was an illusion generated by Xavius back in Legion.

That was serious!?

[Skildar]

soap opera Malfurion was an illusion generated by Xavius back in Legion

Except that it's Tyrande that is insufferable during the time in which you chase illusions of Malfurion. The real one is a pain to watch for others reasons, amongst which he taunts repetitively Xavius shadow when trapped and at its mercy. It's only thanks to the players that save him that he doesn't die there while he does nothing to fight of Xavius.

You can't seriously defend the narration of this legion sequence. Xavius was badly handled and the relationship between Tyrande and Malfurion at this moment was a painpoint to the narration.

[huth]

Do not know about that. The "we are all well and happy" change that the new narrative team is trying to pull off has to end at some point.

It's a misrepresentation of what they said anyway. Infinite Flight is done for now, not permanently resolved. I.e. it won't show up in DF again in any major capacity.

It would actually be a paradox if he became Murozond that way, as it would have meant he was already Murozond at points in time when he acted as Nozdormu still. Thus any other outcome was impossible from the start, Deios had to fail. Guy probably had a god complex anyway, with a name like that.

Remember, a paradox is something that cannot ever actually happen. If a line of logic leads to a paradox, it means the logic is wrong.

[Alanar]

Chromie would be rather insufferable to me, but she's the obvious choice given that Blizzard has evidently forgotten about every other bronze dragon in the lore. She is a model of everything wrong with the tone right now, and she will undoubtedly export that wherever she treads.

The bronze will lose some interest if Chromie will be their leader. She is everything people DONT want, for obvious reasons and on top of that they forget some bronze dragons who were around.

Murozond not happening is exactly what we wanted, why people suddenly que about that not happening?

I hope he stays the bronze leader, he is atleast the coolest looking, another thing that would suck trading it for a gnome with an annoying voice.

So far so good I would say.

[huth]

Except that it's Tyrande that is insufferable during the time in which you chase illusions of Malfurion. The real one is a pain to watch for others reasons, amongst which he taunts repetitively Xavius shadow when trapped and at its mercy. It's only thanks to the players that save him that he doesn't die there while he does nothing to fight of Xavius.

You can't seriously defend the narration of this legion sequence. Xavius was badly handled and the relationship between Tyrande and Malfurion at this moment was a painpoint to the narration.

I don't know. I think the point of that was that Malfurion was never in any danger of serious harm. Note how all Xavius ever does to those taunts is complain and whine; he really does not have the ability to do anything more to Malfurion than stop him from leaving. So all Malfurion has to do is wait until we can be bothered to saunter over and punch Xavius' shadow-clone face.
The only reason Malfurion does not resolve the whole matter himself after that is because he cannot enter the place Xavius real form is. Xavius was never a major threat to him and Tyrande was way overreacting.

[Alanar]

Oh, I love your theory that Fyrakk's going to be Deathwing 2.0. He already burning people alive when he is in the zone, like DW!! Maybe we can use what ever spears Igira is making to destroy the Incarnates?

Deathwing 2.0 sounds like a bad dream.

[huth]

The bronze will lose some interest if Chromie will be their leader. She is everything people DONT want, for obvious reasons and on top of that they forget some bronze dragons who were around.

You don't want. Though i'll concede that she isn't really suited to a leadership role. And they should have called her evil self Monochromie or at least Mochrie.

[Darkarath]

Crazy silly theory, what if Murozond happens, but Murozond was never Nozdormu to start with. He is simply another character that took that name, as it was already establish, as a representation of what the Infinites think that Nozdormu should have been.

Chromie is willing to sacrifice everything to save Nozdormu. Maybe she becomes Murozond herself to save him.

[Alanar]

You don't want. Though i'll concede that she isn't really suited to a leadership role. And they should have called her evil self Monochromie or at least Mochrie.

The voices here were pretty common she is not the right choice. It became obvious fairly quickly people dont want her. So we is fine, but what ever you feel like.
In fact I havent seen a single poster say; wow that a good choice or cool I love her.

I dont even care about morchie.

- - - Updated - - -

Crazy silly theory, what if Murozond happens, but Murozond was never Nozdormu to start with. He is simply another character that took that name, as it was already establish, as a representation of what the Infinites think that Nozdormu should have been.

Chromie is willing to sacrifice everything to save Nozdormu. Maybe she becomes Murozond herself to save him.

What if just nothing happends?

[huth]

Crazy silly theory, what if Murozond happens, but Murozond was never Nozdormu to start with. He is simply another character that took that name, as it was already establish, as a representation of what the Infinites think that Nozdormu should have been.

Chromie is willing to sacrifice everything to save Nozdormu. Maybe she becomes Murozond herself to save him.

Nozdormu already confirmed he is him back in End Time.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Murozond not happening is exactly what we wanted, why people suddenly que about that not happening?

I can't speak for others, but I would prefer for Murozond to happen because it would allow a villain victory without strings attached, ensure the regular appearance of the Infinite Dragonflight going forward, and create a major paradigm shift that wouldn't upend the entire setting for the worse like the ending of BfA did while still having tangible and obvious effects.

[Fahrad Wagner]

I can't speak for others, but I would prefer for Murozond to happen because it would allow a villain victory without strings attached, ensure the regular appearance of the Infinite Dragonflight going forward, and create a major paradigm shift that wouldn't upend the entire setting for the worse like the ending of BfA did while still having tangible and obvious effects.

Same, I want m'boy to go mad

[AOL Instant Messenger]

It would actually be a paradox if he became Murozond that way, as it would have meant he was already Murozond at points in time when he acted as Nozdormu still. Thus any other outcome was impossible from the start, Deios had to fail. Guy probably had a god complex anyway, with a name like that.

Remember, a paradox is something that cannot ever actually happen. If a line of logic leads to a paradox, it means the logic is wrong.

But we're not dealing with sensible chronology here. What we're talking about is a parachronological reality where time can be retroactively altered.

I like to think that if Murozond came into being, both the reality in which Nozdormu was always Murozond and the one we previously had would have occurred simultaneously, even the parts which are mutually-contradictory. Chronological and logical incompatibility are not strictly contradictory, especially when you aren't dealing with axioms or conceptual logic, but mutable and variable events in a concrete flow of time.

[Ersula]

It would actually be a paradox if he became Murozond that way, as it would have meant he was already Murozond at points in time when he acted as Nozdormu still. Thus any other outcome was impossible from the start, Deios had to fail. Guy probably had a god complex anyway, with a name like that.

You understand Bronze Dragons can travel in time, yes? He could only be Murozond for just a short weekend & still travel to all those places we see in the Caverns of Time.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Crazy silly theory, what if Murozond happens, but Murozond was never Nozdormu to start with. He is simply another character that took that name, as it was already establish, as a representation of what the Infinites think that Nozdormu should have been.

Chromie is willing to sacrifice everything to save Nozdormu. Maybe she becomes Murozond herself to save him.

I already thought of that but I don't think Blizz is willing to do that.

[Skildar]

I don't know. I think the point of that was that Malfurion was never in any danger of serious harm. Note how all Xavius ever does to those taunts is complain and whine; he really does not have the ability to do anything more to Malfurion than stop him from leaving. So all Malfurion has to do is wait until we can be bothered to saunter over and punch Xavius' shadow-clone face.
The only reason Malfurion does not resolve the whole matter himself after that is because he cannot enter the place Xavius real form is. Xavius was never a major threat to him and Tyrande was way overreacting.

That basically boils down to poor narration. The guy that managed to corrupt the tear of Elune and then use it to corrupt Ysera is harmless to Malfurion even when getting him into his own Realm? This whole sequence makes no sense and is just there to justify a dungeon in which they didn't know what to do narratively except put saving Malfurion as a stake.

The whole point I was trying to convey is just that narration has not been good in wow for a long time and putting the blame on players when it's clearly the game that fails is not the way to go to give people a bit of hope for better narratives.

P.S.: I'm always making a real distinction between lore and narration because for wow case it is very important. The stories of Warcraft are good and especially the stories of the places. Shadowlands have great stories, but the narration is abysmal and in wow it often is the case. Dragonflight might be the exception where there is very little lore to explore.

[Alanar]

I can't speak for others, but I would prefer for Murozond to happen because it would allow a villain victory without strings attached, ensure the regular appearance of the Infinite Dragonflight going forward, and create a major paradigm shift that wouldn't upend the entire setting for the worse like the ending of BfA did while still having tangible and obvious effects.

Idk after looking at it again, I just dont see the point tho. We have already seen what will happen. Maybe he will, maybe he wont, it doesnt really matter in the end.

I hope we see Nozdormu moving forward with the Bronze and not Chromie.

[huth]

You understand Bronze Dragons can travel in time, yes? He could only be Murozond for just a short weekend & still travel to all those places we see in the Caverns of Time.

No, he can't, because we kill him.

That basically boils down to poor narration. The guy that managed to corrupt the tear of Elune and then use it to corrupt Ysera is harmless to Malfurion even when getting him into his own Realm? This whole sequence makes no sense and is just there to justify a dungeon in which they didn't know what to do narratively except put saving Malfurion as a stake.

I never said it isn't stupid. But it's in line with the usual saturday morning cartoon shenanigans in WoW.

[Skildar]

But it's in line with the usual saturday morning cartoon shenanigans in WoW.

True words

[Cheezits]

I can see Chromie being Murozond, one thing that makes me think that may be likely is the said that that Morchie may appear again.

She may just be a stooge, but what if she's the ONLY Chromie we can work with?

Maybe it's intentional on the PTR but during the dungeon gameplay you can't really see what Deios is doing "to ensure Murozond". He kind of just shows up at Galakrond's corpse and you fight him.