The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Reive]

well, i'm even more curious about 11.2 now lol

[Cheezits]

Are those other Lorewalking quests not available yet? We've seen the bits about Xal and Locuswalker, already. And how do we know the Red Dawn also comprises remnants from the Scarlet Crusade and the Syndicate?

That happens in the Arathi quests which are currently available.

[Dvalin]

That happens in the Arathi quests which are currently available.

Nice! Is someone livestreaming or posting lore-spoilers somewhere?

[Eldryth]

At this point the Worldcore and Rootlands make more sense as a patch or even final zone for TLT.

That seems more and more likely at this point.

Come to think of it, the Worldcore is almost exactly what people initially theorized that TLT's logo was showing, even.



From the moment we saw that, there were people pointing out that it looked just like the Titan prisons that the Incarnates were kept in, and speculation that it could be a prison for Azeroth. But I had forgotten about that, and never really saw it come up again, by the time we learned of a Worldcore containing Azeroth against her will, "guarding" her from everything but Titan influence. I had pictured more of a grand Titan complex, but maybe they've been showing the Worldcore for TLT right from the start.

[Kiivar86]

Oh wow, there's a secret 4th questline about Umbric's exile. Untestable.

Wow, this is some real setup for Midnight it seems.

[Cheezits]

Okay, so spoilers for the end of the Arathi questline-

The Red Dawn leader- Marran, is allowed to live- but stripped of her name and title and banished from the Highlands. She leaves with another Stromic lieutenant who switched sides to her. Interestingly, the assassin character from Heartlands does not appear so maybe all three of them are being saved for later.

Also Faerin has new clickable voicelines about being on the surface, so she'll be sticking around.

[Khaza-R]

Does it though? World ore maybe as a final raid, but even then the Rootlands connection is tenous at best.
And besides, it's less about the Rootlands making sense somewhere else, and more about it being a massive left turn if we abandoned the underground element and Black Blood storyline to go into outer space.

Metzen said he didn't just railroad over the narrative team when he came in. He asked them what kind of stories they wanted to explore and then collaborated on turning it into the saga. So yeah, I think its natural when they were discussing some of it that the conclusion was going to be "oh wait, that's a better fit for this story. Lets table it until them".

It makes for an abrupt turn like you said. But hopefully a better payoff then a one-and-done expansion story.

[milkmustache]

Also Faerin has new clickable voicelines about being on the surface, so she'll be sticking around.

Ya know, this makes me think... do the Arathi of Hallowfall plan on staying in Hallowfall forever? I understand their devotion to Beledar, but we've sort of given them a way out and an ability to perhaps find their way home, discover their roots, etc.

[Sondrelk]

Metzen said he didn't just railroad over the narrative team when he came in. He asked them what kind of stories they wanted to explore and then collaborated on turning it into the saga. So yeah, I think its natural when they were discussing some of it that the conclusion was going to be "oh wait, that's a better fit for this story. Lets table it until them".

It makes for an abrupt turn like you said. But hopefully a better payoff then a one-and-done expansion story.

I am honestly not convinced it is. What does make sense is shelving the Worldcore finale until TLT, and making 12.0 into Void themed Legion, rather than what it looked like might have been next, which was backside of Azeroth with the Arathi.

K'aresh makes perfect sense as the big payoff in Midnight after being properly teased a full expansion in advance. Not unceremoniously dumped at us half a year after we had a five second teaser about it. Only to then move on to a significantly less spectacular Void themed expansion, right as everyone is good and tired of Void stuff.

I am all for the devs having changed stuff. But going to K'aresh in TWW isn't a minor change. It's a complete tonal shift.

[Joshuaj]

I honestly feel like they're still building K'aresh up for Midnight. Remember this is a trilogy so they're fine taking their time with the different story arcs.

I wonder if Xal'atath's model in that cutscene was a placeholder? If it's the real deal, it seems kinda lazy.

Also, why are the Old Gods collaborating - weren't they at war?

It sounds like they could develop that little N'Zoth thing at the end of the cutscene into something interesting involving the Undersea and the Beledar. But we've all guessed as much so many times now and still nothing has ever come from it. So I dunno.

It is interesting that N'Zoth knew so much about the future, though. Even about the future which lay beyond his own demise.

Knowing Presence whispers: I... know you. What you were. What you will yet be.
Knowing Presence whispers: Deeper, deeper its roots will reach. Welcoming our embrace.
Knowing Presence whispers: With many eyes, they will see again. They will drink, and be uplifted.
Knowing Presence whispers: You will follow him to the deep places. The dark waters will flow in his wake.
Knowing Presence whispers: Her dreams sing beneath the surface. Our dreams. Our song.

If he knew all that stuff back during the Black Empire when we visited with Chromie (during Dragonflight), wouldn't that suggest that he has seen it in a vision?

And if that's true, wouldn't that give him good reason to start planning ahead for his own eventual demise (and return)?

That's the Void for ya. Makes ya see quite a bit.

[Cheezits]

K'aresh makes perfect sense as the big payoff in Midnight after being properly teased a full expansion in advance. Not unceremoniously dumped at us half a year after we had a five second teaser about it.

Why is Karesh better in Midnight than now? It is not Argus. It is not a Void stronghold. We don't know what the Argus equivalent of Void is. We don't even know what void creatures are, yet, save for like four models.

We don't have an Argus-equivalent for Void because Void has gotten fuck-all lore, but it definitely exists. It could even be the Umbral Plane mentioned in Dragonflight.

[Sondrelk]

Ya know, this makes me think... do the Arathi of Hallowfall plan on staying in Hallowfall forever? I understand their devotion to Beledar, but we've sort of given them a way out and an ability to perhaps find their way home, discover their roots, etc.

If I were to guess. Then the TWW epilogue will explain that they are coming with us to EK to fight in Renilash. After which they will help us get to the Arathi Empire at some future point, and become the basis of the rebellion against the most likely insane emperor.

[Joshuaj]

Okay, so spoilers for the end of the Arathi questline-

The Red Dawn leader- Marran, is allowed to live- but stripped of her name and title and banished from the Highlands. She leaves with another Stromic lieutenant who switched sides to her. Interestingly, the assassin character from Heartlands does not appear so maybe all three of them are being saved for later.

Also Faerin has new clickable voicelines about being on the surface, so she'll be sticking around.

Definitely being saved for Avaloren, if I'm being honest.

- - - Updated - - -

That, or they'll appear in Midnight, idk.

[Sondrelk]

Why is Karesh better in Midnight than now? It is not Argus. It is not a Void stronghold. We don't know what the Argus equivalent of Void is.

It's not Argus one to one, true. But in terms of raising the stakes it's pretty similar. An entire planet almost completely under the control of an antagonistic force.

K'aresh is better in Midnight for the same reason Argus was better in Legion than it would have been in WoD. It probably could have worked. But you don't want to have the big showstopper zone BEFORE the part where you have to fight off the big invasion.

I would rather K'aresh feel like there are stakes involved, and that we are in a dangerous place. Rather than either losing and knowing we will just come back again in a year. Or just having a neutered Ethereal zone with no big reason to go there.

[milkmustache]

Maybe?

The Beledar is an interdimensional vessel, containing 5 naaru. These are the 5 naaru that communicated with Mereldar through visions, teaching her about the Light. The reason being that one day, her people would need to free the Beledar from the clutches of the Void and fight in defense of this world.

Their increasing shift to the Void is part of a natural cycle, but probably spurred on by everything going on around them. Black Blood and so on. (Five lanterns, now darkened.)

The mural of Azj-Kahet is prophetic and depicts a possible future in which the Beledar is completely darkened, and where the ascended Nerubians worship at the feet of a God.

That God is Xal'atath, the Ascended.

Perhaps once the Dark Heart's hunger has been sated, she intends to use it on herself which is "the awakening". The rise of a new God on Azeroth, one which consume the world.

Usually not on board with some of your theories, but this would be a ton of fun. I like the thought behind this a lot!

[Cheezits]

It's not Argus one to one, true. But in terms of raising the stakes it's pretty similar. An entire planet almost completely under the control of an antagonistic force.

K'aresh is better in Midnight for the same reason Argus was better in Legion than it would have been in WoD. It probably could have worked. But you don't want to have the big showstopper zone BEFORE the part where you have to fight off the big invasion.

I would rather K'aresh feel like there are stakes involved, and that we are in a dangerous place. Rather than either losing and knowing we will just come back again in a year. Or just having a neutered Ethereal zone with no big reason to go there.

I feel like this would be circumvented by K'aresh hinting at a Void Fortress we don't know of yet, and then building it up there and through Midnight before we go there to settle up with Dimensius. He doesn't seem like the type to just hide in the ruins of K'aresh.

[milkmustache]

It's not Argus one to one, true. But in terms of raising the stakes it's pretty similar. An entire planet almost completely under the control of an antagonistic force.

K'aresh is better in Midnight for the same reason Argus was better in Legion than it would have been in WoD. It probably could have worked. But you don't want to have the big showstopper zone BEFORE the part where you have to fight off the big invasion.

I would rather K'aresh feel like there are stakes involved, and that we are in a dangerous place. Rather than either losing and knowing we will just come back again in a year. Or just having a neutered Ethereal zone with no big reason to go there.

I personally see K'aresh as a warning rather than a stronghold, though. Argus was the final battleground against the Legion, it always would be. It's similar to K'aresh in the sense that it was a planet destroyed by said cosmic power, but instead of sticking around and making it their fortress, The Void consumed K'aresh and moved onwards.

Going to Argus in WoD wouldn't have made sense because we were both unprepared to battle the Legion, but also unaware of their impending invasion.

Going to K'aresh in TWW can work because we've been chasing Xal'atath, the Harbinger of the Void around for a while now, fully aware she is plotting an action against our Worldsoul with the Void. Following the Dark Heart to K'aresh can be our character's idea of the only thing we can do to stop her. Being on K'aresh, seeing what destruction from the Void can do to a planet does raise the stakes because we are looking at the fate of Azeroth if we were to fail... which we will in 11.2.

[Khaza-R]

I am honestly not convinced it is. What does make sense is shelving the Worldcore finale until TLT, and making 12.0 into Void themed Legion, rather than what it looked like might have been next, which was backside of Azeroth with the Arathi.

K'aresh makes perfect sense as the big payoff in Midnight after being properly teased a full expansion in advance. Not unceremoniously dumped at us half a year after we had a five second teaser about it. Only to then move on to a significantly less spectacular Void themed expansion, right as everyone is good and tired of Void stuff.

I am all for the devs having changed stuff. But going to K'aresh in TWW isn't a minor change. It's a complete tonal shift.

Understandable but I don't really see how it can be a better fit for Midnight when all we know is that it has 1. Elves, 2. Quel'thalas, 3. Void invasion, 4. Sunwell

Lets remember that a lot of people hated that Argus was tacked on to Legion because thought it was going to be its own expansion one day. Player speculations/expectations and what Blizzard does are frequently not in sync.

[Dvalin]

I personally see K'aresh as a warning rather than a stronghold, though. Argus was the final battleground against the Legion, it always would be. It's similar to K'aresh in the sense that it was a planet destroyed by said cosmic power, but instead of sticking around and making it their fortress, The Void consumed K'aresh and moved onwards.

Going to Argus in WoD wouldn't have made sense because we were both unprepared to battle the Legion, but also unaware of their impending invasion.

Going to K'aresh in TWW can work because we've been chasing Xal'atath, the Harbinger of the Void around for a while now, fully aware she is plotting an action against our Worldsoul with the Void. Following the Dark Heart to K'aresh can be our character's idea of the only thing we can do to stop her. Being on K'aresh, seeing what destruction from the Void can do to a planet does raise the stakes because we are looking at the fate of Azeroth if we were to fail... which we will in 11.2.

That's an interesting take you and others are raising. I can get behind that. And seeing how the core of Ka'resh seems to be eaten, well, that makes it thematic, still (war WITHIN). The Worldsoul's prison (with maybe some Rootlands around it) could then be a patch-zone for TLT, for example.
@Khaza-R I don't know. Expansions centred around Azeroth are generally better than us travelling to whole new planets. Outland worked because of the Warcraft strategy games, but we knew next to nothing about Argus. Shadowlands had some ties to Azeroth and older lore, but also struggled with connectivity. So, a whole new planet as expansion, like Argus, wouldn't have been such a good decision as you might think.

[Joshuaj]

I personally see K'aresh as a warning rather than a stronghold, though. Argus was the final battleground against the Legion, it always would be. It's similar to K'aresh in the sense that it was a planet destroyed by said cosmic power, but instead of sticking around and making it their fortress, The Void consumed K'aresh and moved onwards.

Going to Argus in WoD wouldn't have made sense because we were both unprepared to battle the Legion, but also unaware of their impending invasion.

Going to K'aresh in TWW can work because we've been chasing Xal'atath, the Harbinger of the Void around for a while now, fully aware she is plotting an action against our Worldsoul with the Void. Following the Dark Heart to K'aresh can be our character's idea of the only thing we can do to stop her. Being on K'aresh, seeing what destruction from the Void can do to a planet does raise the stakes because we are looking at the fate of Azeroth if we were to fail... which we will in 11.2.

I mean, this would be fine ngl.