The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Triceron]

Azshara would make more sense appearing in Midnight since one of the themes is Elven unification, and she was one of the greatest known Elves. Resolving the Naga story would make sense in Midnight.

[Worldshaper]

We didn't see him "return to the game".

What we interacted with was a mirror image in a pocket dimension of his creation, which explicitly ran out of magic and seized to exist after we were done with it.

Oh, ye of little faith. They wouldn't have included him at all unless they had plans.

[Khaza-R]

Personally my guess for Midnight tiers

12.0 - Sunwell - They flat out said the void invasion is to destroy the Sunwell so this will definitely be the first raid tier
12.1 - Arathi/Scarlet raid - I think we'll encounter more antagonist forces from the Arathi Empie. Possibly them trying to colonize parts of the EK and using the Scarlets as a proxy. The army of the Light will become a problem essentially
12.2 - Worldcore - Again the explanation of Midnight states something does horribly wrong that leads into TLT. I think this is Azeroth becoming corrupted by the void and the facilitating the titans return to try and stop it

[Sondrelk]

Personally my guess for Midnight tiers

12.0 - Sunwell - They flat out said the void invasion is to destroy the Sunwell so this will definitely be the first raid tier
12.1 - Arathi/Scarlet raid - I think we'll encounter more antagonist forces from the Arathi Empie. Possibly them trying to colonize parts of the EK and using the Scarlets as a proxy. The army of the Light will become a problem essentially
12.2 - Worldcore - Again the explanation of Midnight states something does horribly wrong that leads into TLT. I think this is Azeroth becoming corrupted by the void and the facilitating the titans return to try and stop it

WHile cool. I somehow doubt a Scarlet Crusade raid in 12.1. Though I would be happy to be proven wrong. Some nice Scarlet Crusade themed stuff would be nice. And I rarely pass up the chance to kill fanatical crusaders.
Personally I am more inclined to think we will see a Scourge raid. Though givne Midnight might go back to a Megadungeon it's hard to say.

[Khaza-R]

WHile cool. I somehow doubt a Scarlet Crusade raid in 12.1. Though I would be happy to be proven wrong. Some nice Scarlet Crusade themed stuff would be nice. And I rarely pass up the chance to kill fanatical crusaders.
Personally I am more inclined to think we will see a Scourge raid. Though givne Midnight might go back to a Megadungeon it's hard to say.

i don't disagree. I think Scarlets and Scourge will be featured in raids and megadungons. Although who gets attritbuted to what is still in the air

If people are right about 14.0 being Avaloren then I think Midnight will be the perfect time to start planting those seeds.

[Nymrohd]

Something has to happen to bring the Titans back in TLT.
a) The Manifold completely breaks apart releasing the World Soul from Titan influence. This would be tied to a Worldcore patch. It doesn't make much sense for there to be a delayed response but at the same time, I am not sure you would want another underground patch in Midnight after the underground expansion in TWW
b) Another force takes control of the World Soul. Right now Void, Light and Life are actually poised to take it over from Order. Could be that by the end of Midnight either Void or Light make a move on Azeroth.
c) Something endangers the Titans themselves. Perhaps it is not about Azeroth. Maybe at the end of Midnight, Iridikron somehow claims power and goes after them directly. I am a bit surprised that the Earth Incarnate has not had a single cameo in the UNDERGROUND expansion.

[Hitei]

i don't disagree. I think Scarlets and Scourge will be featured in raids and megadungons. Although who gets attritbuted to what is still in the air

If people are right about 14.0 being Avaloren then I think Midnight will be the perfect time to start planting those seeds.

I don't think it's impossible for the Scarlets to be involved in a raid or megadungeon, but I do think it's a bit silly. Where are they even getting members from at this point?

[Raetary]

Oh, ye of little faith. They wouldn't have included him at all unless they had plans.

They included him because the questline was about cleaning up Dalarans mess and reflecting on the Kirin Tors past failures.
Of which Kel'thuzad is one of their biggest ones.

That is also why they had Jaina disarm a mana bomb.

[Hitei]

Something has to happen to bring the Titans back in TLT.
a) The Manifold completely breaks apart releasing the World Soul from Titan influence. This would be tied to a Worldcore patch. It doesn't make much sense for there to be a delayed response but at the same time, I am not sure you would want another underground patch in Midnight after the underground expansion in TWW
b) Another force takes control of the World Soul. Right now Void, Light and Life are actually poised to take it over from Order. Could be that by the end of Midnight either Void or Light make a move on Azeroth.
c) Something endangers the Titans themselves. Perhaps it is not about Azeroth. Maybe at the end of Midnight, Iridikron somehow claims power and goes after them directly. I am a bit surprised that the Earth Incarnate has not had a single cameo in the UNDERGROUND expansion.

He's not the Earthwarder or anything. His elemental is earth but he doesn't really have some deeper connection to being underground the way that Neltlharion was specifically tasked to protect the deep places. Since he seems wholly focused on revenge on the Titans, his eyes are upwards, not downwards.

I think that option C is unlikely, just because well... don't the Titans sort of have to come to us? Otherwise the expansion would be off-world not Northrend.

I'm curious if Northrend will actually still be Northrend. Like we know the Titans are coming back, but what is the actual zone by zone play of TLT? Is it just going to be HD Northrend? What is Howling Fjord like when the Vrykul have been all but wiped out? What are we doing in Borean Tundra when the Scourge are non-existent and the blue flight are doing okay now?

[Khaza-R]

I don't think it's impossible for the Scarlets to be involved in a raid or megadungeon, but I do think it's a bit silly. Where are they even getting members from at this point?

Understandable but that's been an issue since forever. How the hell did they retake Gilneas despite being thrice exterminated?

[Sondrelk]

i don't disagree. I think Scarlets and Scourge will be featured in raids and megadungons. Although who gets attritbuted to what is still in the air

If people are right about 14.0 being Avaloren then I think Midnight will be the perfect time to start planting those seeds.

In thinking about it. I think they will definitely aim to do one Scourge themed raid sometime during Midnight and TLT. And having it be in TLT is probably a bit obvious compared to a Zul'drak raid. Which leaves Midnight as the one where you could have a Scourge raid somewhere like Stratholme or Scholomance.

[Hitei]

In thinking about it. I think they will definitely aim to do one Scourge themed raid sometime during Midnight and TLT. And having it be in TLT is probably a bit obvious compared to a Zul'drak raid. Which leaves Midnight as the one where you could have a Scourge raid somewhere like Stratholme or Scholomance.

I still think people are setting themselves up for disappointment by assuming that the expansion is going to be Quel'thalas AND Lordaeron with them not mentioning anything at all about Lordaeron.

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I also don't think we're likely to see a scourge raid in an expansion where the primary themes are elves and the void (because there has to be at least one raid of each of these, right?) and we already have a secondary major theme in the way of Trolls.

If there's a Scourge raid, it'll be in TLT and probably linked to Azjol-Nerub/Ahn'kahet. Not that many big fortresses for the Scourge left, and I think ICC will probably be the main city if Ulduar isn't.

[Sondrelk]

I still think people are setting themselves up for disappointment by assuming that the expansion is going to be Quel'thalas AND Lordaeron with them not mentioning anything at all about Lordaeron.

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I also don't think we're likely to see a scourge raid in an expansion where the primary themes are elves and the void (because there has to be at least one raid of each of these, right?) and we already have a secondary major theme in the way of Trolls.

If there's a Scourge raid, it'll be in TLT and probably linked to Azjol-Nerub/Ahn'kahet. Not that many big fortresses for the Scourge left, and I think ICC will probably be the main city if Ulduar isn't.

Ehh. I still think assuming we only get Quel'thala, but blown up to a full expansion just sounds too weird considering the whole thing is predicated on general nostalgia.
And as I have always said. Pretty much every plotline that makes sense for Quel'thalas is just a lesser version of what you have in Lordaeron, like the Scourge, Scarlet Crusade, Arathi. etc.

A scourge raid in TLT would make sense. But given there is likely only one extra raid that can fit into that expansion besides Iridikron's lair and the likely World Soul finale raid, I think it's more likely the Scourge raid is done in Midnight where they can bank on more nostalgia. And TLT does something with the unused concepts from WotLK like Zul'drak or Utgarde raid.

[Catastrophy349]

TWW ending and Midnight transition are going to be juicy

[Hitei]

Ehh. I still think assuming we only get Quel'thala, but blown up to a full expansion just sounds too weird considering the whole thing is predicated on general nostalgia.
And as I have always said. Pretty much every plotline that makes sense for Quel'thalas is just a lesser version of what you have in Lordaeron, like the Scourge, Scarlet Crusade, Arathi. etc.

But do any of those actually make sense? The Scourge are a past plotpoint for Quel'thalas, not a major current one. The Scarlets have absolutely nothing to do with Quel'thalas, the Arathi are only related by virtue of some of their ancient ancestors being High Elves, but they themselves specifically do NOT consider themselves Elves, so why would they give much thought to Quel'thalas?

The likely plotlines for Quel'thalas are like: Void (we know this is the main storyline, a void confrontation), the Elves (100% confirmed that them reuniting is a major plot point), the Amani are very likely, maybe the Naga (they are an Elven tribe and we know from Forbidden Reach that Azshara is going to get involved when Xal's plan is complete).

I don't think focusing some of Midnight (even a hypothetical Lordaeron including Midnight) on the Scourge does anything but backtrack narratively. Quel'thalas should be leaving the Scourge in the past. The Lordaeron storyline shouldn't be retreading a Scourge plotline it already did in Vanilla AND Cataclysm, when we know that the Scourge have been pretty much wiped from existence in Tirisfal and lower Lordaeron, WPL exterminated all of them and was pretty much a regular forest zone again, EPL had the Scourge as a relatively contained threat and as healing the land (the exploring book even specified that post BfA the plague is slowly fading)

All putting the Scourge as a big enough thing to be a raid tier or patch zone does is take steps backwards in the storylines of the region. It's just a "yeah, the Scourge are completely wiped out and the Cult has been pretty much dismantled and the Lich King doesn't even exist anymore but... for some reason the Scourge are rallying here in this place that should have moved past that already so it's going to stay scourge-y rather than healing"

But in TLT it works well for nostalgia. Northrend is the Scourge continent, so of course there's still remnants, and of course there's gonna be at least some dungeons about undead. It makes sense that some places that were left empty and full of corpses (Azjol-Nerub, Zul'Drak, Utgarde, Wintergrasp) where renewed Scourge presence would be a logical step forward in the story.

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Like I can't think of a more frustrating thing than getting HD Quel'thalas but there's still a giant black line full of skeletons and ghouls because apparently the Blood Elves and all their druidic and shaman allies combined can't handle small scale undead that novice player adventurers were fighting against or heal the land even though priests and paladins are managing to do it in WPL/EPL the stronghold of the Scourge and Cult in the region. I can't think of anything more annoying than "yeah, I know you killed everything that moved in Stratholme and Scholomance TWICE but somehow an entire legion of undead and necromancers snuck back in, so fight this same enemy in the same place a third time."

Quel'thalas should be nearly healed. Stratholme should be being repaired and repopulated by Argents, and Forsaken and formerly Lordaeron humans. Scholomance should be being rennovated by the Kirin Tor as an interim central location. Deatholme should have long since been torn down and the Ghostlands largely purged. The story shouldn't go backwards--or refuse to move forwards.

[Joshuaj]

I think she might be re-introduced in Midnight but I think she might go on into TLT. Her having an interaction with Illidan and Sargeras is more thematically fitting imo.

Would be the most awkward conversation ever, and I'm here for it!

Also, this kinda reminds me of a Nobbel speculation video some time ago.

[Sondrelk]

But do any of those actually make sense? The Scourge are a past plotpoint for Quel'thalas, not a major current one. The Scarlets have absolutely nothing to do with Quel'thalas, the Arathi are only related by virtue of some of their ancient ancestors being High Elves, but they themselves specifically do NOT consider themselves Elves, so why would they give much thought to Quel'thalas?

You do need something outside the void attacking Silvermoon. The part where the Arathi are having a storyline that may not end up going anywhere. Or helping the Centaur in the Dragon Isles just for some variety.

You say that we have the Void, The elves, and the Naga. But these are technically the same three plotlines. The main plotline is the void attacking Silvermoon, which encompasses the Void and Elves pretty solidly by itself. And the Naga are just elves, no matter how much you want to make it it's own thing. Every time we have dedicated Naga plotlines it's about Elves and pretty much always has been. Assuming it isnt, then the obvious choice is that the Naga are about the void, which just brings it back to the A plot.

For that matter, when you talk about Elves you also logically should talk about areas outside Quel'thalas. Like Seradane in the Hinterlands. Or for that matter, the Arathi, who are half elves. A plotline which you certainly could contain to Quel'thalas only, but would feel pretty silly when you don't actually go to the area they are from, or the major human kingdoms in Gilneas and Lordaeron.

Besides the Elves you have the Amani of course. And while this is probably the closest you get to a plotline that could be contained to Quel'thalas, and not be entirely about Elves and the Void. You would still be ignoring iconic locations like the big city in the Hinterlands.

Besides that, the plotlines that make the most sense right now are Scourge through Deatholme. A plotline which makes more sense to tell in the Plaguelands and Stratholme.
The Forsaken through Sylvanas. A plotline which makes more sense to explore by going to Lordaeron.
And the Scarlet Crusade by virtue of leading into the Arathi Empire, which also makes sense exploring through Lordaeron and teh Scarlet Monastery.

What other stuff really exists in Quel'thalas at this point that isnt one of the things I mentioned? Is there going to be a giant city of Murlocs to fill space?

The only other explanation that could make sense is if we go for a more general theme of TBC nostalgia and bring in the Draenei. But then you are still going outside the boundaries of Quel'thalas. And only making it more obvious that there isnt enough in Quel'thalas proper to carry a full expansion by itself.


As for the stuff about the Scourge. Killing enemies "for the last time" is a staple in WoW. We have probably wiped out the Scarlet Crusade 3-4 times at this point. And yet they keep coming back and being a nuisance. I don't see why the Scourge couldnt be entrenched in places like Scholomance, Stratholme, or pockets like caves or what have you.

[Joshuaj]

Personally my guess for Midnight tiers

12.0 - Sunwell - They flat out said the void invasion is to destroy the Sunwell so this will definitely be the first raid tier
12.1 - Arathi/Scarlet raid - I think we'll encounter more antagonist forces from the Arathi Empie. Possibly them trying to colonize parts of the EK and using the Scarlets as a proxy. The army of the Light will become a problem essentially
12.2 - Worldcore - Again the explanation of Midnight states something does horribly wrong that leads into TLT. I think this is Azeroth becoming corrupted by the void and the facilitating the titans return to try and stop it

Dimensius could damage the Worldcore during the battle at K'aresh or summ like that, assuming the Sunwell is used by the Void to tear a rift between worlds, similar to how the Sargerite Keystone tore rifts between worlds and whatnot.

- - - Updated - - -

It doesn't JUST have to occur during Midnight.

Xal'atath tries to corrupt the Worldcore with the Black Blood in TWW, and Dimensius damages it + the Worldsoul in Midnight.

[alex wolf]

Something has to happen to bring the Titans back in TLT.
a) The Manifold completely breaks apart releasing the World Soul from Titan influence. This would be tied to a Worldcore patch. It doesn't make much sense for there to be a delayed response but at the same time, I am not sure you would want another underground patch in Midnight after the underground expansion in TWW
b) Another force takes control of the World Soul. Right now Void, Light and Life are actually poised to take it over from Order. Could be that by the end of Midnight either Void or Light make a move on Azeroth.
c) Something endangers the Titans themselves. Perhaps it is not about Azeroth. Maybe at the end of Midnight, Iridikron somehow claims power and goes after them directly. I am a bit surprised that the Earth Incarnate has not had a single cameo in the UNDERGROUND expansion.

Im still thinking we'll stop the void in 12.0 or 12.1 but having the manifold being destroyed in the process and then the light aligned forces that join us for Renilash try to seize the world core

Weather that's the Au AoL, Arathi backed Scarlets or just some Naruu and friends idk but I think this will be the catalyst for the titans returning and setting up the light as an antagonist

I also don't think locus walker is going to betray us fwiw

[Joshuaj]

Don't expect the Light to be the final antagonists of Midnight, ngl. Renilash being the climax of Midnight makes sense.