The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[allegrian]

I've been thinking about raiding lately. With M+ and now delves it's become more and more unrewarding, even mythic feels unrewarding compared to the level of difficulty and commitment required. Raids feel like an old remnant of the original wow while most players just engage on m+ or delves as the real endgame, while running raids on lfr/normal/hc as a completion token or for the story.

And then, raids become obsolete and forgotten after a season/expansion ends, unlike dungeons which can come back at later seasons.

It'd be fun if old raids, which nos have almost always 8 bosses, lile old mega dungeons, become 2 M+ dungeons on future rotations with some tweaks on boss and trash mechanics and routes. That way they wouldn't be completely forgotten and would be part of the endgame most people play regularly.

[Darkarath]

The Plague is in the past. After Shadowlands, bringing it back would be a bad joke.

A new Plague of Decay would be another thing, though. We all know Decatriarch Wratheye from DF and how she escaped.

I don't think that Iridikron is peacefully resting during TWW. He is probably mastering the Decay Magic that he extracted from the body of Galakrond with the Black Heart. In Dawn of Infinite, he says: "A hunger lost to the ages. One which I shall reclaim!". So basically he wants to become a new Galakrond.

Iridikron is probably building an army of Decay. He can raise anything that he wants, and he has plenty of bones in Northrend. Now that the Dragons have mostly returned to the Dragon Isles, no one is going to stop him there.

In Midnight we will see the first appearances of his army. The Amani will be overrun. It would be a similar situation like the one we lived in Northrend with the Frost Trolls. We will cleanse the Amani forests of this new Plague, saving the surviving Amani Trolls in the process.

The Decay Plague will also be present in Lordaeron, and of course the Scarlet Crusade (heavily teased in the past two years) will be doing their thing and we will have to stop both of them. I would not discard that the Arathi integrate the Scarlet Crusade in their army. Probably they have similar zealots in their Empire, and us fighting the Scarlets could be the first point of friction with the Arathi.

I can see a very different Northrend, with at least the following:

- Two underground zones (Azjol-Nerub and Harrowsdeep).

- The surviving Azjol-Nerub Nerubians will be confronting the Decay Plague, but this time their cousins of Azj'kahet will come to their aid.

- The Earthen of Northrend and the Earthen of Khaz Algar will become allies.

- There would be a full Dragon war between Iridikron's Decay army and the Aspects forces. Similar to the War between the Blue Dragonflight and the rest of the Dragon forces in WotLK.

- The Djaradin, the Harranir, the Arathi and the mysterious Vrykul of Siren Isle will be present.

- Regarding the Titans... Is really difficult to speculate about them until we know why they come to Azeroth. One thing is certain, though: Illidan and Sargeras will be free.

Changing the subject, I see some speculation about Kel'thuzad. Please stop. He is not coming back. It was a little cameo in the anniversary perfectly resolved in those quests. It would be pathetic if Blizzard brings him again.

We have to move forward. Characters like Thrall, Jaina, Sylvanas, Tyrande, Malfurion (this one especially) have become jokes, and the best service that they can do to the story is dying with some dignity. Thankfully Blizzard is presenting a new generation of characters that will eventually replace some of them.

BTW, good work with Delves in Season 2 Blizzard. All the changes are fantastic:

- The totem for the venom is now easier to handle.

- The underwater Delves feel much better now that we don't have to care about breathing.

- The difficulty adjustments are perfect. This is a feature for casual players and it should have a casual difficulty.

They will need to do something with raids and dungeons, because I can see most players just doing Delves (like myself ).

[Hitei]

You do need something outside the void attacking Silvermoon. The part where the Arathi are having a storyline that may not end up going anywhere. Or helping the Centaur in the Dragon Isles just for some variety.

You say that we have the Void, The elves, and the Naga. But these are technically the same three plotlines. The main plotline is the void attacking Silvermoon, which encompasses the Void and Elves pretty solidly by itself. And the Naga are just elves, no matter how much you want to make it it's own thing. Every time we have dedicated Naga plotlines it's about Elves and pretty much always has been. Assuming it isnt, then the obvious choice is that the Naga are about the void, which just brings it back to the A plot.

Ehhhh. "Something outside the Void attacking Silvermoon" would be the Amani and whatever is happening with them. I wasn't conceiving of "void elves and Naga" being the same plotline. The Void is attacking the region. Repelling the Void and fighting against its forces, any traitorous associates it has, etc. is one plotline. The main, flashy plotline of Midnight (Consider it the 'fighting Nerbuians' of Midnight). The Blood Elves, Void Elves, and High Elves coming to some sort of agreement where they reunify is another plotline (akin to the Earthen factions coming back together and deciding to defy the edicts). The Naga invading are their own hypothetical plotline, similar to the goblins, as are the Amani.

All those plotlines intersect, yes. But so do the Nerubians, Arathi, Earthen and Goblins. Maybe the Amani and Naga are working with the Void, but they are still their own distinct groups and zones and potentially raids.

For that matter, when you talk about Elves you also logically should talk about areas outside Quel'thalas. Like Seradane in the Hinterlands. Or for that matter, the Arathi, who are half elves. A plotline which you certainly could contain to Quel'thalas only, but would feel pretty silly when you don't actually go to the area they are from, or the major human kingdoms in Gilneas and Lordaeron.

They aren't. Like I said, they specifically, explicitly DO NOT consider themselves "elves" or "half elves", or something. They are Arathi. They are not looking to reconnect to their Elven roots, because they're not Elven. It's like expecting the Sindorei or Kaldorei to suddenly be involved in a plotline about Troll factions reunifying. Yes, ostensibly the Blood/Night Elves are troll descendents, but they do not consider themselves some variant of Trolls.

Besides the Elves you have the Amani of course. And while this is probably the closest you get to a plotline that could be contained to Quel'thalas, and not be entirely about Elves and the Void. You would still be ignoring iconic locations like the big city in the Hinterlands.

Besides that, the plotlines that make the most sense right now are Scourge through Deatholme. A plotline which makes more sense to tell in the Plaguelands and Stratholme.

- - -

As for the stuff about the Scourge. Killing enemies "for the last time" is a staple in WoW. We have probably wiped out the Scarlet Crusade 3-4 times at this point. And yet they keep coming back and being a nuisance. I don't see why the Scourge couldnt be entrenched in places like Scholomance, Stratholme, or pockets like caves or what have you.[

My issue isn't even with the repetitive nature or the logic. Though both of those are significant problems.

My issue is that you (not you specifically, but this approach we're discussing) are just actively harming the story. The Scourge can't be entrenched in places like Scholo or Strat, because what is even the point of having expansions set in existing locations that revamp those locations if ABSOLUTELY NOTHING happens in the story and all we're doing is actively walking back any sort of progression or passage of time?

The point of returning to places is to see how they progress. To see the bridge in Redridge built after being in progress, and how you helped fight back the scourge in the Plaguelands so now the land is healing and going back to normal, to go to Southshore and you slaughtered all the humans, so now there's just a messed up farm building things out of their bodies, and to visit Ashenvale and the war between the sentinels and warsong has escalated.

The point isn't to go back and see that literally nothing has changed, or that somehow they've reversed. That the quests you did are just randomly undone for no reason, and all the same problems are still there solely for the sake of pretending to do those problems again. Because how do you expect players to give a shit about fighting in Stratholme when they know it's not going to matter because it only half mattered the first time and apparently didn't matter at all the second time? How can you expect players to be excited about going back if you're planning on just giving them the same thing?

That was the misstep in 80% of Cata zones. Most of them were just the same place with the same threat and the same storylines being repeated despite enemies having been killed, so all of those are forgettable and completely uninteresting. Who was hyped over Cata Elwynn?

What other stuff really exists in Quel'thalas at this point that isnt one of the things I mentioned? Is there going to be a giant city of Murlocs to fill space?

I don't know.

That is why I have continually expressed since announcement that I think it's likely Quel'thalas is 1-2 zones, and that K'aresh will be for Midninght what Hallowfall/Azj-kahet is for TWW. I think you could see ZA wildly expanded eastward, or underground into its own zone, and I think you could see Azshara and the Naga in some sort of off-shore underwater zone or raised from the seafloor zone that connects mainland Quel'thalas to the Quel'danas.

I agree that Quel'thalas alone is a weak base. I just don't see the almost completely disconnected and unrelated plotlines of Lordaeron being roped into it as a solution (or that it's likely they are doing so but didn't lead with Lordaeron being the big announcement when they know that's what players are obsessed with), and I hope to god they don't just retread the Scourge plotlines of Ghostlands, regressing the story back to 2007 instead of advancing it forward to let us see what Quel'thalas should look like ~3 decades later in game, rebuilt in all its glory.

[Sondrelk]

-snipped because I am too lazy to format properly-

You have the Void and Amani and what you. But you also need C-list enemies. The Centaur and Arathi of Midnight. The ones that are there for more generic enemies just for variety and not really for main plot related stuff.


The Scourge being entrenched might seem like backsliding. But it wouldnt be the first time we had supposedly cleared somewhere out, only for us to come back years later and have to clear it out again. And with places like Scholomance and Stratholme you could easily justify it as a necromancer moving into Scholomance, and Stratholme just having loads of places for zombies to stick around. Making the actual process of retaking the city slow, justifying why we have to go in and defeat whatever abomination is left behind in the mayors office or whatever.
It really isnt as egregious as you make it out to be. It would be egregious if the zone as a whole is backsliding. But so long as you show that the rest of the zone is being retaken, and that cities are being rebuilt and what have you, you could just say that those areas are where the main effort has been put in.

Zones having the same threat as before is pretty much what people would expect as well. When you go to Booty Bay you fight pirates. And when you go to Feralas you go into Dire Maul and fight whoever has taken up residence there. In the case of the Plaguelands you deal with Necromancers and talk about the history of the people there. Expecting that the writers will come up with entirely new concepts for every zone is a bit daft when the entire justification for going back is nostalgia.

When it comes to stuff not mattering. You just make sure that you point out that it did actually matter, and that what we are doing now is the continuation of that effort. Let's not forget that places like Stratholme have not been a dungeon since Vanilla. And last time we returned there in Legion, it was still effectively a Scourge infested area. Even if the Argent Crusade had the place mostly under control.
A storyline where you end up making Stratholme into an actual player hub or some kind would definitely be forward momentum, and showing how the zone has changed since last we saw it. It used to be a dungeon deep in hostile territory in Vanilla. The Plaguelands were half retaken, with a srong presence of Paladins in Cataclysm. And in Midnight it could easily be that the Plaguelands is now safe enough for regular travellers, with the players being there for the final push to see the zone cleansed for good. Ending the arc of the zone conclusively, which it certainly wasnt last time we were there.



For the zones seeming disconnected. I think you are too focused on assuming that the Void is the end-all-be-all of storylines in Midnight, around which everything revolves. The main plotline will almost certainly be that. But I think there is a strong possibility that like how Legion took time to help Farondis and his people in Azsuna, or stopping Dargrul in Highmountain. That alongside stopping the Void in Silvermoon, we will also take the time to help generally around that area of the EK in order to be more effective at stopping the Void.
We don't go to the Hinterlands just because the Amani are there. We go there because we want the aid of the Wildhammer dwarves and find them struggling with Amani. Or go to Arathi Highlands because the Arathi from Hallowfall are taking a detour there for religious reasons or what have you.



Though. If you are going on the assumption that we get Quel'thalas and also K'aresh or whatever as launch zones then I can respect that. Personally I find that highly unlikely given the general aversion players have to split zones. But it's certainly a possbility. Certainly a better choice than just making Eversong Woods 6 times the size and have one of the dungeons be the murloc camp the Belves fought during levelling.

[Joshuaj]

The Plague is in the past. After Shadowlands, bringing it back would be a bad joke.

A new Plague of Decay would be another thing, though. We all know Decatriarch Wratheye from DF and how she escaped.

I don't think that Iridikron is peacefully resting during TWW. He is probably mastering the Decay Magic that he extracted from the body of Galakrond with the Black Heart. In Dawn of Infinite, he says: "A hunger lost to the ages. One which I shall reclaim!". So basically he wants to become a new Galakrond.

Iridikron is probably building an army of Decay. He can raise anything that he wants, and he has plenty of bones in Northrend. Now that the Dragons have mostly returned to the Dragon Isles, no one is going to stop him there.

In Midnight we will see the first appearances of his army. The Amani will be overrun. It would be a similar situation like the one we lived in Northrend with the Frost Trolls. We will cleanse the Amani forests of this new Plague, saving the surviving Amani Trolls in the process.

The Decay Plague will also be present in Lordaeron, and of course the Scarlet Crusade (heavily teased in the past two years) will be doing their thing and we will have to stop both of them. I would not discard that the Arathi integrate the Scarlet Crusade in their army. Probably they have similar zealots in their Empire, and us fighting the Scarlets could be the first point of friction with the Arathi.

I can see a very different Northrend, with at least the following:

- Two underground zones (Azjol-Nerub and Harrowsdeep).

- The surviving Azjol-Nerub Nerubians will be confronting the Decay Plague, but this time their cousins of Azj'kahet will come to their aid.

- The Earthen of Northrend and the Earthen of Khaz Algar will become allies.

- There would be a full Dragon war between Iridikron's Decay army and the Aspects forces. Similar to the War between the Blue Dragonflight and the rest of the Dragon forces in WotLK.

- The Djaradin, the Harranir, the Arathi and the mysterious Vrykul of Siren Isle will be present.

- Regarding the Titans... Is really difficult to speculate about them until we know why they come to Azeroth. One thing is certain, though: Illidan and Sargeras will be free.

Changing the subject, I see some speculation about Kel'thuzad. Please stop. He is not coming back. It was a little cameo in the anniversary perfectly resolved in those quests. It would be pathetic if Blizzard brings him again.

We have to move forward. Characters like Thrall, Jaina, Sylvanas, Tyrande, Malfurion (this one especially) have become jokes, and the best service that they can do to the story is dying with some dignity. Thankfully Blizzard is presenting a new generation of characters that will eventually replace some of them.

BTW, good work with Delves in Season 2 Blizzard. All the changes are fantastic:

- The totem for the venom is now easier to handle.

- The underwater Delves feel much better now that we don't have to care about breathing.

- The difficulty adjustments are perfect. This is a feature for casual players and it should have a casual difficulty.

They will need to do something with raids and dungeons, because I can see most players just doing Delves (like myself ).

Not wanting something back cause "Shadowlands bad" is silly and it's usually not how Blizzard does things.

A new type of plague would be cool tho, however I'd like for it to be a plot that STARTS in TLT maybe, and culminates in a future saga.

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Hmmm...I have 2 theories now:

Either Azeroth is the first child of the Progenitors and is also their golden child (This would explain why they're hiding her, why each force wants her, and why the Titans are doing their thing, tho the Titans might have lost touch of this purpose maybe? Idk. Regardless, the Worldsouls being made to represent all 6 forces makes sense, even if it mostly failed).

Or Azeroth was once a mega being who split into entities known as the First Ones, and the First Ones are keeping the last of Azeroth's essence away from the 7th (This would ALSO explain why the First Ones are hiding her, why the Titans are doing their thing, etc. Maybe the Worldsouls are its essence split up, and the design is meant to be united and everything so Azeroth can emerge with it regaining much of its original power and so much more, etc. Could also explain the Zereth naming convention, why the Progenitor buildings have gold and blue in their material, and all that stuff, tho ig the first theory could explain this as well. Idk tho).

Regardless, I'm thinking it's one of the two at this rate. Both are really badass imo, tho the second theory would connect the entire cosmology to Azeroth, thus likely making SL feel less odd to people setting-wise.

[Khaza-R]

Don't expect the Light to be the final antagonists of Midnight, ngl. Renilash being the climax of Midnight makes sense.

Its defininitely not outside the realm of possibility. I think people also need to realize that Metzen burns through characters like fodder for lore. There's nothing stopping Avaloren and Emperor Thoradin being the final patch in Midnight

[Hitei]

Its defininitely not outside the realm of possibility. I think people also need to realize that Metzen burns through characters like fodder for lore. There's nothing stopping Avaloren and Emperor Thoradin being the final patch in Midnight

I think that Ion's comments in that recent interview on 11.1 would act as evidence against this.

He specifically said that they are very aware of the "go someplace we've never heard of and have no context for" issue, and so they are actively attempting to seed and hint at places so they can build them before we reach them. It should be assumed that they are seeding stuff for after TLT, and that they're unlikely to just burn Alvaloren on a patch zone in Midnight... because then what are we left with in terms of locales for after the saga?

[Khaza-R]

I think that Ion's comments in that recent interview on 11.1 would act as evidence against this.

He specifically said that they are very aware of the "go someplace we've never heard of and have no context for" issue, and so they are actively attempting to seed and hint at places so they can build them before we reach them. It should be assumed that they are seeding stuff for after TLT, and that they're unlikely to just burn Alvaloren on a patch zone in Midnight... because then what are we left with in terms of locales for after the saga?

I think that is questionable.

Firstly, we have 2.3 more expansions to build lore for 14.0. Also lets be real that Avaloren is not Metzen's creation. He may have no interest in pursuing it. In the same sense that despite Gallywix being in Tazavesh, there abolutely no connection to this whatsoever in 11.1.

[Darkarath]

I think that is questionable.

Firstly, we have 2.3 more expansions to build lore for 14.0. Also lets be real that Avaloren is not Metzen's creation. He may have no interest in pursuing it. In the same sense that despite Gallywix being in Tazavesh, there abolutely no connection to this whatsoever in 11.1.

No chance that we go to Avaloren (if that is the land of the Arathi Empire) in the WSS.

The Arathi are a successful addition to WoW. It seems that everyone likes them (unlike the Harranir). There is no doubt that we will visit and confront the Arathi Empire in the future. It is difficult to know when, though.

Now that they have started to revamp old zones, I doubt that they will stop until they have revisited, at the very least, Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms in full.

This doesn't mean that we won't visit new places from time to time. For example, after TLT, I have little doubt that we will visit a new continent. How to fit the supposedly vast Arathi Empire between old revamps, though? I highly doubt that we will defeat them in one expansion, so it will definitively be interesting to see what approach Blizzard takes.

I'll give you that the beginning of the confrontation with the Arathi will most likely start in the WSS. I can see them sending an expedition to support us in the war against the Void, only to report back how many different and quarreling races are profaning their ancient lands, in dire need of some cleansing by the Sacred Flame.

[Hitei]

I think that is questionable.

Firstly, we have 2.3 more expansions to build lore for 14.0. Also lets be real that Avaloren is not Metzen's creation. He may have no interest in pursuing it. In the same sense that despite Gallywix being in Tazavesh, there abolutely no connection to this whatsoever in 11.1.

Right, but the longer it goes, the less effective building is.

There's no reason to assume Avaloren has been discarded. It is effectively just a name. The only things we know about it are the implication that the Arathi are from there (and Metzen likes Paladin/priest stuff), the implication that it has its own brood of green dragons (Metzen likes dragons and druid stuff) and that it's beyond a permanently stormy set of oceans. Why would Metzen (not that he even just makes unilateral decisions), throw it away? He could literally do whatever story he wanted there. Any sorts of zones could be put there. Why scrap the established location for some new place "Bogglediboop Island" and build lore for that, establish what that is, when you could just do all those exact same ideas on Avaloren.

Now that they have started to revamp old zones, I doubt that they will stop until they have revisited, at the very least, Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms in full.

They all but flat out said this wasn't the case, and "Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms" would involve like 3-4 expansions of nothing but boring existing zones.

[Joshuaj]

I think that Ion's comments in that recent interview on 11.1 would act as evidence against this.

He specifically said that they are very aware of the "go someplace we've never heard of and have no context for" issue, and so they are actively attempting to seed and hint at places so they can build them before we reach them. It should be assumed that they are seeding stuff for after TLT, and that they're unlikely to just burn Alvaloren on a patch zone in Midnight... because then what are we left with in terms of locales for after the saga?

Agreed in that Avaloren should be an expansion in of itself, however it's not the only major place left to explore.

The other cosmic realms, revamps of old locations, exploring more regarding the elements and returning to the Elemental Planes on Azeroth, the rest of the Twisting Nether (From worlds such as Xoroth, Rancora, and Nathreza, to the further, darker corners of the Disorder Realm), etc are all good examples of future expansion plotlines that involve exploration and older story updates to make way for new stories.

- - - Updated - - -

I think that is questionable.

Firstly, we have 2.3 more expansions to build lore for 14.0. Also lets be real that Avaloren is not Metzen's creation. He may have no interest in pursuing it. In the same sense that despite Gallywix being in Tazavesh, there abolutely no connection to this whatsoever in 11.1.

1. Unknown if Metzen made them or not. Regardless, they exist, and Metzen can't just change things whenever he wants. That's not how things work.

And 2. What do you mean "no connection"? There are a bunch of Shadowlands pictures at Undermine lol. Gallywix likely just went there to talk business, do some trades, etc. Maybe there is more to it than that, but we don't know. Regardless, his visit to the Shadowlands wasn't for nothing. None of this is relevant to the backside of Azeroth btw.

Oh, and for extra clarity on the matter, Metzen's been planting the seeds for the backside of Azeroth for a while now. He's totally supportive of this type of narrative.

[Darkarath]

They all but flat out said this wasn't the case, and "Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms" would involve like 3-4 expansions of nothing but boring existing zones.

On the contrary, they all but flat out said that this will be the case. For example in one of the interviews of 11.1 Ion hints (again) the revamp of more zones.

That you don't like some zones doesn't mean that other players might enjoy them or that Blizzard might make something new and interesting with them.

Full Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms revamps are an inevitability. It can take as many expansions as they want. Midnight and TLT are key to see what we might expect. There is 0 chance that Northrend doesn't get a full revamp in TLT and it is really huge, with multiple zones, and we have to take into account that now they add a new zone with each big patch.

[Joshuaj]

Its defininitely not outside the realm of possibility. I think people also need to realize that Metzen burns through characters like fodder for lore. There's nothing stopping Avaloren and Emperor Thoradin being the final patch in Midnight

He really doesn't...

TBC was about Outland, the introduction to the Burning Legion for the players, and us "stopping" Illidan.

Wrath was about us getting more info on the Titans, dealing with Yogg-Saron, and facing the Lich King (Who was built up since WC3)

Cata was about the return of Ragnaros and us going to the Elemental Planes, us learning more about N'Zoth and Azshara, and us stopping Deathwing.

MoP was about us stopping the Sha, stopping Garrosh, facing Lei'Shen the Thunder King, and saving Pandaria.

WoD was about us going to alternate Draenor, seeing a glimpse of the past, facing off against the Iron Horde, and stopping Archimonde once and for all.

Legion was about us stopping the Burning Legion's invasion on Azeroth, defeating Kil'jaeden, going to Argus, meeting the Titans, and "stopping" the Dark Titan. The Emerald Nightmare was stopped as well, but that plot's existed since Cata, and it's still self contained within the Broken Isles for Legion.

Skipping BFA and SL cause Metzen didn't work on them outside of basic notes likely + the BFA intro cinematic

And DF is about us going to the Dragon Isles, meeting the Incarnates, bringing back Tyr and giving the Aspects their powers back, learning about the Dark Heart, going to the Emerald Dream, and stopping Fyrakk from destroying Amirdrassil. Iridikron is still alive.

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Metzen has NEVER wasted characters or areas like fodder, and whenever he does do stuff regarding characters or areas, they're usually relevant to the narrative at hand. Heck, even without Metzen, BFA and SL followed this same pattern.

We're not going to "Avaloren" in Midnight. K'aresh, most likely, but not the Arathi Empire on the backside of Azeroth.

[Hitei]

On the contrary, they all but flat out said that this will be the case. For example in one of the interviews of 11.1 Ion hints (again) the revamp of more zones.

That you don't like some zones doesn't mean that other players might enjoy them or that Blizzard might make something new and interesting with them.

Full Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms revamps are an inevitability. It can take as many expansions as they want. Midnight and TLT are key to see what we might expect. There is 0 chance that Northrend doesn't get a full revamp in TLT and it is really huge, with multiple zones, and we have to take into account that now they add a new zone with each big patch.

Okay, but here is word for word what was said at WSS announcement:

With the mention of specific zones in Midnight, should we expect continent-wide updates or more local updates?

Mostly local. With the detail put into modern zones, it's just not feasible to do full updates. Really want to focus and put our full effort into the specific areas related to these expansions. Expect a fresh coat of paint on specific area, but also that older versions likely won't be completely removed. Think Chromie Time.

[Joshuaj]

Ofc, this is assuming K'aresh ain't the final patch of TWW, which I'm fairly certain it isn't.

- - - Updated - - -

Okay, but here is word for word what was said at WSS announcement:

At best, I'm expecting either JUST Quel'thalas to be updated (Alongside an update to Elwynn and Durotar maybe to fit with Player Housing), or slow but sure updates to the old world across multiple expansions and Sagas. So for Midnight, it'd be northern EK, for another expac, it'd be northern Kalimdor, for another expac, it'd be Southern EK, and so forth.

[Darkarath]

Okay, but here is word for word what was said at WSS announcement:

Exactly.

It is not feasible to fully update one continent in one expansion. We have known that for years. We also know that they won't make again the mistake of removing the past versions of revamped zones, although I think that a Bronze Dragon NPC is not the best way to handle that issue. Curious to see what they will do in Midnight.

Anyway, I fail to see how this quote means that we won't eventually get full revamps of Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms.

[Hitei]

Exactly.

It is not feasible to fully update one continent in one expansion.

No, she said is that it is not feasible to do full updates. You are deliberately altering the whole statement.

Anyway, I fail to see how this quote means that we won't eventually get full revamps of Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms.

It, and other similar interview answers all paint the exact same picture, which is the exact opposite of your claim that

Now that they have started to revamp old zones, I doubt that they will stop until they have revisited, at the very least, Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms in full.

Because at every single opportunity when the idea of a revamp was brought up, they basically said "we're focused on small specific areas". Maria Hamilton, as above, said full updates aren't viable and they're focusing on specific areas. Tina Wang responded to a question about world revamps and how there hadn't been one since Cata by talking about moments like Darkshore in BfA and bringing back up that they were doing Quel'thalas. Their plan is not "update the whole old world". They just do some updates where it specifically makes sense. Hence us getting Quel'thalas and then them completely ignoring the rest of EK and Kalimdor in favor of Northrend. Rather than doing say, Northern EK and then southern Kalimdor, with TLT focused on Uldum, AQ and the Sword.

It just isn't in their current plans to do a long steady line of old world revamps. Unless your argument here is that 15-20 years from now they'll have done enough specific few zone updates to make up all of EK and Kalimdor, it's just not a likely thing with their current stated views.

[Viridiel]

I think that is questionable.

Firstly, we have 2.3 more expansions to build lore for 14.0. Also lets be real that Avaloren is not Metzen's creation. He may have no interest in pursuing it. In the same sense that despite Gallywix being in Tazavesh, there abolutely no connection to this whatsoever in 11.1.

Only tangentially related, but Tazavesh is actually mentioned in the epilogue quests of 11.1. They talk about it as though they now believe Tazavesh is the goblin afterlife. Maybe Gallywix was making deals to set himself up for his afterlife and we haven't seen the end of him.

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It just isn't in their current plans to do a long steady line of old world revamps. Unless your argument here is that 15-20 years from now they'll have done enough specific few zone updates to make up all of EK and Kalimdor, it's just not a likely thing with their current stated views.

Isn't that exactly the argument? The first zones done will be outdated by the time we get to the end, but hopefully they're implementing changes as they go that will make it easier to update in the future.

[huth]

Anyway, I fail to see how this quote means that we won't eventually get full revamps of Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms.

Because a full revamp can only be meaningfully done all at once. Otherwise, you will invariably end up with zones that are visibly made at different points in time.

Your interpretation does not make sense. There will never be a full revamp ever again. The game simply has grown to large and intricate for that to be feasible.

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Isn't that exactly the argument? The first zones done will be outdated by the time we get to the end, but hopefully they're implementing changes as they go that will make it easier to update in the future.

Wouldn't work. Things on the dev side change enough in that timeframe that they'd have to redo those changes as well. It's mostly a failure to understand how game development actually works that keeps people in this delusion that there's a world revamp coming.

Cata was already way more work that in the end didn't meaningfully pay off. They're not going to waste their time like that again.

[Hitei]

Isn't that exactly the argument? The first zones done will be outdated by the time we get to the end, but hopefully they're implementing changes as they go that will make it easier to update in the future.

That is exactly the motivation behind Maria's interview answer.

Modern zones are too complex and intricate, it is a Sisyphean task to update them, because you can only do so much of EK or Kalimdor at a time, and doing them all bit by bit has you arrive back at at a start where the oldest part is just as out of date as it was when you started. By the time we get to 14.0 in like 2032, Darkshore and Arathi Highlands updates will be nearly as out of date as Cata zones are right now. If 14.0 and 15.0 both revamp parts of Kalimdor, and 16.0 updates the entire rest of EK, it'll already have been almost ten years since Midnight updated Quel'thalas, and like fifteen years since we got an expansion actually set in a new location.

It's just a headache for them to even try. I do think we will see other updates. Like maybe they do 14.0 in Avaloren and then 15.0 is set in updated Southern Kalimdor where some threat shows up, and then 16.0 and 17.0 are somewhere else, and 18.0 is Pandaria or something.

But I do not think full scale, complete revamps are ever going to happen. They are, at best, gonna do specific regions now and then. They're definitely not gonna shoot hype in the foot by making 8-10 straight years of revamping old zones.