The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Merryck]

the worldsoul saga was supposed to be a story heavy trilogy, but until now there is no difference with other expansions. if anything, the main campaign is actually shorter than the usual. i'm a bit disappointed tbh

ah, i might be a contrarian but imo 11.1 was the highest point of the expansion while 11.1.7 continues the trend of sappy and boring questlines started with dragonflight. the writers don't know how to write conflict between the horde and the alliance and morally grey stories in general. it's a bummer because i was kind excited when i read the 11.1.7 patch notes

These sappy stories make me nauseous. Everyone is too introspective and lack a spine. Danath Trollbane acts like a whipped dog. And the quest line ends with a "this isn't over ..." Yikes. This does not bode well for Midnight.

[Alanar]

Honestly, I find it kinda refreshing to still get Sylvanas inspired stuff but with different palletes this time, we already have like 3 different versions of her classic colours already anyways.

I think there you got the problem for most. "Inspired" stuff is what blizz has been doing since like always. Done with that tbh. These are simply new items for us, that you either like or not.

People want the actual items, seen on major characters or past versions of that. Like the actual sylvanas armor. They are more open about it now then they used to, but with this particular armor. They could have given us the shadowlands sylvanas pieces instead and people would have been nore excited probably.

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the worldsoul saga was supposed to be a story heavy trilogy, but until now there is no difference with other expansions. if anything, the main campaign is actually shorter than the usual. i'm a bit disappointed tbh

ah, i might be a contrarian but imo 11.1 was the highest point of the expansion while 11.1.7 continues the trend of sappy and boring questlines started with dragonflight. the writers don't know how to write conflict between the horde and the alliance and morally grey stories in general. it's a bummer because i was kind excited when i read the 11.1.7 patch notes

Sadly you are right. This expansion (part of the saga) feels like any othet expansion. Its not that story heavy or any big difference. Once again we are doing the same with a different backround. None of the characters, including villains are really a big hit and the story on top of that is just flat out boring. I personaly took a break, because of it. As well that everything feels like a chore/drag for me. Probably exhausted as well, because its just the same over and over.

[Nymrohd]

I get that story wise this expansion is so far kind of a dud, but imo gameplay and content are doing well. There have never been as many activities to do and as many progression paths before in the history of WoW. The raid is solid; it's not amazing but it is better than the previous one or any DF raid imo. The M+ season is very good. I am a bit disappointed that they nerfed delve difficulty to the ground though (but I did try the new 11.1.7 mechanics and those delves are definitely more of a challenge); they need to give Brann some spec specific tuning to reach some relative parity between different specs for solo play imo. Undermine is an interesting zone, the new event is kind of trash but it's minimal engagement so you can get your rewards with very few hours of play. I personally loved Horrific Visions so I cannot wait for them to be back (Dastardly Duos though were a complete mess in the PTR imo, good idea bad execution).
I still think TWW is better than average and final (non-fated) seasons have historically been strong points for expansions (imo only exception is Cata, I think even BfA's final tier was OK).

[Wyrt]

This expansion very much feels like a filler while we wait for the real void threat expansion in Midnight.

[Alanar]

I get that story wise this expansion is so far kind of a dud, but imo gameplay and content are doing well. There have never been as many activities to do and as many progression paths before in the history of WoW. The raid is solid; it's not amazing but it is better than the previous one or any DF raid imo. The M+ season is very good. I am a bit disappointed that they nerfed delve difficulty to the ground though (but I did try the new 11.1.7 mechanics and those delves are definitely more of a challenge); they need to give Brann some spec specific tuning to reach some relative parity between different specs for solo play imo. Undermine is an interesting zone, the new event is kind of trash but it's minimal engagement so you can get your rewards with very few hours of play. I personally loved Horrific Visions so I cannot wait for them to be back (Dastardly Duos though were a complete mess in the PTR imo, good idea bad execution).
I still think TWW is better than average and final (non-fated) seasons have historically been strong points for expansions (imo only exception is Cata, I think even BfA's final tier was OK).

Idk, out side the story, it just feel you are doing the same things as always. Maybe I am not the best example, because of previous said reasons, but idk this whole new idea of saga, doesnt feel different then what we were doing in previous expansions. I feel like there are more misses this expansion then plusses imo.

The feautures or introduced characters all were kinda meh to me as well. I played all of Hv, al rewards, but ended up hating them, so I am not excited about them either. Personal opinions i guess.

[Nymrohd]

Idk, out side the story, it just feel you are doing the same things as always. Maybe I am not the best example, because of previous said reasons, but idk this whole new idea of saga, doesnt feel different then what we were doing in previous expansions. I feel like there are more misses this expansion then plusses imo.

I am sorry but the story of WoW is only ever just dressing. It's not why you play the game as an MMO. It is why you play for 10 hours on patch release maybe as a sandbox CRPG but that is not what this game is designed for. The meat is repeatable content and gameplay. For a long time it was just raiding, then we slowly got different forms of World Content, then M+ and now Delves. So yes, the game is not going to be different than the last expansion or than any expansion beyond giving MORE options and progression paths (And it very much is doing that in TWW). If you are playing this game for two decades just for those 10 hours per patch of new story that has never at its very best been above what the most mediocre CRPGs can serve, I don't know what to tell you. This is some crazy sunk cost fallacy pit you are all trying to climb out of.

[Alanar]

I am sorry but the story of WoW is only ever just dressing. It's not why you play the game as an MMO. It is why you play for 10 hours on patch release maybe as a sandbox CRPG but that is not what this game is designed for. The meat is repeatable content and gameplay. For a long time it was just raiding, then we slowly got different forms of World Content, then M+ and now Delves. So yes, the game is not going to be different than the last expansion or than any expansion beyond giving MORE options and progression paths (And it very much is doing that in TWW). If you are playing this game for two decades just for those 10 hours per patch of new story that has never at its very best been above what the most mediocre CRPGs can serve, I don't know what to tell you. This is some crazy sunk cost fallacy pit you are all trying to climb out of.

Again, personal opinions I guess. I dont know what to tell you more either, said my opinion. You are clearly more excited and I am not really.

[Dracullus]

Legion was amazing in terms of story and lore. Absolutely jam packed with cool story content. It all felt very "Warcraft," too. Nice cadence, too.

SURAMAR was packed, but not whole Legion. Broken Shore had no story beside prologue quest, Argus was regular 2-3 chapters thing. Now people complain there is no story in minor patch 8 weeks after Undermine was packed.

And of course I agree that Undermine, while high quality as standalone, is side story masked as main one through pointless 'let's broke this important thing in patch 1 and fix it in patch 2' plot.

[Joshuaj]

This expansion very much feels like a filler while we wait for the real void threat expansion in Midnight.

No expansion is filler.

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SURAMAR was packed, but not whole Legion. Broken Shore had no story beside prologue quest, Argus was regular 2-3 chapters thing. Now people complain there is no story in minor patch 8 weeks after Undermine was packed.

And of course I agree that Undermine, while high quality as standalone, is side story masked as main one through pointless 'let's broke this important thing in patch 1 and fix it in patch 2' plot.

Undermine is kinda carried by the music and the car tbh.

[Nymrohd]

SURAMAR was packed, but not whole Legion. Broken Shore had no story beside prologue quest, Argus was regular 2-3 chapters thing. Now people complain there is no story in minor patch 8 weeks after Undermine was packed.

And of course I agree that Undermine, while high quality as standalone, is side story masked as main one through pointless 'let's broke this important thing in patch 1 and fix it in patch 2' plot.

I'd say what packed Legion with content was the wealth of class exclusives. Yes Broken Shore sucked but it gave you time to play more class campaigns/farm hidden artifacts etc.

[Scyth]

I get that story wise this expansion is so far kind of a dud, but imo gameplay and content are doing well. There have never been as many activities to do and as many progression paths before in the history of WoW. The raid is solid; it's not amazing but it is better than the previous one or any DF raid imo. The M+ season is very good. I am a bit disappointed that they nerfed delve difficulty to the ground though (but I did try the new 11.1.7 mechanics and those delves are definitely more of a challenge); they need to give Brann some spec specific tuning to reach some relative parity between different specs for solo play imo. Undermine is an interesting zone, the new event is kind of trash but it's minimal engagement so you can get your rewards with very few hours of play. I personally loved Horrific Visions so I cannot wait for them to be back (Dastardly Duos though were a complete mess in the PTR imo, good idea bad execution).
I still think TWW is better than average and final (non-fated) seasons have historically been strong points for expansions (imo only exception is Cata, I think even BfA's final tier was OK).

This is where I'm at right now too. I'm enjoying the expansion a lot, lots of stuff to do and the raids have, imo at least, been good.

The story is definitely not the strongest part of the xpac but I have to say Undermine has been great imo. Goblins deserved a patch to themselves.

Big hopes for 11.2, we will see how they execute it. But it's hard to blame people for feeling TWW is just waiting room for Midnight

[huth]

I am sorry but the story of WoW is only ever just dressing. It's not why you play the game as an MMO. It is why you play for 10 hours on patch release maybe as a sandbox CRPG but that is not what this game is designed for. The meat is repeatable content and gameplay. For a long time it was just raiding, then we slowly got different forms of World Content, then M+ and now Delves. So yes, the game is not going to be different than the last expansion or than any expansion beyond giving MORE options and progression paths (And it very much is doing that in TWW). If you are playing this game for two decades just for those 10 hours per patch of new story that has never at its very best been above what the most mediocre CRPGs can serve, I don't know what to tell you. This is some crazy sunk cost fallacy pit you are all trying to climb out of.

I'm always confused why people expect epic writing off what is essentially a saturday morning cartoon to begin with. It's never going to be Lord of the Rings 2. It isn't meant to be.

[Al Gorefiend]

The worst thing about Undermine is I've been saying for years since future expansion threads as far back as before WoD was announced that if/when they do Undermine it's big enough to carry an expansion itself.

I think everything being crammed into a patch left me wanting more and the gut feeling that's all we're going to get is pretty sad. I would gladly take the very next patch as Undermined 2.0 for another 3 months of Undermine content.
The rest of the expansion can just be Undermine, Orwenya gives me seenthisbefore-itis from Talanji, Ethereals can be saved for Midnight to break up the elf fatigue.

And people who expect epic stories out of Warcraft... idk what to tell you. Sorry Arthas killing his dad almost 3 decades ago gave you a boner, it's always been silly. You can point to serious plots and history like draenei genocide but it's still completely juxtaposed by offbeat side quests and poop collection quests.

WoW is at its greatest strength when it stops trying to be edgy try hard epic like what all the other ones are doing and focus more on the silly bullshit and Saturday morning cartoon-tier villains like Fyrakk. Like ooooh elden ring wow so epic save the world fight the giant monster and it gets copied over and over like dragon age and dark souls. You think comics like Marvel would have gotten so popular if it was just serious shit all the time? They throw in silly like talking animals and raccoons with guns.

[Nymrohd]

I'm always confused why people expect epic writing off what is essentially a saturday morning cartoon to begin with. It's never going to be Lord of the Rings 2. It isn't meant to be.

What WoW is decent at is world building. Not great at but definitely good enough to make it enjoyable.

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The worst thing about Undermine is I've been saying for years since future expansion threads as far back as before WoD was announced that if/when they do Undermine it's big enough to carry an expansion itself.

I think everything being crammed into a patch left me wanting more and the gut feeling that's all we're going to get is pretty sad. I would gladly take the very next patch as Undermined 2.0 for another 3 months of Undermine content.
The rest of the expansion can just be Undermine, Orwenya gives me seenthisbefore-itis from Talanji, Ethereals can be saved for Midnight to break up the elf fatigue.

Yeah, what stings is that Undermine as a patch zone probably means we never see Kezan.

[Joshuaj]

The worst thing about Undermine is I've been saying for years since future expansion threads as far back as before WoD was announced that if/when they do Undermine it's big enough to carry an expansion itself.

I think everything being crammed into a patch left me wanting more and the gut feeling that's all we're going to get is pretty sad. I would gladly take the very next patch as Undermined 2.0 for another 3 months of Undermine content.
The rest of the expansion can just be Undermine, Orwenya gives me seenthisbefore-itis from Talanji, Ethereals can be saved for Midnight to break up the elf fatigue.

And people who expect epic stories out of Warcraft... idk what to tell you. Sorry Arthas killing his dad almost 3 decades ago gave you a boner, it's always been silly. You can point to serious plots and history like draenei genocide but it's still completely juxtaposed by offbeat side quests and poop collection quests.

WoW is at its greatest strength when it stops trying to be edgy try hard epic like what all the other ones are doing and focus more on the silly bullshit and Saturday morning cartoon-tier villains like Fyrakk. Like ooooh elden ring wow so epic save the world fight the giant monster and it gets copied over and over like dragon age and dark souls. You think comics like Marvel would have gotten so popular if it was just serious shit all the time? They throw in silly like talking animals and raccoons with guns.

*Looks at Argus, Ny'alotha, and the Emerald Dream*

You thought UNDERMINE would get an expac all on its lonesome? Really? I mean, sure, it'd make for a killer Hearthstone expac, but that's it.

[allegrian]

TWW zones feel quite disconnected outside of the first 2. The earthen and arathi are barely connected to the main plot and overall vibe, they could perfectly be from 2 different expansions. The same goes for azkahet, which feels disconnected from the rest and at the end of the day that zone is a nerubian vs nerubian story, and not an earthen/arathi/factions vs nerubians.

Same goes for undermine, a completely self contained story of goblin vs goblin that you could put in basically any expansion (it's not even in the expansion "continent"), with only the slight xalatath connection which is not even needed. You could change the "dark blood" and replace it with "azherite" and it would perfectly fit as a BFA patch.

[Khaza-R]

This expansion very much feels like a filler while we wait for the real void threat expansion in Midnight.

How can it be filler if its directly leading to said invasion?

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TWW zones feel quite disconnected outside of the first 2. The earthen and arathi are barely connected to the main plot and overall vibe, they could perfectly be from 2 different expansions. The same goes for azkahet, which feels disconnected from the rest and at the end of the day that zone is a nerubian vs nerubian story, and not an earthen/arathi/factions vs nerubians.

Same goes for undermine, a completely self contained story of goblin vs goblin that you could put in basically any expansion (it's not even in the expansion "continent"), with only the slight xalatath connection which is not even needed. You could change the "dark blood" and replace it with "azherite" and it would perfectly fit as a BFA patch.

Isn't like half of the campaign in Hallowfall about stopping the invading Nerubians and the other half is about the Order of Night?

[allegrian]

How can it be filler if its directly leading to said invasion?

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Isn't like half of the campaign in Hallowfall about stopping the invading Nerubians and the other half is about the Order of Night?

It's more about the kobyss + order of the night and then some nerubians at the start and at the end which feels forced. Again, the main story in hallowfall is not about the nerubians or the earthen, it's about 2 new enemy factions (kobys + order of the night) and the light, which is not a main theme of the expansion, it feels really out of place. TWW feels disjointed and now you just wonder what the hell are the main characters/factions still doing in Dornogal.

[FossilFree]

The problem with Undermine is they ruined it with no flying. After all of this "we finally fixed flying!" in DF and TWW launch, now they are trying to backpeddle and have no flying again. I'm tired of it.

A high tech city with Gundam mechs everywhere yet we can't fly there. Why? "Oh the ceiling is too low!" No it's not, it's not any worse than Zaralek Caverns and that wasn't made to be no flying.

[SilverLion]

I'd say what packed Legion with content was the wealth of class exclusives. Yes Broken Shore sucked but it gave you time to play more class campaigns/farm hidden artifacts etc.

There are a handful of very good class campaigns
Death Knights, Demon Hunters, Mages perhaps. Monks are okay I guess. The rest of them cannibalize a lot of world building and racial identity for a mediocre pay out. The Paladin one is is practically insulting if you didn't like human paladin lore.