The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Ersula]

I kind of wish Delves were more like Torghast and Islands. More unique gameplay and more varied environments.

I maintain Torghast was an amazing idea, only the rewards were bad and for some insane reason they never brought the gameplay torghast had on the beta to live. It was too balanced when roguelikes are fun when they're unbalanced.

[Hitei]

I kind of wish Delves were more like Torghast and Islands. More unique gameplay and more varied environments.

They're supposedly a permanent endgame pillar right? So it's mostly about what people ask for and what they respond to when they make more sweeping changes with each new expansion and such.

[Dracullus]

I kind of wish Delves were more like Torghast and Islands. More unique gameplay and more varied environments.

Strange thing to say when Islands and Torghast were already hated first patch and Delves simply worked. But of course more 'open' environments will be nice, just like with dungeons. One of new delves is open, still very gloomy though.

[Khaza-R]

I think delves being mostly feeling like same-ish cave environments is more with the TWW theme. I expect Midnight Delves will feature more varied and urban settings. Ruins of Silvermoon, Scourge ruins, Amani crypts, etc

[Nymrohd]

Strange thing to say when Islands and Torghast were already hated first patch and Delves simply worked. But of course more 'open' environments will be nice, just like with dungeons. One of new delves is open, still very gloomy though.

You know why delves worked? They have great rewards without being mandatory. Torghast and Islands had crap rewards but were still mandatory. Islands had poor gameplay because the content and the gameplay did not match at all (here is large open sandbox to explore with great variety in events! But you have to do it under time pressure and with a group). And Torghast was overnerfed and had no variety.
Which is my bigger issue with delves, the lack of variety. Earthworks, Kriegval's and Waterworks are the same place. Sinkole and Tal-Rethan, Underkeep and Spiral Weave, Mycomancer's and Fungal Folly. It's giving TBC when we had so many dungeons at release but they were effectively five dungeons in different variations. Love the new delves they are actually distinct.

[Ersula]

Strange thing to say when Islands and Torghast were already hated first patch and Delves simply worked. But of course more 'open' environments will be nice, just like with dungeons. One of new delves is open, still very gloomy though.

do you think that might be because islands & torghast gave nebulous currency while delves give tangible rewards? The incentive was the issue, not the content.

I hope they utilize former expansion gimmicks to give us more diverse delves. Lets bring island, torghast & warfront technology into delves. They don't always have to be dungeons. Imagine a tower defense stockade delve where you manage waves of guards to clear out the prison, etc.

[Makabreska]

Islands > Torghast any day. Torghast was just so drab with greys and browns everywhere, and getting overpowered fast got boring very quickly.

[Worldshaper]

Fun Xal'atath Facts

• Was once trapped inside a dagger called Black Blade of the Empire.
• Possesses the corpse of a dead High Elf.
• Is at least as old as the Black Empire, but probably older. (The Black Empire is at least tens of thousands of years old, but likely hundreds of thousands or even more.)
• Is a Harbinger of the Void, a title previously worn by Deathwing who sought to usher in the Hour of Twilight.
• Has 'risen from the ashes of countless worlds'.
• Considers Elune and 'upstart goddess' and her enemy.
• Considers the naaru to be 'beloved brethren' that lost the 'true path'.
• Considers the Old Gods to be her 'brothers,' and refers to herself and them collectively as 'us'.
• Considers the Void Lords (implied) to be her 'masters,' and one of those did whatever happened to the Ethereals.
• Once recieved a staff called Voidsong from Dimensius the Void Lord.
• Often talks about consumption of souls and essences. Seems to enjoy the idea, to draw power from others by doing so. It brings 'us' closer to the corruption of Azeroth.
• Has been used (as a dagger) in many ritualistic sacrifices.
• Sank into the ocean after the Sundering and came into the possession of the Naga, who wrote a prophecy about her fulfilling her destiny to carry out an 'awakening'.
• Often manipulates and betrays various leaders on Azeroth to further her own agenda.
• Is on a quest to infuse the Dark Heart artifact (created by the previous 'Harbinger,' Deathwing, with Void. Wants the power of the Old Gods.
• Something was 'done' to her long ago, by the Old Gods.

What does it all mean!?

[Sondrelk]

Islands > Torghast any day. Torghast was just so drab with greys and browns everywhere, and getting overpowered fast got boring very quickly.

There should be a middle ground though. The variety of island expeditions and the escalating gameplay of Torggata.

[Darkarath]

Fun Xal'atath Facts

• Was once trapped inside a dagger called Black Blade of the Empire.
• Possesses the corpse of a dead High Elf.
• Is at least as old as the Black Empire, but probably older. (The Black Empire is at least tens of thousands of years old, but likely hundreds of thousands or even more.)
• Is a Harbinger of the Void, a title previously worn by Deathwing who sought to usher in the Hour of Twilight.
• Has 'risen from the ashes of countless worlds'.
• Considers Elune and 'upstart goddess' and her enemy.
• Considers the naaru to be 'beloved brethren' that lost the 'true path'.
• Considers the Old Gods to be her 'brothers,' and refers to herself and them collectively as 'us'.
• Considers the Void Lords (implied) to be her 'masters,' and one of those did whatever happened to the Ethereals.
• Once recieved a staff called Voidsong from Dimensius the Void Lord.
• Often talks about consumption of souls and essences. Seems to enjoy the idea, to draw power from others by doing so. It brings 'us' closer to the corruption of Azeroth.
• Has been used (as a dagger) in many ritualistic sacrifices.
• Sank into the ocean after the Sundering and came into the possession of the Naga, who wrote a prophecy about her fulfilling her destiny to carry out an 'awakening'.
• Often manipulates and betrays various leaders on Azeroth to further her own agenda.
• Is on a quest to infuse the Dark Heart artifact (created by the previous 'Harbinger,' Deathwing, with Void. Wants the power of the Old Gods.
• Something was 'done' to her long ago, by the Old Gods.

What does it all mean!?

The most likely scenario is that Xal'athat is an agent of Dimensius. She succeded in K'aresh (although the timeline here might need some work as she was trapped for millenia in Azeroth), was sent to Azeroth to talk with the Old Gods, as they have been ruling the Black Empire for thousands of years and yet they haven't summoned a Void Lord to consume Azeroth.

Xal'athat learns that, surprisingsily, the Old Gods (or maybe just N'zoth) do not wish to be consumed along with Azeroth, so that is why they haven't summon a Void Lord (Azeroth herself might have influenced them). The Old Gods (or just N'zoth) conspire against Xal'athat, destroying her body and locking her essence in the Blade of the Black Empire.

Meanwhile, during all this time, a group of Ethereals have been looking for Xal'athat to exact revenge for her past deeds. Now they have the Dark Heart, something that Xal'athat desperately needs, and they have taken it to K'aresh, where the trap is prepared, just waiting for Xal'athat to appear...

[Khaza-R]

Islands > Torghast any day. Torghast was just so drab with greys and browns everywhere, and getting overpowered fast got boring very quickly.

I can't agree personally. The only worthwile element of IEs from a design perspective was the tactical AI. Its something I really wish they would of continued to play with in dungeons and delves to increase mob and encounter diversity.

The actual gameplay with Torghast was great. Its just lacked a reward structure to make climbing levels feel meaningful and the visuals were awful and depressing. If you fixed those two things, I think Torghast would be even more popular than delves.

But also speaking of Island Expeditions and BfA. Does anyone else think that maybe they put off BfA timewalking to integrate housing rewards into the system?

[alex wolf]

imagine if in midnight they gave us island expeditions (maps not game play) and mop scenarios as delves

I don't really understand why delves were made into "delves" when they are just scenarios that actually drop gear at the end and tying them into delving has led us to them all being super samey ugly caves even with the beautiful zones in TWW

tho I'm also really hoping they start using delves as a stop gap world update giving us on occasion an updated delve in an old world zone helping show whats going on there now like for example a delve in suramar where we help find withered nightborn and bring them arcandor fruit to help them

[Sondrelk]

I can't agree personally. The only worthwile element of IEs from a design perspective was the tactical AI. Its something I really wish they would of continued to play with in dungeons and delves to increase mob and encounter diversity.

The actual gameplay with Torghast was great. Its just lacked a reward structure to make climbing levels feel meaningful and the visuals were awful and depressing. If you fixed those two things, I think Torghast would be even more popular than delves.

But also speaking of Island Expeditions and BfA. Does anyone else think that maybe they put off BfA timewalking to integrate housing rewards into the system?

It's a nice thought. And it was how I initially envisioned Housing really working. But realistically I think they didnt add BfA to Timewalking because they started with rotating M+ dungeons.

Hope we get it though. So many great cosmetics that could be added. Like the coats the NPCs in Boralus use. Or the unused Warfront sets.

- - - Updated - - -

imagine if in midnight they gave us island expeditions (maps not game play) and mop scenarios as delves

I don't really understand why delves were made into "delves" when they are just scenarios that actually drop gear at the end and tying them into delving has led us to them all being super samey ugly caves even with the beautiful zones in TWW

tho I'm also really hoping they start using delves as a stop gap world update giving us on occasion an updated delve in an old world zone helping show whats going on there now like for example a delve in suramar where we help find withered nightborn and bring them arcandor fruit to help them

Would be nice for sure. Delves as a concept havfe lots of room to grow. And reusing old areas and content in new ways is a way we could get way more of them.

[Nize]

Speaking of delves, I wonder if Johnny Awesome is being set up to become our delver tag-along for Midnight.

[Worldshaper]

The most likely scenario is that Xal'athat is an agent of Dimensius. She succeded in K'aresh (although the timeline here might need some work as she was trapped for millenia in Azeroth), was sent to Azeroth to talk with the Old Gods, as they have been ruling the Black Empire for thousands of years and yet they haven't summoned a Void Lord to consume Azeroth.

Xal'athat learns that, surprisingsily, the Old Gods (or maybe just N'zoth) do not wish to be consumed along with Azeroth, so that is why they haven't summon a Void Lord (Azeroth herself might have influenced them). The Old Gods (or just N'zoth) conspire against Xal'athat, destroying her body and locking her essence in the Blade of the Black Empire.

Meanwhile, during all this time, a group of Ethereals have been looking for Xal'athat to exact revenge for her past deeds. Now they have the Dark Heart, something that Xal'athat desperately needs, and they have taken it to K'aresh, where the trap is prepared, just waiting for Xal'athat to appear...

I like this. But there's a flaw. They did try to bring about the Hour of Twilight through Deathwing.

Xal'atath herself even said "only one would remain to consume the world, that was always meant to be".

Could it be that N'Zoth in particular went rogue? "I alone can save you from what is to come".

Is he the ultimate antihero; literally and evil eldritch god but also against the destruction of Azeroth, in a sort of parasitic behaviour? Is the real N'Zoth still chilling beneath the sea, biding his time?

[Khaza-R]

It's a nice thought. And it was how I initially envisioned Housing really working. But realistically I think they didnt add BfA to Timewalking because they started with rotating M+ dungeons.

Hope we get it though. So many great cosmetics that could be added. Like the coats the NPCs in Boralus use. Or the unused Warfront sets.

That wouldn't really make sense though because Legion TW is a thing and it was added into the M+ pool in SL the same expansion it was introdocued into.

In TWW we got Classic timewalking which was unexpected. If they don't do BfA timewalking in Midnight (btw it will be 8 years old at that point) it would be weird.

[Sondrelk]

That wouldn't really make sense though because Legion TW is a thing and it was added into the M+ pool in SL the same expansion it was introdocued into.

In TWW we got Classic timewalking which was unexpected. If they don't do BfA timewalking in Midnight (btw it will be 8 years old at that point) it would be weird.

Rotating M+ dungeons were only a thing in S4 of SL, which is where they did a bunch of experimental stuff. Legion Timewalking originally had its own M+ mode, in case we forget.

[Ersula]

I like this. But there's a flaw. They did try to bring about the Hour of Twilight through Deathwing.

Xal'atath herself even said "only one would remain to consume the world, that was always meant to be".

Could it be that N'Zoth in particular went rogue? "I alone can save you from what is to come".

Is he the ultimate antihero; literally and evil eldritch god but also against the destruction of Azeroth, in a sort of parasitic behaviour? Is the real N'Zoth still chilling beneath the sea, biding his time?

I don't think Xalatath has the same goal as the other Old Gods per Deathwing. The Old Gods destroyed her body & put her in the dagger. They might be after the same thing but they're not allies with each other.

[Khaza-R]

Rotating M+ dungeons were only a thing in S4 of SL, which is where they did a bunch of experimental stuff. Legion Timewalking originally had its own M+ mode, in case we forget.

I understand. But that seems like a nonsensical reason to not continue timewalking.BfA dungeon aren't even included every season.

[Tiradon]

I think delves being mostly feeling like same-ish cave environments is more with the TWW theme. I expect Midnight Delves will feature more varied and urban settings. Ruins of Silvermoon, Scourge ruins, Amani crypts, etc

Yeah that would be awesome no doubt