The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Sondrelk]

I understand. But that seems like a nonsensical reason to not continue timewalking.BfA dungeon aren't even included every season.

It is. But that is the realistic reason why we have not gotten a BfA Timewalking season. That, and Classic Timewalking for the Anniversary might have taken up the developers free time for a similar job.

[Worldshaper]

I don't think Xalatath has the same goal as the other Old Gods per Deathwing. The Old Gods destroyed her body & put her in the dagger. They might be after the same thing but they're not allies with each other.

I'd like to know three things:

1. What was her form prior to being stuck inside the dagger? She had a staff so presumably Humanoid.

2. Who is the Old God on the mural?

3. What's with all the symbolism on Xal'atath's clothing?

[Darkarath]

I like this. But there's a flaw. They did try to bring about the Hour of Twilight through Deathwing.

Xal'atath herself even said "only one would remain to consume the world, that was always meant to be".

Could it be that N'Zoth in particular went rogue? "I alone can save you from what is to come".

Is he the ultimate antihero; literally and evil eldritch god but also against the destruction of Azeroth, in a sort of parasitic behaviour? Is the real N'Zoth still chilling beneath the sea, biding his time?

Probably just another part of N'zoth's plan.

Remember that he saw us in DF, so he kind of knew that we would survive Deathwing, which eventually would lead us to Nazjatar, which eventually would lead us to free Xal'athat, which eventually would lead us to... whatever N'zoth's is planning.

I'd like to know three things:

1. What was her form prior to being stuck inside the dagger? She had a staff so presumably Humanoid.

2. Who is the Old God on the mural?

3. What's with all the symbolism on Xal'atath's clothing?

1. A semi-humanoid voidy form? I don't think that she was an Ethereal.

2. The fifth Old God? I don't think that the Nerubians say much about the Beledar, but supposedly it has been there for a long time. Might the Beledar be the prison of the Fifth Old God? That would explain why it changes to darkness. Old Gods eventually corrupt everything. Xal'athat might need him to summon Dimensius, as it would be the last (presumably) Old God alive in Azeroth. She will destroy the Beledar, Fifth Old God falls to the ocean and escapes, eventually going to the Sunwell, which he would use to summon Dimensius.

3. Mostly Ethereal related stuff. She is related to them and to K'aresh in some way. She probably was the Harbringer there too.

[alex wolf]

It's a nice thought. And it was how I initially envisioned Housing really working. But realistically I think they didnt add BfA to Timewalking because they started with rotating M+ dungeons.

Hope we get it though. So many great cosmetics that could be added. Like the coats the NPCs in Boralus use. Or the unused Warfront sets.

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Would be nice for sure. Delves as a concept havfe lots of room to grow. And reusing old areas and content in new ways is a way we could get way more of them.

delves in old areas could also lead to some really cool trinket concepts returning while keeping them limited to hero track so balance isnt as concerned about it which is imo one of the most fun parts of time walking raids currently imo

I also think we will get bfa time walking soon though I could also see us getting more time walking raids like throne of thunder and nighthold potentially tying into midnights trolls and elves themes

[Ersula]

I'd like to know three things:

1. What was her form prior to being stuck inside the dagger? She had a staff so presumably Humanoid.

2. Who is the Old God on the mural?

3. What's with all the symbolism on Xal'atath's clothing?

You've already demonstrated that multiple figures have identified as "harbingers of the void" so why are you assuming the staff belonged to Xal? And even if it did, to a humanoid it would be a staff, it could be anything to another kind of being, on scale, from a key, totem or a sigil.

[Golden Yak]

I'd like to know three things:

1. What was her form prior to being stuck inside the dagger? She had a staff so presumably Humanoid.

Dark Naaru! The staff just floated around her.

[PenguinChan]

I like this. But there's a flaw. They did try to bring about the Hour of Twilight through Deathwing.

Xal'atath herself even said "only one would remain to consume the world, that was always meant to be".

Could it be that N'Zoth in particular went rogue? "I alone can save you from what is to come".

Is he the ultimate antihero; literally and evil eldritch god but also against the destruction of Azeroth, in a sort of parasitic behaviour? Is the real N'Zoth still chilling beneath the sea, biding his time?

Considering he wanted to corrupt the world soul I don't think he's an anti-hero, just (at best) a beneficial enemy and at worst another stone wall in making sure Azeroth is no longer corrupted.

Unrelated: Also finally got to the goblin zone, it's fun. I don't think it bares repeating that the vehicular controls are mediocre and getting the tighter control customization makes it actually far more usable. It feels like someone up above WANTED to push the drifting car design but couldn't make the areas larger to accommodate the insanely fast driving.

In consequence the zone itself feels VERY cramped (not a bad thing) since the roads are so wide while the areas where questing and action takes place are considerably smaller than usual. Even the delve has low ceiling to force your camera down. That said I do enjoy exploring between the streets and alleys more than I would a normal WoW city. They should do this more for exploration heavy RNG placements of rewards like the trashcans that randomly spawn. It's fun being rewarded for just - looking around.

[Mackud]

I don't think Xalatath has the same goal as the other Old Gods per Deathwing. The Old Gods destroyed her body & put her in the dagger. They might be after the same thing but they're not allies with each other.

Actually think this is the most likely outcome.

There's a reason why Blizzard haven't given us the timeline between when she received "Voidsong" and on her whereabouts when Titans invaded Azeroth to fight the Old Gods and also why "Voidsong" has never been since. It's quite possible "Voidsong" and the Blade are actually the same thing, The actual weapon was released as a Trading post transmog, why would you do that if its a weapon of such legend, more so than Ashbringer

It's more than likely she was a rogue Old God trapped in a blade which the current Old Gods injected themselves like heroin knowing what was in the dagger which is why she refers to them as 'us' but also holds resentments towards. Her current form could well be just your standard Old God avatar they're known to have (Sara as Yogg) and she's simply looking for a way to find how to find her Old god form as this is the first time she's found a physical body.

Although its purely speculation, there is evidence pointing that way N'Zoth knowing the identity of the dagger straight away in the Crucible cinematic where she traded freedom from the blade for the defences N'Zoth gave to the 1st boss of the raid.

It would also explain who the Black Blood belongs to.
By process of elimination we know Yogg's blood is Saronite
Ysharrj was Sha in Pandaria
N'Zoth's was in the Dragon Soul raid, the 2 pits either side with a raid boss inside each one, the boss names escape my mind.

You're down to a 50/50 coin toss at this point.

So yeah I'm of the opinion that she was sent from the Void to infiltrate Azeroth in a different way, had quite literally never had a physical form, she's gone about her business undetected causing catastrophic events in the process going completely undetected by just being a dagger and knowing N'Zoth was the weakest out the 4 facing inevitability she decided to come out of her hiding but it always didn't go to plan and the current Old Gods decided to leech her power for themselves.

But on the other hand, she knew exactly which 3 artifacts N'Zoth needed to use as a bargaining chip and exactly where to find N'Zoth. It's a bit sus if you ask me.

[Worldshaper]

You've already demonstrated that multiple figures have identified as "harbingers of the void" so why are you assuming the staff belonged to Xal? And even if it did, to a humanoid it would be a staff, it could be anything to another kind of being, on scale, from a key, totem or a sigil.

Two reasons, mainly:

The Twilight Hermit refers to the Harbinger as "she".
At BlizzCon 2023 they made sure to call Xal'atath "our Harbinger of the Void".

Keys, totems and sigils are also meant for Humanoid creatures aren't they.

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Considering he wanted to corrupt the world soul I don't think he's an anti-hero, just (at best) a beneficial enemy and at worst another stone wall in making sure Azeroth is no longer corrupted.

Good point.

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Dark Naaru! The staff just floated around her.

Who knows at this point.

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Probably just another part of N'zoth's plan.

Remember that he saw us in DF, so he kind of knew that we would survive Deathwing, which eventually would lead us to Nazjatar, which eventually would lead us to free Xal'athat, which eventually would lead us to... whatever N'zoth's is planning.



1. A semi-humanoid voidy form? I don't think that she was an Ethereal.

2. The fifth Old God? I don't think that the Nerubians say much about the Beledar, but supposedly it has been there for a long time. Might the Beledar be the prison of the Fifth Old God? That would explain why it changes to darkness. Old Gods eventually corrupt everything. Xal'athat might need him to summon Dimensius, as it would be the last (presumably) Old God alive in Azeroth. She will destroy the Beledar, Fifth Old God falls to the ocean and escapes, eventually going to the Sunwell, which he would use to summon Dimensius.

3. Mostly Ethereal related stuff. She is related to them and to K'aresh in some way. She probably was the Harbringer there too.

Xal'atath works in mysterious ways.

[Darkarath]

https://x.com/AlterTimeSK/status/1900933189939421610

Probably just creating hype, but in a recent interview, when asked about his favourite expansion, Ion says Legion, but that he hopes to change before the WSS is over.

Is he talking about Midnight or TLT?

[Nymrohd]

https://x.com/AlterTimeSK/status/1900933189939421610

Probably just creating hype, but in a recent interview, when asked about his favourite expansion, Ion says Legion, but that he hopes to change before the WSS is over.

Is he talking about Midnight or TLT?

While everyone is elf obsessed over Midnight, I hope he is talking TLT.

[Sondrelk]

https://x.com/AlterTimeSK/status/1900933189939421610

Probably just creating hype, but in a recent interview, when asked about his favourite expansion, Ion says Legion, but that he hopes to change before the WSS is over.

Is he talking about Midnight or TLT?

I am going to guess Midnight. It strikes me as something with all the same building blocks as Legion. Known area with lots of nostalgia. Strong central theme. Heavy focus on older zones for even more nostalgia.

Obviously a lot of similar traits with TLT. But Midnight strikes me as the stronger contender, what with Quel'thalas, Stratholme, and that general area being even more iconic than Ulduar and what have you.

[Khaza-R]

https://x.com/AlterTimeSK/status/1900933189939421610

Probably just creating hype, but in a recent interview, when asked about his favourite expansion, Ion says Legion, but that he hopes to change before the WSS is over.

Is he talking about Midnight or TLT?

One would think that TLT being the climax of the WSS it needs to be the most epic and most exciting.

Solid raids, revamped Northrend, Order Halls 2.0, maybe a new class. I can could see how it could give Legion a run for its money.

[Sondrelk]

While everyone is elf obsessed over Midnight, I hope he is talking TLT.

TLT will be the interesting one for sure. Everyone is focusing on Midnight given the more iconic location and systems like Housing. But TLT is the one with even more riding on it, not to mention the one with more time to refine systems and go for broke with whatever. I could easily see it being similar to Legion in terms of being a power fantasy expansion where you get loads of cool abilities. As well as generally going around feeling like an invincible hero punching Titans in the face.

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One would think that TLT being the climax of the WSS it needs to be the most epic and most exciting.

Solid raids, revamped Northrend, Order Halls 2.0, maybe a new class. I can could see how it could give Legion a run for its money.

Definitely. And of course not having Housing taking a lot of developer time. Or TWW with being stuck as the intro to the trilogy.
TLT should be easier to make for the developers I imagine.

[Nymrohd]

One would think that TLT being the climax of the WSS it needs to be the most epic and most exciting.

Solid raids, revamped Northrend, Order Halls 2.0, maybe a new class. I can could see how it could give Legion a run for its money.

I keep seeing Order Halls 2.0, did Blizzard say that?

For me the interest in TLT is the villains. Midnight has Xal who I am not nearly as enthusiastic about as most people are (but hey, I'm not into feet) and then who knows. Oh and Sylvanas will almost certainly come back as a hero, yay . . . A surprise Azshara appearance could make it interesting but otherwise villains tend to drive the story and I find most recent villains boring.
TLT though has Iridikron who I really enjoyed, it has Odyn who is a great villain. I am not excited to see how they do Azeroth vs Patriarchy with Aman'thul cause they wouldn't know nuance if it hit them in the face but I am used to that now.

[Sondrelk]

I keep seeing Order Halls 2.0, did Blizzard say that?

Not that I am aware of. I know I pitched the idea here ages ago as something that just made sense to me personally. But I have never seen any proof of it at all.

[Ersula]

I keep seeing Order Halls 2.0, did Blizzard say that?

It was an idea presented in one of the WoW player surveys. Along with artifact weapons, more allied races & retroactively adding classes to seasonal classic wow.

[Nymrohd]

It was an idea presented in one of the WoW player surveys. Along with artifact weapons, more allied races & retroactively adding classes to seasonal classic wow.

Ah, thanks. And yes add DKs to SoD. It's already Wrath gameplay in a Classic wrapper anyway.

[Darkarath]

I believe that both expansions will be very good, my only concern is the story and the narrative. After SL, and the narrative disaster that DF was, it is difficult to trust Blizzard. But TWW is doing a good job for now, so I'm positive.

What I find more interesting is what systems and improvements will Midnight and TLT implement. TLT is too far yet, but just in a few months we will have Midnight reveal ! So obviously we need to speculate about it.

We have Housing, so what else? My bets are:

- Ethereals as a playable race, whether or not K'aresh is 11.2.

- A new Void themed class.

- Account wide secondary professions.

- New customization options for all races.

- Hero Talents have been... I wouldn't say a failure, but, with some exceptions, not very impactful. I very much doubt that they are going to give us new Hero Talents Trees. First they should make the existing ones more noticiable. Probably they will stay as they are, meaning that they will give us another 10 talent points to fully complete our Hero Talent Trees, which hopefully would be heavily redesigned.

- They have confirmed that they are doing something about the new player experience in Midnight, but that it is a long project that will continue in TLT and beyond. This is a super interesting and important point. I don't think that they are going to revamp the initial zones of different races. It wouldn't make sense and they will create and even weirder timeline, as we would have to move to past zones after the initial zones.

Class Order Halls could be the key here. An evergreen system, a place that new and old players alike could share, continuously updated with new cosmetic gear and hopefully spell effects, class challenges, class companions with their respective questlines, and more importantly, class questlines, which would be the new leveling system. These questlines would take us through the major plots and localizations of WoW, while it teach us the different systems of WoW (dungeons with the Follower Dungeon system, raids with the new Story Mode, and leveling Delves). The class questline will mostly be a solo and instanced experience, so that it would not matter if the zones get revamped in the future.

[Tiradon]

I believe that both expansions will be very good, my only concern is the story and the narrative. After SL, and the narrative disaster that DF was, it is difficult to trust Blizzard. But TWW is doing a good job for now, so I'm positive.

What I find more interesting is what systems and improvements will Midnight and TLT implement. TLT is too far yet, but just in a few months we will have Midnight reveal ! So obviously we need to speculate about it.

We have Housing, so what else? My bets are:

- Ethereals as a playable race, whether or not K'aresh is 11.2.

- A new Void themed class.

- Account wide secondary professions.

- New customization options for all races.

- Hero Talents have been... I wouldn't say a failure, but, with some exceptions, not very impactful. I very much doubt that they are going to give us new Hero Talents Trees. First they should make the existing ones more noticiable. Probably they will stay as they are, meaning that they will give us another 10 talent points to fully complete our Hero Talent Trees, which hopefully would be heavily redesigned.

- They have confirmed that they are doing something about the new player experience in Midnight, but that it is a long project that will continue in TLT and beyond. This is a super interesting and important point. I don't think that they are going to revamp the initial zones of different races. It wouldn't make sense and they will create and even weirder timeline, as we would have to move to past zones after the initial zones.

Class Order Halls could be the key here. An evergreen system, a place that new and old players alike could share, continuously updated with new cosmetic gear and hopefully spell effects, class challenges, class companions with their respective questlines, and more importantly, class questlines, which would be the new leveling system. These questlines would take us through the major plots and localizations of WoW, while it teach us the different systems of WoW (dungeons with the Follower Dungeon system, raids with the new Story Mode, and leveling Delves). The class questline will mostly be a solo and instanced experience, so that it would not matter if the zones get revamped in the future.

I do think Artefacts or something along those lines will be used in TLT.. Class Halls could come up again for sure. In terms of class, honestly I don't want any new class since they can't keep it together with all the current ones (my Marksmanship main rotation is crap after the "reworked" can't even play DR decently)

Personally for Midnight, I'm just hoping they sort out what is already there and Player Housing is already by itself a big endeavour.. I don't know just hoping the new zones or "revamp" is actually good.