The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Enrif]

Exactly. How did you unironically type this but don't then see how TLT is not a good reason to bring back class halls?

You literally told warlocks, rogues, demon hunters, monks, shamans, hunters, and priests (who are now just discount paladins) to all get fucked. That is what I have been saying this entire time. There's only good places for a couple classes and the rest you're just throwing random crap like "K3" or "Tuskarr" or "a ziggurat that has nothing to do with your class" at them. Quel'thalas has places for more classes, so if you were going to make the argument that "there's lots of good class locations so class halls should come back" (which isn't true of any of the three WSS expansions) it should at least be for Midnight, not TLT.

Because at least in Midnight, you could put shamans and druids with that shamanistic pseduo druidic troll race, and rogues can go in the already existed since BC seedy back alley area of Silvermoon. And now you are leaving two classes out in the cold instead of seven of them.

compared to quel'thalas, Northrend is far more varried. And lumping 3 or 4 classes to "troll dudes", while all the rest is "elf dudes" is less class centric, and more bending class identity to fit trolls and elves.

In northrend, most classes can stay true to their class identity without being forced to confirm to 2 race ideas. Or do you really think "troll shaman oder hall", "troll druid order hall", troll warrior order hall", "elf paladin order hall", "elf mage order hall", "elf warlock order hall" etc is really people want?

Other already pointed out some of the issues of the old order halls, like tauran paladins being tied to the silver hand.
Northrend would have different options. Paladins at the Argent Tournament Grounds would solve their biggest issue they had in Legion, as the Argent Tournament was about all the different races and their representation, which fits much better for tauran, zandalari, dark iron, draenie, lightforged, earthen paladins.

And this would hold true for the other locations. You may dislike K3 for rogues, but it makes sense, as it is likely the location that makes sense for cunning rogues to hang out. If not thjat, there were also pirates in Northrend, so there is a connection for outlaw rogues too.

I give that demon hunter and warlock are the only two classes that don't fit well. But since Wrath we had Legion, so perhaps there is some demon stuff now in Northrend.

[Darkarath]

I think that the place of the Order Halls, if they ever come back, is the least important aspect of the system by far.

Give me an evergreen system, continuously updated with class-specific cosmetics, companions questlines, class questlines and a cool customizable place, wherever it might be.

[Hitei]

compared to quel'thalas, Northrend is far more varried. And lumping 3 or 4 classes to "troll dudes", while all the rest is "elf dudes" is less class centric, and more bending class identity to fit trolls and elves.

In northrend, most classes can stay true to their class identity without being forced to confirm to 2 race ideas. Or do you really think "troll shaman oder hall", "troll druid order hall", troll warrior order hall", "elf paladin order hall", "elf mage order hall", "elf warlock order hall" etc is really people want?

It's what they want more than... Tuskarr monk order hall? and Snow goblin rogue order hall? Warlocks are now pretend necromancers? Shamans sit around with a bunch of dwarves who have nothing to do with shamans. You're complaining about warriors getting Valhalla, "instead of an arena" (despite the fact that there was literally an arena in their class hall), because it was too Titan-y, but you want Demon Hunters to stand around the titan keeper shrines? Ah yes, all very "true to their class identity", I'm glad we managed to avoid Elves or Trolls.

And this would hold true for the other locations. You may dislike K3 for rogues, but it makes sense, as it is likely the location that makes sense for cunning rogues to hang out.

No, as a rogue player, it really, really, really doesn't. It's a tinker town that has absolutely nothing to do with rogues, in the middle of absolutely nowhere. Why would cunning rogues be hanging out in a town with a bunch of explosions going off nearby, mechs stomping around and a flashing beacon light advertising "HEY THERE'S A TOWN HERE"? How the hell does K3, a landlocked mountain town, have a connection to outlaw rogues "because there are pirates in a completely different zone on the other side of the continent"? I'm not sure you could pick a less sensical location for rogues to be at. They'd unironically be better off just finding a random cave to build a base in.

It is a terrible continent for class halls.

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I think that the place of the Order Halls, if they ever come back, is the least important aspect of the system by far.

Give me an evergreen system, continuously updated with class-specific cosmetics, companions questlines, class questlines and a cool customizable place, wherever it might be.

You can make all of those without order halls. Rogues, warlocks and DH all have little quests in TWW. We get class-specific cosmetics frequently. We are getting an infinitely more customizable place next expansion.

[Darkarath]

You can make all of those without order halls. Rogues, warlocks and DH all have little quests in TWW. We get class-specific cosmetics frequently. We are getting an infinitely more customizable place next expansion.

I have a questline in TWW? I am a DH. I haven't noticed :S

Anyway, I agree that with Housing coming, the main point of Class Order Halls, which is having a cool place that you can share with other players of your same class, will be far less attractive, as most people will be just chilling in their house.

I still think that they can have a place in WoW, though.

[Nymrohd]

I think that the place of the Order Halls, if they ever come back, is the least important aspect of the system by far.

Give me an evergreen system, continuously updated with class-specific cosmetics, companions questlines, class questlines and a cool customizable place, wherever it might be.

Very much agreed. Order Halls if they'd come back, should not be an expansion specific system. They should be hubs for class customization.

Also classes that have varied origins should not have Order Halls that are bound to a specific theme. No Silver Hand for all Paladins for instance, give them e.g. a Knight Tournament ground (Argent Tournament re-imagined anyone?)

[Hitei]

I have a questline in TWW? I am a DH. I haven't noticed :S

Anyway, I agree that with Housing coming, the main point of Class Order Halls, which is having a cool place that you can share with other players of your same class, will be far less attractive, as most people will be just chilling in their house.

I still think that they can have a place in WoW, though.

DH and warlock have a quest in Ringing Deeps to track down a demon. Rogues have a series of quests about stealing candles from the earthen for kobolds. Mages have a quest where the conjure food for the inn. Paladins and priests have a quest about blessing homes with incense.

[Enrif]

It is a terrible continent for class halls.

that's your opinion. I can clearly see how it works pretty well.

And if you are so hung up, about a few specific ideas.
Rogues, can go either: K3, Northsea Pirates, Ahn'kahet, Valiance Keep (if it becomes faction neutral). All of these makes perfect sense.
Shaman, can go either: Frost Giant, Frostborne, Crystal Song Forest (it had varied elementals in that area), Zul'drak
Druids, can go either: Grizzlemaw, Ursocs Den, or anywhere in Scholazar Basin
Warlocks, can go either: Any of the necropolies, Bloodmoon Isle, Temple City of En'kilah, something that might have been there from the legion invasion

there are multiple fit. It doesn't matter if they don't fit your specific idea of a class order hall

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DH and warlock have a quest in Ringing Deeps to track down a demon. Rogues have a series of quests about stealing candles from the earthen for kobolds. Mages have a quest where the conjure food for the inn. Paladins and priests have a quest about blessing homes with incense.

there is also a quest for evokers to heat a forge

[Xilurm]

DH and warlock have a quest in Ringing Deeps to track down a demon. Rogues have a series of quests about stealing candles from the earthen for kobolds. Mages have a quest where the conjure food for the inn. Paladins and priests have a quest about blessing homes with incense.

I love that stuff so much. Gives life to the RPG aspect of the game.

[Eldryth]

In-universe, it's been 15 years since we killed Arthas and left Northrend. If they want to bring back Order Halls, they can easily create new ones for any classes that don't already have a good fit and say that they were established during the time gap.

Though, personally... I think I'd prefer that they don't force them all into the current continent, and make it an evergreen feature instead. Give us a permanent home base that we go back to in every expansion for class storylines.

[Mackud]

Exactly. How did you unironically type this but don't then see how TLT is not a good reason to bring back class halls?

You literally told warlocks, rogues, demon hunters, monks, shamans, hunters, and priests (who are now just discount paladins) to all get fucked. That is what I have been saying this entire time. There's only good places for a couple classes and the rest you're just throwing random crap like "K3" or "Tuskarr" or "a ziggurat that has nothing to do with your class" at them. Quel'thalas has places for more classes, so if you were going to make the argument that "there's lots of good class locations so class halls should come back" (which isn't true of any of the three WSS expansions) it should at least be for Midnight, not TLT.

Because at least in Midnight, you could put shamans and druids with that shamanistic pseduo druidic troll race, and rogues can go in the already existed since BC seedy back alley area of Silvermoon. And now you are leaving two classes out in the cold instead of seven of them.

He ironically thinks the Paladin class order hall was a merger was all the factions, when it wasn't. The new Silver Hand was an umbrella for the different factions.

It's like being British or American and saying I'm not British/American, I'm NATO. You're just gonna get a slap by someone for saying that.

What makes his thought completely pointless is that the Blood Knights fought in the defence of Zulzadar. Liadrin was the first Horde leader in those stupid Warfronts they did also. Some stable merged faction they've got going there.

[Holdodlig]

You know why delves worked? They have great rewards without being mandatory. Torghast and Islands had crap rewards but were still mandatory. Islands had poor gameplay because the content and the gameplay did not match at all (here is large open sandbox to explore with great variety in events! But you have to do it under time pressure and with a group). And Torghast was overnerfed and had no variety.
Which is my bigger issue with delves, the lack of variety. Earthworks, Kriegval's and Waterworks are the same place. Sinkole and Tal-Rethan, Underkeep and Spiral Weave, Mycomancer's and Fungal Folly. It's giving TBC when we had so many dungeons at release but they were effectively five dungeons in different variations. Love the new delves they are actually distinct.

I'd even say that Island didn't had a real direction and the same happened with Torghast when they decided to remove the infinite layer (and thus any form of progression tied to the game mode). Torghast also suffered from the "Same monsters, same environnement" sickness. When you had run Torghast 4 or 5 times, you were already sick of this. And it's a shame because some anima powers were really great.

Island had plenty of rewards, but they weren't intuitive too. When they added chests and increased the droprate, it became more popular. Also, the fact you could just pull and nuke made it somehow funnier than the "go kill a pack" routine and it sort of became a speedrun mode.

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https://x.com/AlterTimeSK/status/1900933189939421610

Probably just creating hype, but in a recent interview, when asked about his favourite expansion, Ion says Legion, but that he hopes to change before the WSS is over.

Is he talking about Midnight or TLT?

Imo that's just Legion hype they're building since we're going to revisit it at the end of the year. They are probably setting up for Remix Legion.

[Nymrohd]

I'd even say that Island didn't had a real direction and the same happened with Torghast when they decided to remove the infinite layer (and thus any form of progression tied to the game mode). Torghast also suffered from the "Same monsters, same environnement" sickness. When you had run Torghast 4 or 5 times, you were already sick of this. And it's a shame because some anima powers were really great.

Island had plenty of rewards, but they weren't intuitive too. When they added chests and increased the droprate, it became more popular. Also, the fact you could just pull and nuke made it somehow funnier than the "go kill a pack" routine and it sort of became a speedrun mode.

At the end of the day, longevity requires loot progression. Islands at the end had a ton of cosmetics tied to them, but the vast majority were completely random to get which is just not fun for anyone other than extreme completionists. For me Islands had the perfect content; beautiful sandbox areas that could be explored in multiple visits either as bite sized content or taking your time with a crazy variety of enemy mobs and events. Then that content was shackled with a gameplay mode that was the complete antithesis of the content, GOGOGO not just because of the community but because the gameplay itself forced it. Imo Island Expeditions only worked as pvp in the way they were delivered but given you had vastly better options for PvP (do assaults, pick up chests and you are conquest capped) why do them.

Delves have solid gear progression. A player who only does delves will be able to finish S2 with every slot either Hero 6/6 or Crafted Gilded. Solo players never had that before in WoW. Is the gameplay great though? Imo . . . no. T11 delves are easier than t8 delves were last season. There is little challenge left. Meanwhile the variety is just not there because they repeat themes too much. Which again makes no sense to me; reuse the dungeon and raid assets ffs. Make a delve based on the Priory or Ara'kara. Make one that is a different area of the Gallagio.

[Darkarath]

I hope that eventually they do a PvP Brawl with Island Expeditions.

They were very fun IMO, and pretty different from your typical PvP experience. A decent mix of PvE and PvP elements, which they abandoned completely

[Nymrohd]

I hope that eventually they do a PvP Brawl with Island Expeditions.

They were very fun IMO, and pretty different from your typical PvP experience. A decent mix of PvE and PvP elements, which they abandoned completely

I think the issue was that the balance favored avoiding pvp and focusing on who can grind Azerite most efficiently. But that was easy to solve with the least bit of tuning. And yeah it would make a fun Brawl. Plus it would allow people to complete a ton of achievements.

[Darkarath]

I think the issue was that the balance favored avoiding pvp and focusing on who can grind Azerite most efficiently. But that was easy to solve with the least bit of tuning. And yeah it would make a fun Brawl. Plus it would allow people to complete a ton of achievements.

Yeah, but even if they leave them as they were, it would be fine. If players want to focus on Azerite farm that's ok. Brawls will happen anyways. But I agree that some adjustments will probably be needed.

And yes, I need those achievements

Eventually I hope that they revisit Warfronts too. Make them another PvP Brawl or just let us queue alone.

[bardicbass616]

In-universe, it's been 15 years since we killed Arthas and left Northrend. If they want to bring back Order Halls, they can easily create new ones for any classes that don't already have a good fit and say that they were established during the time gap.

Though, personally... I think I'd prefer that they don't force them all into the current continent, and make it an evergreen feature instead. Give us a permanent home base that we go back to in every expansion for class storylines.

Same. If they’re supposed to be evergreen then they shouldn’t be confined to Northrend. They should spread throughout

[Jaggler]

Original Order Halls also weren't confined to the Broken Isles, they were spread throughout Azeroth, so I see no reason why future order halls would need to be set in Northrend/Quel'Thalas

[Cheezits]

Original Order Halls also weren't confined to the Broken Isles, they were spread throughout Azeroth, so I see no reason why future order halls would need to be set in Northrend/Quel'Thalas

Because Blizzard isn't going to update the old world solely for Order Halls.

The original Order Halls were either instanced or on the Broken Isles/Dalaran which was also on the Broken Isles. We could get more pocket realm zones but I don't think there will be any in EK/Kalimdor.

[Dragonborn]

If Ulduar ends up being the capital city for TLT, they could make the subsectors act like the Order Halls in Legion. The Keepers are already varied in theme that could correspond to different classes.

Odyn - Warrior
Thorim - Shaman
Freya - Druid
Tyr - Evoker, Paladin, Priest
Mimiron - Rogue, Mage
Hodir - Hunter, Shaman
Loken - Warlock
Yogg's Prison - Death Knight

Can't find anything for Monks and Demon Hunters but the whole thing's a stretch anyway so who cares

[bardicbass616]

Because Blizzard isn't going to update the old world solely for Order Halls.

The original Order Halls were either instanced or on the Broken Isles/Dalaran which was also on the Broken Isles. We could get more pocket realm zones but I don't think there will be any in EK/Kalimdor.

Nobody said they’re gonna update the old world for the sake of order halls. And ya, just like last time, they’ll probably be instanced.

I thought all of that was implied