The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Eldryth]

It has been proven otherwise though. We were told that it's calcified world soul essence. What you really mean is that you will disregard that piece of evidence until there is absolutely no room for doubt.

We also know even more conclusively that the Radiant Song is the Worldsoul, but that doesn't stop these "theories" from hinging on it actually being some external Light influence. It was never really a mystery (at least, not once we were able to see the story), and there's been no ambiguity there since launch.

The entire expansion started with us confirming it by getting Magni to commune with Azeroth. When he heard the Song himself, giving him the same message that everyone else is hearing, and recognized it as the same Azeroth he heard in Legion and BFA, that left pretty much no room for doubt (short of assuming that everything we knew about his power was a lie from the start, and he was communing with something else all along- but that falls apart quickly when you consider that he also used it to hear Argus).


Anyway, maybe there was a bigger different plan for Beledar initially. Given how much things seem to have changed when they shifted to the Saga, it wouldn't surprise me if the original plans for a self-contained TWW ended with a Light/Void conflict set entirely within Khaz Algar, with Beledar and the Arathi as the main sources of Light. But now that that conflict is getting a full expansion, and has moved to Quel'thalas... a role like that would be pretty redundant and unnecessary at this point. When we're having a full-blown Light/Void war on the surface, where the more established Light forces can take the stage and it's easy for the Naaru to just send more help, what would one more Naaru ship deep underground, far from the conflict, really add? It'd make sense if we assumed that 11.x would have initially been Renilash in Khaz Algar, not so much for a war on the opposite corner of the known world.

So maybe the Worldsoul crystals answer was something they came up with to tie up that mystery when they moved away from their original plans.

[Khaza-R]

This is what I have been saying since we got the 11.1 cinematic. Glad that we are finally on the same page.

Still hope to see the Rootlands in TLT though, but there is absolutely nothing that points to it in 11.2.

I am hoping rootlands isn't just some sloppy 11.2.7 epilogue mini-zone where they handwave the black blood away and we recruit the Harronir despite really knowing nothing about them and probably never revisiting anything about them again.

[Jolly Roger]

ok so if metzen did make tww into three expansions that means the new class would be essentially what we got now with the "tank shaman" in follower dungeons

[bruxx]

ok so if metzen did make tww into three expansions that means the new class would be essentially what we got now with the "tank shaman" in follower dungeons

I could see us getting some of the SoD extra roles in the form of specs for their respective classes, but I don't really see those as alternatives to a new class in terms of hype factor for selling an expansion

[Merryck]

You keep saying "The Beledar" but I'm pretty sure it's just "Beledar."

[Mecheon]

Do we need more confirmation for K'aresh in 11.2?

Not confirmed until we're actually in there, because going from an expansion about "Going underground and delving into mysterious ancient ruins and civilizations" to "We're going off into space for no good reason" is practically a jumping the shark moment. Xal's been our enemy in this expansion, not the Dark Heart, and that's the only link we have to K'aresh. Someone stole the Dark Heart, we don't know where they went, but we're running off to K'aresh rather than focusing on the very active problem to our own planet's world soul?

"Let's just ditch every storyline so we can half-ass Legion's end patch" is not a convincing story beat, and in Argus we had at least beaten back the Legion invasion to the point we attacked their home planet. We haven't had any interactions with K'aresh at all to make going there something we need to do, and given the other Lorewalking quests are either just a regular catch-up in the Arthas story or appear to be set-up for future stuff (The void elf storyline that isn't available yet is blatantly Midnight set up)

Frankly I see this as being set up for Midnight stuff where K'aresh would make a bit more sense given the whole void elf connection. Don't forget Dawn of the Infinite set the Dark Heart up as a future thing in 10.1.5, this could be doing the same and also as a "This is why Xal is de-powered enough for us to defeat her in 11.2" and not "We're immediately going to K'aresh next patch and leaving everything behind"

[allegrian]

I thing the Beledar is a rool of cool thing that they'll just ignore from now on.

[Cheezits]

But K'aresh is cooler than Emerald Dream 2 Danuser Boogaloo so yeah.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

I think it is K'aresh, I'd be very surprised if the Undermine Epilogue turns into a heel turn meme. I mean, it's the Warcraft Team but I'd be shocked at how ridiculous this expansion has been if that occurs.

Still really funny that Steve tried immediately after failing to do it in Shadowlands to try and spam everything into 1 expansion to try resetting to gain creative and artistic control over the franchise. What a mess.

[Cheezits]

I think it is K'aresh, I'd be very surprised if the Undermine Epilogue turns into a heel turn meme. I mean, it's the Warcraft Team but I'd be shocked at how ridiculous this expansion has been if that occurs.

Still really funny that Steve tried immediately after failing to do it in Shadowlands to try and spam everything into 1 expansion to try resetting to gain creative and artistic control over the franchise. What a mess.

I get the idea of Elun'ahir and Elune having a thing protecting Azeroth from the Titans, or at least helping her (with a price: black blood can use the roots), is nice. However it's way too soon to do that after 10.2 and I really don't get what they were thinking.

[Illuminance]

With some of these predictions about shaping the plot/"salvaging" TWW, I'm wondering what the likelihood is of any significant changes to the overall lore direction. Some events that could affect the writing:

Metzen came back from his 2016 retirement in 2022, and then officially as creative director in September 2023
Danuser gone in November 2023
Golden was laid off in January 2024
Some lore historians laid off in March 2024

TWW beta was around June 2024, but I think it's safe to assume the story of the expansion was largely done, or at the minimum 11.0-11.1 had been completed already
Metzen had an interview in August 2024 (right around TWW release) talking about the saga, and how he was settling into the company and getting to know the new team

At this point, I don't really see much of Metzen's influence on the story. The Worldsoul Saga seems grounded in typical Warcraft lore concepts, but the characterization isn't reminiscent of his influence for better or worse. Thrall (who always appeared to be a mirror of Metzen himself) is just sitting on the sidelines, and that's just one example among many.

The changing WoW team composition might just be a result of Microsoft/ActBlizz cutting costs, or it could be a sign that the lore will actually shift away from the 2016-2023 era and towards something else.

[Joshuaj]

But K'aresh is cooler than Emerald Dream 2 Danuser Boogaloo so yeah.

I don't mean to be that guy, but we don't actually know if the Rootlands was originally planned to be 11.2 lol.

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That was something we all assumed as the story focused on the Harranir a lot. However, we also know certain plots exist in TWW which will expand throughout the entire Worldsoul Saga. It's entirely possible the Harranir stuff is one of those plots.

[Hitei]

At this point, I don't really see much of Metzen's influence on the story. The Worldsoul Saga seems grounded in typical Warcraft lore concepts, but the characterization isn't reminiscent of his influence for better or worse. Thrall (who always appeared to be a mirror of Metzen himself) is just sitting on the sidelines, and that's just one example among many.

It's very reminiscent of his influence. People just tunnel vision Wrath and Cata and somehow forget that Metzen also did MoP. Anduin, one of his favorite characters, has been doing the exact same thing re: Light that Thrall did with the Elements. Metzen loves having Brann running around and he loves paladin/light stuff, and goblins, and dwarves and corrupted insect races, etc.

Thrall is sidelined because he is a relatively minor character post "world shaman" and when not dealing directly with Horde (read; Orc) issues.

[Khaza-R]

I don't mean to be that guy, but we don't actually know if the Rootlands was originally planned to be 11.2 lol.

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That was something we all assumed as the story focused on the Harranir a lot. However, we also know certain plots exist in TWW which will expand throughout the entire Worldsoul Saga. It's entirely possible the Harranir stuff is one of those plots.

Agreed. I don't think rootlands was intended to be the endzone of TWW at all. People just assume that because it was datamined but didn't end up in the base expansion. I think Azh'Kahet was always the endzone of TWW, the Suramar of this expansion if you will, and rootlands was probably just meant to be another leveling zone.

[Joshuaj]

Agreed. I don't think rootlands was intended to be the endzone of TWW at all. People just assume that because it was datamined but didn't end up in the base expansion. I think Azh'Kahet was always the endzone of TWW, the Suramar of this expansion if you will, and rootlands was probably just meant to be another leveling zone.

I think Blizzard initially planned it for the launch, but they probably scrapped it early so it could be the focus of a later plot (Likely related to Eonar's plot in TLT, as Elun'ahir seemingly traces back to the Titans and Elune, and ngl...that just works).

Though, if the "Rootlands" are still planned for 11.2, then cool. But, if not, then it's fine. I like to think there was an OG plan for the black blood to corrupt Elun'ahir's roots all the way to the Worldcore, but like...that may or may not be the case. Heck, it was probably never planned and I'm just assuming lol. We don’t know.

What we DO know is that "Goblinraid" and "Etherealraid" were datamined pretty early in TWW's lifespan, meaning they were at least being focused on for quite a bit now, which is good.

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Now, we just have to see if Etherealraid is relating to either K'aresh, or the "Rootlands". My HOPE was that we'd go to the Worldcore from the "Rootlands" in 11.2, but now? Idk. K'aresh might be the most likely option at this rate, and if that's the case, then whatever, K'aresh is a place I wanted to see for a while now, so I wouldn't be mad. Tho, I would be confused as to why TWW is called that...if it's gonna end off world lol. Tho, they COULD pull a fast one on us, and have us not only explore K'aresh, but also enter it's shattered subterranean depths in the raid as well. I'm just saying...it would fit.

[KyleEverett]

I still think if we go to K'aresh as our main zone in 11.2 I'll feel this expansion was a thematic failure.

There's no plot reason for our characters to want to go to K'aresh yet. The Ethereals having the dark heart is better than Xal'atath if they aren't working together. The only way they'd be a threat to us is if they attack Azeroth with it, and why would they attack anything other than the World Soul? That to me says Rootlands. Maybe K'aresh as a back drop to the final boss fight, but as a whole zone? Please no.

Blizzard promised us more connection to the story patch to patch but we haven't gotten any prologue to 11.2 and regardless of which way it goes, Legacy of Arathor doesn't feel like a prologue for 11.2.

[shooketh]

Long time lurker, first time poster - I do enjoy what some of you post on here, but I'll get straight to the point - wall of text incoming

TWW, story wise, is just as boring as Dragonflight. It follows the exact same sappy, cheesy, safe, bland, boring, sanitized formula as Dragonflight. Everything that made WoW characters or races unique is being sanded down to avoid any potential controversy coming from the overly sensitive modern audience, that doesn't really even exist, except on twitter and various other small corners of the internet.

Every character which is not a clear antagonist now falls into the same mold and ideological paradigm - morally righteous, apologetic, soft, sensitive, sentimental, tolerant, and they feel more like vessels for the writers to practice moral grandstanding on players rather than fleshed out characters with their own beliefs, traits, personalities, grievances, prejudices and part of a fictional world shaped by wars and conflict. Cheap virtue signaling at every step, gone is the era of strong, unique, resolute characters with unwavering conviction. Power of friendship, councils (even Undermine ends with a council), let's all forget the past and all the deep hatreds that run between these characters or races and everything that made them stand out (hello Forsaken!) and all their differences and just write everyone the same while holding hands around the giant bonfire as we all must 'do better'.

It's boring. It's played out. It's not Warcraft. Who finds this stuff appealing? Who are they even writing for at this point? Themselves and their orbiters on twitter? Fine, but if they continue, then they'll be only ones left interested in this giant, boring soap opera.

Also, does anyone here actually like Faerin? I'll be honest I didn't have any big issues with her until 11.1.7 was revealed (even though Anduin could've has asked, you know, Velen, his buddy, for help regarding his connection to the light, but for some reason only Faerin, this character that seemingly comes out of nowhere and which apparently has deep lore implications, could do it), when for some reason she shows up in Arathi Highlands just so Danath can bend a knee to her. Are you kidding me? Danath? Danath TROLLBANE? This grizzled out war veteran is suddenly doing a 180 on his character and many of the things he stands for because of a newly introduced, morally righteous Mary Sue who can do no wrong and is also missing one arm but also leads an army against the Nerubians but also has the time to run an orphanage and read children's stories and is also able to magically solve everyone's problems but is also able to get involved in issues that are out of her scope or topics she knows little or nothing about and make old, established characters do a 180 on their beliefs? Come on.

We need to stop dancing around these issues and put the blame where it lies, if we want things to get better.

Who writes this stuff? And for who? Players pointed out in advance how Faerin would be the driving force behind some of the worst writing to come and they were all dismissed as racists or sexists (unfortunately, some of them really were). Well, here we are now, close to 11.1.7, and the players were proven right, because from the moment she was revealed, most people knew what was coming. She will be the morally righteous character who can do no wrong and lecture the 'problematic' ones about how bad they or their actions/beliefs are and how she's just so good and perfect at everything. And let's not forget that this is Blizzard, by the way. This cheap corporate tactic of slapping as many criticism shields on a character is as old as time. Don't tell me for a second that the various aspects of her appeareance were not a deliberate choice by Blizzard so any criticism for the awful writing can be dismissed as cheap -isms. They don't really add anything otherwise. And they're all conveniently piled onto this one single character.

Rant over. So far I'm very disillusioned with this direction. We were promised by Metzen a return to what made Warcraft great, a return to the rule of cool, but so far it's still Dragonflight with another skin, equally boring and sappy. Also, what happened to the old concept of 'show, don't tell'?
This isn't Warcraft, and it's no wonder that each cinematic, each trailer, each storyline has less and less views and general interest than the previous one because they're writing for an audience that simply doesn't exist. This style of writing is clearly not for Warcraft fans. Everyone was using Danuser as the scapegoat for the terrible writing, but it seems that the issue runs much more deeper than that. The questions is - who is to blame? Who is writing this stuff and at whose direction, and is it even fixable at this point? Or is this what Warcraft will be going forward?

It's really sad that it's far more exciting to speculate, and I've read more cool ideas from everyday players, than to follow whatever Blizzard is currently writing.

Anyway, what are your thoughts?

[Enrif]

It has been proven otherwise though. We were told that it's calcified world soul essence. What you really mean is that you will disregard that piece of evidence until there is absolutely no room for doubt.

Yes, we were told. But there is a thing called "show don't tell", and we were shown that Beledar is a Light Crystal, that turns to Void and back.

[Nymrohd]

Yes, we were told. But there is a thing called "show don't tell", and we were shown that Beledar is a Light Crystal, that turns to Void and back.

And the original world soul lore has them be Light/Void things

[Joshuaj]

And the original world soul lore has them be Light/Void things

...What? Are you talking about the clouds of Light that went throughout the Dark Beyond in Chronicle? Cause I think that only applied to the Naaru lol.

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What Chronicle states regarding everything:

Light shards went throughout the Dark Beyond and suffused the matter of myriad worlds with the spark of Life.

Clouds of Light gathered and created entities of great power and potential. Among these entities were the Naaru.

Worldsouls came into the Universe and formed worlds around them. Overtime, these entities would become the Titans. Based off the wording, you COULD argue the Worldsouls are Light clouds, but you can also argue otherwise. I like to assume the Worldsouls DO have Light in them initially, but that's it. This is assuming Chronicle ain't wrong ofc (which, based off what we currently know, it isn't in a lot of things, but it is in a lot of other things, tho it being wrong is mostly due to the Titans hiding information. This ain't the fault of the person writing Chronicle in-universe btw. They're just basing their information off Titan documentations and whatnot).