The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Sondrelk]

Why should we have Stratholme in Midnight when we will get the Scourge Remnants in TLT?

Because Stratholme is the more iconic location, with more obvious potential for content.
Scourge remnants in TLT is an obvious choice for extra content. But outside revisiting ICC, there isn't really a whole lot of places that are obvious candidates for a Scourge nostalgia raid. Lots of places that might work for dungeons or delves. But unless you go for a full Naxxramas or ICC wholesale revisit, there isn't anywhere I can think of that works as well.

In short: Midnight is ironically the expansion with more obvious places to be upscaled to a full Scourge raid if they choose to do so. Whereas with TLT its probably easier to reuse Zul'drak. Utgarde pinnacle. Or something Old God related.

[Lady Atia]

Because Stratholme is the more iconic location, with more obvious potential for content.
Scourge remnants in TLT is an obvious choice for extra content. But outside revisiting ICC, there isn't really a whole lot of places that are obvious candidates for a Scourge nostalgia raid. Lots of places that might work for dungeons or delves. But unless you go for a full Naxxramas or ICC wholesale revisit, there isn't anywhere I can think of that works as well.

In short: Midnight is ironically the expansion with more obvious places to be upscaled to a full Scourge raid if they choose to do so. Whereas with TLT its probably easier to reuse Zul'drak. Utgarde pinnacle. Or something Old God related.

I mean, Stratholme is still in Lordaeron and NOT QT .... they can easily safe that as another location down the line when we actually revamp EK's.

[Cheezits]

In short: Midnight is ironically the expansion with more obvious places to be upscaled to a full Scourge raid if they choose to do so. Whereas with TLT its probably easier to reuse Zul'drak. Utgarde pinnacle. Or something Old God related.

Zul'drak is Scourge clay at this point. I cannot see it being a Vrykul or Titan raid, and the possibility of Old God shit after TWW is low.

Couple that with the high possibility of a troll raid in Midnight and I don't think Zul'drak will be a raid at all. I don't actually know what they will do, hence the crazy theories.

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Why should we have Stratholme in Midnight when we will get the Scourge Remnants in TLT?

Because it would advance the Forsaken story (ESPECIALLY Calia's), be a cool nostalgia thing, and also provide a much needed change up from elf and Amani zones. I would much prefer a Stratholme-tied zone at launch than a random Naga whirlpool land or Quel'danas being turned into its own Broken Shore thing.

K'aresh is definitely on the table (unless it's TWW) but I can't see it being launch. There will need to be four varied zones just like TWW launch (Ringing Deeps had kobolds and Machine Speaker culture to diversify from Dorne) and Ghostlands/Eversong/Queldanas/Amani wont cut it.

[Xilurm]

Just found out that Reznik wasn't voiced because the VA was one of the VA's that went on a strike against AI in voice acting. So instead of recasting him, Blizz just left the character unvoiced. Pretty cool of Blizzard to do that.

[Ersula]

I mean, Stratholme is still in Lordaeron and NOT QT .... they can easily safe that as another location down the line when we actually revamp EK's.

Interesting detail about that is that during Warcraft 3, the Alliance was essentially considered one kingdom (Lordaeron) the devs were treating the former kingdoms as cities within it: Turalyon referred to the new Alliance as "The Alliance of Lordaeron" in Warcraft 2 & if you look closely, that's why Stratholme and Dalaran both have Lordaeron flags in Warcraft 3 cutscenes. Stratholme & Andorhol would have been considered their own kingdoms in WoW if they had survived. Which makes sense considering they were about the same size as Lordaeron, Stormwind & Dalaran etc.

This is pretty much why a kingdom in WoW is basically just a city and only several yards away from other kingdoms.

So technically Quel Thalas was part of Lordaeron for a while.

[huth]

Interesting detail about that is that during Warcraft 3, the Alliance was essentially considered one kingdom (Lordaeron) the devs were treating the former kingdoms as cities within it: Turalyon referred to the new Alliance as "The Alliance of Lordaeron" in Warcraft 2 & if you look closely, that's why Stratholme and Dalaran both have Lordaeron flags in Warcraft 3 cutscenes. Stratholme & Andorhol would have been considered their own kingdoms in WoW if they had survived. Which makes sense considering they were about the same size as Lordaeron, Stormwind & Dalaran etc.

This is pretty much why a kingdom in WoW is basically just a city and only several yards away from other kingdoms.

So technically Quel Thalas was part of Lordaeron for a while.

That's not even close to accurate. Stratholme and Andorhol were a part of the Kingdom of Lordaeron, not the Alliance of Lordaeron (which technically also included Stormwind) that had mostly fallen apart by WC3. The closest existing kingdom was Gilneas since Alterac fell in the second war and Stromgarde was only really brought back later (Dalaran is not a kingdom).

Stormwind doesn't just consist of Stormwind City, either.

[Viridiel]

Lordaeron is always going to be a complicated topic considering it refers to four different things: a continent, a kingdom, a city, and an alliance. Quel'Thalas is part of the continent of Lordaeron (it's the entire northern part of the Eastern Kingdoms) and its residents were made part of the Alliance of Lordaeron alongside the dwarves and the seven human kingdoms (despite many not living on the continent), but it's entirely separate from the kingdom and obviously its capital city. Quel'Thalas predates the Kingdom of Lordaeron.

That said, Stratholme is right next to Deatholme and I always found it odd that there's very little connection between them. I think we'll either wipe Deatholme off the map and help to restore/replace Thas'alah (very reminiscent of the Arcan'dor storyline) or Stratholme and Deatholme will sprawl to meet each other and form a larger Scourge citadel. I find the latter unlikely given the current state of Stratholme (overall very quiet with some mysterious activity deep inside), but we're probably due for the Scourge to suddenly pop up and run rampant to take us into the Last Titan.

[Worldshaper]

Interesting that Blizzard chose to use Light/Shadow Beledar as their background image for the new Heavenly Regalia shop set. And that the description speaks of Light and Shadow, when the sets look more Sun and Moon inspired.

Sure, the moon sometimes represents dankness, the night, etc. But not Shadow. The set definitely looks all silvery and Elune-inspired, not "the Void".

The set does feature a sort of crystal on it, and with the framing of Hallowfall, the Beledar, and Light/Shadow... I wonder.

Could there be a connection?

For example, and I'm just spitballing here, could there be a civilization that travels the stars, using vessels like the Beledar? Not naaru per se, but if we took the concept of a naaru and expanded on it?

For example, Elune and Xal'atath could both be of this mysterious people. Some kind of Light/Shadow-aligned celestial caretakers of sorts.

Where one chose to protect and the other seeks to destroy.

[Ersula]

That's not even close to accurate. Stratholme and Andorhol were a part of the Kingdom of Lordaeron, not the Alliance of Lordaeron (which technically also included Stormwind) that had mostly fallen apart by WC3. The closest existing kingdom was Gilneas since Alterac fell in the second war and Stromgarde was only really brought back later (Dalaran is not a kingdom).

Stormwind doesn't just consist of Stormwind City, either.

Dalaran is explicitly a kingdom. It's literally of the "7 Great Human Kingdoms."

This situation is caused by both the concept of these kingdoms is subjective & mailable before they were actually mapped out in WoW, essentially being a retcon. The only way Dalaran flying Lordaeron flags makes sense is that they were all considered Lordaeron, which makes sense because the original Lordaeron becomes the capital. It's a New york city / new york state situation.

What doesn't make is the seat of three separate grand & ancient human kingdoms all have capitals within a five minute walk of each other.

[Nymrohd]

Interesting that Blizzard chose to use Light/Shadow Beledar as their background image for the new Heavenly Regalia shop set. And that the description speaks of Light and Shadow, when the sets look more Sun and Moon inspired.

Sure, the moon sometimes represents dankness, the night, etc. But not Shadow. The set definitely looks all silvery and Elune-inspired, not "the Void".

The set does feature a sort of crystal on it, and with the framing of Hallowfall, the Beledar, and Light/Shadow... I wonder.

Could there be a connection?

For example, and I'm just spitballing here, could there be a civilization that travels the stars, using vessels like the Beledar? Not naaru per se, but if we took the concept of a naaru and expanded on it?

For example, Elune and Xal'atath could both be of this mysterious people. Some kind of Light/Shadow-aligned celestial caretakers of sorts.

Where one chose to protect and the other seeks to destroy.

No, Heavenly Regalia are a real world reference. These are Venetian Masquarade Masks. Should have been released two weeks ago to match the carnival but hey.

[Worldshaper]

No, Heavenly Regalia are a real world reference.

Of what? /10char

[Nymrohd]

Of what? /10char

Check previous post.
https://www.google.com/search?client...h=751&dpr=1.71

[Enrif]

The Goblins were not that important in this expansion either in the grand scheme. B-list enemies at best, and us going to Undermine had very flimsy justification beyond the meta reason of it being really cool if we went to Undermine.
I could easily see something similar for the Scourge in Midnight as an example. They are mostly there alongside random necromancers who swear fealty to Xal'atath. And once we get to 12.1 or whatever, we need to help cleanse Stratholme in order to remove one side of the overall conflict in EK.

Very flimsy justification that mostly boils down to it being really cool if we had a raid in Stratholme.

We have to see who or what the side enemies are for midnight. Ethereals, Forest Trolls, Naga and Void/Old God Minions are the most likely, with undead being rather small side enemies at best, like the kobold/kobyss.

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Void fatigue is going to be a real issue in Midnight though. Especially since the 11.2 is likely to be void-themed regardless if its rootlands, ethereals, beledar, etc.

I can definitely see them trying to break it up with the Scourge or Scarlets or perhaps a mix of the two. It also maybe sets the stage for new goals for both factions in Northrend. So its not like the story has to be totally isolated to Midnight.

We have to see what the make up of the enemies will be for Midnight. With Ethereals, Forest Trolls, Naga and Void/Old God Minions, we might have not the same issue of Legions "all green" fatigue.

but if i would have to choose between scarlets and scourge, i would rather have scarlet in Midnight, and scourge in TLT. Scarlets, who are still worshipping the light have a good reason to interfere in midnight, might be a appetizer for avaloren, and gives us the chance to fight void and light in the same expansion.

Scourge, for TLT i could see working as a theme for the likely Azjol-Nerub zone. helping the nerubians reclaim it from the scourge that might still be down there.

[Joshuaj]

Interesting that Blizzard chose to use Light/Shadow Beledar as their background image for the new Heavenly Regalia shop set. And that the description speaks of Light and Shadow, when the sets look more Sun and Moon inspired.

Sure, the moon sometimes represents dankness, the night, etc. But not Shadow. The set definitely looks all silvery and Elune-inspired, not "the Void".

The set does feature a sort of crystal on it, and with the framing of Hallowfall, the Beledar, and Light/Shadow... I wonder.

Could there be a connection?

For example, and I'm just spitballing here, could there be a civilization that travels the stars, using vessels like the Beledar? Not naaru per se, but if we took the concept of a naaru and expanded on it?

For example, Elune and Xal'atath could both be of this mysterious people. Some kind of Light/Shadow-aligned celestial caretakers of sorts.

Where one chose to protect and the other seeks to destroy.

Not Elune inspired at all. It's just based on a real world ordeal. In WoW, assuming it ever has lore, it MIGHT be Night Elf and Tauren based, but idk. Assuming it has an in-universe explanation tho, I think it'll just be Arathi Empire based.

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Based off what we know, 2 Sagas are likely to come after the Worldsoul Saga:

1. Anarchy Saga with Order Vs Disorder (Like actual "Fel Lords", not just the Legion) with an Outland revamp + Xoroth, Rancora, and Nathreza (1 expac), The Order Realm + Zereth Ordus (1 expac), and The Nether's Depths + Zereth Tumult (1 expac). This is what I want. But I wouldn't be shocked if this doesn't happen. Besides, we've already seen the Demons in a pretty massive extent, and I'm not sure us going DEEP into the Nether or seeing another Zereth is all too necessary, regardless of how cool I think it'll be.

And if Fel Lords do exist, they'd have to be unique, as WoW already has many references to the Chaos Gods from 40k with other powers beyond Disorder (Like Maldraxxus having Nurgle-esc references, the Void possibly having Tzeentch references with K'aresh or so, Disorder having Sayaad and personal "BDSM" areas which references Slaanesh, and the Legion being ruled by Sargeras and having Fel Lord demons, Wrath Guards and Wrath Lords, etc referencing Khorne in its own way, even if Sargeras is a fallen Order Lord. Tho, funny enough, Sargeras turning to Fel and becoming the strongest entity of Disorder and essentially becoming a "Disorder Lord" does fit with the Chaos God stuff from 40k lol). So, yeah, unless possible "Disorder Lords" exist in the sense that they're the originators of the demons, and that they're the greatest extent of anarchy in the Nether ever, maybe they're not necessary. Ik SL implied there might be a pantheon for each force, it's also just as likely that Disorder is just that, Disorder. At best, the Demons are ruled by a representative or greater demonic badass (Like an actual anarchist group), or there is an originator Demon that's as powerful as a Titan but isn't orderly or so (Which is possible, as, again, the Nether ain't all that explored yet, but idk), but that's it. Sargeras taking over and essentially becoming a "Disorder Lord" himself is honestly pretty cool, and it fits both the Khorne and Unicron vibes Blizzard was going for with the character.

Or 2. A Discovery Saga with Avaloren and whatnot. This will give us the Arathi Empire, new massive lands to explore on Azeroth, new types of Dragons, Titanforged "heretics", etc. This saga could be full on fantastical without going too far or too low in the cosmic and grounded stuff. Also, the Arathi Empire's capital COULD end up being WoW's version of Ishguard, cause why tf not ya know? This is most likely to happen, as everything in the Worldsoul Saga is seemingly building up to it, and ngl, I'm excited for this, like I'm REALLY excited for this.

[Gurahk]

We have to see what the make up of the enemies will be for Midnight. With Ethereals, Forest Trolls, Naga and Void/Old God Minions, we might have not the same issue of Legions "all green" fatigue.

You mean.. Like how Legion did it?

[Joshuaj]

We have to see who or what the side enemies are for midnight. Ethereals, Forest Trolls, Naga and Void/Old God Minions are the most likely, with undead being rather small side enemies at best, like the kobold/kobyss.

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We have to see what the make up of the enemies will be for Midnight. With Ethereals, Forest Trolls, Naga and Void/Old God Minions, we might have not the same issue of Legions "all green" fatigue.

but if i would have to choose between scarlets and scourge, i would rather have scarlet in Midnight, and scourge in TLT. Scarlets, who are still worshipping the light have a good reason to interfere in midnight, might be a appetizer for avaloren, and gives us the chance to fight void and light in the same expansion.

Scourge, for TLT i could see working as a theme for the likely Azjol-Nerub zone. helping the nerubians reclaim it from the scourge that might still be down there.

I always see this, but the Legion was a bit more than just Fel Green, despite the Fel being Disorders most common look. Hellfire and Shadow magics exist with the Legion, Demons and Legion Worlds can look Red/Orange and Purple (Implied that Xoroth is Red and Orange, and Nathreza is Purple based on the Antorus portals), the heart of Antorus is all Red, Sargeras' true form is Orange and Red, and a ton of Demons have taken different types of colors before, with KJ, Hakkar, etc looking Red and Orange at points.

[Enrif]

You mean.. Like how Legion did it?

I always see this, but the Legion was a bit more than just Fel Green, despite the Fel being Disorders most common look. Hellfire and Shadow magics exist with the Legion, Demons and Legion Worlds can look Red/Orange and Purple (Implied that Xoroth is Red and Orange, and Nathreza is Purple based on the Antorus portals), the heart of Antorus is all Red, Sargeras' true form is Orange and Red, and a ton of Demons have taken different types of colors before, with KJ, Hakkar, etc looking Red and Orange at points.

i didn't suffered from the "green fatigue". But other people did. And i can see why. But yeah, Legion was actually quite varied if people are honest. Just looking at the raids: Emerald Nightmare (mostly red), Nighthold (mostly purple), Trial of Valor (Gold and blue/black), Tomb of Sargeras (Green, grey, purple,blue), Antorus (green and red)

[Khaza-R]

Personally I didn't suffer from "fel fatigue" either but I know it was a fairly common criticism just like orc fatigue was in WoD

I think there are some themes that players simply have a lower threshold of tolerance for. Obviously that varies greatly from person to person. But I can see why the combo of HFC, Broken Shore and 2/3rds of Argus being very desolate and depressing made some people tired of the theme by the end of Legon. At the same time though, I think this was something the devs learned in the process of making Legion. Because we really haven't seen it again and its something they seem to try and actively avoid

[Worldshaper]

Check previous post.
https://www.google.com/search?client...h=751&dpr=1.71

Not sure I follow... ?

Like 95% of WoW is "based on real world" imagery if you want to take it that far. From the roman aqueducts of the Dragon Isles to the iconic lion emblem of Stormwind.

[Sondrelk]

Personally I really remember suffering from Fel Fatigue in Legion. Running around in the Broken Shoregetting really sick of the Fel themes, only to then go to Argus where two of the three mini zones were similar green and black hellscapes.
If it wasnt for Eredath being Void themed I probably would have gone insane.

I can absolutely see Void fatigue becoming an issue in Midnight if they don't properly portion it out. Though I doubt it could ever get as bad as it did in Legion, what with giant subzones of the same green and black, and then having both 7.2 and 7.3 be even more Fel.

So long as Midnight doesnt have us go to a Void infested Draenei area for 12.1, and then K'aresh for 12.2, we should be good. K'aresh possibly heavily focusing on Ecodomes would also help.

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i didn't suffered from the "green fatigue". But other people did. And i can see why. But yeah, Legion was actually quite varied if people are honest. Just looking at the raids: Emerald Nightmare (mostly red), Nighthold (mostly purple), Trial of Valor (Gold and blue/black), Tomb of Sargeras (Green, grey, purple,blue), Antorus (green and red)

The raids were varied. The zones were not. And that is where you spent most of your time.