The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Joshuaj]

i didn't suffered from the "green fatigue". But other people did. And i can see why. But yeah, Legion was actually quite varied if people are honest. Just looking at the raids: Emerald Nightmare (mostly red), Nighthold (mostly purple), Trial of Valor (Gold and blue/black), Tomb of Sargeras (Green, grey, purple,blue), Antorus (green and red)

The only raid that's full on Demonic here is Antorus, but yeah, the expansion was totally varied.

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Do you guys think Disorder Lords are necessary or do you think it would work better if Disorder didn't have a "pantheon" or "Fel entities as strong as the Titans but hate eachother and are the originators of the demonic races", and simply worked off the mentality that demons did their thing, and occasionally worked in "groups" that functioned off the "greatest demon rules" mentality? Think similar to 40k in this sense.

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Cause I think for Disorder, the latter probably works. Don't really need Disorder Lords, especially since the lore seems to imply the Burning Legion was the greatest showcase of Disorder in the WoW Cosmology.

[Nymrohd]

I think fel fatigue was caused by Broken Shore being AWFUL

[Gurahk]

Half of Antorus was red, and that was the harder portion of the raid that you spent most of your time on.
If anything I'd say I got a night elf fatigue from Legion but people aren't ready to hear that yet.

[Joshuaj]

I think fel fatigue was caused by Broken Shore being AWFUL

This, tbh.

[Enrif]

Personally I really remember suffering from Fel Fatigue in Legion. Running around in the Broken Shoregetting really sick of the Fel themes, only to then go to Argus where two of the three mini zones were similar green and black hellscapes.
If it wasnt for Eredath being Void themed I probably would have gone insane.

I can absolutely see Void fatigue becoming an issue in Midnight if they don't properly portion it out. Though I doubt it could ever get as bad as it did in Legion, what with giant subzones of the same green and black, and then having both 7.2 and 7.3 be even more Fel.

So long as Midnight doesnt have us go to a Void infested Draenei area for 12.1, and then K'aresh for 12.2, we should be good. K'aresh possibly heavily focusing on Ecodomes would also help.

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The raids were varied. The zones were not. And that is where you spent most of your time.

since i'm not a raider, i spent most of my time in the zones. And the only green zones were broken shores and two on argus. All of it mini zone. Meanwhile we had a deep forest in Val'sharaj, the mountains of highmountain, the ruined and watery area of Azsuna, the vikin hills of stormheim, and the city zone of Suramar, and the fantasical zone of Mac'aree/Eredath.

Yeah, don't know. If you only spend time in the most recent zones, the fatigue might have come from that. But if you actually took all of legion in, the green zone is barely one full zone

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I think fel fatigue was caused by Broken Shore being AWFUL

yeah, that makes much more sense

[Cheezits]

I hope they never do "area infected by glowing bad stuff" ever again. It was barely in classic and I really like how its barely in TWW.

I hated the primalist areas.

[alex wolf]

The only raid that's full on Demonic here is Antorus, but yeah, the expansion was totally varied.

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Do you guys think Disorder Lords are necessary or do you think it would work better if Disorder didn't have a "pantheon" or "Fel entities as strong as the Titans but hate eachother and are the originators of the demonic races", and simply worked off the mentality that demons did their thing, and occasionally worked in "groups" that functioned off the "greatest demon rules" mentality? Think similar to 40k in this sense.

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Cause I think for Disorder, the latter probably works. Don't really need Disorder Lords, especially since the lore seems to imply the Burning Legion was the greatest showcase of Disorder in the WoW Cosmology.

Disorder should be based primarily around voluntary association; ie beings working together because they get some benefit out of it which would usually mean a group of weaker demons working under a more powerful demon who leads them on their path to devour and conquer (like pirate crews for example)

Highlighting how the legion was a group of demons "ordered" in a twisted way by sargeras and why the legion was such a threat but isn't as much of an active concern now that sargeras is delt with

[Kiivar86]

I think fel fatigue was caused by Broken Shore being AWFUL

God was it ever. The Broken Shore patch was the second time ever I unsubbed from the game (first was WoD burning me the hell out).

[Nymrohd]

God was it ever. The Broken Shore patch was the second time ever I unsubbed from the game (first was WoD burning me the hell out).

I just used that patch to prep all the alts needed to get all the Mage Tower mogs.

My biggest disappointment with legion is still that they did not use that middle patch to make it clear how the Legion was a threat to the entirety of Azeroth. Instead of focusing on the Broken Shore, we should have had the pre-expansion Legion invasions be the focus. I mean we learn from missions that it rained infernals on Thunder Bluff while we were farming shards from the Paraxis so we can get a Tower run going on.

[Sondrelk]

I just used that patch to prep all the alts needed to get all the Mage Tower mogs.

My biggest disappointment with legion is still that they did not use that middle patch to make it clear how the Legion was a threat to the entirety of Azeroth. Instead of focusing on the Broken Shore, we should have had the pre-expansion Legion invasions be the focus. I mean we learn from missions that it rained infernals on Thunder Bluff while we were farming shards from the Paraxis so we can get a Tower run going on.

Legion is definitely an expansion that is lesser in hindsight. Knowing how much content we would start to get in future expansions. The Broken Shore is the kind of content that would fill a 0.7 patch nowadays, like Forbidden Reach or Siren Isle. But back then it was good enough to warrant a full major patch.

[Nymrohd]

Legion is definitely an expansion that is lesser in hindsight. Knowing how much content we would start to get in future expansions. The Broken Shore is the kind of content that would fill a 0.7 patch nowadays, like Forbidden Reach or Siren Isle. But back then it was good enough to warrant a full major patch.

I think Legion was just so crazily frontloaded that it rode on that all the way to Argus which was also beefy

[JDBlou]

Legion is definitely an expansion that is lesser in hindsight. Knowing how much content we would start to get in future expansions. The Broken Shore is the kind of content that would fill a 0.7 patch nowadays, like Forbidden Reach or Siren Isle. But back then it was good enough to warrant a full major patch.

I'd rather see it as the opposite. We've come such a long way with developer planning and content delivery that what would've been a .1 or .2 is now just a .0.5 or 0.7 patch.

[Sondrelk]

I think Legion was just so crazily frontloaded that it rode on that all the way to Argus which was also beefy

It's focus on Classes went well, all the way until Broken Shore as well. When the need for 12 unique questlines meant they didnt have time for an actual questline for the zone. And instead just had 8 different "find ten chests" type quests, which really brought the whole thing down. Especially when the patch was screaming for a storyline exploring Kil'jaeden, and really leaning into the raid itself like what we got with the Nighthold Insurrection storyline.

[Nymrohd]

Btw this expansion seems to have a serious issue with lag. I don't remember anything similar happening in the last few expansions to what happened early on in Isle of Dorn during the play or what happens every time someone does the World Boss in Undermine. Is it just poor optimization?

[Sondrelk]

I'd rather see it as the opposite. We've come such a long way with developer planning and content delivery that what would've been a .1 or .2 is now just a .0.5 or 0.7 patch.

Either way. There is definitely a lot of missed opportunities in Legion that could have been avoided, even just with it swapping places with BfA in terms of development.

[Nymrohd]

I'd rather see it as the opposite. We've come such a long way with developer planning and content delivery that what would've been a .1 or .2 is now just a .0.5 or 0.7 patch.

I don't think it is really so much the planning as much as it is a much, much larger team

[allegrian]

https://x.com/AlterTimeSK/status/1900933189939421610

Probably just creating hype, but in a recent interview, when asked about his favourite expansion, Ion says Legion, but that he hopes to change before the WSS is over.

Is he talking about Midnight or TLT?

Probably TWW /s

[Ersula]

Legion is definitely an expansion that is lesser in hindsight. Knowing how much content we would start to get in future expansions. The Broken Shore is the kind of content that would fill a 0.7 patch nowadays, like Forbidden Reach or Siren Isle. But back then it was good enough to warrant a full major patch.

I hope people understand they just put non seasonal content into a minor patch now, so there are more patches overall. If you compare 10.2 to 7.2, we got more patches but not more content. If Dragonflight was like Legion, we would have had Time Rifts & the Megadungeon in 10.2 instead of between seasons, and if Legion were like Dragonflight, class mounts & Broken Shore zone questing would have come out between Nighthold & Tomb instead of in 7.2 - Don't act like Dragonflight had more content than legion... it didn't. Trial of Valor, Kerazhan megadungeon, Mage Tower, microholidays, Invasions, if Forbidden reach counts as a new zone then the 7.1 update of Suramar does too.

It's cadence of updates is an improvement but its not a groundbreaking change.

Also Siren's Isle might be the most irrelevant zone ever made? In 2 or three weeks its going to be way less relevant than FR & ZK were by the end of the expansion - and way less cosmetics to farm.

[Sondrelk]

I hope people understand they just put non seasonal content into a minor patch now, so there are more patches overall. If you compare 10.2 to 7.2, we got more patches but not more content. If Dragonflight was like Legion, we would have had Time Rifts & the Megadungeon in 10.2 instead of between seasons, and if Legion were like Dragonflight, class mounts & Broken Shore zone questing would have come out between Nighthold & Tomb instead of in 7.2 - Don't act like Dragonflight had more content than legion... it didn't. Trial of Valor, Kerazhan megadungeon, Mage Tower, microholidays, Invasions, if Forbidden reach counts as a new zone then the 7.1 update of Suramar does too.

It's cadence of updates is an improvement but its not a groundbreaking change.

Also Siren's Isle might be the most irrelevant zone ever made? In 2 or three weeks its going to be way less relevant than FR & ZK were by the end of the expansion - and way less cosmetics to farm.

Not content then. But new locations for each area. Had Legion been made now, then there would have been more areas added for each new event. Whatever the elf island was going to be called would have been added in order to have a more substantial area for the major patch. Stuff like that.

[Xilurm]

Btw this expansion seems to have a serious issue with lag. I don't remember anything similar happening in the last few expansions to what happened early on in Isle of Dorn during the play or what happens every time someone does the World Boss in Undermine. Is it just poor optimization?

The world boss lag in Undermine can be pretty annoying. I thought it was just me at first.