The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Timester]

Eh, I think that's really oversimplifying it. Because it wasn't just one quest where he was portrayed as having more honorable qualties.

It's actually factual Wow dev history:

"So Garrosh was yours, huh? From beginning to end?

Not quite from beginning to end.

Cataclysm seemed like he was going in a different direction for a while there ...

He was.

He was? Tell us about that -- why he had that shift.

Miscommunication.

So Stonetalon ...

Me.

You did Stonetalon?

I did Stonetalon.

I didn't stick to that path with Garrosh. I didn't -- not everyone was on board. Not everyone got the memo as it were, as we were designing -- and that was my fault. Because when you're doing, when you're trying -- because I was actually trying to bring Garrosh around, and Stonetalon was going to be the first of that. Cataclysm was pretty crazy time for us.

You had so much to do.

We did quite a lot of work. So I feel like there was a little bit of miscommunication on my part that kind of led to Garrosh going down another, darker path. So there's an interesting tidbit for you.

It was interesting though, in the aspect of seeing that glimmer of what he could have been.

Well he was good at the other way. He did well at that. He was a good killer and plunderer and murderer."

https://www.engadget.com/2014-11-11-...e-azeroth.html

[huth]

Tirion, the one that lost the connection with the Light because he helped an orc (Eitrigg) and Knights of the Silver Hand "ripped" the Light out of him? A story older than Warcraft III?

And then defeated the Lich King by the Light suddenly remembering that they had a Paladin at the top of Icecrown and breaking him out with no real justification for why he didn't do it earlier.

[Timester]

Yes?
Him getting to wield the Ashbringer and be the leading force against the scourge/Lich king was great character development. Just years prior he was sitting in a decrepit shack in Plaguelands.

Look at that, just like Anduin in Hallowfall. Under why, it's like the same person (Metzen) wrote both stories.

[Khaza-R]

It's actually factual Wow dev history:

"So Garrosh was yours, huh? From beginning to end?

Not quite from beginning to end.

Cataclysm seemed like he was going in a different direction for a while there ...

He was.

He was? Tell us about that -- why he had that shift.

Miscommunication.

So Stonetalon ...

Me.

You did Stonetalon?

I did Stonetalon.

I didn't stick to that path with Garrosh. I didn't -- not everyone was on board. Not everyone got the memo as it were, as we were designing -- and that was my fault. Because when you're doing, when you're trying -- because I was actually trying to bring Garrosh around, and Stonetalon was going to be the first of that. Cataclysm was pretty crazy time for us.

You had so much to do.

We did quite a lot of work. So I feel like there was a little bit of miscommunication on my part that kind of led to Garrosh going down another, darker path. So there's an interesting tidbit for you.

It was interesting though, in the aspect of seeing that glimmer of what he could have been.

Well he was good at the other way. He did well at that. He was a good killer and plunderer and murderer."

https://www.engadget.com/2014-11-11-...e-azeroth.html

I am aware of the history. I am telling you it occurred more than in one quest.

I specifically mentioned MoP because he didn't even work on that expansion nor did he write the short story. It issue with multiple devs. And it effect more characters than just Garrosh.

[Timester]

And then defeated the Lich King by the Light suddenly remembering that they had a Paladin at the top of Icecrown and breaking him out with no real justification for why he didn't do it earlier.

No, huth, that's PEAK CINEMA, see? Not like today's WoW.

Joke apart, like you pointed, WoW story has been written exactly the same way every since the beginning, based on Role of Cool without much really thought on how reaching the Cool point.

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I specifically mentioned MoP because he didn't even work on that expansion nor did he write the short story. It issue with multiple devs. And it effect more characters than just Garrosh.

Yes, Team A and Team B. Cata and MoP were being worked at the same time.

[shooketh]

Look at that, just like Anduin in Hallowfall. Under why, it's like the same person (Metzen) wrote both stories.

I don't see the parallels. Tirion grew up to be a strong leader with conviction. Anduin is still an indecisive, soft spoken manbaby, despite losing his father (another great example of a strong, well written character in a position of leadership) and everything he went through, or his status.

The difference in how these 2 characters act, speak and are shown in game is night and day.

[Khaza-R]

Yes, Team A and Team B. Cata and MoP were being worked at the same time.

There's no such thing.

[Timester]

I don't see the parallels. Tirion grew up to be a strong leader with conviction. Anduin is still an indecisive, soft spoken manbaby, despite losing his father (another great example of a strong, well written character in a position of leadership) and everything he went through.

The difference in how these 2 characters act, speak and are shown in game is night and day.

Your bias is showing. Tirion lived on a fricking cave for years, even when everyone was dying outside that same cave with the Plague.

[Joshuaj]

Wrath also had a banger cinematic, one of the best in gaming in my opinion, nevermind WoW, still legendary to this day, great music and art direction, Tirion was awesome, Ulduar was awesome alongside the entire Stormpeaks/Titan questlines, and the Wrathgate cinematic is still remembered to this day.

Nothing from Dragonflight or TWW gets even close to those.

You know it's rough when more people remember the Forsaken plotline and the events of Ulduar than they do the Lich King himself LMAOOO

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I don't see the parallels. Tirion grew up to be a strong leader with conviction. Anduin is still an indecisive, soft spoken manbaby, despite losing his father (another great example of a strong, well written character in a position of leadership) and everything he went through, or his status.

The difference in how these 2 characters act, speak and are shown in game is night and day.

Tirion was never controlled by the Devil in Hell.

[shooketh]

How showing that something still exist is kill any hope?

Existed, is the correct word. Marran tried to reignite it and was immediately shut down and ostracized for it. It shows a clear intent that every time there's a potential for faction conflict, Jaina and Thrall will run to the rescue, imprison the dissenters, and make everyone shake hands.

What in the past were alliances of convenience, now they're full blown alliances, with everyone holding hands and promoting tolerance and acceptance, with complete disregard for the deep hatreds that should still run through them.

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Your bias is showing. Tirion lived on a fricking cave for years, even when everyone was dying outside that same cave with the Plague.

Not an argument. There is a clear difference in character between Tirion and Anduin. Tirion was an actual leader, strong, courageous, leading the main forces against the scourge and Lich King himself.
Anduin is still a soft spoken, indecisive manbaby, despite everything he went through. He also seemingly completely forgot about Stormwind and that he's supposed to be a leader himself. He's nothing compared to Tirion, and he's nothing compared to his father.

[Timester]

Existed, is the correct word. Marran tried to reignite it and was immediately shut down and ostracized for it. It shows a clear intent that every time there's a potential for faction conflict, Jaina and Thrall will run to the rescue, imprison the dissenters, and make everyone shake hands.

What in the past were alliances of convenience, now they're full blown alliances, with everyone holding hands and promoting tolerance and acceptance, with complete disregard for the deep hatreds that should still run through them.

Nope. Exist. As it's not even out and is a current lore story. It's something still being represented in-game years after the BfA.

Not an argument. There is a clear difference in character between Tirion and Anduin. Tirion was an actual leader, strong, courageous, leading the main forces against the scourge and Lich King himself.
Anduin is still a soft spoken, indecisive manbaby, despite everything he went through. He also seemingly completely forgot about Stormwind and that he's supposed to be a leader himself. He's nothing compared to Tirion, and he's nothing compared to his father.

You just repeated yourself ignoring factual lore tidbits. Check.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

It's in his name. He spent his entire lifetime fighting orcs and ogres, and even went through the dark portal to do it. He was an overseer of orcish internment camps. You can't wash these things away in a single patch. It's simply bad writing.

Beyond the dark portal (novel) is pretty clear that Trollbane isn’t a some super racist looking to slay orcs and ogres. He actively pushes his men not to want to fight the orcs, thinks Alleria’s quest to wipe them all out is wrong and come to even respect them when he fights deadeye.

Even before going through the dark portal he was a vet who no longer wanted to fight but was still willing to do what was needed the continuation of that was set up over a decade ago and isn’t bad writing.

[shooketh]

Nope. Exist. As it's not even out and is a current lore story. It's something still being represented in-game years after the BfA.



You just repeated yourself ignoring factual lore tidbits. Check.

What am I ignoring exactly? Tirion was a man with a mission despite losing his son and everything he went through. He turned into a true leader.
Anduin is still not decided whether he should be one or not. The difference is right there, it's night and day

Beyond the dark portal (novel) is pretty clear that Trollbane isn’t a some super racist

Maybe, but as someone who has been an overseer of orc internment camps, it's also out of character for him to suddenly become buddy buddy with orcs.

Anyway, we can argue here for days. I just don't see who this kind of writing is meant for - there is no reason for someone like Danath, with his history, to bend the knee to a young, inexperienced character. And this clearly does not resonate with a large audience, and can be seen in how often people engage with WoW's story nowadays or how much they care.

Spoiler, to show what I mean:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Gp-mvmAb...png&name=small

[Jolly Roger]

ok so is the rootlands a place that has a reasoning for us expecting it in a patch or is it just one of those spots casually mentioned twice in the game that the community is convinced we will see?
i am getting the same vibe as "lifelands/zereth vitae" from it so like a spot that was mentioned but lorewise not important yet

[Darkarath]

Beyond the dark portal (novel) is pretty clear that Trollbane isn’t a some super racist looking to slay orcs and ogres. He actively pushes his men not to want to fight the orcs, thinks Alleria’s quest to wipe them all out is wrong and come to even respect them when he fights deadeye.

Even before going through the dark portal he was a vet who no longer wanted to fight but was still willing to do what was needed the continuation of that was set up over a decade ago and isn’t bad writing.

Well said.

People don't seem to understand that WoW characters should be so sick of conflict by now that they would not even have the strenght or will to lift a sword. Those who still seek conflict within the Warcraft universe are actually well represented, because they are characters full of hate and resentment.

Any character with half a brain knows by now that Horde cannot survive without the Alliance and Alliance cannot survive without the Horde, and that a full scale war between both factions at this point would probably mean mutual destruction.

[Joshuaj]

ok so is the rootlands a place that has a reasoning for us expecting it in a patch or is it just one of those spots casually mentioned twice in the game that the community is convinced we will see?
i am getting the same vibe as "lifelands/zereth vitae" from it so like a spot that was mentioned but lorewise not important yet

We were told about the Harranir's home early in TWW, but that's it. Many of us assumed it would be linked to either the Black Blood plot, or the Goblin plot. Tho, at this rate, it seems like it's linked to neither plot. Heck, we'll likely not even see it in TWW.

[Dvalin]

We were told about the Harranir's home early in TWW, but that's it. Many of us assumed it would be linked to either the Black Blood plot, or the Goblin plot. Tho, at this rate, it seems like it's linked to neither plot. Heck, we'll likely not even see it in TWW.

Chances are they're 'guarding' the Worldsoul and that we'll continue that plot in TLT. What with the Coreway being in repair and all that.

[Joshuaj]

Tbh here, I'm a LITTLE upset by the idea of us not seeing it this expac, as TWW is the underground expac, and I'd love to see some unique Life-based Subterranean landscapes (Which would make it 100% different from what we saw at the Dream, which was more open, traditional fantasy Life-based stuff), but if we'll see it later on, then it's whatever.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Maybe, but as someone who has been an overseer of orc internment camps, it's also out of character for him to suddenly become buddy buddy with orcs.

he gave up command of the internment camps instantly so he could be back training active troops it’s not like he was ever there whipping orcs or the like. He was a vet who didn’t want to see more men die and was trying to teach them not to glorify war or personalize there hate for the orcs.

He’s like the picture perfect example of a disillusioned solider just in conflicts to look out for younger fool hardy ones and your link is just continuation of that with him contrasting with a younger brighter perspective.

[Timester]

What am I ignoring exactly? Tirion was a man with a mission despite losing his son and everything he went through. He turned into a true leader.
Anduin is still not decided whether he should be one or not. The difference is right there, it's night and day

Not the thread to show lorewise how wrong your statement is, since this is about TWW.