The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Joshuaj]

Chances are they're 'guarding' the Worldsoul and that we'll continue that plot in TLT. What with the Coreway being in repair and all that.

See, I get that, but I wanted THAT to be the plot of 11.2. Xal'atath ditches the Dark Heart and relies on the Black Blood, she uses the Black Blood to corrupt the roots of Elun'ahir, this leads to a Worldcore raid, etc. Imo, that just feels more...right, ya know?

But, it's fine if we don't get that.

[Timester]

he gave up command of the internment camps instantly so he could be back training active troops it’s not like he was ever there whipping out or the like. He was a vet who didn’t want to see more men die and was trying to teach them not to glorify war or personalize there hate for the orcs.

He’s like the picture perfect example of a disillusioned solider just in conflicts to look out for younger fool hardy ones and your link is just continuation of that with him contrasting with a younger brighter perspective.

Yep, Danath Trollbane in a nutshell. He didn't even wanted to be King, he was the last surviving Trollbane (until they created Marran in this xpac).

[Sondrelk]

ok so is the rootlands a place that has a reasoning for us expecting it in a patch or is it just one of those spots casually mentioned twice in the game that the community is convinced we will see?
i am getting the same vibe as "lifelands/zereth vitae" from it so like a spot that was mentioned but lorewise not important yet

It was on the development map. So we know it was at the point in development where they have planned for where to enter it and such. We can also see the place where we would likely enter it, and whose entrance is still absolutely useable. Similar to how the entrance to the Goblin section of the Ringing Deeps was plainly visible as a conspicous caved in entrance next to a flight path.

In terms of narrative, we have had a questline every single patch, bar the current one, where we follow Orweyna around as she tries to figure out what the deal with the Black Blood is. A substance whose purpose and origin are still unclear.
There is also of course the very pointed way the other Harranir return to their homeland with the obvious hook for a future story.

In general, all the storylines specifically centered on Khaz Algar are all pointed towards a combination of Black Blood, and the World Soul. The World Soul is something that could likely have been moved to TLT, which only leaves the Black Blood, which is the thing Orweyna specifically left her homeland to find a solution to, specifically because it is a massive problem with the roots in her home.
Combine this with the Rootlands, the rooted entrance, and earlier bits of lore like there having been a World Tree that was ripped out somewhere. We are led to believe that the Rootlands is where the Harranir originate, and that the Roots are the remaining bits of the old World tree, which have now been corrupted by the Black Blood, and which needs to be dealt with before we leave.

[Timester]

See, I get that, but I wanted THAT to be the plot of 11.2. Xal'atath ditches the Dark Heart and relies on the Black Blood, she uses the Black Blood to corrupt the roots of Elun'ahir, this leads to a Worldcore raid, etc. Imo, that just feels more...right, ya know?

But, it's fine if we don't get that.

Dark Heart would never be ditched, as it was planned in the previous xpac as a MacGuffin, it's even a prototype of the Dragon Soul.

[Sondrelk]

We were told about the Harranir's home early in TWW, but that's it. Many of us assumed it would be linked to either the Black Blood plot, or the Goblin plot. Tho, at this rate, it seems like it's linked to neither plot. Heck, we'll likely not even see it in TWW.

The Harranir are specifically linked to the Black Blood. Orweyna is specifically going around looking for people with experience on Black Blood in order to prevent it from corrupting her home.

[Joshuaj]

Dark Heart would never be ditched, as it was planned in the previous xpac as a MacGuffin, it's even a prototype of the Dragon Soul.

I mean, I never said it would be ditched in general, just that Xal'atath would be forced to ignore it and grow desperate.

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The Harranir are specifically linked to the Black Blood. Orweyna is specifically going around looking for people with experience on Black Blood in order to prevent it from corrupting her home.

If you read up a bit, I mention what I'd like to see for that plot

[shooketh]

he gave up command of the internment camps instantly so he could be back training active troops it’s not like he was ever there whipping out or the like. He was a vet who didn’t want to see more men die and was trying to teach them not to glorify war or personalize there hate for the orcs.

He’s like the picture perfect example of a disillusioned solider just in conflicts to look out for younger fool hardy ones and your link is just continuation of that with him contrasting with a younger brighter perspective.

What are you even talking about?

Read some of the stuff he said

Many years ago, my men and I followed the wizard Khadgar and the paladin Turalyon to this world. Our sole aim was to annihilate the orcs and their vile kin.

Orcs. It seems I've been fighting them all my life.
Twenty years ago we shattered the Horde and tore down the walls of their Hellfire Citadel. We drove the vile greenskins to the very brink! After that, other than a few skirmishes the broken orcs never again posed a threat to us.
Until now.

Him bending the knee to this new, inexperienced character with little to no knowledge of the issues at hand, making him do a 180 on many of his beliefs, is simply bad writing. It's as simple as that.

[Dvalin]

See, I get that, but I wanted THAT to be the plot of 11.2. Xal'atath ditches the Dark Heart and relies on the Black Blood, she uses the Black Blood to corrupt the roots of Elun'ahir, this leads to a Worldcore raid, etc. Imo, that just feels more...right, ya know?

But, it's fine if we don't get that.

Oh, I definitely was on the same line as you. But with the recent developer chat, it seems that TWW was expanded a lot to encompass the Saga. So, I'm okay if we'll return to it later, when it makes sense to do so.

Even though we, the players, are still in the unknown when it comes to the Ethereal agenda. So, very curious how that plot will develop.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

What are you even talking about?

Read some of the stuff he said.

I'm talking about the actual developed character in a novel and not just a few quotes grabbed from ingame where he has never been explored character wise until this very expan.

Him bending the knee to this new, inexperienced character with little to no knowledge of the issues at hand, making him do a 180 on many of his beliefs, is simply bad writing. It's as simple as that.

given that he’s not doing a 180, it’s more a problem with your bad understanding of the character then the writing.

[shooketh]

I'm talking about the actual developed character in a novel and not just a few quotes grabbed from ingame where he has never been explored character wise until this very expan.


given that he’s not doing a 180, it’s more a problem with your bad understanding of the character then the writing.

Damn, so the battle of Stromgarde and his presence in BFA didn't happen?

I'm really struggling to understand why you keep defending bad writing that clearly doesn't work, given that nobody seems to care about the story in TWW so far. And with how weak 11.1.7 is, that trend isn't going to change anytime soon.

It's fine if your want to portray a war veteran mellowing down because of his age or other factors. But this just feels cheap, rushed, sudden, heavy handed and ultimately unearned.

And this ties into the bigger problem with the overall writing, in that everyone just has to feel bad about what they did and that they now must do better. I am honestly sick and tired of these characters that do nothing but preach good morals to me. Because that's what it feels like. It genuinely feels like I'm constantly being preached to.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Damn, so the battle of Stromgarde and his presence in BFA didn't happen?

he has like all of 6 lines in BFA, he’s in no way a developed character there.

If you want to see what his character is actually about there are novels for that not just snatches of monologue designed to reflex one aspect.

[Black Rider]

Garrosh wasn't a risk, was a mess because Afrisiabi not talking with the rest of the team.

I don't agree with it.

[Timester]

I don't agree with it.

It wasn't an opinion, it is a well know WoW dev fact how messy Garrosh's writing and development was.

[shooketh]

he has like all of 6 lines in BFA, he’s in no way a developed character there.

If you want to see what his character is actually about there are novels for that not just snatches of monologue designed to reflex one aspect.

WHAT?? He's as old as time, how can you even say that by BFA he's not a developed character?? He's in WC2 !!!

Anyway, if your argument is that actually he's the opposite of how he's been portrayed so far, as a killer of hordes of orcs, taking pride in it too as seen from some of his dialogue, then it's pretty obvious that I'm going to ask for some proof of that. Post some paragraphs that describe him that way and some examples which showcase those qualities.

The idea in itself that this billion years old weathered war veteran which dealt with conflict, wars and political issues for all his life, even going as far as Outland, needed a young, inexperienced character, she herself having little to no familiarity with the conflict at hand to begin with, to make him aware of certain things or have a change of heart is just ridiculous. The only reason Faerin even shows up in this questline is so everyone around her can say how understanding and amazing and perfect she is and how she changed their lives. The literal definition of a Mary Sue. And the way she's designed and written, that will be her role going forward. It's just bad, stale, one-dimensional writing. And just because there are other Mary Sues in the game, or other examples of equally bad or even worse writing, that does not excuse this very, very poor questline.

[Dvalin]

Can we discuss that subject in another thread, maybe? Not sure if it has much to do with this thread. There's enough to be critical about, but regurgitating talking points from Youtube/Reddit doesn't really achieve much. For all its flaws, WoW (and its worldbuilding, as well as narrative sometimes) is still fun, diverse and enjoyable. Dragonflight and The War Within are both different enough from each other, too.

[Cheezits]

They neutered Warcraft's edge because the fanbase proved that the softer fans gathered post-Cata COULD NOT handle something like Teldrassil. People were freaking out like it happened IRL.

I think the fanbase has matured emotionally a little bit since then but people going as crazy as to say Horde BFA was promoting irl fascism and hate crimes? That's why. Removing Gallywix was still stupid though.

I'm going to guess that this is part of the reason they keep delaying the Titans Bad thing, especially if they made the Shadowlands, because it will eventually be shown that the player character was complicit in their crimes for a very long time.

[shooketh]

Not sure if it has much to do with this thread.

Well it's all pretty much related to the upcoming questline in 11.1.7 and TWW as a whole. We were promised a return to OG Warcraft, where we would all get hype for the story beats while waiting for the next cinematic, but instead it's just radio silence, and a palpable desire among players to just move past TWW entirely, because it's very, very boring.

I'm still not seeing the rule of cool. I'm still not seeing the return of 'show, don't tell'. It's the same boring, stale, sappy and overly preachy style of writing with the same issues that were pointed out again and again during the entirety of Dragonflight. And it looks like nothing has been learned from all that criticism.

How is it that the game can evolve on the gameplay side of things, but on the story side it's been consistently bad with 0 signs of improvement for who knows how many years now. What's the issue, and why isn't any action being taken to solve that? Obviously someone is at fault for it.

Anyway, for a trilogy that was sold on having deep and strong storytelling, so far this is a complete dud in my eyes. I get more excited speculating about things that could be, rather than reading the below average, boring stuff Blizzard is writing.

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They neutered Warcraft's edge because the fanbase proved that the softer fans gathered post-Cata COULD NOT handle something like Teldrassil. People were freaking out like it happened IRL..

I disagree. MoP had edge. So did WoD and Legion. That's post-Cata. WoD resonated with TONS of Warcraft fans. Its cinematic is the most viewed so far. After MoP, people were desperate for that old Warcraft back, that's why WoD was so well received. No, the reason is that the writers have changed. There is a new set of writers now running things and they are obviously not up to par, or they have a different vision of what Warcraft should be. It's as simple as that. They're bad at their jobs. Rehiring Metzen is a last desperate attempt to salvage things. And after all these years of being consistently bad, outside of a few questlines on the side here and there inspired by real life events, such as losing a family member, which will inevitably resonate with others, it's been nothing but slop.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

WHAT?? He's as old as time, how can you even say that by BFA he's not a developed character?? He's in WC2 !!!

He is a developed character, that development just isn't shown in wow

and here from the first couple of chapters, not gonna bother digging through the rest of the book for more.

Danath shook his bald head and ran a hand through his silvering beard, trying to recall the boy's name. Farrol, that
was it. "You've not faced orcs before, have you, Farrol?" he rumbled.
"No. sir!" Farrol replied with a wide grin that showed how young he really was. "But I'm looking forward to it, sir!"
"I'm not." Danath replied, making the soldier gasp and stare,
"You're not?" the boy asked, his voice faltering a little as he noted his commander's grim expression. "But why not.
sir? We're going to trample them, aren't we? I heard that there weren't many orcs left anymore, and they're hiding in
the woods and the mountains like wild animals!"
"The ones who got left behind when the portal closed, that's true," Danath agreed. "But that's not what we're dealing
with here. They think the Dark Portal's going to reopen. Do you know what that means?" The soldier gulped, and
Danath raised his voice to make sure the soldiers saddling their mounts
around them could hear him as well. "It means we won't be facing a ragtag group of orc survivors, boy— we'll be
facing the Horde, the largest fighting force ever seen. And that force has never been defeated, not in truth."
"But we won the war, sir!" one of the other men— Vann, Danath recalled—protested. "We conquered them!"
"That we did," he agreed. "But only because some of their own forces turned on them and we were able to crush
them at sea. What we fought at Blackrock was only a portion of the true Horde, and even then it was a close thing."

[shooketh]

He is a developed character, that development just isn't shown in wow

and here from the first couple of chapters, not gonna bother digging through the rest of the book for more.

Nothing in that paragraph implies or supports your original point. What that paragraph tells me is that there's an upcoming battle which he knows will be bloody because they're about to face seasoned Horde fighters and he will most likely lose a ton of men.

But nowhere in that is he shown as being merciful, or soft, or apologetic.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

But nowhere in that is he shown as being merciful, or soft, or apologetic.

Ya I never mentioned any of those things, I said he was disillusioned and was looking out for the younger troops, which is exactly what that quote is.