The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Lady Atia]

personally really enjoying 11.1.5 on the PTR. I love Horrific Visions. Wish we could actually test more of it without grinding it for hours upon hours. . .

The Hallowfall thing makes no sense. It's an easy grind for some decent cosmetics though. It makes me wonder if the spider raid was originally the mid tier raid.

Dastardly duos are also a ton of fun. The ilvl cap on it and the scoring system makes me wonder what this is a test for.

Wait, you can't outgear the duo thing?

Do you have to play it solo or is it actually a MMO feature that you can do with friends? If not, oh boy, I can already see the complains if you can't progress through it with better gear lol.

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TWW has very good world building and side quest writing, but the main plot itself is all over the place and has no focus. It feels like a xalatath-powered monster of the week kid show with no main goal besides just reacting to whatever xalatath does next.

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Azj-Kahet feels completely abandoned both lore and gameplay-wise. Queen ansurek was turned into a simple xalatath pawn and did absolutely nothing besides showing up 1 second in Dalaran, which was destroyed completely by xalatath and she wouldn't have needed the nerubians at all.

The city itself felt like a failed attempt to a Suramar 2.0, where rep npc sell items to help you go thorugh the city and avoid guards... while you can just turbo fly through it. It may have been designed with no flying in mind, and it should have had a longer reputation based questline.

You can even see anubazal dying in a reputation quest while he appears on the raid, it makes no sense and feels rushed.

The zone was defo made with no initial flying in mind because that's how they presented it at the initial announcement - flying was supposed to be the reward for finishing the max level campaign. That was changed between Blizzcon and Alpha launch though, as we could fly with the first build already.

And that rep quest takes place after the raid.

[Nymrohd]

Also here is my second issue with the main story. We did NOT start TWW chasing Xal'atath. We started it searching for information on the Radiant Song. Yet we've spent the expansion chasing Xal'atath while our focus should be the Worldcore.

[Cheezits]

I can see 11.1.7 having some kind of surprise drop of Nerubian content that finishes up their story and also segues into either Rootlands or K'aresh. Either would work as the Nerubians are right next door to the Big Roots and also because of the Ascended's void connection/ethereals already working with the Sureki.

In fact I think that is very likely as we already had something similar with goblin stuff near the road to Undermine and then an Undermine prequel questline. I do hope that if it is the Nerubian finale it's something bigger.

Maybe there will be a twist where the Nerubians are a big part of the Rootlands? Unsure how they would tie in but it could be like how the Covenants followed us into Zereth Mortis to help.

[Nymrohd]

It is not like the Weaver detained all Ascended. Or their Queen who is a void experiment. Having a scenario where Xal'atath goes "When did you think I was no longer using the nerubians" by taking full control of the Ascended and turning Azj'kahet into void hell leading into the Rootlands with a literal tide of Black Blood breaking the walls to the zone would be cool.
Then the survivors can follow us into Azjol'Nerub in TLT.

But yeah, K'aresh

[Alanar]

As far as TWW's plot goes, it's one of the most well paced and detail packed stories of the entire game imo.

I really dont think this is correct at all. Its a mess.

[Khaza-R]

Can Xal still mind control the ascended Nerubians at whim? Maybe there's some future plot where we find a way to break that connection and they join us against her

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I really dont think this is correct at all. Its a mess.

What about it is a mess? I think some people have issues with the pacing because its very possible that Xal's story was originally meant to be contained to TWW only and how is being stretched over an entire saga. That's about the only issue with it I can't really see.

[allegrian]

Also here is my second issue with the main story. We did NOT start TWW chasing Xal'atath. We started it searching for information on the Radiant Song. Yet we've spent the expansion chasing Xal'atath while our focus should be the Worldcore.

Correct, and the Earthen were focusing on fixing the coreway to get to the world soul. If blizzard does not end that plot thread by TLT, it will be an abandoned plot, due to the story team pivoting from whatever Danuser had planned for TWW once Metzen stepped in mid-development.

[Cheezits]

I mean it's clear TWW is full of plots that will now not be resolved for a while (Coreway, Siren Isle mysteries, Rootlands if it's not the finale, Arathi empire, Beledar) due to story shifts and the trilogy model they spoke about upfront.

I can see people being annoyed about this but I do think they are moving towards one-patch stories. Launch TWW had the earthen rebellion and us actually beating Xal which is pretty crazy for a launch storyline, then Undermine is almost completely self-contained.

[allegrian]

Can Xal still mind control the ascended Nerubians at whim? Maybe there's some future plot where we find a way to break that connection and they join us against her

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What about it is a mess? I think some people have issues with the pacing because its very possible that Xal's story was originally meant to be contained to TWW only and how is being stretched over an entire saga. That's about the only issue with it I can't really see.

Because there's no focus in the story. The world building, side stories and some character moments are very good, but the main plot makes no sense and there is no sense of direction like Mop, Wod or Legion had. It feels more like BFA, which focused on kul tiras/zandalar world building on the base game while the "main" plot went all over the place from patch to patch between faction war, azerite, azshara and nzoth.

I'd say TWW feels even worse than BFA in that sense, as we go there for the world soul, which is ignored to focus on xalatath and nerubians, and then focusing on the dark heart and dark blood for some reason while there's really nothing more to do lorewise in the isle of dorn.

The fact that the last patch and final boss of the expansion is not yet clear shows how unfocused this expansion is.

[Cheezits]

Correct, and the Earthen were focusing on fixing the coreway to get to the world soul. If blizzard does not end that plot thread by TLT, it will be an abandoned plot, due to the story team pivoting from whatever Danuser had planned for TWW once Metzen stepped in mid-development.

The pivot will definitely be less Arathi/Avaloren/Beledar versus less Titanshit, as "Titans not great" was a big plot of Danuserflight.

The jury is out on if Nerubians were ditched.

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Because there's no focus in the story. The world building, side stories and some character moments are very good, but the main plot makes no sense and there is no sense of direction like Mop, Wod or Legion had. It feels more like BFA, which focused on kul tiras/zandalar world building on the base game while the "main" plot went all over the place from patch to patch between faction war, azerite, azshara and nzoth.

I don't think the self contained island stories were bad in BFA, but them ditching the Kul Tirans and Zandalari for racial leaders after the Battle for Zandalar was ridiculous.

[allegrian]

I mean it's clear TWW is full of plots that will now not be resolved for a while (Coreway, Siren Isle mysteries, Rootlands if it's not the finale, Arathi empire, Beledar) due to story shifts and the trilogy model they spoke about upfront.

I can see people being annoyed about this but I do think they are moving towards one-patch stories. Launch TWW had the earthen rebellion and us actually beating Xal which is pretty crazy for a launch storyline, then Undermine is almost completely self-contained.

I don't trust blizzard to "finish" the siren isle mysteries. It felt more like a side writing project from one writer to give some lore to the repurposed BFA island zone, so that blizzard can sell it as a minor content patch. They just reskinned the BFA azerite to be more like TWW beledar. The siren isle lore will be completely ignored from now on, and I fear the Coreway and haranir stuff will be as well after some quick TWW epilogue quests.

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The pivot will definitely be less Arathi/Avaloren/Beledar versus less Titanshit, as "Titans not great" was a big plot of Danuserflight.

The jury is out on if Nerubians were ditched.

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I don't think the self contained island stories were bad in BFA, but them ditching the Kul Tirans and Zandalari for racial leaders after the Battle for Zandalar was ridiculous.

DF was set up from the start to be about the titans and their wrongdoings. Tyr was probably going to be either the end boss or our ally vs iridikron, to then become a villain in the next expansion where he would've had a role in TWW.

Xalatath was probably repurposed by Metzen once he thought of the WSS and changed all the nerubian stuff to make them just her pawns.

[Cheezits]

DF was set up from the start to be about the titans and their wrongdoings. Tyr was probably going to be either the end boss or our ally vs iridikron, to then become a villain in the next expansion where he would've had a role in TWW.

I do agree with this. There were a lot of things in the background pointing towards Tyr secretly being shady and cruel, with the upcoming twist being their "reboot" of him would lead to him becoming his original self devoid of any empathy for the dragons. This lines up with how much the aspects dickride him during launch- it would've been a twist for him to come back as an asshole.

I think what they decided to do instead was to pivot the "Bad Keeper" to Odyn who makes more logical sense in this role regardless of Legion. This would be part of why the slapdashed "Vyranoth and Wrathion vs Odyn" thing was created so late in the game. However, the lore book in DF prepatch Uldaman does point towards Odyn being the bad guy originally through the lorebook showing he is an egoist censoring history, so it's still possible he was the end antagonist.

Regardless I now expect a Tyr vs Odyn civil war of sorts in TLT with Tyr PROBABLY being an ally of the dragons vs Odyn who historically doesn't like them or Tyr and would side with the Titans vs dragons/mortals immediately. Also they both are The Vrykul Guys and the Vrykul will probably be the face of the expansion + main antagonists of launch.

[Enrif]

I think with the TWW pacing we have to also not forget we lost a whole .5 patch for the anniversary event, which didn't pushed the story forward.

[Khaza-R]

Because there's no focus in the story. The world building, side stories and some character moments are very good, but the main plot makes no sense and there is no sense of direction like Mop, Wod or Legion had. It feels more like BFA, which focused on kul tiras/zandalar world building on the base game while the "main" plot went all over the place from patch to patch between faction war, azerite, azshara and nzoth.

Strongly disagree here.

We know the main plot. Xal'atath wants Azeroth's worldsoul. She needs to be Darkheart and black blood to do so. Alleria and now the Ethereals throw a wrench in her plans. I am not sure what about that doesn't make sense?

Its hell of a lot more concise and direct than Sylvanas, Azshara and N'zoth all haivng schemes that made no sense in BfA

[Sondrelk]

I don't really get what people were expecting from the Coreway. It's a giant elevator with the World Soul at the bottom. There isnt really a mystery to unravel that we are missing out on. We just didnt physically go visit the World Soul yet.
Given we know that TLT is the final expansion in the trilogy, it's fairly obvious that we will go visit the World Soul at that time. Rather than immediately and ruin the reveal early.

[Cheezits]

I don't really get what people were expecting from the Coreway. It's a giant elevator with the World Soul at the bottom. There isnt really a mystery to unravel that we are missing out on. We just didnt physically go visit the World Soul yet.
Given we know that TLT is the final expansion in the trilogy, it's fairly obvious that we will go visit the World Soul at that time. Rather than immediately and ruin the reveal early.

Regardless of what the devs have stated outright, it is fairly understandable that someone would be miffed that important aspects of the $50 expansion story would only be visited and concluded $100 and two-three years later. However I don't think the worldcore plot is as narratively important as Sylvanas running away from BFA or the worldtree/Nelf grief plot taking three whole expansions to be resolved.

TWW can end without the worldcore and still end in a satisfying way IMO, but it definitely won't deal with a lot of things from launch Khaz Algar. Considering the two most popular groups so far to the mass audience (Arathi, Undermine) have little to nothing to do with the expansion plot I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.

TWW has the vibe that it works AROUND the initial expansion idea, considering on how much post-launch is focused on anything but the Earthen and Nerubians... there's a chance that 11.2 has them both reconnect with Orweyna, but also they may never be seen again for years.

[Khaza-R]

Idk. The nerubian story is definitely unfinished.

But the earthen we helped stablize things and free them from the edicts. Seems natural their story might not progress again until TLT and dealing with titan conspiracies

[Sondrelk]

Idk. The nerubian story is definitely unfinished.

But the earthen we helped stablize things and free them from the edicts. Seems natural their story might not progress again until TLT and dealing with titan conspiracies

The Nerubian story is unfinished. But we also know that the next patch will have more story for them. So definitely not abandoned on that front.

[Nymrohd]

Regardless of what the devs have stated outright, it is fairly understandable that someone would be miffed that important aspects of the $50 expansion story would only be visited and concluded $100 and two-three years later. However I don't think the worldcore plot is as narratively important as Sylvanas running away from BFA or the worldtree/Nelf grief plot taking three whole expansions to be resolved.

TWW can end without the worldcore and still end in a satisfying way IMO, but it definitely won't deal with a lot of things from launch Khaz Algar. Considering the two most popular groups so far to the mass audience (Arathi, Undermine) have little to nothing to do with the expansion plot I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.

TWW has the vibe that it works AROUND the initial expansion idea, considering on how much post-launch is focused on anything but the Earthen and Nerubians... there's a chance that 11.2 has them both reconnect with Orweyna, but also they may never be seen again for years.

Here is the thing. If you start a trilogy about an event, you don't start with the first chapter telling you how this thing will END THE WORLD only to visit said thing in the last couple of chapters of the final book. The World Soul trilogy starts with the Radiant Song and then Locus Walker telling us this happened on his planet before Dimensius invaded.
Imo this should happen at the END of TWW. We should have been brought to TWW by Xal'atath (who needed us there to feed the black blood), NOT by the Radiant Song. The Song should have happened at the end of the expansion in something related to the Beledar. Magni could have tied in through his family and the Earthen. Maybe the song could have been hinted at with maybe Anduin or Thrall hearing something but not the full thing. You could have had Anduin get the full Song when Xal was attacking the Beledar after the Palace raid but he wouldn't understand what happened and it would just be him. Or maybe even better, make it happen to just the player, with us confused after with no one else knowing what happened.

[Cheezits]

Here is the thing. If you start a trilogy about an event, you don't start with the first chapter telling you how this thing will END THE WORLD only to visit said thing in the last couple of chapters of the final book. The World Soul trilogy starts with the Radiant Song and then Locus Walker telling us this happened on his planet before Dimensius invaded.

I have a feeling the TWW intro was frontloaded with later lore (Radiant Song, Karesh tease from LW, Gorribal/The Sword) because the team was not confident that TWW was hype enough on its own. Also why 11.1's ending is teasing something that may not even be in the expansion (Karesh).

Not that TWW is bad but it's definitely the redheaded stepchild of the trilogy, conceptually, and that is most likely because it was initially designed to be as standalone as DF was.

If Rootlands happens it's going to be as much of a whiplash (to casual players unaware of Rootlands datamining) as Sylvanas leaving BFA/Iridikron leaving DF, so I expect if that is revealed there will be some kind of reveal about Midnight at the same time to "ease the pain". Or they think Haranir Druids/Earthen Druids?/playable Ascended??? will make up for it.