The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Scyth]

Btw 11.2 is approaching. Every expansion so far has had either legendaries for all (rings and cloaks) or two or more class restricted legendaries. What does everyone think will happen with TWW and then with Midnight/TLT? I don't think TWW will have two class restricted legendaries in one patch (though I prefer them and would love to see it). Does anyone think either Midnight or TLT might go back to the Legion or (more likely) Shadowlands system of many legendaries for everyone? Or do we consider that return to Borrowed Power (which apparently tier sets, Cyrce's and the new Belt are not . . .)

Casters are definitely getting a legendary next as it’s been a while.

DHs have never got one right? We might get a Warglaive one or some Agility based one.

Also, the next year looks a bit mental for WoW. MoP Classic maybe in July, S3 and Midnight announcement in August, Legion Remix in December? And Midnight release a few months after.
Imagine having other games to play..

[Dracullus]

Btw 11.2 is approaching. Every expansion so far has had either legendaries for all (rings and cloaks) or two or more class restricted legendaries. What does everyone think will happen with TWW and then with Midnight/TLT? I don't think TWW will have two class restricted legendaries in one patch (though I prefer them and would love to see it). Does anyone think either Midnight or TLT might go back to the Legion or (more likely) Shadowlands system of many legendaries for everyone? Or do we consider that return to Borrowed Power (which apparently tier sets, Cyrce's and the new Belt are not . . .)

Yes, Legion/SL legendary style is just borrowed power. But no existence of borrowed power is problem - cause as you said tier sets are as well - overcomplicated systems are. Now you think about right spec, right talent for that spec and right stats for gear, tier sets are just thing you chase, legendaries add another layer you have to research.

(Btw that's why I would love if next big class revamp will just remove specs and leave one big talent tree for class, with some builded in presets for hybrid classes.)

Imo perfect legendary system is just rare raid only drop (and let be honest, a weapon), but with 1 major disclaimer - it shouldn't be more powerful than regular weapon on this item level. Legendary status should come from lore significance and some amazing transmog + special cosmetic effect.

[Darkarath]

Btw 11.2 is approaching. Every expansion so far has had either legendaries for all (rings and cloaks) or two or more class restricted legendaries. What does everyone think will happen with TWW and then with Midnight/TLT? I don't think TWW will have two class restricted legendaries in one patch (though I prefer them and would love to see it). Does anyone think either Midnight or TLT might go back to the Legion or (more likely) Shadowlands system of many legendaries for everyone? Or do we consider that return to Borrowed Power (which apparently tier sets, Cyrce's and the new Belt are not . . .)

We already had the Siren Isle ring and we are getting a new belt with its own talent tree in TWW. I guess that we would get a legendary in the next raid but I don't think that we need anything else.

IMO Legion and SL legendary systems were a disaster and I hope that they never return. Hopefully they would fix Hero Talents first before adding even more layers of unnecessary complexity.

Imo perfect legendary system is just rare raid only drop (and let be honest, a weapon), but with 1 major disclaimer - it shouldn't be more powerful than regular weapon on this item level. Legendary status should come from lore significance and some amazing transmog + special cosmetic effect.

Pretty much this. You cannot have it any other way in a MMO and Blizzard should know better by now.

[Nymrohd]

IMO Legion and SL legendary systems were a disaster and I hope that they never return. Hopefully they would fix Hero Talents first before adding even more layers of unnecessary complexity.

I'd say the legendaries in Legion were great, the system itself was bad. I LOVE the legendary toast from Legion. Best feedback WoW ever had for rewards. But that entire acquisition system was a mess and then the end version was worse by being so boring.
Shadowlands system was mostly great imo, the only problem was HOW you got the currency. If they did the Shadowlands system now, you'd get the currency with a cumulative weekly cap acquirable from every activity in the game. I enjoyed getting Memories everywhere and the way you got the items was cool (BUT I hated how generic it felt and that you got no weapons; the cool part was that this is the place Frostmourne and the Helm of Domination were made after all, you want things to feel THAT legendary)

[Darkarath]

I'd say the legendaries in Legion were great, the system itself was bad. I LOVE the legendary toast from Legion. Best feedback WoW ever had for rewards. But that entire acquisition system was a mess and then the end version was worse by being so boring.
Shadowlands system was mostly great imo, the only problem was HOW you got the currency. If they did the Shadowlands system now, you'd get the currency with a cumulative weekly cap acquirable from every activity in the game. I enjoyed getting Memories everywhere and the way you got the items was cool (BUT I hated how generic it felt and that you got no weapons; the cool part was that this is the place Frostmourne and the Helm of Domination were made after all, you want things to feel THAT legendary)

I just think that WoW has to move away from adding modifiers to an already enough complicated class system.

I do believe that in Midnight or TLT we would have another Artifact system similar to the Legion one. I don't know how they would combine it with Hero Talents because if they add yet another artifact talent tree on top of the Hero Talent tree they could create a fine mess. I hope that the new Artifact system is purely cosmetic. I would not be surprised if they do with artifact weapons what they have done with Dragonriding mounts and the Delve mount, letting us getting new parts and colours for our weapons to customize them.

Also Taliesin mentioned that today Blizzard gathers in Boston a few streamers for a secret event. Probably related to Housing or Legion Remix. We will have information about it this week. Independently of this event, I feel that we can get new info regarding 11.2, Legion Remix and Housing at any moment from now on. Midnight reveal is not that far away.

[Nymrohd]

Also Taliesin mentioned that today Blizzard gathers in Boston a few streamers for a secret event. Probably related to Housing or Legion Remix. We will have information about it this week. Independently of this event, I feel that we can get new info regarding 11.2, Legion Remix and Housing at any moment from now on. Midnight reveal is not that far away.

I hope they test and also ask for feedback for Legion Remix (and actually bother with the feedback). MoP remix had some early issues that should have easily been avoided.

- - - Updated - - -

I just think that WoW has to move away from adding modifiers to an already enough complicated class system.

See, I think that often they overdesign legendaries. It doesn't need to add a proc or change how an ability works entirely. Just pick a low or mid priority ability and slap a +400% damage modifier on it.

[Lady Atia]

Btw 11.2 is approaching. Every expansion so far has had either legendaries for all (rings and cloaks) or two or more class restricted legendaries. What does everyone think will happen with TWW and then with Midnight/TLT? I don't think TWW will have two class restricted legendaries in one patch (though I prefer them and would love to see it). Does anyone think either Midnight or TLT might go back to the Legion or (more likely) Shadowlands system of many legendaries for everyone? Or do we consider that return to Borrowed Power (which apparently tier sets, Cyrce's and the new Belt are not . . .)

We will recraft Atiesh. The setup is there and it's a nice nod to the original Atiesh questline if we have to gather it's fragments first etc.

I really hope they didn't drop the concept of legendaries because people complained that the DF ones were "mandatory" and the crafting part was shitty done. Maybe they didn't want players to drop their legendary going from the second raid into the third (or having to farm it and play with a weapon that has less gs overall), or they just didnt had any ideas for a goblin weapon. Gally's azerite cone could have worked as healer mace imo, but maybe they thought it was either too plain or had no real history. Or it was only really useful for Paladins because every other healer can use Atiesh next patch aswell, and having two legendaries in a row for most healers would have felt weird.

Legendaries for all with no history, context, connection to a character and without any unique models were the worst thing that ever happened to the game.

[huth]

I mean, to be fair, between MoP's "You want a reason to siege Orgrimmar? Robot spy dog" and BfA's. Everything, it was abundantly clear they'd have to do something because all they'd manage to do with how they handled the factions was entirely kill one side of the game. On US servers you rolled Horde, on Oceanic servers you rolled Alliance, and you could not play the game at high level on your server if you were the opposite faction

pro tip for anyone doing a faction based MMO: Giving one faction preferential treatment and three massive cinematics where they get all the limelight and exceedingly popular fox people, whereas the other one gets diaper gnomes and just stands awkwardly around because you didn't make them any content so they get invited like a plus one, probably isn't good for the future of your faction based content. At least 11.1.7 tries to give each side their own thing in Arathi

The actual lesson is to not do hard player segregation by those factions. By BfA, the imbalance was already bad enough that the actual content had no meaningful impact. Which is why they're increasingly removing it.

[Nymrohd]

The actual lesson is to not do hard player segregation by those factions. By BfA, the imbalance was already bad enough that the actual content had no meaningful impact. Which is why they're increasingly removing it.

It really should have been like it is now from day one. Keep the faction storylines as hardcore as you want, for PvE allow cross-faction guilds and grouping immediately. ESO does it while having a zone where the three factions murder each other daily.

[Dracullus]

Also Taliesin mentioned that today Blizzard gathers in Boston a few streamers for a secret event. Probably related to Housing or Legion Remix. We will have information about it this week. Independently of this event, I feel that we can get new info regarding 11.2, Legion Remix and Housing at any moment from now on. Midnight reveal is not that far away.

At this point 11.2 is most likely, it's nearest big thing in line just month away from now. I think all these 11.1.7 questlines are smokescreen to hide real 11.2 prologue that isn't tested, we will get big hint on release day and then reveal on Thursday with interviews, PTR and pre-recorded gameplay from streamers.

Bigger housing news at this point are most likely saved for Gamescom/Midnight reveal, Legion Remix is even more further away - it's not that big to hype it before 11.2.7 PTR.

I hope they test and also ask for feedback for Legion Remix (and actually bother with the feedback). MoP remix had some early issues that should have easily been avoided.

Only big issue was Blizzard expecting us to farm bronze for months. But sadly this attitute repeated few times since then (TWW pre-patch, anniversary tokens) - Blizzard going cheap with rewards, people storm reddit/wowhead, Blizzard fix it in few days achieving nothing.

Blizzard could also split currency for cosmetics and player power. I remember trying to explain people that buying mounts before max item level is stupid, but barely anyone listen - they bought shiny mounts with all bronze, then struggled a lot, then maxed gear anyway.

[Lahis]

Blizzard could also split currency for cosmetics and player power. I remember trying to explain people that buying mounts before max item level is stupid, but barely anyone listen - they bought shiny mounts with all bronze, then struggled a lot, then maxed gear anyway.

Putting tons of bronze into gear instead of cosmetics just prolnged the grind fro no reason.

Once I had completed the grind for comsetic, I didn't need to grind anymore. Had I wasted bronze for upgrades, I would still have had as much grinding left.

[Xilurm]

They neutered Warcraft's edge because the fanbase proved that the softer fans gathered post-Cata COULD NOT handle something like Teldrassil. People were freaking out like it happened IRL.

I think the fanbase has matured emotionally a little bit since then but people going as crazy as to say Horde BFA was promoting irl fascism and hate crimes? That's why. Removing Gallywix was still stupid though.

I'm going to guess that this is part of the reason they keep delaying the Titans Bad thing, especially if they made the Shadowlands, because it will eventually be shown that the player character was complicit in their crimes for a very long time.

No one would have a problem with decent writing, which the burning of Teldrassil wasn't.

[Makorus]

Putting tons of bronze into gear instead of cosmetics just prolnged the grind fro no reason.

Once I had completed the grind for comsetic, I didn't need to grind anymore. Had I wasted bronze for upgrades, I would still have had as much grinding left.

Definitely not.

Unless you got carried, investing Bronze into gear skyrocketed your power so much meaning you would spend less time farming.

[Lady Atia]

At this point 11.2 is most likely, it's nearest big thing in line just month away from now. I think all these 11.1.7 questlines are smokescreen to hide real 11.2 prologue that isn't tested, we will get big hint on release day and then reveal on Thursday with interviews, PTR and pre-recorded gameplay from streamers.

Bigger housing news at this point are most likely saved for Gamescom/Midnight reveal, Legion Remix is even more further away - it's not that big to hype it before 11.2.7 PTR.



Only big issue was Blizzard expecting us to farm bronze for months. But sadly this attitute repeated few times since then (TWW pre-patch, anniversary tokens) - Blizzard going cheap with rewards, people storm reddit/wowhead, Blizzard fix it in few days achieving nothing.

Blizzard could also split currency for cosmetics and player power. I remember trying to explain people that buying mounts before max item level is stupid, but barely anyone listen - they bought shiny mounts with all bronze, then struggled a lot, then maxed gear anyway.

I mean, they always say that they "can't give us a first iteration that's too good because than they can't take it away from players anymore". That's why you get low bronze/plunder at the start, low amounts of t set charges and the whole valorstones dilemma aswell as the raid dinars drama.

[Lahis]

Definitely not.

Unless you got carried, investing Bronze into gear skyrocketed the acquisition rate.

Nah, it did not. All the content already exploded under you after two levels up upgrades beyond the max ilvl it dropped as. No point in wastign bronze to go any further.

[Makorus]

Btw 11.2 is approaching. Every expansion so far has had either legendaries for all (rings and cloaks) or two or more class restricted legendaries. What does everyone think will happen with TWW and then with Midnight/TLT? I don't think TWW will have two class restricted legendaries in one patch (though I prefer them and would love to see it). Does anyone think either Midnight or TLT might go back to the Legion or (more likely) Shadowlands system of many legendaries for everyone? Or do we consider that return to Borrowed Power (which apparently tier sets, Cyrce's and the new Belt are not . . .)

I am quite positive that we will get Atiesh.

We haven't had a caster legendary in a while, and it would make sense seeing how much of a focus they put on Atiesh getting destroyed.

[Dracullus]

Putting tons of bronze into gear instead of cosmetics just prolnged the grind fro no reason.

Once I had completed the grind for comsetic, I didn't need to grind anymore. Had I wasted bronze for upgrades, I would still have had as much grinding left.

Here we go again, but I brought it on myself.

Most profitable bronze farm BY FAR was clearing HC raids daily, which were faster than transmog run - to the point you optimized where to use hearthstone. One catch - if you had shitty gear people didn't invite you or at best you wasted time looking for group every day, while in 575 whole clear including finding group took less than hour.

[Makorus]

Nah, it did not. All the content already exploded under you after two levels up upgrades beyond the max ilvl it dropped as. No point in wastign bronze to go any further.

That's not even true.

Going from two upgrade levels to max upgrade meant I could realistically run (and carry, really) all base raids in like 10 minutes. The longest part about running the raids was waiting for people to catch up with me. Even doing all three SOO was insanely quick if everyone was max ilvl and that was realistically the only way to get into Mythic groups which had the most efficient Bronze per time.



Upgrading gear compared to buying everything was such a drop in the bucket anyway that it just made more sense to do that.

[Lahis]

Upgrading gear compared to buying everything was such a drop in the bucket anyway that it just made more sense to do that.

I did the math. Gear upgrades cost about the same as getting everything else.

And therein lies the crux of the problem. I could have worked my ass off to get into the efficient grind territory to grind more, or I could have worked my ass off and be done with it all right away.

I chose to be done with it faster.

[Dracullus]

That's not even true.

Going from two upgrade levels to max upgrade meant I could realistically run (and carry, really) all base raids in like 10 minutes. The longest part about running the raids was waiting for people to catch up with me. Even doing all three SOO was insanely quick if everyone was max ilvl and that was realistically the only way to get into Mythic groups which had the most efficient Bronze per time.



Upgrading gear compared to buying everything was such a drop in the bucket anyway that it just made more sense to do that.

Anyway, since people even now are arguing means they learned nothing and same shit will repeat in Legion Remix unless Blizzard just make 2 currencies - 1 for power and 1 for cosmetics.

And on max item level "power" currency could be transferable to "cosmetic" one through vendor. Or it could serve for upgrading artifact weapon infinitely.