The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Limayria]

New DH spec is doubtful unfortunately. Thanks to Hero talents, a new DH spec would require them to completely overhaul the existing 2 DH hero talents.

Fel scared for havoc/vengeance aldratchi for vengeance/new spec

Blade dance focused hero talent for havoc/new spec

New spec focused on under utilized or removed dh abilities, old style moment, fury of the illidari, glaive throws legendary from shadowlands, chaos blades and most importantly a spec that doesn't have a demon form to help deliver the actual dh fantasy of fighting demons and actually resisting the demon within rather than being like "erm yeah you can have control as much as possible actually"

Other mechanically hooks would be built around glaive work combos and bleeds, giving the new spec deflecting dance with two charges of blade dance would allow it to be an actual defensive and allow havoc to get an actually defensive as well instead of weak ass blur

Make it void themed, give us void elf demon hunters, allows the eternal havoc mover debate to end restored the lost early legion play style and even allows havoc to have a functional tree and be freed from 36 button opener

[The-Shan]

New DH spec is doubtful unfortunately. Thanks to Hero talents, a new DH spec would require them to completely overhaul the existing 2 DH hero talents.

I don't see why that couldn't be done, its not unreasonable for them to redo the current hero specs between expansions. Not only that, but I'm sure to add a new spec, they'd be more than willing to design 2 more.

[Sondrelk]

New official poll on TWW S3. Which new dungeons will be added to the roster.
Guess they are intent on not doing a S4 with only the existing dungeons like what DF had. If I were to guess, probably because of Floodgate being one that logically should have been available despite the roster of dungeons then being 9 instead of 8.

Seems a bit early to be talking about the next major patch. But I guess the developers have started working on 11.2 properly already. So they probably want to know in advance what dungeons need extra tuning. And whether the dungeons will be lacking rings or necks or whatever.

[Dracullus]

New official poll on TWW S3. Which new dungeons will be added to the roster.
Guess they are intent on not doing a S4 with only the existing dungeons like what DF had. If I were to guess, probably because of Floodgate being one that logically should have been available despite the roster of dungeons then being 9 instead of 8.

Seems a bit early to be talking about the next major patch. But I guess the developers have started working on 11.2 properly already. So they probably want to know in advance what dungeons need extra tuning. And whether the dungeons will be lacking rings or necks or whatever.

Probably this is moment they start working on next M+, they just usually don't ask community. Of course they already work on 11.2, if making X.X would take same time as X.X.5/7, we wouldn't have minor patches at all.

And as I said in news thread, I don't like concept of playing same dungeon 2 full season when we have superior system. In Midnight they should go with 4+3+3 system (assuming we will have 10 dungeons like with every expac since SL).

[Sondrelk]

Probably this is moment they start working on next M+, they just usually don't ask community. Of course they already work on 11.2, if making X.X would take same time as X.X.5/7, we wouldn't have minor patches at all.

And as I said in news thread, I don't like concept of playing same dungeon 2 full season when we have superior system. In Midnight they should go with 4+3+3 system (assuming we will have 10 dungeons like with every expac since SL).

I want to agree on the 4-3-3 lineup. But I know that players would throw one of their usual bitchfits when they have to wait a year to play whatever dungeon. There is already constant complaints that the first season isnt all 8 new dungeons. So just imagine if you have to wait even longer.

[Tiradon]

New official poll on TWW S3. Which new dungeons will be added to the roster.
Guess they are intent on not doing a S4 with only the existing dungeons like what DF had. If I were to guess, probably because of Floodgate being one that logically should have been available despite the roster of dungeons then being 9 instead of 8.

Seems a bit early to be talking about the next major patch. But I guess the developers have started working on 11.2 properly already. So they probably want to know in advance what dungeons need extra tuning. And whether the dungeons will be lacking rings or necks or whatever.

I’m curious to see what happens if no S4 then.. Options:

A) Faster Midnight release (unlikely?)
B) something new in between?

I do need them to announce Major Patch, as my raiding team is already considering not subbing past April.

- - - Updated - - -

I want to agree on the 4-3-3 lineup. But I know that players would throw one of their usual bitchfits when they have to wait a year to play whatever dungeon. There is already constant complaints that the first season isnt all 8 new dungeons. So just imagine if you have to wait even longer.

They barely can balance existing dungeons as is like we saw in TWW S1 and now S2….

- - - Updated - - -

Probably this is moment they start working on next M+, they just usually don't ask community. Of course they already work on 11.2, if making X.X would take same time as X.X.5/7, we wouldn't have minor patches at all.

And as I said in news thread, I don't like concept of playing same dungeon 2 full season when we have superior system. In Midnight they should go with 4+3+3 system (assuming we will have 10 dungeons like with every expac since SL).

I’m certain they must have started before but are trying to discuss with the community and try to get feedback which is fine honestly.

Pretty sure most of 11.2 is in final states as the team prepares to move to support the next set of patches in Midnight.

They are still doing A) & B) team for expats and patches right? They also got C) team which is working on plunder I guess

[Dracullus]

I want to agree on the 4-3-3 lineup. But I know that players would throw one of their usual bitchfits when they have to wait a year to play whatever dungeon. There is already constant complaints that the first season isnt all 8 new dungeons. So just imagine if you have to wait even longer.

Yeah, hard to disagree with that. Potential X.1 would have to be included in S2 too because of theme. Guess megadungeon in X.1.5 is better way after all,

I can think of another way though. That will also cause some backlash, but they could just launch 4 dungeons in X.0. That would be similar to raid situation, first we had huge first tier, then they split it, then wasted time testing Nighthold twice (in Beta and 7.1.5 PTR), then in BfA they learned to introduce stuff to PTR when it's relevant.

They would have only communicate that Midnight will have 10 dungeons total anyway. Of course people that straight up lie to bash WoW would have a feast.

Hell, it could be even positive thing, they could add hard versions (megadungeon style) in every patch until X.2, not only it would make small ones more interesting but also test them before they enter seasonal pool.

I’m curious to see what happens if no S4 then.. Options:

A) Faster Midnight release (unlikely?)
B) something new in between?

No 11.2.6, no real need for even shorter S4. Judging from 8 weeks average between patches (that Blizzard fulfill religiously) we can point S3 on August, MD prepatch on February and launch on March.

[Limayria]

I’m curious to see what happens if no S4 then.. Options:

A) Faster Midnight release (unlikely?)
B) something new in between?

I do need them to announce Major Patch, as my raiding team is already considering not subbing past April.

- - - Updated - - -



They barely can balance existing dungeons as is like we saw in TWW S1 and now S2….

- - - Updated - - -



I’m certain they must have started before but are trying to discuss with the community and try to get feedback which is fine honestly.

Pretty sure most of 11.2 is in final states as the team prepares to move to support the next set of patches in Midnight.

They are still doing A) & B) team for expats and patches right? They also got C) team which is working on plunder I guess

C team is the proletariat studio they bought, and theyre doing housing

[Scyth]

I also think we aren't getting a S4 this time, or rather hope as I would really rather go into Midnight instead. Fated seasons are incredibly dull imo.

My guess is we are getting a Remix in Winter as that's what the roadmap indicated (assuming the Fel green means Legion Remix ofc) and Midnight will launch after the Remix ends.

[milkmustache]

I didn't mind the Fated/Awakened raids because it was a nice way to get missed transmogs via dinars, but for M+ is pretty uneventful.

If the typical S4 slot has a combination of Legion Remix and Housing, I wonder if that'll be enough to hold over without a S4. I wager maybe not so much.

[Eldryth]

I finally got around to doing the fate of Dalaran questline, and I noticed something interesting.

I've seen plenty of speculation on whether Kel'thuzad could return though his Mirror Image (personally I'd guess not, given that the locket immediately lost its magic and was destroyed at the end). But I don't think I've seen anyone bring up the fact that it used the Void, or how strange that is.

Kel'thuzad had plenty of experience with both the Arcane and Necromancy. You'd think that he would use a standard arcane portal or death gate to enter and leave his pocket dimension. But instead, he clearly used a Cosmic Void rift- a power he has never been associated with so far- to send you and Kalecgos out.

After his role in Shadowlands, it'd be hard to imagine him coming back again, but it does seem interesting- especially since he's the second major mage-turned-necromancer to posthumously be revealed to have used the Void, after Dar'Khan Drathir (who some have speculated might return in Midnight, given how important he was to Quel'thalas's story). Maybe there's an actual group of these dark mages who were studying the Void, who we could meet in Midnight? And the reformations the Kirin Tor go through could involve dealing with them, because all that talk about it being their fault when magic got abused means they'll see it as their new responsibility?

[Nymrohd]

I can think of another way though. That will also cause some backlash, but they could just launch 4 dungeons in X.0. That would be similar to raid situation, first we had huge first tier, then they split it, then wasted time testing Nighthold twice (in Beta and 7.1.5 PTR), then in BfA they learned to introduce stuff to PTR when it's relevant.

This is what I'd love to see as well. There is no real reason to start the expansion with 8 dungeons if only 4 are in rotation. Start with the leveling dungeons and then release dungeons consistently so they can be a part of the story.
Imagine e.g. if DF started with the 4 leveling dungeons that were part of each zone's story (and not the Uldaman one). Ruby Life Pools, Nokhud Offensive, Brackenhide Hollow, Halls of Infusion.
Then in 10.0.5 we would get Uldaman as a continuation of the Tyr storyline. Neltharus would also be added to progress the Sabellian vs Wrathion questing we were all doing in early DF. Then 10.1 would roll with Uldaman, Neltharus as well as Al'gethar and Azure Vault which would be released together with the Blue Dragonflight storyline. 10.2 should have had its own dungeon as well but what can you do (an Emerald Dream dungeon in a different location of the dream maybe)

I don't know how it could work for TWW but imo, dungeons should be part of the story just like raids (and even delves) are. And I think we should have 12 dungeons (or 10+1 mega or 8+2 mega) per expac. Legion had 12+1 mega, BfA had 10+1 mega.

[Worldshaper]

RISE OF AZSHARA

• The prophecy A Song of the Depths reveals to us that Queen Azshara, empowered with Void magic, will return to rule all of Azeroth. She has communicated with her Naga followers and told them of the prophecy.
• As part of the prophecy, a few things must come to pass. Not just symbolically because it makes for an interesting poem. But because without it, she wouldn't be able to return. Iridikron had to be freed and disrupt the Titans' established world order. Xal'atath had to conscript the Nerubians and the Goblins to achieve her goals involving the Black Blood, the Dark Heart, and the Beledar. The Dark Heart had to consume the power of Galakrond, and later be stolen by the Ethereals.
• The prophecy ends rather ominously with "soon all that was hidden wll be revealed," which specifically refers to all the secret knowledge and things that are hidden beneath the Dragon Isles and Khaz Algar: the Dark Heart, Neltharion's meddling with the Void, the Beledar, Elun'ahir and the lies of Aman'thul which it represents, and so on. But it also refers to this line "the fall of night reveals her true face, she will bring only ruin," which will take place in the upcoming patches.
• So this is where we are now. The "awakening" is about to take place. The awakening will either be figuratively, in the sense of the denizens of Azeroth "waking up to the truth" and so on, which was also hinted at by N'Zoth with his "all eyes will be opened" comments. But it can also be interpreted in the literal sense, in that somebody or something will literally awaken. I will allow myself the flexibility of offering two possible paths forward in this theory:
• • Scenario A - The figurative awakening means that Xal'atath will break our delusions about the Titans and perhaps have a lot of people join her cause. She might achieve this by shattering (or darkening) the Beledar, or draining the Order magic from the worldsoul. This is already (sort of) shown by the Titans losing their grip on the Earthen of Khaz Algar. Their world order is crumbling.
  • Scenario B - The literal awakening means that Xal'atath will awaken something, which I suspect has to do with the Beledar. Either by unlocking the Beledar's full potential (turning it fully Void) or by releasing something from within it, such as a secret 5th Old God. Remember her quote "Only one would remain to consume the world, that was always meant to be". This likely involves the Undersea (which might be where the 5th Old God is hidden unless it's inside the Beledar).
• Now, we will have to wait and see if the "awakening" is an act of desperation by Xal'atath, since the Dark Heart has been taken from her. Her Plan B, as it were. Alternatively, if the "awakening" can't take place until she has reclaimed the Dark Heart. For example, we might need to go to K'aresh and watch her reclaim the thing first. If that's the case, then there's also a pretty big chance that the Dark Heart will first be used to drain the Voidy remnants of K'aresh, thereby turning it even more powerful as a result. If Xal'atath was trying to drain Shadow magic from the Beledar to empower the Dark Heart, this might be the same thing but way more powerful (although I remain open to the possibility that she was in fact trying to infuse the Beledar with Void, not drain it, in an attempt to carry out the awakening already).
• I don't think Galakrond was chosen randomly. Sure, changes to the narrative might have taken place since then. But it's such an oddly specific thing to go back in time to drain Galakrond's power. Especially since we only saw his bones. It's not like they used the opportunity for his full return or anything. We just needed specifically Galakrond's powers. This likely means that his powers are tied to the 5th Old God somehow. He did have necromantic powers, and the 5th Old God is depicted with vines and skulls in Chronicles. So it's not unimaginable that he was her champion, or that Yogg-Saron somehow used the 5th Old God's powers to create Galakrond. Which is why they would be needed to awaken the 5th Old God, if indeed it is stored within the Beledar (or underneath it).
• The mural in Azj-Kahet, meanwhile, might reveal the future and not the past. A powerful 5th Old God with ascended Nerubians worshiping at its feet. All that imagery (Xal'atath's cloak for example) might reveal the Beledar crashing to Azeroth with the 5th Old God, which was then kept secret. Heck, it might even be a failsafe in case the other 4 Old Gods failed or strayed from the path.
• So there you have it. The likely outcome of The War Within and the cause of Midnight. The events of K'aresh allow for "Midnight" to happen, which involves the introduction of a 5th Old God OR simply our established view of the world crumbling (causing us to lose hope). Then Queen Azshara returns to rule.

[Teriz]

I don't see why that couldn't be done, its not unreasonable for them to redo the current hero specs between expansions. Not only that, but I'm sure to add a new spec, they'd be more than willing to design 2 more.

Oh, between expansions isn't a problem. I thought the poster I was responding to was talking about adding the new spec mid-expansion like Augmentation was.

[Nymrohd]

Oh, between expansions isn't a problem. I thought the poster I was responding to was talking about adding the new spec mid-expansion like Augmentation was.

Nah, during Legion Remix so that's probably together with 10.2.7. It would still be disruptive imo because of how restrictive the Hero Talent design currently is.

[Tiradon]

I also think we aren't getting a S4 this time, or rather hope as I would really rather go into Midnight instead. Fated seasons are incredibly dull imo.

My guess is we are getting a Remix in Winter as that's what the roadmap indicated (assuming the Fel green means Legion Remix ofc) and Midnight will launch after the Remix ends.

I think everyone would take Midnight over anything else, but I don’t inow if they can deliver 12.0 soon enough.

I’d prefer them to take more time and actually decent a decent Season 1 than what happened with TWW S1, M+ wasn’t really playable for the first few weeks and the reward system with Crests made 0 sense between 5-10 keys

[allegrian]

They should just add a legendary or whatever carrot on a stick in the last raid and make the third/last season longer, as it has historically been the case in wow. Then add housing and legion remix on the last months after many stopped playing m+ or raid and finally release prepatch.

I don't ser why they should have all seasons have the same length, i prefer a slightly longer last season than a fated one afterwards, the last raid should be where your character gets the ultimate power in that expansion

[Scyth]

I think everyone would take Midnight over anything else, but I don’t inow if they can deliver 12.0 soon enough.

I’d prefer them to take more time and actually decent a decent Season 1 than what happened with TWW S1, M+ wasn’t really playable for the first few weeks and the reward system with Crests made 0 sense between 5-10 keys

I also would want a good, bug-free expansion launch but tbh I've learnt not to expect that anymore. There's barely any QA left at Blizz and they are often pressed for time so better not expect a smooth launch.

Then again I was pretty satisfied with both DF and TWW's launch.

[Joshuaj]

RISE OF AZSHARA

• The prophecy A Song of the Depths reveals to us that Queen Azshara, empowered with Void magic, will return to rule all of Azeroth. She has communicated with her Naga followers and told them of the prophecy.
• As part of the prophecy, a few things must come to pass. Not just symbolically because it makes for an interesting poem. But because without it, she wouldn't be able to return. Iridikron had to be freed and disrupt the Titans' established world order. Xal'atath had to conscript the Nerubians and the Goblins to achieve her goals involving the Black Blood, the Dark Heart, and the Beledar. The Dark Heart had to consume the power of Galakrond, and later be stolen by the Ethereals.
• The prophecy ends rather ominously with "soon all that was hidden wll be revealed," which specifically refers to all the secret knowledge and things that are hidden beneath the Dragon Isles and Khaz Algar: the Dark Heart, Neltharion's meddling with the Void, the Beledar, Elun'ahir and the lies of Aman'thul which it represents, and so on. But it also refers to this line "the fall of night reveals her true face, she will bring only ruin," which will take place in the upcoming patches.
• So this is where we are now. The "awakening" is about to take place. The awakening will either be figuratively, in the sense of the denizens of Azeroth "waking up to the truth" and so on, which was also hinted at by N'Zoth with his "all eyes will be opened" comments. But it can also be interpreted in the literal sense, in that somebody or something will literally awaken. I will allow myself the flexibility of offering two possible paths forward in this theory:
• • Scenario A - The figurative awakening means that Xal'atath will break our delusions about the Titans and perhaps have a lot of people join her cause. She might achieve this by shattering (or darkening) the Beledar, or draining the Order magic from the worldsoul. This is already (sort of) shown by the Titans losing their grip on the Earthen of Khaz Algar. Their world order is crumbling.
  • Scenario B - The literal awakening means that Xal'atath will awaken something, which I suspect has to do with the Beledar. Either by unlocking the Beledar's full potential (turning it fully Void) or by releasing something from within it, such as a secret 5th Old God. Remember her quote "Only one would remain to consume the world, that was always meant to be". This likely involves the Undersea (which might be where the 5th Old God is hidden unless it's inside the Beledar).
• Now, we will have to wait and see if the "awakening" is an act of desperation by Xal'atath, since the Dark Heart has been taken from her. Her Plan B, as it were. Alternatively, if the "awakening" can't take place until she has reclaimed the Dark Heart. For example, we might need to go to K'aresh and watch her reclaim the thing first. If that's the case, then there's also a pretty big chance that the Dark Heart will first be used to drain the Voidy remnants of K'aresh, thereby turning it even more powerful as a result. If Xal'atath was trying to drain Shadow magic from the Beledar to empower the Dark Heart, this might be the same thing but way more powerful (although I remain open to the possibility that she was in fact trying to infuse the Beledar with Void, not drain it, in an attempt to carry out the awakening already).
• I don't think Galakrond was chosen randomly. Sure, changes to the narrative might have taken place since then. But it's such an oddly specific thing to go back in time to drain Galakrond's power. Especially since we only saw his bones. It's not like they used the opportunity for his full return or anything. We just needed specifically Galakrond's powers. This likely means that his powers are tied to the 5th Old God somehow. He did have necromantic powers, and the 5th Old God is depicted with vines and skulls in Chronicles. So it's not unimaginable that he was her champion, or that Yogg-Saron somehow used the 5th Old God's powers to create Galakrond. Which is why they would be needed to awaken the 5th Old God, if indeed it is stored within the Beledar (or underneath it).
• The mural in Azj-Kahet, meanwhile, might reveal the future and not the past. A powerful 5th Old God with ascended Nerubians worshiping at its feet. All that imagery (Xal'atath's cloak for example) might reveal the Beledar crashing to Azeroth with the 5th Old God, which was then kept secret. Heck, it might even be a failsafe in case the other 4 Old Gods failed or strayed from the path.
• So there you have it. The likely outcome of The War Within and the cause of Midnight. The events of K'aresh allow for "Midnight" to happen, which involves the introduction of a 5th Old God OR simply our established view of the world crumbling (causing us to lose hope). Then Queen Azshara returns to rule.

There likely is no "5th" Old God. Or at least, I think the "5th" Old God stuff is a bit misconstrued. The Old Gods are dead, and nothing in TWW implies there is a 5th Old God. At best, maybe you can argue Xal'atath was an entity akin to the Old Gods prior to her being placed in the knife, but that's it.

As for Azshara? I think y'all might be overhyping her a bit. She's basically the Void's version of Kil'jaeden (The same way Sylvanas was Death's version of KJ). Could she be final boss material? Sure. Will she gain a lot of power? Possibly. Will she actually be the final boss of Midnight and/or become some type of ultimate ruler? Lol probably not.

Everything seems to point at us facing Dimensius in some way. And unless Blizzard pulls an Argus on us and we face the Worldsoul of K'aresh instead, I think it's safe to assume Dimensius will likely be the final boss of Midnight.

- - - Updated - - -

I also would want a good, bug-free expansion launch but tbh I've learnt not to expect that anymore. There's barely any QA left at Blizz and they are often pressed for time so better not expect a smooth launch.

Then again I was pretty satisfied with both DF and TWW's launch.

The last buggy expansion launch I faced in WoW was during WoD, I'm fairly certain. SL and BFA are a bit lost on me, but I think I remember them being smooth launches. Legion as well.

[Mecheon]

There likely is no "5th" Old God. Or at least, I think the "5th" Old God stuff is a bit misconstrued. The Old Gods are dead, and nothing in TWW implies there is a 5th Old God. At best, maybe you can argue Xal'atath was an entity akin to the Old Gods prior to her being placed in the knife, but that's it.

As for Azshara? I think y'all might be overhyping her a bit. She's basically the Void's version of Kil'jaeden (The same way Sylvanas was Death's version of KJ). Could she be final boss material? Sure. Will she gain a lot of power? Possibly. Will she actually be the final boss of Midnight and/or become some type of ultimate ruler? Lol probably not.

Everything seems to point at us facing Dimensius in some way. And unless Blizzard pulls an Argus on us and we face the Worldsoul of K'aresh instead, I think it's safe to assume Dimensius will likely be the final boss of Midnight.

The one thing that fueled 5th old god speculation was the one early book that gave us the whole "There are 5 old gods" turned up again in Dragonflight, with annotations from Deathwing.

That's basically it. In Vanilla there were 5 old gods, then that got cut down to 3 with the release of War of the Ancients, then back up to 4 with MoP, then maybe 5 with whatever was going on in Uldir