The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Cheezits]

Oh, I like the sound of that! If they were going to go that far, they should move Dark Ranger off of hunters and make it the death spec. Then give hunters a new BM/MM hero talent tree in its place.

Yeah, I think they will inevitably move DR off of Hunters or at least change the name regardless if we get Spellbow, it's pretty much the only overtly thematic hero talent (after they nerfed the elune one visually) and there have been plenty of complaints.

[Lady Atia]

Yeah, I think they will inevitably move DR off of Hunters or at least change the name regardless if we get Spellbow, it's pretty much the only overtly thematic hero talent (after they nerfed the elune one visually) and there have been plenty of complaints.

Yeah nope, no way they take away DR after we finally got it (even if they could have done MORE to make it actually MORE thematic).


Actually, we need MORE THEMATIC hero specs like dr, not less wtf.

[Makorus]

Yeah nope, no way they take away DR after we finally got it (even if they could have done MORE to make it actually MORE thematic).


Actually, we need MORE THEMATIC hero specs like dr, not less wtf.

No, we definitely need less ultra specific Hero Specs like DR and Sentinel, that are already a thing. I am not saying that every hero talent should be Slayer-tier of whatever, but Dark Ranger is just too specific to be a hero talent tree. Hero Talent trees should be concepts, rather than actual entities. Flameshaper is fine, Spellslinger is fine, Scalecommander is kind of pushing it, Rider of the Apocalypse is fine, but Dark Rangers are an actual group.

[Cheezits]

Yeah nope, no way they take away DR after we finally got it (even if they could have done MORE to make it actually MORE thematic).

Actually, we need MORE THEMATIC hero specs like dr, not less wtf.

If there's a better way to get dark ranger in the game I think they should take it. They can still let hunters shoot a dark arrow, but I think there's way more they can do with a new class (warping, flying, portal arrows, etc)

The hero talents that are actually racial fantasies are far and few between.

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Flameshaper is fine, Spellslinger is fine, Scalecommander is kind of pushing it, Rider of the Apocalypse is fine, but Dark Rangers are an actual group.

I think part of what makes these two acceptable is that they are baked into Hero Classes. As wonky as it is it makes more sense that a Death Knight could summon riders (perhaps not the horsemen) and the Evoker is an elite soldier per their unique lore, so they would have the rank to call in other dracs.

[huth]

I think part of what makes these two acceptable is that they are baked into Hero Classes. As wonky as it is it makes more sense that a Death Knight could summon riders (perhaps not the horsemen) and the Evoker is an elite soldier per their unique lore, so they would have the rank to call in other dracs.

Let's not forget that by lore, the player DK is their boss already anyway. It does rather make sense they get to command them to aid them in battle.

[Cheezits]

Let's not forget that by lore, the player DK is their boss already anyway. It does rather make sense they get to command them to aid them in battle.

Right, but not all DKs did Legion. I don't know if they refer to you as Deathlord in SL if you didn't do those quests, for example.

Regardless through magic fuckery it's fine, and they aren't that powerful of characters, so it's not a hard sell. As opposed to any class of any race turning into a banshee through Dark Ranger.

[Ersula]

No, we definitely need less ultra specific Hero Specs like DR and Sentinel, that are already a thing. I am not saying that every hero talent should be Slayer-tier of whatever, but Dark Ranger is just too specific to be a hero talent tree. Hero Talent trees should be concepts, rather than actual entities. Flameshaper is fine, Spellslinger is fine, Scalecommander is kind of pushing it, Rider of the Apocalypse is fine, but Dark Rangers are an actual group.

There are a group of well known Dark Rangers with a specific history, but both in and outside that context, they are just Rangers who use dark magics. It's like if they add a spellbreaker hero tree. Spellbreakers are a specific unit of elves, but both in universe & from the players perspective, its known to be an armored fighter who is specifically trained to fight spellcasters.

[Cheezits]

There are a group of well known Dark Rangers with a specific history, but both in and outside that context, they are just Rangers who use dark magics.

Not to be nitpicky but is there a Dark Ranger in WoW that isn't specifically aligned with the Forsaken/Sylvanas? Because it certainly sounds like only a faction, without members that have been trained outside of it. I think the only ones that come to mind are the Darkfallen Nelves/Helves/Velves raised in the 4th war, who still were a part of that faction.

[Makorus]

There are a group of well known Dark Rangers with a specific history, but both in and outside that context, they are just Rangers who use dark magics. It's like if they add a spellbreaker hero tree. Spellbreakers are a specific unit of elves, but both in universe & from the players perspective, its known to be an armored fighter who is specifically trained to fight spellcasters.

No, Dark Rangers are very much a specific force in a specific faction. The original ones were trained by Sylvanas, the next ones by Nathanos and the next ones by Delaryn

It would be like giving Rogues a "Demon Hunter" hero talent tree (in a world where DHs weren't already a class, obviously just for arguments sake).

[Enteroctopus Magnificus]

My guess is similar, I think for Midnight we will get a neutral Ethereal race and an Arcane/Void class, with spes themed after Ethereal archetypes that we see.

An Ethereal-themed class writes itself, call it Nexus-Walker or something. From here you could do Arcane/Void-themed caster DPS spec (Warpweaver), a stealthy melee DPS spec (Phase-Thief), and a technomancy-based tank spec (Artificer).

It's funny because I proposed exactly the same concept of a class based on void/arcane/magitech ethereals a few months ago. If they were considering this for Midnight, I'd be eating out of their hands.

[Alanar]

Oh, I like the sound of that! If they were going to go that far, they should move Dark Ranger off of hunters and make it the death spec. Then give hunters a new BM/MM hero talent tree in its place.

Pretty sure this idea, was one of the oldest there is and was flamed up until now it seems. How opinions have shifted.

I agree it would fit much better for things like dark ranger. It doesnt fit very well in its current form and it lacks as well.

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Not to be nitpicky but is there a Dark Ranger in WoW that isn't specifically aligned with the Forsaken/Sylvanas? Because it certainly sounds like only a faction, without members that have been trained outside of it. I think the only ones that come to mind are the Darkfallen Nelves/Helves/Velves raised in the 4th war, who still were a part of that faction.

Void elves werent risen at fourth war, they were just given the costumization pretty much.

[Enteroctopus Magnificus]

• The Scintal Reef (A name taken from the WoW RPG. Possibly encompassing Northeron, Elven ruins and maybe a Naga stronghold).

Oh interesting, I like that. I'd love it if they could make an underwater zone with a dynamic swimming system and a sea that actually looks like a sea and not a flat puddle.

Oh, I like the sound of that! If they were going to go that far, they should move Dark Ranger off of hunters and make it the death spec. Then give hunters a new BM/MM hero talent tree in its place.

I still think the Dark Ranger should have been the Subtlety Rogue's ranged (bow) specialization. A bit like in Diablo IV. In many RPGs, the bow is a silent weapon often associated with rogues. It suits them much better than the hunters.

[Nibelheimy]

Pretty sure this idea, was one of the oldest there is and was flamed up until now it seems. How opinions have shifted.

I agree it would fit much better for things like dark ranger. It doesnt fit very well in its current form and it lacks as well.

Absolutely, I remember suggesting this exact concept years ago and more recently in saga discussing and I'm seeing some names now suggesting it that criticised me originally.

I'll have to have a look back sometime, but when suggesting this particular concept that I think makes perfect sense I got a lot of flack.

[Monkal]

I still think the Dark Ranger should have been the Subtlety Rogue's ranged (bow) specialization. A bit like in Diablo IV. In many RPGs, the bow is a silent weapon often associated with rogues. It suits them much better than the hunters.

Imo poisons should be baked into Sublety and Assassination should just become a ranged spec.

[Cheezits]

I still think the Dark Ranger should have been the Subtlety Rogue's ranged (bow) specialization. A bit like in Diablo IV. In many RPGs, the bow is a silent weapon often associated with rogues. It suits them much better than the hunters.

Imo poisons should be baked into Sublety and Assassination should just become a ranged spec.

I think they've been on record that they never want to do a Legion-style spec revamp ever again, so I can't see them changing a melee into a ranged in 2025, even if it would make sense.

It's more likely that the Midnight class, if it exists, will be Full Void, but I do think a multi-magic Spellbow would be more fitting for the overall expansion and offer more opportunities for customization.

If the expansion was K'aresh or a void planet a void class would make perfect sense, but instead it's an elf wonderland populated with void, arcane and death forces. Also Light if they want to add that, but I think they will just focus on Liadrin and her blood knights.

[Enteroctopus Magnificus]

Imo poisons should be baked into Sublety and Assassination should just become a ranged spec.

Good alternative too.

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I think they've been on record that they never want to do a Legion-style spec revamp ever again, so I can't see them changing a melee into a ranged in 2025, even if it would make sense.

And I think that's a mistake. I really do.

[Monkal]

I think they've been on record that they never want to do a Legion-style spec revamp ever again, so I can't see them changing a melee into a ranged in 2025, even if it would make sense.

Bah! Cowards!!

[Cheezits]

And I think that's a mistake. I really do.

Bah! Cowards!!

Blizz has walked back old ideologies before, but I think this one is going to stick. People to this day complain about Survival Hunter being changed even if they haven't played it- and hunter is one of the most popular classes. The idea of hopping back on your spec and it playing not only differently but with an entirely new weapon is a lot for people to chew on, even if it's perceived as a cool thing flavor/lorewise. And Blizz is trying to do everything they can not to piss people off these days.

Moving Dark Ranger to a new class/giving Hunter a new tree, or simply doing Dark Ranger again for a new class but calling it something different in a new spec, would not sting as much as it's just 2 or 3 spells- nothing as big as weapon changeups.

[huth]

Imo poisons should be baked into Sublety and Assassination should just become a ranged spec.

Assa is already well-established as the poison spec though, so it'd make more sense to do it the other way around.

[Ersula]

No, Dark Rangers are very much a specific force in a specific faction. The original ones were trained by Sylvanas, the next ones by Nathanos and the next ones by Delaryn

It would be like giving Rogues a "Demon Hunter" hero talent tree (in a world where DHs weren't already a class, obviously just for arguments sake).

You're technically correct, but people in this universe wouldn't be confused that a hunter who specializes in hunting demons would still be a "demon hunter". A Dark Mage might not necessarily be a warlock, or Fallen Paladin might not necessarily be a death knight, etcetera, they all have the same connotation. It's more like now the term Darkfallen & Sanlayn still existed before the scourge became a thing: I'm sure Sylvanas wasn't the first Ranger to use dark magic in history.