The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Mecheon]

Imo poisons should be baked into Sublety and Assassination should just become a ranged spec.

I want you to know that, as a rogue player, this concept, of removing Assassination, the historically well performing rogue spec that tends to be the most functional between Outlaw's endless problems and Sub's complicated development history (and being relegated to 'the pvp spec' for a while), made me so angry that this post has lived rent-free in my head all day at work. I had to come home and voice my displeasure at this idea

You say "cowards", I say "rogue players would be actively baying for dev blood"

[Enrif]

Imo poisons should be baked into Sublety and Assassination should just become a ranged spec.

i think outlaw should be the ranged spec, it is the one that actually uses guns already (even if only in animations). And an outlaw with a crossbow, gun or even bow is actually quite fitting name wise too.
Perhaps similar to fury and frost where they can have a node in their spec tree to switch the effectiveness from dual wielding weapons to be able to use a ranged weapons? And most of the outlaw skills wouldn't really require a change outside of the range. perhaps blade flurry needs to be changed to a ricochet type of skill that damages all enemies next to your target

[Nymrohd]

i think outlaw should be the ranged spec, it is the one that actually uses guns already (even if only in animations). And an outlaw with a crossbow, gun or even bow is actually quite fitting name wise too.
Perhaps similar to fury and frost where they can have a node in their spec tree to switch the effectiveness from dual wielding weapons to be able to use a ranged weapons? And most of the outlaw skills wouldn't really require a change outside of the range. perhaps blade flurry needs to be changed to a ricochet type of skill that damages all enemies next to your target

I honestly would like a hybrid spec when it comes to combat range. Let Outlaw be effective in range but e.g. have to spend specific cooldown windows in melee

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I want you to know that, as a rogue player, this concept, of removing Assassination, the historically well performing rogue spec that tends to be the most functional between Outlaw's endless problems and Sub's complicated development history (and being relegated to 'the pvp spec' for a while), made me so angry that this post has lived rent-free in my head all day at work. I had to come home and voice my displeasure at this idea

You say "cowards", I say "rogue players would be actively baying for dev blood"

Yeah Ass is pretty much the clean fall back for Rogue players. Usually on the easier side to play, very clear theme, relatively consistent performance. Subtlety is so damn weird I don't think you can ever figure out how to play that spec without a guide. Outlaw also has a clear theme but it could use a better niche when it comes to gameplay beyond Blade Flurry.

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i think outlaw should be the ranged spec, it is the one that actually uses guns already (even if only in animations). And an outlaw with a crossbow, gun or even bow is actually quite fitting name wise too.
Perhaps similar to fury and frost where they can have a node in their spec tree to switch the effectiveness from dual wielding weapons to be able to use a ranged weapons? And most of the outlaw skills wouldn't really require a change outside of the range. perhaps blade flurry needs to be changed to a ricochet type of skill that damages all enemies next to your target

I think making it a clear range spec switches it from a Pirate to Robin Hood. Which is also a Rogue archetype mind you, but not a WoW one. I honestly don't understand why we have only 2 ranged weapon specs in the game so many years after and really hope for a magic archer class in Midnight or at least a few magic archer specs becoming available to different classes. Problem is Dark Ranger and Sentinel effectively gave Hunter two very specific Warcraft magic archer fantasies though I find neither satisfying.

[Limayria]

I honestly would like a hybrid spec when it comes to combat range. Let Outlaw be effective in range but e.g. have to spend specific cooldown windows in melee

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Yeah Ass is pretty much the clean fall back for Rogue players. Usually on the easier side to play, very clear theme, relatively consistent performance. Subtlety is so damn weird I don't think you can ever figure out how to play that spec without a guide. Outlaw also has a clear theme but it could use a better niche when it comes to gameplay beyond Blade Flurry.

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I think making it a clear range spec switches it from a Pirate to Robin Hood. Which is also a Rogue archetype mind you, but not a WoW one. I honestly don't understand why we have only 2 ranged weapon specs in the game so many years after and really hope for a magic archer class in Midnight or at least a few magic archer specs becoming available to different classes. Problem is Dark Ranger and Sentinel effectively gave Hunter two very specific Warcraft magic archer fantasies though I find neither satisfying.

Hero talents that allow classes new weapon types would be pretty nice

Especially if we got new or reintroduced weapon types like pistols or hand crossbows, splitting polearms into spears, halbards, scythes and twin blades

Splitting maces into maces and flails

Splitting fist weapons to separate the arm blades from the claws/fists

Hell even adding different categories of guns and bows would be awesome

[Valysar]

The Mage Quarter is compeltely buggued for me, can't fully clean visions... Never happened to me in BFA, another "rushed" recycled content ?

[Nymrohd]

The Mage Quarter is compeltely buggued for me, can't fully clean visions... Never happened to me in BFA, another "rushed" recycled content ?

What went wrong? I just completed Mage Quarter and it was fine. Still only place I don't fully remember the route so was there forever

The real mess is Soridormi making the run so much harder.

[Sondrelk]

Hero talents that allow classes new weapon types would be pretty nice

Especially if we got new or reintroduced weapon types like pistols or hand crossbows, splitting polearms into spears, halbards, scythes and twin blades

Splitting maces into maces and flails

Splitting fist weapons to separate the arm blades from the claws/fists

Hell even adding different categories of guns and bows would be awesome

There was a datamined Gladiator hero talent. Presumably for Arms and Potection warrior, where the gimmick was that the first ability you gained let you use a two handed sword alongside a shield.
I am going to assume they didnt go through with it because of coding issues. But it sure would have been a great idea.

[Darkarath]

I wonder what they would do with Talents in general in Midnight. Really curious about it.

Add more regular talents? Impossible.

Add more Hero Talent trees? Unlikely.

Expand current Hero Talent trees? Maybe?

Add a new kind of Talent trees (weapon artifacts)? Unlikely.

Revamp the Hero Talent trees system, keeping some skills and focusing on visual customization? One can dream.

[Sondrelk]

I wonder what they would do with Talents in general in Midnight. Really curious about it.

Add more regular talents? Impossible.

Add more Hero Talent trees? Unlikely.

Expand current Hero Talent trees? Maybe?

Add a new kind of Talent trees (weapon artifacts)? Unlikely.

Revamp the Hero Talent trees system, keeping some skills and focusing in visual customization? One can dream.

Yeah. I have been wondering that myself since TWW launched. Just removing the bad Hero Talent trees is nice, but doesnt really do much for the people who already enjoy what they have. And for the people who play the good ones, being told that you are not getting anything is a hard sell, no matter how much they enjoy it.

The easiest solution is probably just something else entirely. Maybe Artifact weapons again just to make the Legion comparision complete. The devs could probably make something decent if they wanted to.

[Darkarath]

Yeah. I have been wondering that myself since TWW launched. Just removing the bad Hero Talent trees is nice, but doesnt really do much for the people who already enjoy what they have. And for the people who play the good ones, being told that you are not getting anything is a hard sell, no matter how much they enjoy it.

The easiest solution is probably just something else entirely. Maybe Artifact weapons again just to make the Legion comparision complete. The devs could probably make something decent if they wanted to.

Is such a complicated and fascinating topic.

If they keep developing the current Hero Talent Trees, they would be almost making new specs, and I doubt very much that they want to follow that road.

Hero Talent Trees being shared between specs is... Controversial, to say the least. But as you say, there are people that already enjoy a certain playstyle, even if a majority hate it.

I confess that since they were announced I wasn't a fan of the system. The implementation was even worse than I expected. Such a poorly designed system IMO, even if the idea is cool.

Blizzard talks about making the game simpler yet they cannot help themselves to keep adding more and more complexity to our classes.

I wonder how they would tackle this issue. It is clear IMO that after the WSS we will see the biggest class revamp ever. The concept of classes might even change. I just hope that Blizzard would stop making things more difficult until then.

[Sondrelk]

Is such a complicated and fascinating topic.

If they keep developing the current Hero Talent Trees, they would be almost making new specs, and I doubt very much that they want to follow that road.

Hero Talent Trees being shared between specs is... Controversial, to say the least. But as you say, there are people that already enjoy that certain playstyle, even if a majority hate it.

I confess that since they were announced I wasn't a fan of the system. The implementation was even worse than I expected. Such a poorly designed system IMO, even if the idea is cool.

They are talking about making the game simpler yet they cannot help themselves to keep adding more and more complexity to our classes.

I think the biggest problem isnt the ones people don't like, but the ones people really do. I cannot imagine Devastation players would be happy if the Hero Talents just disappeared for instance. And integrating them comes with their own sets of challenges.
The fact the hero talents are so in-depth comes with their own problems. It's easy to imagine a solution like what we got with several of the Artifact abilities. But those were single abilities. Hero talents are several options layered onto each other.

Maybe it's just the lazy option and we get some basic Void/Light overlay over our abilities like we did in Antorus.

[Cheezits]

I would be okay with no real changes to existing classes in Midnight. Minus customization/fluff stuff (new race combos)

[Darkarath]

I would be okay with no real changes to existing classes in Midnight. Minus customization/fluff stuff (new race combos)

I didn't even list that as an option because I know Blizzard and I know that they cannot help themselves. They will add something new.

But yeah I would love that they would just focus in improving what is already there.

Maybe it's just the lazy option and we get some basic Void/Light overlay over our abilities like we did in Antorus.

Please don't give Blizzard ideas

[Khaza-R]

If there's no new class in Midnight then I would be pretty surprised if we didn't at least see BE druid, VE paladin and NE paladin added just due to their popularity and being easy to integrate into the story of the new expansion.

[Monkal]

On the subject of race/class combos, you guys reckon we'll get earthen druids anytime soon? I used to think the freysworn NPCs were pointing that way but I've kinda given up on that.

[Darkarath]

On the subject of race/class combos, you guys reckon we'll get earthen druids anytime soon? I used to think the freysworn NPCs were pointing that way but I've kinda given up on that.

In DF they were clearly going in the direction of any race can be any class. Then something happened, and they completely stop. Even after they made some fairly polemical additions like Lightforged Warlocks.

IMO at this point, since they cannot go back on those changes, the only way forward is keep going. I'm fairly sure that eventually they would open practically every class to every race. Since in Midnight the reunification of elves would take place, I think that Paladins for all is very possible.

There is also the possibility that they stopped because they are going to make something cosmetic with the class system. You know, class skins or something like that.

[Makorus]

In DF they were clearly going in the direction of any race can be any class. Then something happened, and they completely stop. Even after they made some fairly polemical additions like Lightforged Warlocks.

IMO at this point, since they cannot go back on those changes, the only way forward is keep going. I'm fairly sure that eventually they would open practically every class to every race. Since in Midnight the reunification of elves would take place, I think that Paladins for all is very possible.

There is also the possibility that they stopped because they are going to make something cosmetic with the class system. You know, class skins or something like that.

Baffling how the Tyr Questline set up Paladins for all classes and 10.2 definitely planted the seed (no pun intended) for Druid for all races and then nothing happened. Surely they can at least whip up some Charge models at some point.

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I wonder what they would do with Talents in general in Midnight. Really curious about it.

Add more regular talents? Impossible.

Add more Hero Talent trees? Unlikely.

Expand current Hero Talent trees? Maybe?

Add a new kind of Talent trees (weapon artifacts)? Unlikely.

Revamp the Hero Talent trees system, keeping some skills and focusing in visual customization? One can dream.

Honestly, I think it's going to be additional Hero Talent trees akin to Elite Specs in GW2, which also combats power/talent creep. Sidegrading rather than upgrading. Granted, it's going to be hard for some classes like Rogues or Warriors that already struggle with the identity of the ones they have,

[Lady Atia]

Baffling how the Tyr Questline set up Paladins for all classes and 10.2 definitely planted the seed (no pun intended) for Druid for all races and then nothing happened. Surely they can at least whip up some Charge models at some point.

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Honestly, I think it's going to be additional Hero Talent trees akin to Elite Specs in GW2, which also combats power/talent creep. Sidegrading rather than upgrading. Granted, it's going to be hard for some classes like Rogues or Warriors that already struggle with the identity of the ones they have,

The problem is that sidegrading isn't really working for (current) WoW since everyone will still just play the "best" spec anyways, even currently the best case for some classes we have is one hero spec for aoe and one for single target. So you would either end up with everyone just playing the new thing, or no one playing the new thing which would also suck.

When hero specs were announced they were marketed as evergreen, and I always expected them just to add new talent points to the current ones we have. All they would have to do than is to make sure that both hero specs have their niches (again, easiest for balancing is one for single target and one for aoe).

[Cheezits]

If there's no new class in Midnight then I would be pretty surprised if we didn't at least see BE druid, VE paladin and NE paladin added just due to their popularity and being easy to integrate into the story of the new expansion.

BE druid and NE paladin make a lot of sense, but I think VE paladin isn't as likely as Forsaken Paladin.

They are probably going to do something with Vol'jin too so Darkspear Paladin isn't out of the question.

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Baffling how the Tyr Questline set up Paladins for all classes and 10.2 definitely planted the seed (no pun intended) for Druid for all races and then nothing happened. Surely they can at least whip up some Charge models at some point.

They walked back the Tyr stuff because people hated how corny it was, but it may have had to do with the Tyr story pivot as well. People swear up and down that 10.2 was druids for all but... there was nothing about all the races being taught druidism. Also, and I said this back then, if they opened it up to all races but gave everyone generic forms, people would be annoyed.

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On the subject of race/class combos, you guys reckon we'll get earthen druids anytime soon? I used to think the freysworn NPCs were pointing that way but I've kinda given up on that.

I think Earthen druids were planned to happen around the same time as the Haranir in the original version of TWW, tying into the Elun'ahir Rootlands reveal (as Freya is involved, Freysworn, etc) but now they've been kicked back. Also probably because they aren't very popular, Blizz will either take their time with that or scrap it.

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I feel like race combos aren't gated behind art assets- yes, they take time to make. But the reason Blizz withholds them is because they are selling points for certain expansions or races they are trying to sell (like Earthen Paladin, KT Druid, Zandy paladin, etc).

[Valysar]

What went wrong? I just completed Mage Quarter and it was fine. Still only place I don't fully remember the route so was there forever

The real mess is Soridormi making the run so much harder.

I was doing everythin fine, went to mage quarter. instead of getting to the usual step where I have to close the portals, they told me to go straight to kill Umbric but the mage tower portal was "close", going through it did nothing. I started again, same bug