The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Nibelheimy]

Looking at it realistically, TLT is going to be our last expansion about big cosmic themes for a while. They're signing off (this time for real) on the end of the wow story as we know it. Answering a lot of questions (supposedly and hopefully) before we're all too old to play the game ourselves. To quote their announcement anyway.

The saga/expansion/whatever after is not going to be anyway here's cosmic saga about interchangeable coloured goop number 2. Its going to be labelled as a new start. Whether that's likely to be a revamp or somewhere entirely new or a time skip, is anyone's guess.

From listening to recent announcements and videos they've released. They've made it clear they're happy to support wow going forward. A lot of people have claimed its going to die for many years, and at this point I fully believe that's not going to be the case. (At least until they fuck up drastically) and they're going big on pointing out how climatic the end of this saga will be. They're bringing all of the big guns out of the box this time.

They understand they have an aging player base, they are trying youtube shorts and tiktok advertising to bring in new blood. I have seen a lot of new players come in and done my best to help them get involved with the game, but sometimes the sheer mass of content they've missed out on is too much for them to catch up with. This gets ignored a lot. WoW is very, very unfriendly to new players, especially the younger generation that may have never touched an mmo before. With honesty, as much as I personally love its jankiness at times, it can be very off-putting if you're not used to it.

The new expansions is going to be at the very least the beginnings of a new big Era of Warcraft. They will want to bring as many new people into it as they are currently ending a lot of the big questions regarding the game we've had for twenty years. It will be branded as such.

I do think the class survey was real (maybe im stoopid) But I would not be surprised if a bunch of new classes being added in at the start of a new saga. We're going to get a squish soon anyway. I also am expecting a big revamp on character creation.

In my opinion, there's going to be a new large continent. Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdom size. Almost certainly Avaloren. Where we have a large level up path to reach endgame.

I really don't see just another expac being announced next. At the least a saga. Its not enough at this point to go here's Fel/Death/light/Order/life/Void saga. It has to be something to build onto something for those new players, and for us oldies as well, who do deserve well thought out, well built up, coherent storylines after 2 decades of subsciption and expansion fees.

Why does new player who is 18-25 and plays wow as their first mmo in 2029/2030 care about Void, or Fel or any other cosmic force?

I do personally see an expansion where we leave for Avaloren as a smallish expeditionary group with limited, possibly young hero characters. - The Duraks and Talia's of wow possibly - are rejected by the Emperor, imprisoned as a slaves. Break our way out, and slowly intergrate into the new world. My favourite little theory is the emperor is in control of the storms that protect Avaloren, lowers them to allow us and Faerin in, only to execute her for being of secret royal blood which could be a threat to the legitamacy of his rule, only to re-apply the storms leaving us stranded, with no way home. (Damn teleport lore ruining this but anyway)

Have 3 large continents for 3 expansions. Set the Arathi emperor as villain of the saga. Have us escape from the capital, steal ships, and land at the first continent. This first continent can be made freely, it can have entirely new cultures, civilization, races, everything. We have to build our way up to make allies/help the locals/bolster our ranks to take on the empire itself in the 3rd expac.

This would leave all of the zones we've been to over the years free of us for a saga or possibly more. Make that saga last in lore at least 10 years. Then we can have the revamp when we eventually return. We can see how leaders have aged, how alliances have broken or evolved how the lands have shaped. Who's taken over now?

I'm not suggesting Wow 2 by any means. I'm sure even blizzard know by now that's suicide. But I do expect a large portion of the branding of what's to come as a fresh start in terms of story. Jump in now for the new Era of Warcraft. Be there for the beginning of the next 20 years. Don't be 2/5/10/17 years late again.

(Disclaimer: I am not suggesting a wipe of any bodies characters/collections/achievements by any means - Never do this)

[Joshuaj]

An expac finishing off the Demon stuff for a bit would help in kickstarting the next 20 years ngl, would also fit with the whole "revamp" stuff Blizzard's been seemingly kicking off.

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Idk about 3 expansions taking place on different continents tho. I think continuing the revamps, finishing off stories from SL and DF, and doing 1 expac with a new continent would be perfect for the saga after this one.

[Nibelheimy]

An expac finishing off the Demon stuff for a bit would help in kickstarting the next 20 years ngl, would also fit with the whole "revamp" stuff Blizzard's been seemingly kicking off.

The demon stuff in lore is a nothing burger right now. Legion did not happen that long ago. Give Denathrius some time and breathing room to actually be built up as a credible villain again.

The true kick off is Sargeras being released to pull the sword back out. That's the end of this saga. Its the sword in the stone. The end of 20 years of Titan conspiracies and we finally find out the truth of the planet we've spent 20 years on as we know it. They have directly told us yeah this is the big one, and hey in fairness that is also standard marketing press and may not mean anything.

I truly don't see them jumping into hey go to 6 different planets for a demon lord saga rn please lets kick off the next 20 years.

You do need a realistic foundation for cosmic level story's. We're getting an ending for one of those now. Let them build the next one up for a bit. You cannot jump from endgame level plot to endgame level plot every 2 years. Its not plausible. There's no payoff. We're quickly running out of Varians to kill for emotional reaction here.

I may be completely wrong, we could keep burning through zones and characters at this pace. We could cycle through 6 possible demon worlds right now, they could for some inane reason take us to different cosmic palette realms right off the bat.

But those things only work when they are built up. We need to see some characters grow so we care when they're killed by our next big bads.

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Idk about 3 expansions taking place on different continents tho. I think continuing the revamps, finishing off stories from SL and DF, and doing 1 expac with a new continent would be perfect for the saga after this one.

3 continents based in Avaloren. I can also see revamps being part of the next saga if they choose that, but honestly the best way to do a revamp may be to give it a timeskip.

But they are ending this particular book so to speak. At least for a while. Nobody wants more DF and SL. You don't start a foundation of the next 2 decades by finishing stories that were generally hated by your community. You start something new.

[Dvalin]

t's far too early to tell, and the devs will presumably continue seeding new post-Worldsoul plothooks, locations and narrative-threads the coming two expansions.

[Joshuaj]

The demon stuff in lore is a nothing burger right now. Legion did not happen that long ago. Give Denathrius some time and breathing room to actually be built up as a credible villain again.

The true kick off is Sargeras being released to pull the sword back out. That's the end of this saga. Its the sword in the stone. The end of 20 years of Titan conspiracies and we finally find out the truth of the planet we've spent 20 years on as we know it.

I truly don't see them jumping into hey go to 6 different planets for a demon lord saga rn please lets kick off the next 20 years.

You do need a realistic foundation for cosmic level story's. We're getting an ending for one of those now. Let them build the next one up for a bit. You cannot jump from endgame level plot to endgame level plot every 2 years. Its not plausible. There's no payoff.

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3 continents based in Avaloren. I can also see revamps being part of the next saga if they choose that, but honestly the best way to do a revamp may be to give it a timeskip.

But they are ending this particular book so to speak. At least for a while. Nobody wants more DF and SL. You don't start a foundation of the next 2 decades by finishing stories that were generally hated by your community. You start something new.

The Demon stuff is very much not a nothing burger, and has been a rising issue for quite a while now. Sure, it's not nearly as bad as when the Burning Legion was still a thing, but let's not act like somethings not brewing here, cause it is.

And I doubt they're gonna use Sargeras for JUST THAT. Sure, Sargeras himself will likely be gone somewhere post-TLT, but that begs the question: What's up with Illidan and the Illidari? What's up with Outland and the Auchenai rebuilding iT? With Sargeras gone, what's going on with the many Demons within the Nether? Cause clearly some of them are still doing stuff.

Also, Legion would be 10 years old once Midnight releases, and it would be 12 years old when TLT releases. I think I'm pretty fair in thinking a new Demon based expac would be cool to see, especially if Outland gets a revamp, as Outland hasn't been properly touched on in about 20 years (over 20 years after TLT).

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Would the Demon stuff be a bit of a jump? Maybe. But it would also be a good send off for the Demons and Fel plot imo. Also, I would LOVE it if Blizzard made new players explore Outland in a more current manner. Would provide perfect TBC vibes.

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"You do need a realistic foundation for cosmic level story's. We're getting an ending for one of those now. Let them build the next one up for a bit. You cannot jump from endgame level plot to endgame level plot every 2 years. Its not plausible. There's no payoff."

We have TBC and Legion. Those would be the build up expansions lol. TBC introduced the Demons as a major threat to players, Legion showcased the full force of the Burning Legion to players, and whatever could come next could showcase a full-on Demonic War to players. Would be cool.

[Nibelheimy]

Would the Demon stuff be a bit of a jump? Maybe. But it would also be a good send off for the Demons and Fel plot imo. Also, I would LOVE it if Blizzard made new players explore Outland in a more current manner. Would provide perfect TBC vibes.

I suppose my point was I was hoping they'd start off the next 2 decades on something more than just vibes. I never stated that Sargeras was returning to only pull out the sword. Brewing is correct, but brewing takes time. Legion coming out 10 years ago means nothing if all we can say about demons right now is that they are up to something. Everybody is up to something. Let them hint at what the something actually is, let it become a credible threat.

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We have TBC and Legion. Those would be the build up expansions lol. TBC introduced the Demons as a major threat to players, Legion showcased the full force of the Burning Legion to players, and whatever could come next could showcase a full-on Demonic War to players. Would be cool.

My past three posts have been on suggesting proper build-up, a break from main story and a possible new start for the franchise to lure new players in by going to a completely unseen, locked away with no way to return to area of the world we've known before, to give the main characters room to breath, lands to change and a reason for intrigue in revamps. I appreciate you may be exited about demon lords that don't exist yet and diving into that. But if you don't want to discuss my suggestions and want to just bring the discussions back to your grand ideas of Demon lords warring and for some reason we're in outland to combat this and that's all the build up we need. I don't know what to say.

If I say why does new player who's never touched an mmo play in 2030 and supposed to care about Fel? You respond with lol BC and Legion are build up enough. It sort of misses the entire reason I made my original posts bringing that particular topic up.

[Joshuaj]

I suppose my point was I was hoping they'd start off the next 2 decades on something more than just vibes. I never stated that Sargeras was returning to only pull out the sword. Brewing is correct, but brewing takes time. Legion coming out 10 years ago means nothing if all we can say about demons right now is that they are up to something. Everybody is up to something. Let them hint at what the something actually is, let it become a credible threat.

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My past three posts have been on suggesting proper build-up, a break from main story and a possible new start for the franchise to lure new players in by going to a completely unseen, locked away with no way to return to area of the world, to give the main characters room to breath. I appreciate you may be exited about demon lords that don't exist yet and diving into that. But if you don't want to discuss my suggestions and want to just bring the discussions back to your grand ideas of Demon lords warring and for some reason we're in outland to combat this and that's all the build up we need. I don't know what to say.

I mean, sure, but it ain't like the Void Invasion in Midnight's had much build up outside of Xal'atath and the few mentions of Renilash lol.

Sure, a new start is fine, but my point on an Outland revamp and whatnot is primarily to deal with the Demons so we won't have to deal with them again for a good while. Also, would feel like a waste for us not see Denathrius again, or deal with the Demon stuff again in the coming years. Idk, I don't think it's worth waiting THAT long.

As for why I think Outland should be the battlefield? Simple. Whoever wins claims the Dark Portal, and whoever claims the Dark Portal claims access to Azeroth. Demonic Factions wage war on eachother to claim the Dark Portal and launch a massive attack on the world. Perfect excuse for an expansion setting imo. I get you don't want to discuss this further, but I wanted to clarify that rq lol.

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Regardless, I do agree in that Blizzard should do new stories for the next 20 years of WoW, primarily on Azeroth. I just want the Denathrius stuff, as well as much of the remaining Demon stuff out of the way, as it seems clear to me that Blizzard wants to at least continue this plotline. When and how is the big question tho.

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Besides, I'd be shocked if Xoroth, Nathreza, etc were built up this much, just for us to never explore them.

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Oh, and 1 last thing, I never said saga. Just 1 expac in a saga, with the main setting being a revamped Outland. The saga itself would be focused on setting up a new age for WoW, since I picture Blizzard making the next saga (or should I say the next couple of stories, since we don't know if the saga stuff is gonna continue post-Worldsoul Saga or not) about finishing off the revamps, finishing off stories built up in past expansions (Like the Arathi Empire, the Titanforged rebels, some cool new Dragon lore, Denathrius, the Demons, and the Auchenai with Outland), and setting up entirely new stories.

[Worldshaper]

If we stop assuming the expansion has been massively changed from its original plan for a minute, and just look at what we have...

- A location that fits with our general idea of K'aresh has been shown in a cinematic, along with the Dark Heart being held by an Ethereal. TWW datamining also showed a few icons for an Ethereal raid alongside ones for a Goblin raid.

- Orweyna and the Haranir live among the roots of Elun'ahir and serve as its guardians. They've yet to be fully featured. Additionally there was a "rootlands" zone marked on early maps, with its entrance near Azj-Kahet currently teleporting players away if they approach it.

- The Beledar remains a mystery, but early concept art showed it having a doorway and it seemingly serves as a bulwark against dark forces below the Undersea. There's also a mural depicting what looks like an Old God below a darkened Beledar, surrounded by ascended Nerubians.

- It's still unclear if the Coreway will receive further development in TWW. There's obviously more to see further down but we'll have to see if it will be repaired anytime soon. We know of a Titan-forged facility that we've yet to visit, Uldaz, but it remains to be seen if it's underneath Khaz Algar or elsewhere.

With all of the above in mind, what's the most likely theme for 11.2?

Personally, I'm open minded. But I think it's possible that the zone is either "rootlands," the Undersea, or Uldaz while the actual raid is about the Ethereals.

IIRC the Beledar was also labelled "naaru crystal" on early maps, wasn't it? Seems like it could be our vessel to reach K'aresh for the raid.

[Darkarath]

I would say that after TLT, unless we get a full Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms revamp, we are going somewhere else.

IMO it is practically imposible that Blizzard makes 3 expansions in a row of revamps. Players would complain for sure.

I very much agree that after the WSS we are shelving cosmic themes for a while and starting anew.

WoW is too big, and very unwelcoming to new players. Unless Blizzard finds a way to get new blood, eventually it would start to lose players rapidly. That is why I'm so curious about what they have in mind for Midnight and beyond for new players. It is literally the most important feature for the game in the long run.

Also, come on, there is no way in which we are getting an expansion or saga hopping around between different Demons planets, and revamping Outland again after Draenor is incredibly unlikely.

When the Demons come again, they would do so in a very different way, in the same way that SL brought the Undead threat in a new version, not as The Plague 2.0.

[Pheraz]

I would say that after TLT, unless we get a full Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms revamp, we are going somewhere else.

IMO it is practically imposible that Blizzard makes 3 expansions in a row of revamps. Players would complain for sure.

I very much agree that after the WSS we are shelving cosmic themes for a while and starting anew.

WoW is too big, and very unwelcoming to new players. Unless Blizzard finds a way to get new blood, eventually it would start to lose players rapidly. That is why I'm so curious about what they have in mind for Midnight and beyond for new players. It is literally the most important feature for the game in the long run.

Also, come on, there is no way in which we are getting an expansion or saga hopping around between different Demons planets, and revamping Outland again after Draenor is incredibly unlikely.

When the Demons come again, they would do so in a very different way, in the same way that SL brought the Undead threat in a new version, not as The Plague 2.0.

I agree that is too big.
Chromie was a good step in the right direction.

One of my children plays wow too ("12") and she got used to swap around the expansions with chromie.
What's really interesting is that she always returns back to bfa zones.. I don't know if it's just a personal preference but after she tries other zones to level in she always comes back to those. Maybe they really hit the spot there (alliance). SL is similarly guided but I guess the vibe is not her thing. And DF is really not so good in terms of getting into the wow vibe. You re just thrown in to the dragon isles and it's too much at once imo
They really shouldn't make it the default zone for new players and stick to bfa until they hopefully finally revamped the old world

[Joshuaj]

I would say that after TLT, unless we get a full Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms revamp, we are going somewhere else.

IMO it is practically imposible that Blizzard makes 3 expansions in a row of revamps. Players would complain for sure.

I very much agree that after the WSS we are shelving cosmic themes for a while and starting anew.

WoW is too big, and very unwelcoming to new players. Unless Blizzard finds a way to get new blood, eventually it would start to lose players rapidly. That is why I'm so curious about what they have in mind for Midnight and beyond for new players. It is literally the most important feature for the game in the long run.

Also, come on, there is no way in which we are getting an expansion or saga hopping around between different Demons planets, and revamping Outland again after Draenor is incredibly unlikely.

When the Demons come again, they would do so in a very different way, in the same way that SL brought the Undead threat in a new version, not as The Plague 2.0.

I mean, the Undead were always more than just the Plague, but I think it's a bit unfair to compare the Demons to the Scourge threat-level wise. One was a terrestrial level threat that recently got linked to an actual cosmic threat, while the other was a cosmic threat from the very beginning (The Legion was quite literally the greatest power in the Nether, mind you).

Also, I'm kinda tired of people assuming we won't get an Outland update cause of Draenor. They're essentially different things, and even if you want to count it, WoD is almost 12 years old currently, so wtf yeah? And while my concept does involve planet hopping, there would only really be 2 new zones on unknown worlds, with the rest taking place as raids.

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Idk, I feel like that would be the only way to properly go about it. How else would you do it? Cause the Demons are seemingly the primary power of Disorder (makes sense, the powers of anarchy create entities of anarchy through different means). You can't pull a Shadowlands on it, unless Blizzard BS's a "pantheon" for Disorder, which imma assume is very unlikely tbh.

[Khaza-R]

I would say that after TLT, unless we get a full Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms revamp, we are going somewhere else.

IMO it is practically imposible that Blizzard makes 3 expansions in a row of revamps. Players would complain for sure.

I very much agree that after the WSS we are shelving cosmic themes for a while and starting anew.

WoW is too big, and very unwelcoming to new players. Unless Blizzard finds a way to get new blood, eventually it would start to lose players rapidly. That is why I'm so curious about what they have in mind for Midnight and beyond for new players. It is literally the most important feature for the game in the long run.

Also, come on, there is no way in which we are getting an expansion or saga hopping around between different Demons planets, and revamping Outland again after Draenor is incredibly unlikely.

When the Demons come again, they would do so in a very different way, in the same way that SL brought the Undead threat in a new version, not as The Plague 2.0.

From what I gather on this forum at least, a lot of veteran players seem to want a sort of restart to WoW without losing all their cosmetics and achievements.

So maybe that is best for the game in the long-run. New and old players starting fresh. I am not sure how feasible that would be from a gameplay and character progression perspective. But seeing as they are capable of making seperate game modes like Remix and Plunderstorm, I could see them making a seperate new era mode for 14.0.

I agree that is too big.
Chromie was a good step in the right direction.

One of my children plays wow too ("12") and she got used to swap around the expansions with chromie.
What's really interesting is that she always returns back to bfa zones.. I don't know if it's just a personal preference but after she tries other zones to level in she always comes back to those. Maybe they really hit the spot there (alliance). SL is similarly guided but I guess the vibe is not her thing. And DF is really not so good in terms of getting into the wow vibe. You re just thrown in to the dragon isles and it's too much at once imo
They really shouldn't make it the default zone for new players and stick to bfa until they hopefully finally revamped the old world

That's interesting. But I can understand. Boralus and Kul Tiras were pretty unique in feeling immersive and "lived in". So I wonder if that's why they are drawn to it over more recent expansions

[Darkarath]

I mean, the Undead were always more than just the Plague, but I think it's a bit unfair to compare the Demons to the Scourge threat-level wise. One was a terrestrial level threat that recently got linked to an actual cosmic threat, while the other was a cosmic threat from the very beginning (The Legion was quite literally the greatest power in the Nether, mind you).

Wrong.

The Plague was a Cosmic threat from the beginning. It was always a part of the Jailer's plan, hence, a Cosmic threat. Just to be clear, I hate this part of the lore, but that does not change that SL showed us that the Jailer was behind everything and that even the Demons were just a part of his plan. It is very lame but it is what it is.

Also, I'm kinda tired of people assuming we won't get an Outland update cause of Draenor. They're essentially different things, and even if you want to count it, WoD is almost 12 years old currently, so wtf yeah? And while my concept does involve planet hopping, there would only really be 2 new zones on unknown worlds, with the rest taking place as raids.

At this point you should know better. It would not matter if we were visiting Demon's planets as zones or raids. Blizzard would just not focus so much on Demons or in any other threat for so long, no matter how different you make the planets or demons.

Regarding Outland, I think that at this point it is more likely that they destroy it completely and bring their denizens to Azeroth in a future revamp than making yet another version of Outland / Draenor. As I said, very unlikely to happen. Nothing that we have seen in years points to us returning to Outland or even Draenor.

Idk, I feel like that would be the only way to properly go about it. How else would you do it? Cause the Demons are seemingly the primary power of Disorder (makes sense, the powers of anarchy create entities of anarchy through different means). You can't pull a Shadowlands on it, unless Blizzard BS's a "pantheon" for Disorder, which imma assume is very unlikely tbh.

I have no idea. I think that the Demons being relevant again is so far away that even Blizzard probably don't know how to bring them back.

Probably they would make them appear from time to time in a very minor and abstract way (like the Pit Lord in a version of one of the new delves). Also Denathrius seems like a natural leader for a new Legion but who knows at this point? We will have to wait to see what they do with Sargeras first. My bet is that he won't survive TLT but if he does it would certainly have an impact on the Demon's future.

From what I gather on this forum at least, a lot of veteran players seem to want a sort of restart to WoW without losing all their cosmetics and achievements.

So maybe that is best for the game in the long-run. New and old players starting fresh. I am not sure how feasible that would be from a gameplay and character progression perspective. But seeing as they are capable of making seperate game modes like Remix and Plunderstorm, I could see them making a seperate new era mode for 14.0.

I would support a restart. In fact I think that it is necessary. I just don't think that Blizzard has the balls to do it.

I agree that collections and achievements cannot be restarted, that would kill a good part of the playerbase, but at the same time if they are still there, they would be a barrier for new players, even if we start anew in every other regard.

We also have to bear in mind that Blizzard is changing the new player experience in Midnight and beyond, and it seems to be a big project. So if they are doing that, it would not make much sense that after TLT they restart everything again.

[Al Gorefiend]

What do you guys genuinly think will happen after The Last Titan is over?

World revamp of EK and Kalimdor at the minimum.

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I would support a restart. In fact I think that it is necessary. I just don't think that Blizzard has the balls to do it.

I agree that collections and achievements cannot be restarted, that would kill a good part of the playerbase, but at the same time if they are still there, they would be a barrier for new players, even if we start anew in every other regard.

We also have to bear in mind that Blizzard is changing the new player experience in Midnight and beyond, and it seems to be a big project. So if they are doing that, it would not make much sense that after TLT they restart everything again.

Telling people every achievement/mount/collectable etc currently in the game will be removed but you'll get to keep and carry over the ones you earned will create suicidal levels of FOMO

[Hitei]

Wrong.

The Plague was a Cosmic threat from the beginning. It was always a part of the Jailer's plan, hence, a Cosmic threat. Just to be clear, I hate this part of the lore, but that does not change that SL showed us that the Jailer was behind everything and that even the Demons were just a part of his plan. It is very lame but it is what it is.

MU Gul'dan was "a part of Sargeras plan" and Sargeras is a cosmic threat. That doesn't make WC Gul'dan a cosmic threat. The undead plague wasn't even a world-scale threat. Putricide had to craft an entirely new strain to make it virulent enough to actually threaten the entire planet.

SL did not show us that "the Jailer was behind everything" and I wish you guys would stop endlessly parroting this complete bullshit. All it does is make it obvious you didn't actually pay any attention to anything happening in SL and formed your entire idea of the subject matter secondhand from other people who also did not pay any attention to anything happening.

[Joshuaj]

Wrong.

The Plague was a Cosmic threat from the beginning. It was always a part of the Jailer's plan, hence, a Cosmic threat. Just to be clear, I hate this part of the lore, but that does not change that SL showed us that the Jailer was behind everything and that even the Demons were just a part of his plan. It is very lame but it is what it is.



At this point you should know better. It would not matter if we were visiting Demon's planets as zones or raids. Blizzard would just not focus so much on Demons or in any other threat for so long, no matter how different you make the planets or demons.

Regarding Outland, I think that at this point it is more likely that they destroy it completely and bring their denizens to Azeroth in a future revamp than making yet another version of Outland / Draenor. As I said, very unlikely to happen. Nothing that we have seen in years points to us returning to Outland or even Draenor.



I have no idea. I think that the Demons being relevant again is so far away that even Blizzard probably don't know how to bring them back.

Probably they would make them appear from time to time in a very minor and abstract way (like the Pit Lord in a version of one of the new delves). Also Denathrius seems like a natural leader for a new Legion but who knows at this point? We will have to wait to see what they do with Sargeras first. My bet is that he won't survive TLT but if he does it would certainly have an impact on the Demon's future.



I would support a restart. In fact I think that it is necessary. I just don't think that Blizzard has the balls to do it.

I agree that collections and achievements cannot be restarted, that would kill a good part of the playerbase, but at the same time if they are still there, they would be a barrier for new players, even if we start anew in every other regard.

We also have to bear in mind that Blizzard is changing the new player experience in Midnight and beyond, and it seems to be a big project. So if they are doing that, it would not make much sense that after TLT they restart everything again.

The Scourge is a PARTIAL product of Jailer's plans in the lore, yes. However, the Scourge itself is a terrestrial threat. It having cosmic origins is not the same as it being a cosmic threat. Heck, it was used by both the Legion and the Mawsworn as a bad omen for Azeroth.

And my expansion concept doesn't even have Sargeras in it tbf (As I believe TLT will end in either him leaving with the Titans, him going into self exile, or him dying). Also, I don't think Blizzard will or should do another big Legion threat regarding the Demons. I think Denathrius making his own Legion would make for a killer Demonic faction, sure, but a new Demonic threat entire? Idk. Denathrius is also not nearly as imposing as Sargeras, so I doubt many Demons would bend the knee regardless.

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MU Gul'dan was "a part of Sargeras plan" and Sargeras is a cosmic threat. That doesn't make WC Gul'dan a cosmic threat. The undead plague wasn't even a world-scale threat. Putricide had to craft an entirely new strain to make it virulent enough to actually threaten the entire planet.

SL did not show us that "the Jailer was behind everything" and I wish you guys would stop endlessly parroting this complete bullshit. All it does is make it obvious you didn't actually pay any attention to anything happening in SL and formed your entire idea of the subject matter secondhand from other people who also did not pay any attention to anything happening.

His conspiracy definitely played a hand in a lot of major events in WoW, but I'd argue that kinda works to serve a fanmade idea of mine regarding the first 30 years of Warcraft I.E Warcraft having a "Dark Trinity" of Big Bads!

Sargeras the Destroyer, Zovaal the Jailer, and Dimensius the All-Devouring: The three dark lords responsible for much of the damage caused in the Warcraft Universe!

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When I say "Dark Trinity" I don't mean "they are working together" or anything like that, cause they aren't. Heck, Sargeras and Dimensius would likely try to kill eachother the first chance they get, and both would despise Zovaal and his plan for existence. I say Dark Trinity more as a way of basically expressing that, "if you put these 3 in a specific category, this is what you'd get", ya know?

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

When should we expect the next patch reveal?

I'm sorry to say but its' going to be dry for a while. Best to find other things to occupy your mind. I'm going quite loopy over this period, usually I had something to theorize or think about in regards to the Main Story. But, this time around it really just felt like a off ramp expansion with the McGuffin being taken everywhere.

I do live for the concept of them showing K'aresh and doing a heel turn on the audience with Rootlands / Worldcore Raid, would be probably the funniest meltdown situation in the games' history.

I'd assume Late May at the earliest to Mid July at the latest.

[Joshuaj]

I'm sorry to say but its' going to be dry for a while. Best to find other things to occupy your mind. I'm going quite loopy over this period, usually I had something to theorize or think about in regards to the Main Story. But, this time around it really just felt like a off ramp expansion with the McGuffin being taken everywhere.

I do live for the concept of them showing K'aresh and doing a heel turn on the audience, would be probably the funniest meltdown situation in the games' history.

I'd assume Late May at the earliest to Mid July at the latest.

Why would they have to wait Mid July at the latest? Wouldn't the latest be very early July, assuming the patch releases mid/late June ofc?

[Darkarath]

MU Gul'dan was "a part of Sargeras plan" and Sargeras is a cosmic threat. That doesn't make WC Gul'dan a cosmic threat. The undead plague wasn't even a world-scale threat. Putricide had to craft an entirely new strain to make it virulent enough to actually threaten the entire planet.

Wrong.

In the moment that a cosmic power is behind something, is a cosmic threat by extension.

If the Plague had been successful, who would have ultimately benefited from that success? The Jailer.

SL did not show us that "the Jailer was behind everything" and I wish you guys would stop endlessly parroting this complete bullshit. All it does is make it obvious you didn't actually pay any attention to anything happening in SL and formed your entire idea of the subject matter secondhand from other people who also did not pay any attention to anything happening

I know that it is hard to accept, but that is how wild was Blizzard's mistake with the Jailer. In the moment that the Nathrezim were bound to him through Denathrius, practically everything that happened concerning Azeroth led to the Jailer.

[Joshuaj]

Wrong.

In the moment that a cosmic power is behind something, is a cosmic threat by extension.

If the Plague had been successful, who would have ultimately benefited from that success? The Jailer.



I know that it is hard to accept, but that is how wild was Blizzard's mistake with the Jailer. In the moment that the Nathrezim were bound to him through Denathrius, practically everything that happened concerning Azeroth led to the Jailer.

So is the original Horde a cosmic threat then?