The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Sondrelk]

I'm tired of the Scourge. There's a reason why Legion, Shadowlands, and BFA did what they did.

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Also, no housing news this week either it seems. Just a reminder of the Boston Tickets Second Wave article. Slightly upset cause I saw the TikTok they posted yesterday, and assumed they planned something unique for today, but ig not. It's fine.

There is that reasoning. But there is also the fact that having Scourge in TLT would probably feel redundant, and there is a wealth of iconic Scourge locations in Northern EK that could be used for a raid. Not just Stratholme, but Scholomance as well.

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Sure, but there's really not much to tell outside of "The mightiest of the Scourge battle for supremacy" and "The Ebon Blade + The Argent Crusade are dealing with them as best they can". I mean, to make it to where we get a Scourge plot in the midst of a Void invasion? That seems a bit much ngl. At least with Gallywix, that had connections to the Black Blood and the events of TWW.

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Unless you'd want to make Void-infused Scourge entities ofc. That'd be pretty sick.

You could just make it about setting up new necromancers who have set up shop in Straholme or something. Some vague threat like Decatriarch Wratheye that leaves at the end and is avaialble to be used for whatever future content when you need something scourge themed.

[Cheezits]

There is that reasoning. But there is also the fact that having Scourge in TLT would probably feel redundant, and there is a wealth of iconic Scourge locations in Northern EK that could be used for a raid. Not just Stratholme, but Scholomance as well.

...I completely forgot about Scholomance. This would make a LOT of sense considering they randomly introduced a simulacrum version of Kel'Thuzad so shortly after wasting him.

[Viridiel]

You could just make it about setting up new necromancers who have set up shop in Straholme or something. Some vague threat like Decatriarch Wratheye that leaves at the end and is avaialble to be used for whatever future content when you need something scourge themed.

Not what you meant, but I was just about to bring up the fact that according to the cosmological chart, what you get when you combine Death and Void is Decay. Wratheye herself could genuinely be involved. I can't see her being a serious threat, but I could see there being a connection via the Amani. Decay is something I associate heavily with forest trolls, and it would be nice to properly explore the connections between the various "dark" forms of Nature magic--decay, blood, venom, etc.

I really think Stratholme would be a good way to plant some seeds for TLT. There could easily be a dungeon entrance at the back of Deathholme that takes us through to at least a part of Stratholme, demonstrating that someone is leading the Scourge again and they're even more coordinated than they were before Arthas died. We don't necessarily need to go to the Plaguelands or the rest of Lordaeron, though it's a genuine option.

[Dracullus]

...I completely forgot about Scholomance. This would make a LOT of sense considering they randomly introduced a simulacrum version of Kel'Thuzad so shortly after wasting him.

No, it really doesn't. Metzen said 3 things about Midnight: final clash with Void, bringing Elves together and Quel'Thalas/Sunwell. Meanwhile this forum dreams of Scourge expansion in Lordaeron and call concept of High/Blood Elf expansion boring. If that isn't setting yourself up for huge disappointment, I don't know what is.

[Sondrelk]

No, it really doesn't. Metzen said 3 things about Midnight: final clash with Void, bringing Elves together and Quel'Thalas/Sunwell. Meanwhile this forum dreams of Scourge expansion in Lordaeron and call concept of High/Blood Elf expansion boring. If that isn't setting yourself up for huge disappointment, I don't know what is.

I don't see why a Northern EK with Void as the primary threat, Elves as the primary questgivers, and Scourge, Amani, and Arathi/Scarlet Crusade as the individual zone antagonists makes less sense than the expansion that requires scaling up two vanilla sized zones by at least 5 times.

The threats i mentioned are the ones most likely to be in Midnight anyways, even if it was just Quel'thalas. All that changes by making the expansion Northern EK is that we get more iconic zones.

[Dvalin]

I don't see why a Northern EK with Void as the primary threat, Elves as the primary questgivers, and Scourge, Amani, and Arathi/Scarlet Crusade as the individual zone antagonists makes less sense than the expansion that requires scaling up two vanilla sized zones by at least 5 times.

The threats i mentioned are the ones most likely to be in Midnight anyways, even if it was just Quel'thalas. All that changes by making the expansion Northern EK is that we get more iconic zones.

It makes less sense, as the developers have said the following during the reveal/in interviews:
- We'll be explicitly returning to Quel'thalas.
- We'll see 4 zones at launch, etc. The same standard as tWW.
- The upcoming zones will be a 'revisited' version; Familiar, but more zoomed-in, to make room for 'sub'-cultures and the like. And also updated in size to properly support exploration and Dragonflying.

This implies we'll see Quel'thalas, not the rest of Lordaeron.

But regarding enemies: We obviously won't just deal with the Void and its minions. Some Amani warbands are definitely a good option, as well as Scourge warlords from Deatholme. People should just look at past expansions' zones and dungeons to get a good feeling about the variety the developers usually want to pursue.

But Scholomance? Kel'thuzad? The Scarlet Crusade? The Arathi Empire? Nah, not seeing that happen. The latter is also more fitting for a post-Worldsoulsaga expansion, as they've just been seeded in the lore.

[Melorandor]

I will be honest, I don't want Midnight expanded into Lordaeron, and prefer it be focused on Quel'thalas and Elves.

I'd rather see an expansion like Midnight focused on Lordaeron in the near future however.

[Sondrelk]

I will be honest, I don't want Midnight expanded into Lordaeron, and prefer it be focused on Quel'thalas and Elves.

I'd rather see an expansion like Midnight focused on Lordaeron in the near future however.

It would certainly be better. But it's also a massive reach to assume we will get all the old iconic zones revisited within our lifetimes. Even more so if we assume each zone is scaled up to a similar size required to make Quel'thalas work as a single expansion.

I would love nothing more than a Lordaeron focused expansion. I am just not sure I am willing to wait until 2040 to get it. Even more so when the Arathi will be long past by then.
Right now is the best time to have a Northern EK expansion.

[Dvalin]

It would certainly be better. But it's also a massive reach to assume we will get all the old iconic zones revisited within our lifetimes. Even more so if we assume each zone is scaled up to a similar size required to make Quel'thalas work as a single expansion.

I would love nothing more than a Lordaeron focused expansion. I am just not sure I am willing to wait until 2040 to get it. Even more so when the Arathi will be long past by then.
Right now is the best time to have a Northern EK expansion.

But that isn't coming; They haven't announced such a thing. Nothing has been said about some kind of multi-expansion rework of the old world. Just that we return to two specific places, updated and all that, namely Quel'thalas and Northrend.

[Sondrelk]

But that isn't coming; They haven't announced such a thing. Nothing has been said about some kind of multi-expansion rework of the old world. Just that we return to two specific places, updated and all that, namely Quel'thalas and Northrend.

They said we are returning to Quel'thalas and Ulduar. For some reason assuming Ulduar actually means Northrend is all good. But assuming Quel'thalas means the surrounding zones as well is a complete reach. Never got that...

Regardless. It's more about Quel'thalas itself not having enough content at the moment to warrant a full expansion. And if you want to expand, then you have the Amani, Scourge, and Arathi as the obvious candidates. All of whom have perfect zones just outside Quel'thalas.

Also, expanding Quel'thalas means it almost certainly won't be seamless with the rest of EK. Which nullifies one of the big draws with remaking it at all. One of the big ones that players have wanted since TBC.
Maybe it's a small niggle for some, but it is valid to point out that it will make Quel'thalas completely incongruous with the surrounding zones.

[Dracullus]

It would certainly be better. But it's also a massive reach to assume we will get all the old iconic zones revisited within our lifetimes. Even more so if we assume each zone is scaled up to a similar size required to make Quel'thalas work as a single expansion.

I would love nothing more than a Lordaeron focused expansion. I am just not sure I am willing to wait until 2040 to get it. Even more so when the Arathi will be long past by then.
Right now is the best time to have a Northern EK expansion.

You made many assumptions to convince yourself Northern EK expansion is only good choice for 12.0.

No, if 'classic' EK revamp will be separate route, they don't have to split it into 10 expansion, 2 would be fine (imo split on Thandol Span would be perfect), 3 would be plenty. Now add (pretty optimistic, I know) that expansion length is 19 months (no 2.6 in roadmap suggest this as goal for TWW). This way 3rd 'classic' expac would come in 2032. Of course it's made up scenario, just like yours "I won't see end of this in my lifetime", but at least I base it on something.

I won't stop you from dreaming that Midnight will be something more they announced on Blizzcon, we are speculating so anything is possible. I have just one request - please don't spam this thread how dissapointing it is that Midnight is exactly same thing they already announced.

By the way, outside main zones, I think there is big chance that Orgrimmar and Stormwind will be revamped along with neighbourhoods.

They said we are returning to Quel'thalas and Ulduar. For some reason assuming Ulduar actually means Northrend is all good. But assuming Quel'thalas means the surrounding zones as well is a complete reach. Never got that...

"In this chapter, you will again be returning to the Old World, but this time to the wintry lands of Northrend" - actual quote from Metzen.

[Dvalin]

They said we are returning to Quel'thalas and Ulduar. For some reason assuming Ulduar actually means Northrend is all good. But assuming Quel'thalas means the surrounding zones as well is a complete reach. Never got that...

Regardless. It's more about Quel'thalas itself not having enough content at the moment to warrant a full expansion. And if you want to expand, then you have the Amani, Scourge, and Arathi as the obvious candidates. All of whom have perfect zones just outside Quel'thalas.

Also, expanding Quel'thalas means it almost certainly won't be seamless with the rest of EK. Which nullifies one of the big draws with remaking it at all. One of the big ones that players have wanted since TBC.
Maybe it's a small niggle for some, but it is valid to point out that it will make Quel'thalas completely incongruous with the surrounding zones.

Metzen on Midnight: 'In this expansion you'll be returning to the old world, to the fabled lands of Quel'thalas...'
Doesn't sound like Lordaeron to me.

Metzen on the Last Titan: 'In this chapter you'll again be returning to the old world. This time, to the wintery lands of Northrend. And there, at Ulduar, you'll bear witness to the return of the Titans.'

As has been told in interviews, they're upscaling the zones. They'll be more detailled and larger than their 2005 versions. For obvious reasons. So, encountering the Amani and the Scourge as secondary antagonists (after the Void and its minions) is indeed reasonable. But probably within the confines of a Quel'thalas sub-continent. And, yeah, it will probably stay incongruous with the older zones to its south.

[Ersula]

Metzen on Midnight: 'In this expansion you'll be returning to the old world, to the fabled lands of Quel'thalas...'
Doesn't sound like Lordaeron to me.

Yes, but in promoting TWW they didn't say we'd be visiting Undermine either, even though that's the first thing people jumped to when proposing an underground expansion. Same with Legion & Argus. The issue here being if you were to re-attach Silvermoon to the rest of the world map some of Lordaeron would also have to be altered. If that's not a pretense to update lordaeron I don't know what is.

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As has been told in interviews, they're upscaling the zones. They'll be more detailled and larger than their 2005 versions.

They said they'd be "expanding" on Quelthalas. That doesn't necessarily mean making the existing lands bigger. (Again, how the hell do you make the Eversong region physically bigger while also attaching it to the existing Lordaeron?) It's more likely they mean adding new (Island) zones to the west, north and east of Silvermoon.

[Dvalin]

Yes, but in promoting TWW they didn't say we'd be visiting Undermine either, even though that's the first thing people jumped to when proposing an underground expansion. Same with Legion & Argus. The issue here being if you were to re-attach Silvermoon to the rest of the world map some of Lordaeron would also have to be altered. If that's not a pretense to update lordaeron I don't know what is.

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They said they'd be "expanding" on Quelthalas. That doesn't necessarily mean making the existing lands bigger. (Again, how the hell do you make the Eversong region physically bigger while also attaching it to the existing Lordaeron?) It's more likely they mean adding new (Island) zones to the west, north and east of Silvermoon.

I'll be reposting the quote from the interview again:
"We’re giving our world builders some free rein to expand. Those areas may be geographically larger than they were. That’ll give them more opportunities to introduce some of the smaller points of interest where you’ll have a culture or a local tribe and give them the ability to have storylines that center on that. We don’t want people to feel like, oh, wait a minute, it’s that same place I know. It’s gonna feel like the same place; it’s just that it is literally going to be a little bit larger than what you’ve experienced. Flight being much more accessible, we need to have a larger landmass for people to be able to explore.”


Anyway, I'm talking content at launch. Not patch-content. Undermine fits the War Within theme, and a Light/Void 'zone' could be the one for Midnight (maybe even Ka'resh, if we don't visit it in 11.2). Also, the border between a hypothetical (new) Quel'thalas and (old) Lordaeron is not an issue invisible walls/mountains can't fix. Such a version of Quel'thalas would function the same as the myriad of island-continents we've been given over the years.

[Ersula]

I'll be reposting the quote from the interview again:
"We’re giving our world builders some free rein to expand. Those areas may be geographically larger than they were. That’ll give them more opportunities to introduce some of the smaller points of interest where you’ll have a culture or a local tribe and give them the ability to have storylines that center on that. We don’t want people to feel like, oh, wait a minute, it’s that same place I know. It’s gonna feel like the same place; it’s just that it is literally going to be a little bit larger than what you’ve experienced. Flight being much more accessible, we need to have a larger landmass for people to be able to explore.”.

You just said they'd be upscaling the entire zone, which is stupid and not what the above quote describes. Moving a few coastlines & adding islands is still more likely based on what they said.

And nobody was saying a Lordaeron revamp would be coming at launch. Everyone's been proposing it as patch zone content, because they love patch zones for some insufferable reason.

[Dvalin]

You just said they'd be upscaling the entire zone, which is stupid and not what the above quote describes. Moving a few coastlines & adding islands is still more likely based on what they said.

And nobody was saying a Lordaeron revamp would be coming at launch. Everyone's been proposing it as patch zone content, because they love patch zones for some insufferable reason.

What the devs in the interview mention is actual upscaling/the enlarging of zones. I mean, we read the same bit of text, didn't we? Saw the same interviews with the devs, and the same announcements?

Not sure about your second point, too. Plenty of people are (falsely) expecting a Northern EK revamp. That's not patch-content.

[Joshuaj]

I don't think it's entirely unfair to assume people want at least the Plaguelands updated, especially since the expansion itself is about the Void's invasion on Azeroth + the Light's battle with the Void.

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I'll be reposting the quote from the interview again:
"We’re giving our world builders some free rein to expand. Those areas may be geographically larger than they were. That’ll give them more opportunities to introduce some of the smaller points of interest where you’ll have a culture or a local tribe and give them the ability to have storylines that center on that. We don’t want people to feel like, oh, wait a minute, it’s that same place I know. It’s gonna feel like the same place; it’s just that it is literally going to be a little bit larger than what you’ve experienced. Flight being much more accessible, we need to have a larger landmass for people to be able to explore.”


Anyway, I'm talking content at launch. Not patch-content. Undermine fits the War Within theme, and a Light/Void 'zone' could be the one for Midnight (maybe even Ka'resh, if we don't visit it in 11.2). Also, the border between a hypothetical (new) Quel'thalas and (old) Lordaeron is not an issue invisible walls/mountains can't fix. Such a version of Quel'thalas would function the same as the myriad of island-continents we've been given over the years.

I'm gonna keep it 100 with y'all: Please maybe expect a Naga based zone off the coasts of Quel'thalas for 12.1 lol, cause y'all know damn well that might happen.

[Melorandor]

It would certainly be better. But it's also a massive reach to assume we will get all the old iconic zones revisited within our lifetimes. Even more so if we assume each zone is scaled up to a similar size required to make Quel'thalas work as a single expansion.

I would love nothing more than a Lordaeron focused expansion. I am just not sure I am willing to wait until 2040 to get it. Even more so when the Arathi will be long past by then.
Right now is the best time to have a Northern EK expansion.

I think it might be sooner than realized. I think there will be some not so major but not really minor re visitation to Lordaeron during The Last Titan, and maybe Midnight.

I think in Midnight we will probably some stuff happen to the EPL.

[Dvalin]

I don't think it's entirely unfair to assume people want at least the Plaguelands updated, especially since the expansion itself is about the Void's invasion on Azeroth + the Light's battle with the Void.

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I'm gonna keep it 100 with y'all: Please maybe expect a Naga based zone off the coasts of Quel'thalas for 12.1 lol, cause y'all know damn well that might happen.

With Azshara aligning herself with the Void, we might indeed see her during Midnight. Though I don't think the Naga are one of the 'Elven clans' mentioned by Metzen. I think the more 'traditional' elves were meant (Quel'dorei, Sin'dorei, Kal'dorei, Ren'dorei and Shal'dorei).

[Joshuaj]

With Azshara aligning herself with the Void, we might indeed see her during Midnight. Though I don't think the Naga are one of the 'Elven clans' mentioned by Metzen. I think the more 'traditional' elves were meant (Quel'dorei, Sin'dorei, Kal'dorei, Ren'dorei and Shal'dorei).

I think 12.0 will primarily focus on uniting the Elves once more, with 12.1 being focused on the Naga, and 12.2 being focused on the final battle of Renilash.