The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Joshuaj]

It's weird, cause we got nothing today, even tho it's way past noon rn

[Worldshaper]

Do we have any good predictions for 11.1.7? I feel like this patch will be notable, since it'll set the stage for the rest of TWW.

Here's my guess:

• Announced Wednesday next week, PTR the same night or at least before the weekend.
• Released June 24th.
• Pandaren Heritage armour set (to go with MoP Classic).
• New character customisation for the Pandaren.
• Sets the stage for for Ethereal raid and "Rootlands" zone with a cool questline and some world events. Questline involves discovering more about the dead Old Gods, the Black Blood and the legacy of life and death left behind deep below.
• Turbulent Timeways returns.
• Something a little unexpected such as Brawler's Guild, Mage Tower, or an new similar feature for Delves.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

I think its a fools' errand to equate anything massive in a minor x.7 patch after we got timegated to desertification with 11.1.5.

It probably will be some small fun goofs like 11.1.5 provided that aren't too intensive to develop if anything that are also timegated.

[Alanar]

Xal is a fantastic WoW antagonist. She enjoys what she does, she has personality, she's smart- but she also fucks up, often, in ways that make the plot a lot of fun. Consider that this is the first entry in a saga she is apparently continually in, and she has already got punked twice in each patch.

Sure, the bar is low after Zovaal. But Iridikron was a nice change of pace (straight up leaving the expansion for his own goals) and Xal is even better.

Fyrakk was boring. But also not the real villain.

None of these villains are great tbh. The bar aint high, but doesnt mean she is a good villain.

[Reive]

this patch is a mess + there seems to be a lack of news/content. might be a good time to take a break

[Joshuaj]

Xal is a fantastic WoW antagonist. She enjoys what she does, she has personality, she's smart- but she also fucks up, often, in ways that make the plot a lot of fun. Consider that this is the first entry in a saga she is apparently continually in, and she has already got punked twice in each patch.

Sure, the bar is low after Zovaal. But Iridikron was a nice change of pace (straight up leaving the expansion for his own goals) and Xal is even better.

Fyrakk was boring. But also not the real villain.

Fantastic? She's been getting bitched on since this expac started. Legit her only W was her destroying Dalaran. That's it.

Say what you will about Zovaal, but he at least kept winning.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

None of these villains are great tbh. The bar aint high, but doesnt mean she is a good villain.

I don't understand where this rhetoric even came from, it assumes that The Worldsoul Saga is real when it could just be marketing. Xal'ataths' character losing twice in the manner she did so frequentially is not congruent with her character at all. It feels like a lot of this is just trying to brush over the fact the Narrative Team refuses to characterize their A Plot characters in a manner to engage and excite players and instead leaving them as questionmarks doing questionmark things with questionmark objects which again is the same pitfall that lead to Zovaal's story becoming the maximized poison effect that N'zoth had on anyone caring about this property. (Oh and the amount of time where we're just static with this story is insane when you consider where we are narratively, its' actually borderline insane that the criticism about WoW's pace has somehow gotten even worse.)

(Disclaimer: Yes, sure her arrogance works as the excuse for the damaged Dark Heart. But, when you recognize they damaged the heart solely so they could create the off ramp to Midnight it doesn't really feel as good of an excuse anymore now does it? The Undermine(d) events does not however at all make any sense with her character letting a Goblin and then a Ethereal take it to fucking Narnia without any supervision.)

Hell, at least Zovaal got to the Sepulcher with his plan wholly intact only to lose because of esoteric coping mechanism theories by lore fans who cared about this universe that explain why he lost.

It seems like a lot of criticism just gets the "Well, Metzen starts his job with Midnight" which fails to recognize that the Saga started with The War Within not Midnight.

[Joshuaj]

"Metzen started his job with Midnight" mfs when you ask them how the Primal Incarnates came to be, or why TWW has Jaina, Thrall, etc in it (All of these were Metzen's additions)

[Khaza-R]

I wouldn't really call Azir stealing the dark heart from Gallywix an L on Xal's behalf. It just demonstates she isn't basically omniscient like N'zoth and Zovaal were portrayed as being. And conversely made their defeats even more stupid and unsatisfying.

Taunting Alleria leading to her breaking the dark heart was an L and in-character. Her entire personality in Legion is snide and self-assured. So Alleria taking advantage of that makes sense.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

this patch is a mess + there seems to be a lack of news/content. might be a good time to take a break

You know what, you're right. This is just getting silly at this point and at the end of the day, its best to just get the clarity with the final Major Patch.

Instead of wallowing in the fact nothing ever gets better in this department, I'm going to look forward to the Exterior update for Housing.

[Nymrohd]

I wouldn't really call Azir stealing the dark heart from Gallywix an L on Xal's behalf. It just demonstates she isn't basically omniscient like N'zoth and Zovaal were portrayed as being. And conversely made their defeats even more stupid and unsatisfying.

Taunting Alleria leading to her breaking the dark heart was an L and in-character. Her entire personality in Legion is snide and self-assured. So Alleria taking advantage of that makes sense.

It absolutely is a loss. You care about the Dark Heart and you just leave it with the goblins without having your people keep an eye on it?

[Reive]

You know what, you're right. This is just getting silly at this point and at the end of the day, its best to just get the clarity with the final Major Patch.

Instead of wallowing in the fact nothing ever gets better in this department, I'm going to look forward to the Exterior update for Housing.

housing news are the things i'm looking forward the most. 11.2 as well but we'll have to wait at least a month for that

[Alanar]

You know what, you're right. This is just getting silly at this point and at the end of the day, its best to just get the clarity with the final Major Patch.

Instead of wallowing in the fact nothing ever gets better in this department, I'm going to look forward to the Exterior update for Housing.

I mean, ye not much going on, So I agree with him. I took a break as well. Tww hasn't been interesting in general imo, but this Nightfall patch.. I am glad I haven't touched it yet. Realistically it's just more of the same as well tbh. In other words, Boring.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't understand where this rhetoric even came from, it assumes that The Worldsoul Saga is real when it could just be marketing. Xal'ataths' character losing twice in the manner she did so frequentially is not congruent with her character at all. It feels like a lot of this is just trying to brush over the fact the Narrative Team refuses to characterize their A Plot characters in a manner to engage and excite players and instead leaving them as questionmarks doing questionmark things with questionmark objects which again is the same pitfall that lead to Zovaal's story becoming the maximized poison effect that N'zoth had on anyone caring about this property. (Oh and the amount of time where we're just static with this story is insane when you consider where we are narratively, its' actually borderline insane that the criticism about WoW's pace has somehow gotten even worse.)

(Disclaimer: Yes, sure her arrogance works as the excuse for the damaged Dark Heart. But, when you recognize they damaged the heart solely so they could create the off ramp to Midnight it doesn't really feel as good of an excuse anymore now does it? The Undermine(d) events does not however at all make any sense with her character letting a Goblin and then a Ethereal take it to fucking Narnia without any supervision.)

Hell, at least Zovaal got to the Sepulcher with his plan wholly intact only to lose because of esoteric coping mechanism theories by lore fans who cared about this universe that explain why he lost.

It seems like a lot of criticism just gets the "Well, Metzen starts his job with Midnight" which fails to recognize that the Saga started with The War Within not Midnight.

She just isn't interesting to keep it short, it's also not something new. Seen many people stating the same thing. Like I said, the bar isn't even high and they still didn't manage to keep the player engaged with her. We had a couple of fails and the famous ''Muahaha see you next time'' and some stupid things such as the dark heart that she lost.. I have yet to see were it seems she is a great villain. I don;t think it's coming either.

To each and their own I suppose, but Denathrius (for example, one of the last decent villains) at least had charm and you wanted to see more of him. I don't even care if we see more of her tbh.

[Khaza-R]

It absolutely is a loss. You care about the Dark Heart and you just leave it with the goblins without having your people keep an eye on it?

Honestly its a bit too early to judge that story. We really don't know anything about Azir yet.

We know the Shadowguard have been working with Xal since the beginning of the expansion. Its hinted the Etheriumm might be involved too and have different motives.

Is Azir part of the Etherium or perhaps he's a Shadowguard who went rogue. Either way its a fairly plausible why Gallywix failed in that particular moment. It also potentially adds dimensions to a very one-dimensional plot. I don't really know why people are hating on it when its one of the more interesting things to happen in WoW lore since MoP.

[Ersula]

Honestly its a bit too early to judge that story. We really don't know anything about Azir yet.

We know the Shadowguard have been working with Xal since the beginning of the expansion. Its hinted the Etheriumm might be involved too and have different motives.

Is Azir part of the Etherium or perhaps he's a Shadowguard who went rogue. Either way its a fairly plausible why Gallywix failed in that particular moment. It also potentially adds dimensions to a very one-dimensional plot. I don't really know why people are hating on it when its one of the more interesting things to happen in WoW lore since MoP.

Except we don't know that. This is why I don't think Dimensius & Xal are friends or working together. Nexus-Princess Ky'veza isn't there to help Xal or the Nerubians.... she's there to spy on them. And this is why Xalatath doesn't exclaim "the Etherium have the artifact" she just says "the Ethereals" and visually, the Ethereal who took it is definitely a Shadowguard not an Etherium; so they're working against her.

They both want Azeroth, not for the void in a cosmic, existential sense; they want it for themselves & they can't both have it.

[Enrif]

Except we don't know that. This is why I don't think Dimensius & Xal are friends or working together. Nexus-Princess Ky'veza isn't there to help Xal or the Nerubians.... she's there to spy on them. And this is why she doesn't exclaim "the Etherium have the artifact" she just says "the Ethereals" and visually, the Ethereal who took it is definitely a Shadowguard not an Etherium; so they're working against her.

They both want Azeroth, not for the void in a cosmic, existential sense; they want it for themselves & they can't both have it.

nothing in Azirs getup marks him as a Shadowguard. Ky'veza, sure she shares the same void model that the shadowguard uses. But Azir is not having the look of a shadowuard: that being the solid shadow energies inside the bandages. Azir has the classic etheral energy, not shadow

[Khaza-R]

Except we don't know that. This is why I don't think Dimensius & Xal are friends or working together. Nexus-Princess Ky'veza isn't there to help Xal or the Nerubians.... she's there to spy on them. And this is why Xalatath doesn't exclaim "the Etherium have the artifact" she just says "the Ethereals" and visually, the Ethereal who took it is definitely a Shadowguard not an Etherium; so they're working against her.

They both want Azeroth, not for the void in a cosmic, existential sense; they want it for themselves & they can't both have it.

We do though. Go replay the Harbinger questline.

You hunt for the lost riftwalker. You find she defected to Xal'atath. The Shadowguard are helping her try to break into Ulduar. Later they invade Telogrus which you stop. The Shadowguard are aligned with Xal. We don't know where the other Ethereals stand.

It seems to me that the Etherium fractured at some point after TBC. There are probably some who are became Shadowguard and loyal to Dimensius. And there are others who probably resist them and will become our allies in the future.

[Eldryth]

As others have pointed out, the Shadowguard were working with Xal'atath during the Harbinger questline at the end of Dragonflight. The Ethereals we've met in TWW clearly are not- if they were on the same side, Ky'veza wouldn't have needed to infiltrate the palace in secret, and Azir clearly stole the Dark Heart from her. Therefore, they're clearly a different faction. And the secret tie unlock tied to her trinket all but states that they're the Ethereum (since an Ethereum Void Reaper sometimes spawns and attacks you if you use her Treacherous Transmitter in the open world), who were previously obsessed with destroying Dimensius.



On another note, that recent talk about Xal'atath reminded me of something that could be important later on in the Saga. I'd assumed that we'd deal with the Void in Midnight and have to fight the Titans in TLT for diverging from their plans, but Xal'atath had a pretty ominous interaction with the Pantheon back in Legion.

When you bring her knife into the Seat of the Pantheon, she said this:

Long have we sought entry into this realm! To think we have a mortal to thank for giving us our foothold. Your service will be remembered!

So because we used Xal'atath against the Legion, she gained access to the Seat of the Pantheon. She considered this an enormous victory for the Void, and even said that the Void has a foothold there because of us. So, unless this turns out to be completely unimportant... what has the Void been doing there for all those years since Legion? As much as I'd like to interact their true selves, I'm starting to wonder if we might find them corrupted when they finally return- we think we're succeeding in pushing back the Void, and that the Pantheon is coming to our aid, only for a twisted version of them to join the invasion.

I guess even in that scenario we could still learn about their past at least, maybe speak to memory backups or something at least. Not sure what a twist like that would mean for their big conspiracy that's been getting built up though.

[Joshuaj]

As others have pointed out, the Shadowguard were working with Xal'atath during the Harbinger questline at the end of Dragonflight. The Ethereals we've met in TWW clearly are not- if they were on the same side, Ky'veza wouldn't have needed to infiltrate the palace in secret, and Azir clearly stole the Dark Heart from her. Therefore, they're clearly a different faction. And the secret tie unlock tied to her trinket all but states that they're the Ethereum (since an Ethereum Void Reaper sometimes spawns and attacks you if you use her Treacherous Transmitter in the open world), who were previously obsessed with destroying Dimensius.



On another note, that recent talk about Xal'atath reminded me of something that could be important later on in the Saga. I'd assumed that we'd deal with the Void in Midnight and have to fight the Titans in TLT for diverging from their plans, but Xal'atath had a pretty ominous interaction with the Pantheon back in Legion.

When you bring her knife into the Seat of the Pantheon, she said this:


So because we used Xal'atath against the Legion, she gained access to the Seat of the Pantheon. She considered this an enormous victory for the Void, and even said that the Void has a foothold there because of us. So, unless this turns out to be completely unimportant... what has the Void been doing there for all those years since Legion? As much as I'd like to interact their true selves, I'm starting to wonder if we might find them corrupted when they finally return- we think we're succeeding in pushing back the Void, and that the Pantheon is coming to our aid, only for a twisted version of them to join the invasion.

I guess even in that scenario we could still learn about their past at least, maybe speak to memory backups or something at least. Not sure what a twist like that would mean for their big conspiracy that's been getting built up though.

I think she meant "a foothold" as in "The Titans have been dealt with, the Light's been pushed back, and the Legion's been defeated? This is perfect! Now we have a foothold to build from in claiming Azeroth, all we have to do now is free N'Zoth".

After N'Zoth's defeat, the Void had to try and regain a proper foothold on Azeroth, which is why: A. Xal'atath is doing her thing in TWW. And B. Azshara is seemingly with the Void Lords (Likely for Midnight tbh).

[Black Rider]

11.2 on PTR next week maybe?