The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Nymrohd]

I am really wondering why you are all so overhyped about Midnight. Like, I don't know if they can actually deliver the level of hype some of you people are projecting even if they deliver something on the level of MoP or Legion. And I am not seeing them deliver beyond that level.

We don't even know the story or the full extent of the setting yet. Most of the expansions that had four (not counting fated) seasons had at least one season that was completely filler when it came to the story and/or quality of the raid (heck Wrath had TWO).

[Ersula]

I am really wondering why you are all so overhyped about Midnight. Like, I don't know if they can actually deliver the level of hype some of you people are projecting even if they deliver something on the level of MoP or Legion. And I am not seeing them deliver beyond that level.

I mean it better. We're in WoD mode rn playing in the dirt-themed-expansion. And we're expecting a Legion.

[Nymrohd]

I mean it better. We're in WoD mode rn playing in the dirt-themed-expansion. And we're expecting a Legion.

I am sorry but this is completely unfair. TWW is in no way comparable with WoD. It has far more content and activities to do and a vastly better reward structure (the dinar and trinket situation notwithstanding). If we did not know that Quel'thalas revamp was following I doubt it would be received like this. Heck the fact that the way they revealed the Saga makes it so easy to believe that TWW's story was effectively scrapped and we are playing what they could cobble together from that shows that the trilogy reveal concept was not a good idea.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

Just like WoD, this expansion has a single minded focus on the thing that gets us to the next expansion. AU Gul'dan/The Dark Heart (McGuffin). I think its' pretty evident that this expansion only exists because it was a mid production product rather than any actual real interest in the Underground environment of Azeroth.

It's a off ramp expansion to get us out of here, whether that means the issues present in The War Within continue to exist in Midnight or not is where the debate really is at this point.

[Dvalin]

I am sorry but this is completely unfair. TWW is in no way comparable with WoD. It has far more content and activities to do and a vastly better reward structure (the dinar and trinket situation notwithstanding). If we did not know that Quel'thalas revamp was following I doubt it would be received like this. Heck the fact that the way they revealed the Saga makes it so easy to believe that TWW's story was effectively scrapped and we are playing what they could cobble together from that shows that the trilogy reveal concept was not a good idea.

By the way, I doubt we're able to notice the impact Metzen has had on scrapped/changed content, as he took office 10 months into the development of tWW. Which is earlier than pre-production. It wouldn't have been too hard to change direction a bit at that stage of development.

Anyway, I also fullheartedly agree with your take on WoD. That was an absolute bore/drought of nothingness. World-content was abysmal/non-existing. As were the patches.

With tWW we know we're getting one more big patch. With WoD we didn't get anything by this point in its lifetime. Its development was a Hell.

[Nymrohd]

By the way, I doubt we're able to notice the impact Metzen has had on scrapped/changed content, as he took office 10 months into the development of tWW. Which is earlier than pre-production. It wouldn't have been too hard to change direction a bit at that stage of development.

Anyway, I also fullheartedly agree with your take on WoD. That was an absolute bore/drought of nothingness. World-content was abysmal/non-existing. As were the patches.

With tWW we know we're getting one more big patch. With WoD we didn't get anything by this point in its lifetime. Its development was a Hell.

I agree with you on not knowing what the impact with development was. But they intentionally built this narrative for TWW through their interviews. They told us they had to make changes in late DF so we can assume this also impacts TWW since these should be in development concurrently. Then they give us Midnight next and spend multiple interviews hyping the next expansion well before we would ever have had an expansion reveal. You are absolutely right that we cannot know but they have manipulated us to make excuses for the story being flacid because "Midnight is coming next!" It's not about what actually happened but about the story of the development they allowed to be built. What about now?

[Dracullus]

I am really wondering why you are all so overhyped about Midnight. Like, I don't know if they can actually deliver the level of hype some of you people are projecting even if they deliver something on the level of MoP or Legion. And I am not seeing them deliver beyond that level.

We don't even know the story or the full extent of the setting yet. Most of the expansions that had four (not counting fated) seasons had at least one season that was completely filler when it came to the story and/or quality of the raid (heck Wrath had TWO).

You say like beating Legion was hard thing. Currently WoW has better content, reward structure and patch cadence. Broken Shore is joke compared to Undermine. Only advantage Legion still has is culmination of story builded over years. So it's nothing strange people have expectations.

But of course dreaming of 4 tiers since Blizzard is capable of making new expansion in 20 months is ridiculous.

[Nymrohd]

You say like beating Legion was hard thing. Currently WoW has better content, reward structure and patch cadence. Broken Shore is joke compared to Undermine. Only advantage Legion still has is culmination of story builded over years. So it's nothing strange people have expectations.

But of course dreaming of 4 tiers since Blizzard is capable of making new expansion in 20 months is ridiculous.

I'd say that the design now is indeed better (though 11.1.5 is taking the weirdest wrong turn for no good reason). But there is something about content being cool. Which is entirely subjective, I know. But I felt Legion was just . . . cool.

And I really don't need 4 tiers. Not if one of the tiers will be Naxx 25, or ToC, or EN, or Uldir and invariably at least one tier was always filler.

[Khaza-R]

Ah, we're back to the old "expansions I don't like are clearly filler content"

Never change MMO-C

[Dracullus]

But there is something about content being cool. Which is entirely subjective, I know. But I felt Legion was just . . . cool.

That's what I called "culmination of the story builded over years". Undermine is better written and designed, but single Broken Shore cinematic obviously create more hype, because it's Kil'jaeden talking with Sargeras and coming for our world. In TWW so far only Dalaran intro and campaign end (not first raid) felt like being part of some grand Saga.

Midnight definitely has potential for big hype - defending Sunwell, probably direct confrontation with Xalatath, but I see even bigger potential in Last Titan - Sword, Ulduar, Illidan, Titans.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

Ah, we're back to the old "expansions I don't like are clearly filler content"

Never change MMO-C

I mean, I love WoD's original concept and I think The War Within is a really cool concept. Its' just a shame again that instead they railroad the expansions to getting out of the expansion which ultimately I heavily dislike whenever they do because it devalues the expansion pack and takes it for granted that they shouldn't get out of pre-production on concepts and ideas they don't want to execute on.

I think the original premise of exploring the underground of Azeroth and standing at the precipice of the World Soul would've been really cool and especially within the context where there was a bit more mystery tied to what happened to N'zoth and the Old Gods than just being repeatedly told by the Warcraft Team that they are dead.

Obviously, we don't know what Steve Danusers' original plan for this expansion was. Maybe it was to ressurect or at least redeem N'zoth (or maybe something entirely different, who knows) and then Metzen and them changed it to a Warlords of Draenor AU Gul'danification with the Dark Heart being frisbee'd to the locations for the expansion so they could easily make sure that Midnight bangs. At the end of the day, we have no Narrative Team representatives and what we're being told by Leadership are gaslit lies about current status quo, so in the end it is what it is.

(To be fair, if the plan was to use fan favorite underground location in Undermine and then ending on a fan favorite remains of a planet with K'aresh its' not the worst way to develop a expansion they didn't care about even if it basically curves the whole Underground concept entirely. It's just maybe don't make this happen in the first place is my question at that point? lol?)

World of Warcraft never fails on the conceptual standpoint, we fail on the execution standpoint and a lot of the time it is meddling from people unrelated to development that at the end of the day make these products have less value than they should have.

[Nymrohd]

Ah, we're back to the old "expansions I don't like are clearly filler content"

Never change MMO-C

I did not say "expansions" are filler content. I said specific raid tiers. Most expansion themes supported 2-3 strong concepts and then they had to fill in with something weaker.

[Khaza-R]

I did not say "expansions" are filler content. I said specific raid tiers. Most expansion themes supported 2-3 strong concepts and then they had to fill in with something weaker.

I wasn't referring to your post to be clear. I was talking about people comparing TWW to WoD.

Which is ridiculous. Even WoD didn't start out as "filler". It was part of an expertimental cycle to push out expansions faster. But we know that didn't work out and the expansion suffered for it. There's really nothing suggesting the same is happening with TWW.

People just want to believe that whatever doesn't fit their idea of what WoW is, must be filler since clearly Blizzard only caters to them and their tastes

[Nymrohd]

I wasn't referring to your post to be clear. I was talking about people comparing TWW to WoD.

Which is ridiculous. Even WoD didn't start out as "filler". It was part of an expertimental cycle to push out expansions faster. But we know that didn't work out and the expansion suffered for it. There's really nothing suggesting the same is happening with TWW.

People just want to believe that whatever doesn't fit their idea of what WoW is, must be filler since clearly Blizzard only caters to them and their tastes

Oh Ok. Sorry, misunderstood because I think I was the one who used the word Filler here. But yeah I agree, comparing it with WoD is ludicrous.
TWW is a perfectly fine expansion. I don't think it is amazing but many people do so it clearly has its charm. And I do think we have had a week of bad decisions by Blizzard with 11.1.5 release schedule and with the way they handled Dinars which is worrying me. But even if TWW crashes and burns from now on, it would still be better than WoD simply because it will have things to do.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

I wasn't referring to your post to be clear. I was talking about people comparing TWW to WoD.

Which is ridiculous. Even WoD didn't start out as "filler". It was part of an expertimental cycle to push out expansions faster. But we know that didn't work out and the expansion suffered for it. There's really nothing suggesting the same is happening with TWW.

People just want to believe that whatever doesn't fit their idea of what WoW is, must be filler since clearly Blizzard only caters to them and their tastes

Well, it'd be cool if just like WoD they didn't do this but unfortunately they went a bit further this time around.

[Khaza-R]

Well, it'd be cool if just like WoD they didn't do this but unfortunately they went a bit further this time around.

In what way do you think the development of TWW is similar to WoD?

[Nymrohd]

A housing blog! maybe that will fix my mood

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

In what way do you think the development of TWW is similar to WoD?

No, I meant that in the fact that you're completely oblivious to the status quo of the development of this game. We're far beyond the Warlords of Draenor "speeding up" being stopped by executives at Blizzard Entertainment back then.

You should educate yourself on what the development of the game is at the current, because holy fuck the fact you wrote that without having a lightbulb moment is deeply saddening.

Anyways, yay housing blog.

[Makabreska]

No, I meant that in the fact that you're completely oblivious to the status quo of the development of this game. We're far beyond the Warlords of Draenor "speeding up" being stopped by executives at Blizzard Entertainment back then.

You should educate yourself on what the development of the game is at the current, because holy fuck the fact you wrote that without having a lightbulb moment is deeply saddening.

My man, you are the guy who multiple times in the past said he cannot wait to see WoW "crash and burn". Why do you think peeps challenge your wild claims and supposed "behind the scenes" knowledge?

[Ersula]

Ah, we're back to the old "expansions I don't like are clearly filler content"

Never change MMO-C

I mean, even while WoD was happening people suspected that some of the production that would normally go into the current expansion was shifted into the next expansion, and that suspicion turned out to be completely true.

People thought that might be what they were doing with Dragonflight, but that wasn't true....but that feeling is even stronger now in TWW. It's like "Oh Dragonflight wasn't a filler expansion, this is a filler expansion" Time Rifts & a Mega Dungeon does not compare to a glorified worldquest that's still broken & recycled content from BFA.