The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Nymrohd]

I think misconception people have about the "A & B team" is that there's the same groups of people that alternate the development of entire expansions. That's just not a thing. As far as I've been able to track down through research into Blizzard's development process, all (recent) WoW expansions go through the same development pipeline with the same teams through all of their stages.

I think it's better to see patches and expansions as a set of tasks. Patches will have a lower amount of tasks that need doing and expansions have way more, so there's always going to people working on expansions while there's also people working on patches. That doesn't mean the person working on the future expansion is going to work on the expansion after that right after they're done, it just depends on what tasks there are.

For example, there will be artists working on models for patch 11.2 while other artists might be working on models for 12.0 or even late 12.x+ and once someone could be done with a certain thing/set they'll pick up whatever is next from the pile. It's far more complex than a team A/B situation thing.

Obviously there's different spectrums of certain teams being further in the future than others. e.g. the visual development team will generally be working further into the future than the team doing the smaller features for the live game, but even inside those teams there will be people working on various different stages of things.

There is actually this awesome infographic somewhere in the internet that parsed the credits for each expansion and tracks developers from WC1 all the way to Dragonflight. I think there is three people who've been involved in EVERYTHING.

[Joshuaj]

And who made this infographic?

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

Assumptively the Bloomberg article seems to indicate that theres a Live Team that works on the Live Version of the game and then 2 teams working on the next two expansions. Do I know if that is factually true? No, is that what was written in the newsletter portion by Jason Schreier wiho directly quotes Holly Longdale? Yes. (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsl...ter-expansions)

[Nymrohd]

Assumptively the Bloomberg article seesm to indicate that theres a Live Team that works on the Live Version of the game and then 2 teams working on the next two expansions. Do I know if that is factually true? No, is that what was written in the newsletter portion by Jason Schreier wiho directly quotes Holly Longdale.

The thing is, those teams are versatile and people switch between them. From an operations management and project management perspective, there very much are teams assigned to projects. But from a human resources perspective, developers move to the team that needs them.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

The thing is, those teams are versatile and people switch between them. From an operations management and project management perspective, there very much are teams assigned to projects. But from a human resources perspective, developers move to the team that needs them.

Sure, they can be multi-roled and most likely are multi-roled in their jobs. Especially because 1 person is better than 2.

[Ersula]

No Expansion in WoW is filler. They ALL deal with major events.

The definition of filler here is when the developers pull resources & work that would normally go into the upcoming & present expansion & put them into the followup expansion. Which they have admitted happened during WoD for Legion...

So it's not a wild accusation to say that's what happening now. In fact, the way they talk about Midnight makes it sound like that's what's going on. They're not even trying to hide it the way they did during WoD.

Based off all these settings alone, The War Within does NOT sound like a filler expac. If anything, Dragonflight sounds more like a filler expac than TWW lol.

Yeah, and people have said that during Dragonflight and in this thread: "TWW isn't filler" is sounding a lot like "TWW won't have less content than dragonflight" even comparatively, yes, at this point, TWW has less content than Dragonflight, its like night and day.

You all gaslit the hell out of me when TWW was announced that the amount of content we were getting was shrinking and the discrepency between TWW and Dragonflight is way larger than Legion, BFA & Shadowlands. It's blatant.

All that is understandable if Midnight really is going to be an expansion on Legion's level, but if this trend continues we all should pack it in.

[Marlamin]

Assumptively the Bloomberg article seesm to indicate that theres a Live Team that works on the Live Version of the game and then 2 teams working on the next two expansions. Do I know if that is factually true? No, is that what was written in the newsletter portion by Jason Schreier wiho directly quotes Holly Longdale.

The thing is, those teams are versatile and people switch between them. From an operations management and project management perspective, there very much are teams assigned to projects. But from a human resources perspective, developers move to the team that needs them.

I think from Holly's perspective putting it like that it is correct since I assume she'd mostly be working with project leads which will stay on a thing for far longer than on a single things than most devs would. I'm sure there's different project leads per expansion down to the granularity of different leads per zone/major feature, but most of the people involved in making WoW will be those that work on various things at various stages of development. Hell, I'm sure some people are already hard at work stuff meant for after the world soul saga (and a group of people is after all, a team). That's just the way development goes. I'm just saying it is far more nuanced than the silly team A/B thing from years ago.

[Dvalin]

Ironically, 11.2 will decide how TWW is received in the long run. If it's Rootlands, it'll keep the current vibe. If it's Ka'resh it will be significant.

If it's something else? Coinflip.

Depends on what the Rootlands are. It could be an amazing zone with good content and amazing aesthetics, tied with some sort of raid involving the Ethereals and the core of the world. Who knows.

Anyway, we should all wait and see how 11.2 turns out before calling TWW 'filler', or comparable to WoD (which didn't really have a second big patch - and the first one was revisiting Tanaan Jungle).

K'aresh feels more like content for Midnight, to me. Or background-stuff for a raid.

[Limayria]

Depends on what the Rootlands are. It could be an amazing zone with good content and amazing aesthetics, tied with some sort of raid involving the Ethereals and the core of the world. Who knows.

Anyway, we should all wait and see how 11.2 turns out before calling TWW 'filler', or comparable to WoD (which didn't really have a second big patch - and the first one was revisiting Tanaan Jungle).

K'aresh feels more like content for Midnight, to me. Or background-stuff for a raid.

11.2 being the set up of the story characters learning the dark heart is on karesh and establishing us finding a way to get there makes sense to me

[huth]

The definition of filler here is when the developers pull resources & work that would normally go into the upcoming & present expansion & put them into the followup expansion. Which they have admitted happened during WoD for Legion...

No, the definition of filler is extra episodes produced while the animators wait for the original artist to catch up.

Since in this case, the creator is the one making everything, filler does not apply. WoW cannot have filler expansions. That is only possible in derivative products.

[Ersula]

No, the definition of filler is extra episodes produced while the animators wait for the original artist to catch up.

Since in this case, the creator is the one making everything, filler does not apply. WoW cannot have filler expansions. That is only possible in derivative products.

then you're the one who's being pedantic, because you're using an overly semantic definition. When we're criticizing it for being it filler, and we've explained our definition, and that definition is true, you saying "that isn't filler" isn't adding anything to the conversation. TWW is a holdover expansion for midnight no matter what word you use to describe it.

[huth]

then you're the one who's being pedantic, because you're using an overly semantic definition. When we're criticizing it for being it filler, and we've explained our definition, and that definition is true, you saying "that isn't filler" isn't adding anything to the conversation. TWW is a holdover expansion for midnight no matter what word you use to describe it.

Your definition is so broad as to be functionally useless, so it can be ignored.

[Ersula]

Your definition is so broad as to be functionally useless, so it can be ignored.

Blizzard: Midnight is so amazing we're working on it right now, please ignore that the seasonal tww content sucks and is broken
You: everything is fine

[Joshuaj]

The definition of filler here is when the developers pull resources & work that would normally go into the upcoming & present expansion & put them into the followup expansion. Which they have admitted happened during WoD for Legion...

So it's not a wild accusation to say that's what happening now. In fact, the way they talk about Midnight makes it sound like that's what's going on. They're not even trying to hide it the way they did during WoD.Yeah, and people have said that during Dragonflight and in this thread: "TWW isn't filler" is sounding a lot like "TWW won't have less content than dragonflight" even comparatively, yes, at this point, TWW has less content than Dragonflight, its like night and day.

You all gaslit the hell out of me when TWW was announced that the amount of content we were getting was shrinking and the discrepency between TWW and Dragonflight is way larger than Legion, BFA & Shadowlands. It's blatant.

All that is understandable if Midnight really is going to be an expansion on Legion's level, but if this trend continues we all should pack it in.

Is that actually the case though, or are you just speculating? Also, that's not what filler means. The term you're looking for is "abandoned".

Nobody gaslit you either. A lot of us genuinely believed that TWW would have the same content as DF, cause there was no reason to believe otherwise. Heck, even now, it seems like TWW might have somewhat relative content to DF. Sure, there's no mega-dungeon midway through the expac, but 11.1 still gave us a dungeon and a new arena lol.

Also, y'all are gonna be pretty upset when Midnight also follows the 2 patch formula with 1 new raid and 1 new zone each patch lol.

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Blizzard: Midnight is so amazing we're working on it right now, please ignore that the seasonal tww content sucks and is broken
You: everything is fine

What makes you think Midnight won't go through a similar ordeal? And what makes you think y'all won't have this same excuse for TLT?

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It's not gaslighting if this negative mid-expansion trend is real, and has been occurring for the past 15 years now.

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then you're the one who's being pedantic, because you're using an overly semantic definition. When we're criticizing it for being it filler, and we've explained our definition, and that definition is true, you saying "that isn't filler" isn't adding anything to the conversation. TWW is a holdover expansion for midnight no matter what word you use to describe it.

Because it's not filler. You're talking about "abandoned expansions", even though nothing's implied that TWW's been abandoned yet.

- - - Updated - - -

Could it be true? Maybe. Is it true? Not from what we know.

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11.2 being the set up of the story characters learning the dark heart is on karesh and establishing us finding a way to get there makes sense to me

Wouldn't this be a massive change of course in regards to the setting though? Cause TWW was talked about as the underground expac, the expac where we explore the heart of the world. Idk, us going to K'aresh in 11.2 would feel very...incongruous in comparison to everything we've seen in the expac so far.

[Worldshaper]

Small off-topic, but holy cow MMO-Champion is spamming the ads these days. I counted 11 ads on this page alone. Not only are they annoying and distracting, but it's also way too easy to miss-click ads when the entire page jumps as it finishes loading.

OK, back on topic.

Do we have any more sort of "unresolved" mounts, pets and other models that were added in the last few years, seemingly belonging to some major theme but then nothing else came from it?

I'm thinking, for example of the weird Sunwarmed Furline cat in the store, as well as those little rocky dinosaur from Ulderoth ("Titan Utopia"), the Briarthorn Hatchling? Not to mention that Chinese dragon/crocodilisk-looking pet we saw back in January.

The Briarthorn Hatchling kind of reminds me of the Haranir aesthetic. It has big frond-like leaves, similar to the ones found on Haranir dwellings. Briarthorn, of course, is a thorny herb players can collect and which also reminds you a lot of the whole Haranir theme.

Could that be a clue, perhaps? In the sense that "Rootlands" might be a zone where two forces clash: Life and Order. Resulting in both primal life forms like the Haranir, but also ones more affected by the Titans via Eonar, turning them rocky and "orderly"?

Maybe there's a sort of tug and pull between differences forces, including Life, Order, Shadow, and the worldsoul going on down there. The roots and the black blood obviously influence things as well.

Apparently, the mobs in the Ulderoth Time Rift in DF come from Sholazar Basin and Un'Goro, as well as the Vale of Eternal Blossoms. There's sort of a clash between primal forces of life and the Titanic Watchers going on in there, which also fits with what the "Rootlands" might entail.

Hypothetical scenario regarding the "Rootlands":

The forces of the Void used to control the worldsoul.

Deep beneath Khaz Algar, the roots of Elun'ahir reached deep into the world. While Aman'thul tore the tree down, the roots remained. Maybe they gave the Old Gods access to the worldsoul, or perhaps they protected it from them. Perhaps absorbing its corrupting influences out of the worldsoul and into its own roots? Who knows.

The Titans took control of Azeroth and built all their facilities, the Manifold. Perhaps Uldaz is a facility nearby, meant to oversee this location? It probably fell to corruption or into neglect and disrepair over time. But all of these forces, combined, create an interesting mix of forces influencing life down there.

Freya essentially went there to ensure things did not spin wildly out of control. When she no longer could, others assumed that role (the Haranir), who share a deep connection to the worldsoul.

Now, we might be left with a wild and savage place full of things like huge mushrooms, thorns, and plants. Primal creatures like dinosaurs, some of whic have been corrupted by Order and Shadow (or even by the worldsoul).

So what's next?

In 11.1.7, announced this coming Wednesday, these wild forces might start leaking out from the "Rootlands" and into Khaz Algar, causing all sorts of chaos, before we push it back.

So in various events and quests, we contain the rampant wildlife.

Then in 11.2, announced around June 25th or July 2nd, we head into the "Rootlands" so properly sort this mess out once and for all.

[Dvalin]

They'll be going to PAX East the ninth of May. Is there a chance of a presentation showing us the future stuff for TWW?

[Valysar]

inb4 K'aresh is just Ny'alotha bis (just a raid or a wasted potential like Argus)

[Limayria]

Wouldn't this be a massive change of course in regards to the setting though? Cause TWW was talked about as the underground expac, the expac where we explore the heart of the world. Idk, us going to K'aresh in 11.2 would feel very...incongruous in comparison to everything we've seen in the expac so far.

I wasnt saying going to k'aresh just that the events of 11.2 sets up the characters realizing we need to go there, with k'aresh potentially being like the broken shore was in legion, having a short scenario towards the start of midnight and coming back in patch content

so in theory 11.2, rootlands raid with ethreals doing something, we fight them and then learn they arent working for xal and theyre the ones who stole the dark heart and took it to k'aresh, we then talk to locus walker about getting to k'aresh as our set up for 12.0

[Alanar]

inb4 K'aresh is just Ny'alotha bis (just a raid or a wasted potential like Argus)

I dont get why any one would think otherwise. Its obviously going to be the similar as Argus. The excuse of ka resh being destroyed is perfect, to only give it like 2 or 3 zones max. Its not going to be a full on planet with 8 zones lol. Also Argus was complete dogshit, same as Ny alotha. Dont fool yourself.

People think to highly of certain aspects, who are in for dissappointment.

[Dracullus]

Strange some of you discuss Karesh as done deal. Ethererals are teased as next enemies, but outer space definitely doesn't feel like part of underground expansion.

Argus was builded throughout Legion, we had Sargerai keystone, defending Exodar and Turalyon teaser, Medivh in Karazhan saying that we must go further than closing portal, space theme was everywhere, all pieces were there even before Illidan opened the way.

How we get to Karesh? Someone open lame portal out of blue? Also it will be funny how they'll explain new enemies in Khaz Algar delves (or any content in KA in general), since Ethereals basically grabbed all they wanted in 11.1.

That's why I like idea of Ethereals going to Worldcore/Rootlands to grab Azeroth essence to restore Karesh (so noble reasons but still our enemies), us fighting with them and Xalatath using this opportunity to win whole TWW. It would make more interesting story, whole thing is well builded up, Worldcore is teased, placed under Khaz Algar and perfectly fits as finale of underground expansion.