The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Nibelheimy]

It would be cool af if the end boss of TWW was Xal using the husk of her old body as a puppet to fight us

I'm certain Xal's old body has to be involved at some point. I do see Karesh as a possibility, but I don't think now is the right time to go there. The chronicle old god mural is too on the nose right now, even if it ends up to be unrelated to the current story. (If she's even that)

There's a few options for me that lead us to Midnight right now.

1. The Ethereals cause the fall to Darkness. Either by swapping world souls, or the essence of them. Although the dark heart has been shown to absorb energy, I don't see a reason currently why they would intentionally force darkness on our planet. However, if they remove the void influence on Karesh and no longer care about the dark heart, Xal'atath could be free to take the dark heart back and cause the fall to void herself with that essence.

2. Xal'atath causes the fall. Plenty of options here. But I early on suggested pre-expansion Alleria being possesed after Xals "Fall" and throwing herself into the sunwell causing the void invasion. Though I do think the Sunwell now will be kept untainted to serve as some sort of last bastion of safety against the void. The dark heart as suggested above could be used directly on the world soul to corrupt it, or she could re-awaken her original form to claim the world soul for the void. But either way here she won't be gone gone for now. I do think its a possibility her original body is in Beledar. It could also be cool if the rootlands is the roots of the tree, with the giant sprawling corpse of Xal'ataths original body intertwined among it. A literal ode to the chronicle old god border, similar to how Naz'jatar was originally designed to look.

Although as others have mentioned, this could be pushed further into the saga.

The missing stepping stone is how the world soul will fall to the void. Presumably, the dark heart is needed for that, otherwise we wouldn't have gotten such a focus on it. It is in the hands of the ethereals. They are presumably at K'aresh.

I don't see them saving a uncorrupted K'aresh for a patch zone or expansion later, although possible, and the only reason I can see them coming to our worldsoul before K'aresh is to steal the soul itself, or the radiant song.

If the worldsoul is missing, the void have no reason to pursue Azeroth any longer. But if the Radiant song is a different entity, perhaps a light based ward (to counter void) then the worldsoul would be vulnerable to corruption fully.

[Lady Atia]

Feels like a lot of buzz for a x.7 patch, no? Unless they're also gonna drop a small teaser for Midnight and when the official announcement is.



It would be cool af if the end boss of TWW was Xal using the husk of her old body as a puppet to fight us

Or they preview the .7 patch and tease the third raid tier at the end. Having Rootlands as catch up mini-zone and Karesh confirmed as propper 2.0 zone would be big.

[Ersula]

Or they preview the .7 patch and tease the third raid tier at the end. Having Rootlands as catch up mini-zone and Karesh confirmed as propper 2.0 zone would be big.

Do people actually like all these zones? Everybody returning to the game in season 2 has been complaining about having to do Siren's Isle.

[Mecheon]

Honestly I think the final nail in the TWW Rootlands coffin was that Orweyna was skipped out not once but twice for a short story, replaced by Locus Walker who is one of the biggest faces on the book.

Also it's fair to note that K'aresh was namedropped in this expansion (prologue) while the Rootlands still don't have an official name, unless its true name is "The Cradle". So the setup for its appearance in TWW specifically is already there.

Locus Walker's been pretty much a no-show in the expansion itself, whereas Orweyna's been a pretty constant figure with regular quests to herself. Frankly I'd argue its the other way around, Locus Walker being delegated to short stories and not in-game content makes him irrelevant for the most part.

I doubt heavily the next zone's going to be Karesh after we've spent an expansion traveling underground and they've got the massive plot thread of 'what are the haranir hiding'. We might get someone trying to use the Cradle to crack a portal to Karesh or the like, but I doubt we're scrapping every part of buildup the expansion's had to jump into space and go to a place and someone we don't even know, especially given how much of the expansion has focused on saving Azeroth. Kind of can't save Azeroth if we're a couple of galaxies over.

[Cheezits]

Locus Walker's been pretty much a no-show in the expansion itself, whereas Orweyna's been a pretty constant figure with regular quests to herself. Frankly I'd argue its the other way around, Locus Walker being delegated to short stories and not in-game content makes him irrelevant for the most part.

I doubt heavily the next zone's going to be Karesh after we've spent an expansion traveling underground and they've got the massive plot thread of 'what are the haranir hiding'. We might get someone trying to use the Cradle to crack a portal to Karesh or the like, but I doubt we're scrapping every part of buildup the expansion's had to jump into space and go to a place and someone we don't even know, especially given how much of the expansion has focused on saving Azeroth. Kind of can't save Azeroth if we're a couple of galaxies over.

You say that, but it's a small part of launch questing and then Orweyna quiet quits 11.1 with no fanfare, not even being featured in the finale cinematic.

There is enough in launch and 11.1 for there to be evidence of an original narrative pathway to Rootlands, but the finale cinematic and no overt Rootlands tease at the end of 11.1 point towards thing going somwhere else.

This all feels shockingly like how much Tyr was built up in DF launch and patch stories and then... clearly cut from the expansion. Again a decision connecting to Metzen as it was confirmed he changed Tyr's story.

[Dvalin]

You say that, but it's a small part of launch questing and then Orweyna quiet quits 11.1 with no fanfare, not even being featured in the finale cinematic.

There is enough in launch and 11.1 for there to be evidence of an original narrative pathway to Rootlands, but the finale cinematic and no overt Rootlands tease at the end of 11.1 point towards thing going somwhere else.

This all feels shockingly like how much Tyr was built up in DF launch and patch stories and then... clearly cut from the expansion. Again a decision connecting to Metzen as it was confirmed he changed Tyr's story.

This doesn't make sense, though. All those quests and cinematics with Orweyna were made after Metzen rejoined (remember: he came in when TWW was 10 months into production - that's not that long into the process). Her main connection is with the Radiant Song, and that mystery hasn't been fully uncovered yet, either. Her story isn't over yet, whether it will culminate in TWW or TLT is still the unknown. But we can very well go to the core of Azeroth/the Cradle in 11.2.

Tyr has not been indefinitely sidelined, either. It makes sense for him to take a break (have you interacted with him after the birth of Amirdrassil into Azeroth?), and probably turn up in TLT again. When the Titans take center stage.

[milkmustache]

I doubt heavily the next zone's going to be Karesh after we've spent an expansion traveling underground and they've got the massive plot thread of 'what are the haranir hiding'. We might get someone trying to use the Cradle to crack a portal to Karesh or the like, but I doubt we're scrapping every part of buildup the expansion's had to jump into space and go to a place and someone we don't even know, especially given how much of the expansion has focused on saving Azeroth. Kind of can't save Azeroth if we're a couple of galaxies over.

But is the Haranir's secret the buildup of the expansion or just a buildup? I think there's an easy argument there that the Ethereals have just as much (if not more) of a buildup in 11.0 with Ky'veza and some of the Ethereals in Azj'Kahet along with 11.1's campaign and ending cinematic.

[Lady Atia]

Do people actually like all these zones? Everybody returning to the game in season 2 has been complaining about having to do Siren's Isle.

I would rather take another forbidden reach than having another zone cancelled like if they had eaten a WoD-memberberry.

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This doesn't make sense, though. All those quests and cinematics with Orweyna were made after Metzen rejoined (remember: he came in when TWW was 10 months into production - that's not that long into the process). Her main connection is with the Radiant Song, and that mystery hasn't been fully uncovered yet, either.

Tyr has not been indefinitely sidelined, either. It makes sense for him to take a break (have you interacted with him after the birth of Amirdrassil into Azeroth?), and probably turn up in TLT again. When the Titans take center stage.

Since Tyr uses the light I think we will see him in Midnight, that way he can also be a bridge between Midnight and TLT like Alleria will be between TWW and Midnight.

[milkmustache]

This doesn't make sense, though. All those quests and cinematics with Orweyna were made after Metzen rejoined (remember: he came in when TWW was 10 months into production - that's not that long into the process). Her main connection is with the Radiant Song, and that mystery hasn't been fully uncovered yet, either.

Tyr has not been indefinitely sidelined, either. It makes sense for him to take a break (have you interacted with him after the birth of Amirdrassil into Azeroth?), and probably turn up in TLT again. When the Titans take center stage.

Sure-- and by this logic, Orwenya can also be placed aside for a point later on when we unveil more that motivates her character, especially the Radiant Song.

Tyr wasn't indefinitely sidelined per se, but they did confirm that his story took a major pivot from where it was originally planned. It looks like the same is happening for the Haranir.

[Cheezits]

This doesn't make sense, though. All those quests and cinematics with Orweyna were made after Metzen rejoined (remember: he came in when TWW was 10 months into production - that's not that long into the process). Her main connection is with the Radiant Song, and that mystery hasn't been fully uncovered yet, either.

I think it is very likely that the quests with Orweyna up to 11.0.7 were made before and expansion adjustments, and there was no point on scrapping it as players expected her to be in the expansion (via the intro cinematic that was likely drafted WAY early in advance).

Her involvement in 11.0.7 and 11.1 is a crapshoot on whether it was the initial plan (likely, she fits as a thematic foil and ironic ally for the Goblins) or she was added in because they shifted away from her story.

Her sidelining is very likely to Tyr's actually. I think in both expansions it was planned that they would have a big part in the final act, but when they created a new saga structure they both got kicked around to later expansions. Tyr's involvement got moved to TLT, Orweyna got moved to TLT or beyond.

Everything in DF launch points to Tyr coming back and possibly being a "factory mode reset" antagonist against the Dragons, contrasting against what the dragons hyped him up to be. That clearly didn't happen and he's barely in the expansion finale so... yeah. I think we're seeing another thing like that with Orweyna.

[Marlamin]

Also good points!

But you're forgetting a couple of things:

1. While I respect the fact that you don't think the West Studio are much to go by, it's still notable that when they show 4 portals, these are themed based on Earthen, Arathi, Nerubians, and something else plant/mushroom themed.

2. There's an actual entrance to the zone in the game. Or what bears all the hallmarks of being an entrance, anyway. I'm thinking of when you travel into Azj-Kahet to the area with all the huge roots, and you look up to a greenish "portal" of sorts. Which, when approached, teleports you somewhere else and makes you fall asleep.

3. Orweyna and the Haranir exist, are heavily featured in cinematic and promotional material, have a lot of Allied Race-level quality assets in the files, and seemingly have some issues going on at home that are still unresolved.

4. The roots of Elun'ahir are actually featured on an early concept map of Khaz Algar shown at BlizzCon 2023. The Beledar is the other notable visual element on that map.

5. A big part of the content involves the Freysworn, which hasn't really resulted in anything major yet.

6. Delves have themes based on content within the different zones. Kobold, Kobyss, Nerubian, Shadow Caster, and the new Goblin delves all fit within the existing zones. But the Fungarian ones do not.

So while it's certainly possible "Rootlands" got scrapped in in favour of a new direction for the Worldsoul Saga, I do not think it could have happened early on in development. It must have happened after the expansion was announced basically. In fact such a drastic and late shift could even explain why the patches of TWW so far seem to be rather light on content.

Yeah, outside of the other early development points (which could line up either direction) these are all fair points. There's a good chance it was later in development too, but I think that makes for a good chance that we'll see it in the future at some point, albeit maybe at a less expansive state than it was initially going to be. Funny that I forgot about both the teleport and Hallowfal concept map given I posted about that at the time. Classic.

The Fungarian point is likely the most interesting and one I had not considered yet. I'm not a big fan of them, but there's definitely pointers to us seeing them stay on/Blizzard expanding on them with relatively constant appearances since they initially showed up in BfA. There doesn't seem much room for expanding on them left in TWW, so I wonder where we'll see them appear in 12.0. Maybe the expanded Ghostlands could have some fungarian subzones (or the rootlands have a surprise appearance).

Also, sidenote that is not entirely related but still something I found interesting, the Harronir stuff was added to the file relatively late in development asset wise if I remember correctly. Could mean nothing, but still interesting.

[Limayria]

Locus Walker's been pretty much a no-show in the expansion itself, whereas Orweyna's been a pretty constant figure with regular quests to herself. Frankly I'd argue its the other way around, Locus Walker being delegated to short stories and not in-game content makes him irrelevant for the most part.

I doubt heavily the next zone's going to be Karesh after we've spent an expansion traveling underground and they've got the massive plot thread of 'what are the haranir hiding'. We might get someone trying to use the Cradle to crack a portal to Karesh or the like, but I doubt we're scrapping every part of buildup the expansion's had to jump into space and go to a place and someone we don't even know, especially given how much of the expansion has focused on saving Azeroth. Kind of can't save Azeroth if we're a couple of galaxies over.

Have there been any major short stories in the modern wow era that didn't focus on either a playable faction leader of villain?

I'm thinking locus walkers short story will be set up for playable etherals considering how connected etherals and void elves are and how we know void elves are going to play a major role next expac

[Cheezits]

I don't think there's any question that Haranir/Rootlands were a big part of early development, hence the map file, concept art, cinematic and launch quests. However that doesn't mean they are 11.2 and I would argue the 11.1 finale quests point toward something else (lol karesh)

[allegrian]

I think it is very likely that the quests with Orweyna up to 11.0.7 were made before and expansion adjustments, and there was no point on scrapping it as players expected her to be in the expansion (via the intro cinematic that was likely drafted WAY early in advance).

Her involvement in 11.0.7 and 11.1 is a crapshoot on whether it was the initial plan (likely, she fits as a thematic foil and ironic ally for the Goblins) or she was added in because they shifted away from her story.

Her sidelining is very likely to Tyr's actually. I think in both expansions it was planned that they would have a big part in the final act, but when they created a new saga structure they both got kicked around to later expansions. Tyr's involvement got moved to TLT, Orweyna got moved to TLT or beyond.

Everything in DF launch points to Tyr coming back and possibly being a "factory mode reset" antagonist against the Dragons, contrasting against what the dragons hyped him up to be. That clearly didn't happen and he's barely in the expansion finale so... yeah. I think we're seeing another thing like that with Orweyna.

I'm tired of constant pivots mid expansions. This started with wod, Legion was the sole exception and then it happenned every expansion since then, and we are supposed to be in a cohesive trilogy story.

[milkmustache]

I'm tired of constant pivots mid expansions. This started with wod, Legion was the sole exception and then it happenned every expansion since then, and we are supposed to be in a cohesive trilogy story.

In theory, this should be final one for a while. DF and TWW's plot pivots are done fully to serve Midnight and TLT, so it'd be odd to see a change in monumental ways further down. But I agree, it's been a bit disappointing to see Shadowlands and DF in particular have these echoes of original threads overshadowing the expansion themselves in negative ways. IE, Primus Jailer and Evil Tyr.

[Cheezits]

And... do we really want Rootlands over K'aresh? Like, really? Even if it slots better with launch?

Especially after DF? It's almost comical how repetitive it is to the point that I don't know they didn't catch that. I think the two things we'll miss out are playable Haranir and possibly Earthen Druids, but that's about it on the "pressing things we really need" IMO.

[Dracullus]

I'm tired of constant pivots mid expansions. This started with wod, Legion was the sole exception and then it happenned every expansion since then, and we are supposed to be in a cohesive trilogy story.

BfA didn't have a pivot, it was trying to be 2 expansions at once from start and later abandoned one plot. Horde/Alliance war was relevant only in prologue and ONE raid. Especially from Horde perspective, leveling -> Uldir -> Nazjatar -> Nyalotha clearly tell Old God story, with Alliance as secondary enemy.

SL started and ended with Jailer as villain, DF started and ended with Primalists as villain, don't get where you see pivot in these expacs.

And... do we really want Rootlands over K'aresh? Like, really? Even if it slots better with launch?

Especially after DF? It's almost comical how repetitive it is to the point that I don't know they didn't catch that. I think the two things we'll miss out are playable Haranir and possibly Earthen Druids, but that's about it on the "pressing things we really need" IMO.

Personally I prefer Worldcore in TWW and Karesh in Midnight, I dislike disjointed expansions. Could live with or without Rootlands.

[Marlamin]

And... do we really want Rootlands over K'aresh? Like, really? Even if it slots better with launch?

I don't know if anyone actually actively wants it -instead- of K'aresh in the grand scheme of things.

[Worldshaper]

I'm happy with either one, tbh. Each has its potential upsides and downsides. If we dont get K'aresh now, I am positive we'll still get Ethereal aesthetics soon anyway.

I kinda lean a little bit towards "Rootlands" because I want closure on that storyline and to see the promise of Orweyna's story come to fruition.

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Yeah, outside of the other early development points (which could line up either direction) these are all fair points. There's a good chance it was later in development too, but I think that makes for a good chance that we'll see it in the future at some point, albeit maybe at a less expansive state than it was initially going to be. Funny that I forgot about both the teleport and Hallowfal concept map given I posted about that at the time. Classic.

The Fungarian point is likely the most interesting and one I had not considered yet. I'm not a big fan of them, but there's definitely pointers to us seeing them stay on/Blizzard expanding on them with relatively constant appearances since they initially showed up in BfA. There doesn't seem much room for expanding on them left in TWW, so I wonder where we'll see them appear in 12.0. Maybe the expanded Ghostlands could have some fungarian subzones (or the rootlands have a surprise appearance).

Also, sidenote that is not entirely related but still something I found interesting, the Harronir stuff was added to the file relatively late in development asset wise if I remember correctly. Could mean nothing, but still interesting.

I had forgotten the fungarians existed earlier, nice catch.

The timing of the Haranir assets is interesting, I agree.

[Dvalin]

BfA didn't have a pivot, it was trying to be 2 expansions at once from start and later abandoned one plot. Horde/Alliance war was relevant only in prologue and ONE raid. Especially from Horde perspective, leveling -> Uldir -> Nazjatar -> Nyalotha clearly tell Old God story, with Alliance as secondary enemy.

SL started and ended with Jailer as villain, DF started and ended with Primalists as villain, don't get where you see pivot in these expacs.



Personally I prefer Worldcore in TWW and Karesh in Midnight, I dislike disjointed expansions. Could live with or without Rootlands.

Yeah, agreed. Concepts always change during different development-stages, some rather late. That's totally normal.