The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Cheezits]

I'm glad the game is in a good (enough) place where they can stick to these strict content schedules, but damn if it the dripfeed doesn't get to you sometimes.

[milkmustache]

I'm glad the game is in a good (enough) place where they can stick to these strict content schedules, but damn if it the dripfeed doesn't get to you sometimes.

I feel like the mid patch > last patch cadence is always particularly slow. At least with .0 > .1 you have the larger content drop from expansion launch and .2 > .0 you have months of speculation, announcement, datamining, beta, etc.

[Cheezits]

I feel like the mid patch > last patch cadence is always particularly slow. At least with .0 > .1 you have the larger content drop from expansion launch and .2 > .0 you have months of speculation, announcement, datamining, beta, etc.

And there's the anxiety of "what story beats are going to get dropped/postponed" that has happened with BFA (Sylvanas) and DF (Tyr) during that time as well. We will probably see this happen again with a certain area that may or may not have to do with roots.

[Makorus]

And there's the anxiety of "what story beats are going to get dropped/postponed" that has happened with BFA (Sylvanas) and DF (Tyr) during that time as well. We will probably see this happen again with a certain area that may or may not have to do with roots.

Wait, how did Sylvanas or Tyr get dropped?

[Cheezits]

Wait, how did Sylvanas or Tyr get dropped?

Sylvanas got shuffled to SL before last patch of BFA. Tyr's DF story either got scrapped or got postponed considering he does little to nothing.

Orweyna is built up from the cinematic onward and yet has a real chance of not appearing again in TWW. Similar situation.

[Makorus]

Sylvanas got shuffled to SL before last patch of BFA. Tyr's DF story either got scrapped or got postponed considering he does little to nothing.

Orweyna is built up from the cinematic onward and yet has a real chance of not appearing again in TWW. Similar situation.

That's not even remotely the same thing though.

Both Sylvanas and Tyr had conclusive endings in their respective expansion, and I would wager that the plan from the get-go was to have Sylvanas continue into Shadowlands (and I feel like there are interviews confirming that). Likewise, I feel like Tyr was brought back as a seed for the future.

Saying they got "dropped" heavily implies that their story arc changed, when there really is nothing that implies that.

Orweyna is different because she is heavily featured in marketing, yet shows up for like 5 quests in 11.0, shows up for a bit in Undermine and that's it so far. Her race is fully customizable, yet there's only 3 of them featured in the entire expansion. Plus, we know that Rootlands was cut fairly late in development.

[milkmustache]

That's not even remotely the same thing though.

Both Sylvanas and Tyr had conclusive endings in their respective expansion, and I would wager that the plan from the get-go was to have Sylvanas continue into Shadowlands (and I feel like there are interviews confirming that). Likewise, I feel like Tyr was brought back as a seed for the future.

Saying they got "dropped" heavily implies that their story arc changed, when there really is nothing that implies that.

Orweyna is different because she is heavily featured in marketing, yet shows up for like 5 quests in 11.0, shows up for a bit in Undermine and that's it so far. Her race is fully customizable, yet there's only 3 of them featured in the entire expansion. Plus, we know that Rootlands was cut fairly late in development.

I'll agree re; Sylvanas and Orweyna, but AFAIK it was all but confirmed that Tyr was originally planned to play a far larger part in the story than he did... or rather a far different. I think the whole Halls of Infusion situation was meant to really paint Tyr in a bad light, ultimately revealing him and the Titans to be bad from the perspective of the dragons, but that was shifted as they settled further into the idea of the World Soul Saga.

I know at least that Tyr was originally supposed to be a copy but per Metzen's request he was made a reborn Tyr.

There's a significant pivot on how the quest builds after the main expansion quest. It was timegated, locked behind renown, and then when he's finally revived it's just sort of "Oh. Hey. Gotta relearn what Azeroth's like I suppose,"... it just sorta lands flat and seems like it's pushed further down. Not a complaint from me, I think it will work better in TLT.

[Catastrophy349]

If I'm being honest, cutting "rootlands" from the launch content only to rework it as an endgame zone for 11.2 kinda fits perfectly with TWW's development (trying to save resources for Midnight).

IDK it just seems so frigging weird to feature Orweyna so heavily in the promo and initial questing, and even have the ominous rootlands portal in Azj-Kahet, if they weren't planning to do something with it.

I'm gonna remain open minded to the idea of a "Rootlands" zone in 11.2, with K'aresh as a raid to reclaims the Dark Heart with Orweyna as our ally.

She might be able to commune a bit with the remnants of K'aresh's worldsoul, or see fragments of its memories or something. That might help her understand how to help Azeroth.

Funnily enough, when the "World Soul Saga" was first announced, I immediately thought "Man, how could they transition from TWW to Midnight in a way that would make sense?" And, so, I thought, K'aresh! However, once I started playing through TWW (since I always avoid spoilers for new content (I know that's hilarious to say considering the forum I am on...long story short, when new content comes out, I DIP from this forum FAST)), I started to shift my focus to more "underground/Rootlands" type of content based on everything I was getting from the story/lore (e.g. short stories, NPCs, main/side questlines, promotional cinematics, etc.).

[milkmustache]

Right?

I could maybe picture an invasion of the Rootlands by Xal'atath. Perhaps she knows that's a sanctum of life beneath Khaz Algar, a realm she thus far hasn't been able to tread.

Maybe she sees it as plan B. Without the Dark Heart she instead goes for the roots as a way to claim the worldsoul, or to carry out the awakening.

I just don't see that being a logical plot shift. She made a risk in making a deal with the Goblins (who she clearly views as beneath her) because she needed the Dark Heart fixed, and when she finds out that the Ethereals took it, she immediately abandons Gallywix in pursuit. I don't think Xal'atath has a plan B. I think Xal'atath's entire gambit is focused through the Dark Heart and after spending so much time empowering it and preparing for whatever it is she plans to do, a rogue group of Ethereals has stolen it from her to use for their own purposes. She's immediately going after it, and we'll be right behind her when we find out.

The War Within will end on a patch that is not underground or within Azeroth, but instead in a War Within a split Ethereal people. As we help the good and defeat the bad, K'aresh will be presented as a cautionary tale of doom to a world by the hand of the Void, so that way when we fail at the end of 11.2 we're not given just purple skyboxes, but real stakes.

I just genuinely do not see how the Rootlands fit in right now without justifying it by a Xal'atah or Ethereal invasion to make it fit the evidence we already have.

[leothar]

Nothing, huh? At this point I hope blue post is wrong and turbulent timeways are longer, 6 weeks PTR for major patch seems short.

Turbulent Timeways starts next week. It was moved to the start of 11.1.7 rather than the end so it has nothing to do with 11.2.

[Merryck]

If I'm being honest, cutting "rootlands" from the launch content only to rework it as an endgame zone for 11.2 kinda fits perfectly with TWW's development (trying to save resources for Midnight).

IDK it just seems so frigging weird to feature Orweyna so heavily in the promo and initial questing, and even have the ominous rootlands portal in Azj-Kahet, if they weren't planning to do something with it.

I'm gonna remain open minded to the idea of a "Rootlands" zone in 11.2, with K'aresh as a raid to reclaims the Dark Heart with Orweyna as our ally.

She might be able to commune a bit with the remnants of K'aresh's worldsoul, or see fragments of its memories or something. That might help her understand how to help Azeroth.

I hope we'll get Rootlands as the main zone AND K'aresh as a maw-style zone that we make temporary expeditions to. Kind of also like horrific visions. The K'aresh we saw looked pretty fucked up, so it probably wouldn't make sense to be the main zone. But it deserves to be a bit more than just a raid.

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Hell, we could be making these expeditions to collect these "fragments" of K'aresh's memory for Orweyna to study.

[Hitei]

The War Within will end on a patch that is not underground or within Azeroth, but instead in a War Within a split Ethereal people.

That's a pretty significant stretch.

She made a risk in making a deal with the Goblins (who she clearly views as beneath her) because she needed the Dark Heart fixed, and when she finds out that the Ethereals took it, she immediately abandons Gallywix in pursuit. I don't think Xal'atath has a plan B. I think Xal'atath's entire gambit is focused through the Dark Heart and after spending so much time empowering it and preparing for whatever it is she plans to do, a rogue group of Ethereals has stolen it from her to use for their own purposes. She's immediately going after it, and we'll be right behind her when we find out.

I don't think this is inherently incorrect logic, but also nothing about this necessitates a resolution in TWW. We know, for a fact, that Xal'atath is going to still be around and involved in Midnight, so her still needing to go get the Dark Heart, or it coming into play later in the Void conflict doesn't really mean that must be the next patch.

I don't think there's really much to be said in this conversation that hasn't already been said before, but for the sake of posterity:

I just genuinely do not see how the Rootlands fit in right now without justifying it by a Xal'atah or Ethereal invasion to make it fit the evidence we already have.

I think it's worth acknowledging the actual wordage used by Metzen when talking about WSS, and what everything else suggests TWW is about.

The first part of the Worldsoul Saga and your 10th expansion is called: World of Warcraft: The War Witihn

In this chapter you will be descending into the heart of Azeroth itself, exploring new subterranean kingdoms and engaging with ancient cultures, like the Earthen and the terrifying Nerubians of Azj-Kahet. But as the forces of darkness close in around our precious Worldsoul, you will be called to do what you always do, which is dispense indiscriminate justice upon all those who got it comin.

-Blizzcon announcement

This expansion is about the Worldsoul being in danger and enemies pushing towards the Worldsoul itself.

It's what the TWW (not Midnight, not WSS) launch trailers are about (the trailers where Xal also states that her goal is the Worldsoul)


It was what the pre-patch event was about--Azeroth crying out with memories of other times it had specifically locally been threatened (as opposed to invasions from off-world).

It is why we are in Khaz Algar in the first place. We came here not following Xal, but following the visions Magni et. al were having and the Song. Magni who more or less passed the Speaker torch to Orweyna in post-launch quest content.
The baseline questing experience teases accessing the Worldsoul via the entire coreway plotline (and then teases it more when Orweyna implies that the Worldsoul is connected to the root network, i.e. another path).

But up to this point the Worldsoul hasn't actually been in danger and enemies have been moving AWAY from it. The Nerubians as a distraction were invading upwards into the Arathi and Earthen domains. We have not descended to the heart of Azeroth and we have not seen the forces of darkness close in around it.


To some extent we already know there is a plan B for Xal. It's Midnight. Plan B is a traditional void invasion of the planet in direct assault, as opposed to Xal's original gambit with Khaz Algar and using local populations and resources. The actual thing in question is did she already fail in Khaz Algar with 11.1 and is going to go to K'aresh before that plan B, or is there a final segment to Khaz Algar where we actually fight for the safety of the Worldsoul before she is forced to swap to plan B.

Personally I think the second one "fits" much better into the established expansion as described and played than going to an alien planet to participate in some largely unrelated domestic civil war they are having as a warning about how letting the Void win is a bad thing. We already know the Void winning is bad, that's why we've been helping the Algari forces fight Nerubians and shadow cultists and helping Alleria hunt Xal'atath.

[Bladesyphon]

I hope we'll get Rootlands as the main zone AND K'aresh as a maw-style zone that we make temporary expeditions to. Kind of also like horrific visions. The K'aresh we saw looked pretty fucked up, so it probably wouldn't make sense to be the main zone. But it deserves to be a bit more than just a raid.

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Hell, we could be making these expeditions to collect these "fragments" of K'aresh's memory for Orweyna to study.

I'm still going with my theory that the K'aresh cinematic that was teased at the end of Undermine(d) was a set up for Midnight, and we won't see anything come from that until then, while 11.2 will feature the Rootlands heavily, with a Raid set in either the Titan Facility at the bottom of the Coreway, a location in the Rootlands itself, or tie into Beledar in some way. It just seems odd to me they'd use K'aresh as a final raid destination in an expansion where the theme is underground - especially when K'aresh would work far better as a Raid in Midnight.

Blizzard also commented before that with the style of story telling in the World Soul Saga, they have more creative liberties to show and tease off future expansion locations, without being obligated to attach them to the current expansion's patch cycle. Of course, this goes both ways, and we could very easily return to Dornogal in a later expansion as well.

Either way, the only thing I *will* be surprised about in 11.2, is if the Rootlands and Orweyna's story aren't included in some capacity.

[Cheezits]

Hey remember that golden arabian-looking treasure chest that was datamined around the end of Dragonflight?

If anyone knows what I'm talking about, do you have a pic of the model?

[Viridiel]

What are everyone's hopes and dreams for TLT, then? I know it's a way off but a couple of months from now it'll suddenly become the next expansion to be revealed.

I still think it's too hard to really tell until we at least know what's in Midnight baseline, but I think I would like for the drust to return. I want a couple Shadowlands storylines to continue, and I think the Maldraxxi and the drust probably make the most sense for the area. There's the Emerald Nightmare connection via Vordrassil and Thros, and obviously the drust are vrykul whose homeland is Northrend. They could appear in Grizzly Hills as the last vestige of the Nightmare consolidating power in the Rift of Aln, or in Howling Fjord or Storm Peaks with the vrykul, or even taking over Zul'drak given the drust and frost trolls' shared use of the darker parts of nature magic.

[Catastrophy349]

I'm "Team K'aresh" for WHEN it makes sense. However, I'm also "Team Down Below (Rootlands, Beledar, Worldcore, etc.)" for 11.2, personally...

"IF" they can make "K'aresh" work for 11.2, then I'm fine with that, too. However, I stand by my former comments.

[Joshuaj]

So, quick thing...

Those swirls at the Sepulcher are said to be the cosmic forces that shape WoW's Universe, yeah? So, that makes me wonder

Are those swirls portions of the First Ones? Or are the swirls the First Ones themselves, with the "portions" being the Zereths and the cosmic hearts maybe? Hmm...

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Cause if the swirls are just straight up the First Ones, then y'all can calm down about the possibility of us seeing them as entities in the far future or something like that.

It's possible they're the First Ones themselves, and the pylons are essentially coding they made to keep themselves balanced, and to keep their influences fueled, but it's also possible the swirls are just the portions of the First Ones for the pattern, and the pylons at the cosmic hearts exist to fuel them and whatnot.

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I'm "Team K'aresh" for WHEN it makes sense. However, I'm also "Team Down Below (Rootlands, Beledar, Worldcore, etc.)" for 11.2, personally...

"IF" they can make "K'aresh" work for 11.2, then I'm fine with that, too. However, I stand by my former comments.

I'd be fine with that...but like...

I can just see a bunch of Light and Void ships battling at the atmosphere of K'aresh in Renilash, ya know?

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So, I really hope the planet is saved for Midnight

[Catastrophy349]

So, quick thing...

Those swirls at the Sepulcher are said to be the cosmic forces that shape WoW's Universe, yeah? So, that makes me wonder

Are those swirls portions of the First Ones? Or are the swirls the First Ones themselves, with the "portions" being the Zereths and the cosmic hearts maybe? Hmm...

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Cause if the swirls are just straight up the First Ones, then y'all can calm down about the possibility of us seeing them as entities in the far future or something like that.

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I'd be fine with that...but like...

I can just see a bunch of Light and Void ships battling at the atmosphere of K'aresh in Renilash, ya know?

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So, I really hope the planet is saved for Midnight

Look at my profile, trust me, I've BEEN "Team K'aresh" for Midnight for a while.

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My original "copium/hopium" when the World Soul Saga was first announced was that "Quel'thalas" could happen at any point in Midnight, not necessarily the main "continent/location" for Midnight. In other words, I hoped maybe "K'aresh" could be our destination for Midnight at the start (leveling campaign), and it really hits the fan which takes us back to Azeroth for 12.1/12.2. One can dream!!

Obviously, making "K'aresh" an entire continent would be interesting considering, you know, the lore/history of it. But, it would be cool!

[Joshuaj]

Look at my profile, trust me, I've BEEN "Team K'aresh" for Midnight for a while.

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My original "copium/hopium" when the World Soul Saga was first announced was that "Quel'thalas" could happen at any point in Midnight, not necessarily the main "continent/location" for Midnight. In other words, I hoped maybe "K'aresh" could be our destination for Midnight at the start (leveling campaign), and it really hits the fan which takes us back to Azeroth for 12.1/12.2. One can dream!!

Obviously, making "K'aresh" an entire continent would be interesting considering, you know, the lore/history of it. But, it would be cool!

My assumption is that Midnight's Light Vs Shadow stuff is gonna kick off with the patches.

12.0 will likely involve the Void's initial invasion + us reuniting the Elves and battling whatever's beneath Zul'Aman.

12.1 will likely involve us aiding some of the Naga or battling the Naga (maybe both) and taking the fight to Azshara at the Sunwell (Kinda hoping we go to Azeroth's biggest moon, but ik that's hopium)

And 12.2 will likely involve Renilash and us aiding the Light against Dimensius' armada at the ruins of K'aresh! This will result in either Dimensius dying, or it getting pushed back.

[Limayria]

My assumption is that Midnight's Light Vs Shadow stuff is gonna kick off with the patches.

12.0 will likely involve the Void's initial invasion + us reuniting the Elves and battling whatever's beneath Zul'Aman.

12.1 will likely involve us aiding some of the Naga or battling the Naga (maybe both) and taking the fight to Azshara at the Sunwell (Kinda hoping we go to Azeroth's biggest moon, but ik that's hopium)

And 12.2 will likely involve Renilash and us aiding the Light against Dimensius' armada at the ruins of K'aresh! This will result in either Dimensius dying, or it getting pushed back.

you know speaking of the moon, i noticed the other day while playing cata and noticed the moon had a somewhat azeriteish color scheme like blueish whiteish yellowish i do think that 12.2 is going to lead us into TLT and the void stuff is primarily going to be 11.2 - 12.1 with 12.1.5 starting to us dealing with whatever brings the titans back