The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Worldshaper]

I know you're enthusiastic for your side but to me I just see people seeing a pattern where there isn't much of one. People like to see patterns in things, its why people see stuff like Jesus in burnt toast or faces in clouds. Are there some repeated rhythms? Sure, I'll agree there. But its also people trying to look back and force things into a pattern. Its like with Nostradamus prophecies. Yeah you can totally see where X Y and Z line up now, but only because you're trying hard to look for it.

Hell, people going "next expansion is an elemental one" meanwhile I'm looking at the expansion we have now and it is practically an elemental one in all but name! Yeah Dragons are involved, sure, but its practically 45% elemental, 55% dragon. This is an elemental expansion!

If it turns out the next expansion is centered on elementals, sure, go ahead and point at me and laugh (note though, I'm saying centered. If it ends up Naga-themed? That's not elemental). But expect me to do much the same, is all I'll say.

You can try to convince me otherwise, I won't stop you, but I'm pretty set in how I feel. I admire your tenacity in your beliefs, but I don't think either of us will budge, heh.

Xbox: It doesn't make me feel much better to have an American company do the acquiring rather than Asian, if I'm honest. I'd rather neither happens, so I'm not going to dance happy that Microsoft is doing it.

I'll admit it was a fairly long time ago, well over a decade, so I realize things could well have changed, but given various reports over the years, and how they still do the contract stuff, plus Microsoft at large laying off well over 10,000 employees despite record profits...I know others do it too. But I don't know anyone working for Amazon (well, actually, I did. Me, heh. Fuck them too, and that's from personal experience!), Apple, etc. I do at Blizzard.

So I'm just very, very concerned. My friend finally landed on her feet and got in good at Blizzard, managed to avoid the nasty shit that's been happening, and has been secure. And now that's looking very iffy.

So I'm sorry here too but fuck Microsoft and I'm not happy for it at all. Though I wouldn't be if like, Comcast bought them either, for what its worth (as I recall, they were rumored).

But your analogy doesn't really work. It's more like as if I showed you The Two Towers and Return of the King, and I claimed they were sequels to The Fellowship of the Ring, to which you then respond: "I'm sorry, but I'm just not seeing it. People tend to find patterns where there are none [etc]".

These expansions are almost entirely about Death, and follow a clear storyline from Point A to Point B which ultimately leads to us "defeating" Death:

- WotLK
- BfA
- Shadowlands


These expansions are almost entirely about the Burning Legion, and follow a clear storyline from Point A to Point B which ultimately leads to us "defeating" Disorder (Fel magic):

- TBC
- WoD
- Legion

So far, these expansions are almost entirely about the Void, Elementals and Dragons, and follow a clear storyline from Point A to Point B which ultimately will probably lead to us "defeating" Shadow (Void):

- Cataclysm
- Dragonflight
- 11.0

Hypothetically, these expansions are almost entirely about having a good and hearty adventure in a strange new land, and focus more on having a good time than fighting otherwordly threats:

- Mists of Pandaria
- 12.0 'Avaloren'
- 13.0?

[LemonDemonGirl]

The fish really has a Pandarian vibe.

Maybe Avaloren will have a subrace of Pandaren living on it?

[Kiivar86]

But your analogy doesn't really work. It's more like as if I showed you The Two Towers and Return of the King, and I claimed they were sequels to The Fellowship of the Ring, to which you then respond: "I'm sorry, but I'm just not seeing it. People tend to find patterns where there are none [etc]".

These expansions are almost entirely about Death, and follow a clear storyline from Point A to Point B which ultimately leads to us "defeating" Death:

- WotLK
- BfA
- Shadowlands


These expansions are almost entirely about the Burning Legion, and follow a clear storyline from Point A to Point B which ultimately leads to us "defeating" Disorder (Fel magic):

- TBC
- WoD
- Legion

So far, these expansions are almost entirely about the Void, Elementals and Dragons, and follow a clear storyline from Point A to Point B which ultimately will probably lead to us "defeating" Shadow (Void):

- Cataclysm
- Dragonflight
- 11.0

Hypothetically, these expansions are almost entirely about having a good and hearty adventure in a strange new land, and focus more on having a good time than fighting otherwordly threats:

- Mists of Pandaria
- 12.0 'Avaloren'
- 13.0?

Heh again you're persuasive Worldshaper, I'll give you that. I hope it is clear that I'm not angry or anything, too. I do appreciate this!

Even if I'm being hardheaded and not agreeing, heh.

Well, if it turns out I'm wrong, I'll eat my crow. And honestly, if Avaloren ends up an expansion on its own, I won't have much room to complain (for now, anyway) since that's my big want for an expansion (which, admittedly, is mostly my own headcanon on what a possible Avalon analog could be like). I've said it before but I'm tired of concepts I'm excited for ending up as just patch zones.

(Which means I'd also be happy with a naga expansion too, for what its worth)

[Khaza-R]

.

These expansions are almost entirely about Death, and follow a clear storyline from Point A to Point B which ultimately leads to us "defeating" Death:

- WotLK
- BfA
- Shadowlands

Sure BfA is expansion about Death if you ignore like 75% of the story that revolves around Old God minions and N'zoth

By that logic Vanilla -> MoP -> BfA were the dinosaur expansions. Since they clearly led us from point A to point B and reaching dinoland.

[Murlocos]

Ion at least, and perhaps other developers but I'm not certain, have referred to Dragonflight being intended to be evocative of MoP more than Cataclysm. The only expansions I would really link together are BfA and SL, because the lynchpin of BfA's A-plot just straight up leaves and tells you to buy the next expansion to see what happens next, and then the B-plot got a rushed end patch. I guess you could group BfA with MoP with the idea of "faction war A-plot, Old Gods B-plot", only that MoP neatly combined the two together at the end while they're clumsily separated in BfA. SL went on to try forcing so many connections to previous stories that it ended up highlighting just how out of place it felt.

I just can't buy into any idea of some master planned theming when we know just how rushed or slapped together stories can be, how many creative heads have come and gone over the years, how much feedback impacts the story. Maybe somebody at Blizzard at some point had an idea of how the plot could go several years in advance at one point or another, but it never survives to see the final game in any recognizable form.

[Worldshaper]

Sure BfA is expansion about Death if you ignore like 75% of the story that revolves around Old God minions and N'zoth

By that logic Vanilla -> MoP -> BfA were the dinosaur expansions. Since they clearly led us from point A to point B and reaching dinoland.

Each middle expansion of these trilogies (i.e. WoD, BfA, and Dragonflight) have multiple things going on at once.

WoD had the Iron Horde, and it wasn't immediately clear that they would be sidelined. The Burning Legion stuff, too.

BfA had the faction war and the Old God stuff. Drust. Sylvanas' soul harvest.

Dragonflight has the Tyr and Dragon Aspect shenanigans, the Primal Incarnates and the Primalists, the Dracthyr defectors, etc.

These expansions are meant to pick up the thread from their predecessors, reintroduce familiar characters, themes and locations, and serve as a bridge for the ultimate showdown that follows.

It wouldn't feel natural to just run straight into Legion from Mists of Pandaria for example.

- - - Updated - - -

Ion at least, and perhaps other developers but I'm not certain, have referred to Dragonflight being intended to be evocative of MoP more than Cataclysm. The only expansions I would really link together are BfA and SL, because the lynchpin of BfA's A-plot just straight up leaves and tells you to buy the next expansion to see what happens next, and then the B-plot got a rushed end patch. I guess you could group BfA with MoP with the idea of "faction war A-plot, Old Gods B-plot", only that MoP neatly combined the two together at the end while they're clumsily separated in BfA. SL went on to try forcing so many connections to previous stories that it ended up highlighting just how out of place it felt.

I just can't buy into any idea of some master planned theming when we know just how rushed or slapped together stories can be, how many creative heads have come and gone over the years, how much feedback impacts the story. Maybe somebody at Blizzard at some point had an idea of how the plot could go several years in advance at one point or another, but it never survives to see the final game in any recognizable form.

Could you provide us with a source for Ion's comments?

[Darkarath]

So... It seems that Nozdormu is gone. Long live Murozond!

And expect Fyrakk as the 10.2 final boss.

I like how things are going

[Worldshaper]

Here's a further discovery that heavily implies Iridikron is communing with either Xal'atath or Queen Azshara (behind the 'Umbral Veil').

Seems to offer further support to the idea that a big Void showdown is coming in 11.0.

https://twitter.com/MrGMYT/status/16...MevBonIeg&s=19

[Raetary]

BfA had the faction war and the Old God stuff. Drust. Sylvanas' soul harvest.

The "Soul harvest" was a recontextualization for the plot they were going for in SL.

Sylvanas intended to invade and capture the Teldrassil, only destroying it as a last ditch effort to break alliance morale after Saurfang failed to kill Malf and Delaryn broke her confidence.


This whole expansion pattern just doesn't work, Blizzard has never been this consistent.
They change their narrative direction on a whim, especially in the recent expansions.

[Cheezits]

I can't tell if Noz was saved or wasn't saved. Maybe Iridikron is implying we created a doomed timeline (ie: if we saved Noz, this timeline will destroy itself/we have to hop to a new one? Revamp??)

Looks like the Harbinger is Xal'atath.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F0x68YWW...name=4096x4096

[Worldshaper]

The "Soul harvest" was a recontextualization for the plot they were going for in SL.

Sylvanas intended to invade and capture the Teldrassil, only destroying it as a last ditch effort to break alliance morale after Saurfang failed to kill Malf and Delaryn broke her confidence.


This whole expansion pattern just doesn't work, Blizzard has never been this consistent.
They change their narrative direction on a whim, especially in the recent expansions.

Factually untrue.

Expansions and their overarching stories are planned and put into preproduction well in advance. Sometimes years. Details may change, such as the design of the Jailer. But not the general direction of the story, because so much work from different teams tie into it.

That said, Shadowlands obviously had a bit of a messy development due to Covid and the whole sexual allegations ordeal, which also involved Afrisiabi.

But it is a fact that Sylvanas went on a killing spree in order to collect as many souls as possible.

There are 'whispers' from Legion and BfA already suggesting the Shadowlands plot.

[Murlocos]

Could you provide us with a source for Ion's comments?

Got you.
https://www.gamerbraves.com/world-of...poral-prisons/

Without trying to fish for exact story spoilers, I asked about what Ion hopes people would take away from the expansion’s story. It’s a journey to a new land where you will meet the locals and do the good ol’ problem solving along the way. Ion likens it to Mists of Pandaria in ‘vibes’, though of course, with dragons instead of pandarens. “Some of our other expansions have been clearly set up as ‘There is this villain that’s going to destroy the world and we need to stop them’. This isn’t one of those.”

[Worldshaper]

Got you.
https://www.gamerbraves.com/world-of...poral-prisons/

'In vibes.'

[Murlocos]

'In vibes.'

Yeah, but you had a category for "vibes" expansions in your post and included MoP in it, even though MoP also deals with faction war and Old God plotlines.

[Cheezits]

That's cool. Xal'atath wanting to bring the Void Lords to our world would be sick

https://www.wowhead.com/news/is-patc...re-book-331539

Here's the exact passage on the Harbinger.

Rise, rise! Our Queen calls to us from beyond the Umbral Veil. She has transcended the Circle of Stars and basks in her eternal grandeur!

The time we have long awaited is nigh.

Even now, the Harbinger gathers the children of the first flesh to reclaim what was lost. They must remember their vows and serve those to whom they owe fealty.

While they toil in the deep places, we will journey to the shores of dragon lands, to the blessed isle where the Worldbreaker first embraced the whispers.

As one storm recedes, another rises. The torches have been lit. The secrets he buried will strike as a dagger into the hearts of his kin!

The Harbinger speaks of a primal power that seeks the end of Order. Such rage can be bent to serve our ends.

A hunger lost to the ages will be reclaimed. (Iridikron says this during the dungeon, regarding the essence from Galakrond)

A dark heart left broken awaits the taking.

When these things come to pass, the Harbinger will fulfill the final prophecy and complete the awakening.

Only then shall our Queen return to reign over sea and sky and earth. We must make ready.

Rise, rise! Soon all that was hidden will be revealed.

Looks like Azshara, Xal and Iridikron are all working together. Which is really funny considering the expectations of the Light stuff, but we have a Void Council first.

With the Harbinger very likely being Xalatath and the Harbinger fulfilling the "final prophecy", I have a feeling it's...

"At the hour of her third death, she will usher in our coming."

Xal "died" when she got shoved into the knife, and maybe died once before that. If she dies as a raid boss it may summon the Void Lords.

[Nymrohd]

Maybe the one who set the Primalists up and send them to the Reach is Xal, maybe with Azshara's help. Always felt that was a plot hole (how did the Primalists suddenly came to be and how did they recruit so many people).

[Kiivar86]

Honestly I'm all on board for void stuff if they continue that blue "jazz" aesthetic they started on.

Its funny to me, I've always been a big fan of the void stuff but I absolutely loathe the old god aesthetic. So the kinda soothing electric blue jazz stuff is my jam.

[Worldshaper]

Yeah, but you had a category for "vibes" expansions in your post and included MoP in it, even though MoP also deals with faction war and Old God plotlines.

Lots of expansions deal with the Old Gods and faction war. There are several recurring elements in WoW. We also see Gnolls, Murlocs, and Boars again and again. Titan artifacts. What have you.

The point about the trilogies isn't to say that Only TBC, WoD and Legion involve the Burning Legion for example. There are probably demons in every expansion. But rather that these three specifically push the story of the champions of Azeroth defeating Sargeras and his Crusade once and for all.

Similarly, Elementals, Shamanism, Void-stuff and Dragons aren't exclusive to the trilogy we're in now. But this trilogy specifically uses these elements in a focused way to tell the story of how the champions of Azeroth defeat the Void and survive the Hour of Twilight.

- - - Updated - - -

Honestly I'm all on board for void stuff if they continue that blue "jazz" aesthetic they started on.

Its funny to me, I've always been a big fan of the void stuff but I absolutely loathe the old god aesthetic. So the kinda soothing electric blue jazz stuff is my jam.

Same. Dislike tentacles and eyes. Love stars and galaxies.

[Cheezits]

Conversation between Alexstraza and Vyranoth

https://twitter.com/i/status/1678855006899036160

[Kiivar86]

Same. Dislike tentacles and eyes. Love stars and galaxies.

I'm ok with the occasional eye or tentacle at least but...well, I fucking hated the Ny'alotha gear, let's just leave it at that, heh.

Conversation between Alexstraza and Vyranoth

https://twitter.com/i/status/1678855006899036160

Neat. Definitely likely the buildup here. Not sure where things are going, but I also don't foresee Vyranoth being friendly anytime soon, either.