The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Limayria]

I mean if anything that helps draw a parallel.
There’s more to the Shadowlands beyond just what we’ve seen with the careful (ordered?) structure of the Shadowlands and the Eternal Ones.

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If the theory that the Titans ordered the Shadowlands and made the myth of the First Ones that would make Zereth Mortis a Titan installation.

Would make sense, why else would a Constellar so easily be able to go into Zereth Mortis to “observe”?
I wonder where else we’ve seen other Constellars being sent to Observe something…





I don’t recall a point where Tyrande ever said “Hey guys Elune is a life goddess!!”

never mind the fact the machines the jailer was tapping into that were connected to azeorth were titan machines build by titans when they ordered azeorth

[Merryck]

Could be that Elune is a Light and Life goddess. And An'she could be a Fire and Light aka Sacred Flame god. Refer to the Arathi cosmology chart, which establishes areas of overlap between the cosmological forces. Beings like Elune could inhabit these areas.

[Joshuaj]

I mean if anything that helps draw a parallel.
There’s more to the Shadowlands beyond just what we’ve seen with the careful (ordered?) structure of the Shadowlands and the Eternal Ones.

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If the theory that the Titans ordered the Shadowlands and made the myth of the First Ones that would make Zereth Mortis a Titan installation.

Would make sense, why else would a Constellar so easily be able to go into Zereth Mortis to “observe”?
I wonder where else we’ve seen other Constellars being sent to Observe something…





I don’t recall a point where Tyrande ever said “Hey guys Elune is a life goddess!!”

1. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Death, Light, and Order are powers of Rhythm and Structure. That's literally how it is. Also, Order affects the cosmos in a ton of ways, even with forces that aren't inherently structured. Look at the Black Empire, or the fact there is a cycle of Life and Death, etc. Order's influence on the cosmos spans a lot of areas.

2. Maybe not all constellar's are bound to the Titans? Maybe one of the First Ones appointed Rygelon to observe the Zereths when needed?

3. Why would the Titans have to make up the First Ones when, once again, their entire motto is that they take credit for things upfront, especially creation?

And 4. Doesn't Khadgar say the Night Elves praise Elune as a Life goddess? Also, Tyrande does call her the Moon Goddess and everything, but she also saw the powers at play within Ardenweald, and she knows about Elune's power upfront VIA being the Night Warrior and serving as Elune's Avatar in the creation of the Amirdrassil Worldseed. So...yeah.

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Could be that Elune is a Light and Life goddess. And An'she could be a Fire and Light aka Sacred Flame god. Refer to the Arathi cosmology chart, which establishes areas of overlap between the cosmological forces. Beings like Elune could inhabit these areas.

You can be a god or goddess of a specific force and still have the abilities of other powers. You literally have a Titan PFP, you should know this...

[Worldshaper]

The Titans being behind the Emerald Dream and the Shadowlands would be such a juicy TLT reveal, I agree.

Aman'thul:

1. Sees the future, realises everything is doomed and/or bound for chaos unless he goes to extreme lengths to protect his vision for the cosmos.
2. Works tirelessly to find the ideal timeline.
3. Literally goes back to the dawn of history to make sure the Emerald Dream and Shadowlands work the way they do.
4. Install Titan puppets like the Winter Queen and feed everybody false narrativs about the origins of the universe, to give them a sense of purpose. Like they gave Archaedas fake information about tbe Beledar being Azerite goo.

Meanwhile, characters like N'Zoth, Sylvanas, the Jailer, Elune and perhaps An'she have all sought to find another way forward (for better or worse; to escape the inevitable fate of all).

[Nightshade711]

1. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Death, Light, and Order are powers of Rhythm and Structure. That's literally how it is. Also, Order affects the cosmos in a ton of ways, even with forces that aren't inherently structured. Look at the Black Empire, or the fact there is a cycle of Life and Death, etc. Order's influence on the cosmos spans a lot of areas.

That is cool and all, but there was a distinct time in the Shadowlands BEFORE the Eternal Ones & the structure.
Almost as if somebody came in and ordered it.

Wonder who has shown a history of going into other realms to bring order to it. I wonder if that realm is also connected to the now structured realm of death.

Maybe not all constellar's are bound to the Titans? Maybe one of the First Ones appointed Rygelon to observe the Zereths when needed?

Maybe, but we’ve got nothing to suggest that.

3. Why would the Titans have to make up the First Ones when, once again, their entire motto is that they take credit for things upfront, especially creation?

I mean, that’s not always the case.
The Orcs didn’t know they descended from Titan creations. I don’t think there are even any Titan facilities or anything close to it on Draenor of the Titans “taking credit.”

Doesn't Khadgar say the Night Elves praise Elune as a Life goddess? Also, Tyrande does call her the Moon Goddess and everything, but she also saw the powers at play within Ardenweald, and she knows about Elune's power upfront VIA being the Night Warrior and serving as Elune's Avatar in the creation of the Amirdrassil Worldseed. So...yeahs

I don’t recall Khadgar saying that.
“Moon Goddess” ≠ Life Goddess.

Also weird how they talk about the “LIGHT” of Elune a lot.

You can be a god or goddess of a specific force and still have the abilities of other powers. You literally have a Titan PFP, you should know this...

So she could be a Light Goddess who also has the powers of life.
Would make sense, why would a Life Goddess create the Prime Naaru who was one of the first Naaru created?

[Cheezits]

As much as I like the idea of N'zoth/OG Sylvanas/Zovaal being secretly justified, I do wonder how the fanbase will take it.

I guess their minions killed enough innocent people to justify killing them?

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The Titans being behind the Emerald Dream and the Shadowlands would be such a juicy TLT reveal, I agree.

Aman'thul:

1. Sees the future, realises everything is doomed and/or bound for chaos unless he goes to extreme lengths to protect his vision for the cosmos.
2. Works tirelessly to find the ideal timeline.
3. Literally goes back to the dawn of history to make sure the Emerald Dream and Shadowlands work the way they do.
4. Install Titan puppets like the Winter Queen and feed everybody false narrativs about the origins of the universe, to give them a sense of purpose. Like they gave Archaedas fake information about tbe Beledar being Azerite goo.

Meanwhile, characters like N'Zoth, Sylvanas, the Jailer, Elune and perhaps An'she have all sought to find another way forward (for better or worse; to escape the inevitable fate of all).

Since Shadowlands I have teased the idea that them being the FIRST Ones would end up being a nod to them being related to time travel. An Aman'thul timeloop would make a lot of sense, and would require the level of secrecy that was hinted at by Odyn ordering everyone not to talk about them/hide them. Also considering the Primus likely knows and/or is perpetuating the lie, it would explain why he

A)Knows so much about the First Ones
B)Has "memories" (the gameplay items) of the Titans

Also, the sheer realization of the Titan's extent of universe fuckery may have been what drove Murozond to insanity.

[Nightshade711]

Since Shadowlands I have teased the idea that them being the FIRST Ones would end up being a nod to them being related to time travel. An Aman'thul timeloop would make a lot of sense.

Also, the sheer realization of the Titan's extent of universe fuckery may have been what drove Murozond to insanity.

I’d love if they brought back the proper Murozond storyline.
The one in DF was a travesty & basically went against everything that was previously set up for him.

But the real Murozond going crazy due to what he’s seen the Titans do makes perfect sense… given what he says when we kill him

You know not what you have done. Aman'Thul... What I... have... seen...

[Dvalin]

I’d imagine one of the experts on the nature of the Light would know what he’s talking about when he says something is similar to what he’s experienced with the light.

This statement/quote has been slightly altered in the fourth issue of Chronicles.

[Wyrt]

Elune's magic being arcane damage was always the dumbest thing. I know they originally did it just for spell resist/lockout reasons, but they went and made it lore for some reason.

It completely undermines the whole night elves banning arcane magic thing. They wouldn't ban the magic of their goddess, it makes no sense.

[Dvalin]

By the way, regarding the connection between X'era and Elune:
According to Chronicles 4: The 'Elune created the Naaru' mention by Khadgar in the Light's Heart questline has been altered to 'X'era and Elune may have shared a celestial connection'. Which could very well mean both have sprung from (in)direct creation by the First Ones.

[Cheezits]

By the way, regarding the connection between X'era and Elune:
According to Chronicles 4: The 'Elune created the Naaru' mention by Khadgar in the Light's Heart questline has been altered to 'X'era and Elune may have shared a celestial connection'. Which could very well mean both have sprung from (in)direct creation by the First Ones.

Or, Elune got her solar powers by working with Xe'ra and/or Xe'ras boss (because I really doubt that windchime that got oneshot is the strongest god of light).

Elune works with Eonar in Order, Winter Queen in Death, and Xe'ra/others in Light. I wonder if Xal is connected to her someone for Void/Darkness powers?

I doubt she works with Fel at all... but the Grell DO exist...

I wouldn't be too surprised if her true form has many arms to point at how extended she is actors the universe. Maybe she's a spider? That would explain the ghost spider from Zereth Mortis at least.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spider_Grandmother

This is the mythology I was thinking about. Wizard101 also did a riff on it.

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Shade_of_Irik-tu

Firim also asked about the origin of the mortal realm, to which Irik-tu explained that their people believed in a thousand-legged god whose eggs had brought forth all of existence. Firim privately dismissed this as nothing more than a superstitious fable and bid Irik-tu good journeys.[1]

[Joshuaj]

That is cool and all, but there was a distinct time in the Shadowlands BEFORE the Eternal Ones & the structure.
Almost as if somebody came in and ordered it.

Wonder who has shown a history of going into other realms to bring order to it. I wonder if that realm is also connected to the now structured realm of death.


Maybe, but we’ve got nothing to suggest that.


I mean, that’s not always the case.
The Orcs didn’t know they descended from Titan creations. I don’t think there are even any Titan facilities or anything close to it on Draenor of the Titans “taking credit.”


I don’t recall Khadgar saying that.
“Moon Goddess” ≠ Life Goddess.

Also weird how they talk about the “LIGHT” of Elune a lot.


So she could be a Light Goddess who also has the powers of life.
Would make sense, why would a Life Goddess create the Prime Naaru who was one of the first Naaru created?

We know Marasmus was there before the Winter Queen appeared. This implies Ardenweald existed before her. Wanna know what that means? Nothing Titan related. That just means the First Ones made the realms first, then placed the pantheon members there.

"The Orcs didn’t know they descended from Titan creations. I don’t think there are even any Titan facilities or anything close to it on Draenor of the Titans “taking credit.”"

Aggramar didn't need to add any facilities tbf. He used his own power to make the Grond and whatnot.

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Also, the fact Chronicle talks about that means the mortals know Aggramar influenced Draenor.

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Or, Elune got her solar powers by working with Xe'ra and/or Xe'ras boss (because I really doubt that windchime that got oneshot is the strongest god of light).

Elune works with Eonar in Order, Winter Queen in Death, and Xe'ra/others in Light. I wonder if Xal is connected to her someone for Void/Darkness powers?

I doubt she works with Fel at all... but the Grell DO exist...

I wouldn't be too surprised if her true form has many arms to point at how extended she is actors the universe. Maybe she's a spider? That would explain the ghost spider from Zereth Mortis at least.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spider_Grandmother

This is the mythology I was thinking about. Wizard101 also did a riff on it.

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Shade_of_Irik-tu

Firim also asked about the origin of the mortal realm, to which Irik-tu explained that their people believed in a thousand-legged god whose eggs had brought forth all of existence. Firim privately dismissed this as nothing more than a superstitious fable and bid Irik-tu good journeys.[1]

Been saying this for the longest time, but it is possible the Naaru serve as host bodies for the Lords of Light.

[Nightshade711]

We know Marasmus was there before the Winter Queen appeared. This implies Ardenweald existed before her. Wanna know what that means? Nothing Titan related. That just means the First Ones made the realms first, then placed the pantheon members there.

If that were the case they probably woulda just made the Winter Queen first so she could get to work day 1.

Makes more sense that she was created and sent in to order Ardenweald/bring it into the titans vision/system of Ardenweald -> Emerald Dream.

[Joshuaj]

If that were the case they probably woulda just made the Winter Queen first so she could get to work day 1.

Makes more sense that she was created and sent in to order Ardenweald/bring it into the titans vision/system of Ardenweald -> Emerald Dream.

The First Ones probably wanted to make sure the Afterlives were in proper condition before sending in the Pantheon Members.

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The Titans being behind the Emerald Dream and the Shadowlands would be such a juicy TLT reveal, I agree.

Aman'thul:

1. Sees the future, realises everything is doomed and/or bound for chaos unless he goes to extreme lengths to protect his vision for the cosmos.
2. Works tirelessly to find the ideal timeline.
3. Literally goes back to the dawn of history to make sure the Emerald Dream and Shadowlands work the way they do.
4. Install Titan puppets like the Winter Queen and feed everybody false narrativs about the origins of the universe, to give them a sense of purpose. Like they gave Archaedas fake information about tbe Beledar being Azerite goo.

Meanwhile, characters like N'Zoth, Sylvanas, the Jailer, Elune and perhaps An'she have all sought to find another way forward (for better or worse; to escape the inevitable fate of all).

Again, a silly thing when you consider:

1. The Titans utilized the Emerald Dream for their Azeroth blueprints, they never actually made it based off Chronicle and DF.

And 2. The Shadowlands spans the universe, it's not just Azeroth bound.

[Nightshade711]

The First Ones probably wanted to make sure the Afterlives were in proper condition before sending in the Pantheon Members.

That doesn’t really make sense tbh.

Again, a silly thing when you consider:

1. The Titans utilized the Emerald Dream for their Azeroth blueprints, they never actually made it based off Chronicle and DF.

This actually helps support the whole “titans ordered the shadowlands” theory.
Why else would the realm of death connect directly to the titan’s blueprints for Azeroth?

And 2. The Shadowlands spans the universe, it's not just Azeroth bound.

Perhaps similar systems are in place for other planets too.

[Worldshaper]

]
Again, a silly thing when you consider:

1. The Titans utilized the Emerald Dream for their Azeroth blueprints, they never actually made it based off Chronicle and DF.

And 2. The Shadowlands spans the universe, it's not just Azeroth bound.

I think it's still canon that Freya ordered the part of Emerald Dream that we know of, while whatever else is outside it might be some kind of "lifelands"-type of realm that connects all worlds.

Just like the Shadowlands. We visit a few ordered realms out of many, and clearly there's stuff going on outside the playable map as well (especially in Ardenweald).

Wouldn't surprise me if there's another layer to it all.

Maybe Aman'Thul tasked Eonar with ordering the part of the Great Cycle that affected Azeroth. Ensuring the realms of Life and Death wouldn't upend his plans.

Then, perhaps two naaru, or maybe the White Lady and the Blue Child, or whatever (Elune and the Winter Queen) worked with Eonar to ensure the souls they required were sent back over and over. Chiefly the Wild Gods.

Kaldorei weren't even allowed to leave Azeroth on death. They were too precious to her.

Perhaps it was all some secret plan. A failsafe to ensure life stood a chance. That it could fight back.

[Nightshade711]

I think it's still canon that Freya ordered the part of Emerald Dream that we know of, while whatever else is outside it might be some kind of "lifelands"-type of realm that connects all worlds.

Just like the Shadowlands. We visit a few ordered realms out of many, and clearly there's stuff going on outside the playable map as well (especially in Ardenweald).

Wouldn't surprise me if there's another layer to it all.

Maybe Aman'Thul tasked Eonar with ordering the part of the Great Cycle that affected Azeroth. Ensuring the realms of Life and Death wouldn't upend his plans.

Then, perhaps two naaru, or maybe the White Lady and the Blue Child, or whatever (Elune and the Winter Queen) worked with Eonar to ensure the souls they required were sent back over and over. Chiefly the Wild Gods.

Kaldorei weren't even allowed to leave Azeroth on death. They were too precious to her.

Perhaps it was all some secret plan. A failsafe to ensure life stood a chance. That it could fight back.

I wouldn’t be surprised if there are several other “Emerald Dreams” out there for other planets as well.

[Joshuaj]

I think it's still canon that Freya ordered the part of Emerald Dream that we know of, while whatever else is outside it might be some kind of "lifelands"-type of realm that connects all worlds.

Just like the Shadowlands. We visit a few ordered realms out of many, and clearly there's stuff going on outside the playable map as well (especially in Ardenweald).

Wouldn't surprise me if there's another layer to it all.

Maybe Aman'Thul tasked Eonar with ordering the part of the Great Cycle that affected Azeroth. Ensuring the realms of Life and Death wouldn't upend his plans.

Then, perhaps two naaru, or maybe the White Lady and the Blue Child, or whatever (Elune and the Winter Queen) worked with Eonar to ensure the souls they required were sent back over and over. Chiefly the Wild Gods.

Kaldorei weren't even allowed to leave Azeroth on death. They were too precious to her.

Perhaps it was all some secret plan. A failsafe to ensure life stood a chance. That it could fight back.

Ardenweald is anything but ordered though, what? Heck, it doesn't look like the Dream, which had a more stable vibe to it.

Also, of course there's more going on with the Covenant realms outside of what we saw. We only saw the main areas where the Death Pantheon ruled. And yes, we know Eonar ordered part of the Dream. My argument is that the Dream itself is probably Elune's Realm, and there are probably Dream reflections of different worlds, or in my opinion, of the Worldsouls. This would explain things such as the Rift of Aln, etc, as I believe the Rift of Aln is the source of Azeroth's Dreams. The Dream entire being Elune's Realm would make for a far better comparison with Ardenweald, as the ordered Emerald Dream has no area akin to the Heart of the Forest, while Elune's area probably does.

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I wouldn’t be surprised if there are several other “Emerald Dreams” out there for other planets as well.

https://www.wowhead.com/item=208649/...e-of-the-dream

"Many times I have shrugged off the call of sleep and taken wing to explore the distant reaches of the Dream. The farther I flew, the greater the wonders I beheld.

Life took forms strange and unfamiliar. Bizarre, impossible plants and trees. Creatures unlike any I beheld before.

Perhaps the Dream is bound not only to Azeroth, but to realms not yet discovered. Is it a reflection of those places, too?"

All but downright confirmed.

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Bringing things back to Elune, this is what Aviana: Elune's Chosen's signature art looks like. The magics here are VERY Ardenweald-esc, but are also very celestial and colorful. Makes me wonder if this is our first look at Elune's Life Magics. Ik it's not canon, but I wouldn't be shocked if Blizzard took from this art as a future reference.

[Ersula]

Makes me wonder if this is our first look at Elune's Life Magics

Elune's magic is literally everywhere in the game. She begot it to her son & he begot that magic to Tauren & Night Elf druids. That it looks a lot like Ardenweald's magic (her sister's magic) need an explanation? The so-called-gods' powers are not limited to their cosmic sphere; this has already been well established.

[Joshuaj]

Elune's magic is literally everywhere in the game. That it looks a lot like Ardenweald's magic (her sister's magic) need an explanation? The so-called-gods' powers are not limited to their cosmic sphere; this has already been well established.

I said our first look at Elune's Life Magic, as we haven't had a proper look at it yet.

Also, it does look like Ardenweald's magics a bit, but a couple things: 1. This is Aviana's art as "Elune's Chosen". 2. The magics look far more vibrant. And 3. This is from the Emerald Dream expansion, which has a lot of Elune imagery in the cards.

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Yes, different forces are connected with different cosmic spheres. Dunno why that is relevant here.