The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[shooketh]

Setting aside the story, the game is in a very good state. With quite a decent reward structure, it respecting your time and with many things to do.

I already addressed this. Gameplay wise, it's gotten way better. Story wise, not so much.

TWW is not a carbon copy of DF's style of writing

It may not be a carbon copy, but it's following the same patterns. The rule of cool is missing. The 'show, don't tell' concept is missing. Just one-dimensional characters sending the same unified message of friendship, tolerance, acceptance and how we all must 'do better', in between long episodes of trauma dumps. If you shove every character into the same ideological paradigm of being the morally superior good guy, and you write every character more or less the same, then you get a boring, bland world with no nuance or intrigue.

People needed DF. They needed something more relaxing, setting up future conflicts.

I like to think that there's a whole lot of middle ground between something like Shadowlands and Disn- sorry, Dragonflight.

Now regarding the 'tone' of TWW. Have you even played it?

Yes I did, and so far I am not impressed to be honest. And this is not an uncommon opinion to have by the way.

WoW has never been grimderp, and never will be. It will always need to have a cozy side of things (collecting, player housing, etc.).

It used to be way more mature, and it didn't shy way from exploring themes like slavery or racism. Or having dark, cool and unique races like the Undead. Characters had their own personalities and motives and they didn't hold back on trying to achieve them. Now you have everyone forming councils, holding hands to decide what to do so nobody gets offended with every race being sanded down so anything that could be deemed 'controversial' is removed.

Anyway, you just seem to be here, spewing your point about the state of WoW's story and not actually being open for other people's thoughts.

I am very open about what your thoughts are, that's why I'm taking the time to read them, I just happen to disagree with most of them.

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The Jailer didn't kill himself dude. Neither did N'Zoth, Fyrakk, Gallywix, Ragnaros, Archimonde, Kil'jaeden, Argus, etc

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Just because we don't talk, that doesn't mean we're not main characters

I get that, but even if you kill a raid boss, you're still a small part of that effort. You're not THE one that did it. You're just a part of the collective.
Also I'm pretty sure that a couple of those were finished off by some of the main characters. Velen disenchanting KJ comes to mind.

[KyleEverett]

The Nerubians as an ally of convenience should have been used more. The Weaver's definitely more morally gray than us but she's relegated to World Quests mostly.

[Jaggler]

The Nerubians as an ally of convenience should have been used more. The Weaver's definitely more morally gray than us but she's relegated to World Quests mostly.

If 11.2 is the root lands, then it's possible that the Nerubians play a more active role, considering it's apparent proximity. At least I hope so. There are quite a few threads (heh) that could be followed up (What's going on with the mutated queen, how are the ascended treated without Ansurek etc., who will leed the Kaheti in the future) Considering we are currently weeding out the last rebellious spooders, they should be set up pretty well for the future.

[Nymrohd]

I still don't get why it is Nerubians. I guess when TWW was designed, the Saga did not exist so TLT being in Northrend was not a thing yet. It feels such a waste that we don't get to see the Qiraji get the Mantid world building treatment when the Nerubians could have gotten this in TLT.

Personally my ideal concept for Azj'kahet would be for it to have expatriates from all Aqir nations, a place where those who stopped following the Old Gods congregated. Then it could have Mantid, Nerubians and Qiraji and feel like a massive threat merging their cultures and technologies. World building remains what the Blizzard lore team is great at.

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If 11.2 is the root lands, then it's possible that the Nerubians play a more active role, considering it's apparent proximity. At least I hope so. There are quite a few threads (heh) that could be followed up (What's going on with the mutated queen, how are the ascended treated without Ansurek etc., who will leed the Kaheti in the future) Considering we are currently weeding out the last rebellious spooders, they should be set up pretty well for the future.

There is an 11.2.5 and 11.2.7. Blizzard for once did a solid story with DF in actually closing the storylines of the expansion. Something they historically have been horrible at except maybe with MoP where Shaohao gave some resolution (even though how he was still around was never adequately explained imo).

[Jaggler]

There is an 11.2.5 and 11.2.7. Blizzard for once did a solid story with DF in actually closing the storylines of the expansion. Something they historically have been horrible at except maybe with MoP where Shaohao gave some resolution (even though how he was still around was never adequately explained imo).

Yeah, I'd just think it would be neat if the Nerubians would play a role in the fight against the void, who mutated their old queen and almost destroyed their kingdom. Spider vs. Ethereal sounds fun.

[Nymrohd]

Btw 11.2 is approaching. Every expansion so far has had either legendaries for all (rings and cloaks) or two or more class restricted legendaries. What does everyone think will happen with TWW and then with Midnight/TLT? I don't think TWW will have two class restricted legendaries in one patch (though I prefer them and would love to see it). Does anyone think either Midnight or TLT might go back to the Legion or (more likely) Shadowlands system of many legendaries for everyone? Or do we consider that return to Borrowed Power (which apparently tier sets, Cyrce's and the new Belt are not . . .)

[shooketh]

Btw 11.2 is approaching. Every expansion so far has had either legendaries for all (rings and cloaks) or two or more class restricted legendaries. What does everyone think will happen with TWW and then with Midnight/TLT? I don't think TWW will have two class restricted legendaries in one patch (though I prefer them and would love to see it). Does anyone think either Midnight or TLT might go back to the Legion or (more likely) Shadowlands system of many legendaries for everyone? Or do we consider that return to Borrowed Power (which apparently tier sets, Cyrce's and the new Belt are not . . .)

I think that there hasn't been a caster legendary in a while, right? Last 2 ones were from DF, and it was the axe and the evoker power glove
Atiesh looks very likely imo. I think that having a 1-2 legendaries per expansion is fine, if everyone gets them, I feel like it cheapens their status

[Limayria]

Btw 11.2 is approaching. Every expansion so far has had either legendaries for all (rings and cloaks) or two or more class restricted legendaries. What does everyone think will happen with TWW and then with Midnight/TLT? I don't think TWW will have two class restricted legendaries in one patch (though I prefer them and would love to see it). Does anyone think either Midnight or TLT might go back to the Legion or (more likely) Shadowlands system of many legendaries for everyone? Or do we consider that return to Borrowed Power (which apparently tier sets, Cyrce's and the new Belt are not . . .)

I could see us getting a legendary in 11.2.5 or something thats like a ring open to everyone or something, I personally would like to see a new itteration of artifacts in midnight using systems like the cyrce's and the new belt with customizeable powers

Also in regards to legion remix I really hope instead of generic "damage proc" gems and whatever else, we get artifact relics again for our remix specific borrowed power and they gave us talent points so we can try builds with 3/4/5/6 extra talent points

[Nymrohd]

I think that there hasn't been a caster legendary in a while, right? Last 2 ones were from DF, and it was the axe and the evoker power glove
Atiesh looks very likely imo. I think that having a 1-2 legendaries per expansion is fine, if everyone gets them, I feel like it cheapens their status

Imo a caster one and an agility class legendary would be solid. If it is Rootlands & K'aresh together as I've suggested, a K'aresh themed Void/Cosmic Caster staff (or off hand!, like a mini-black hole following you around) and an Elun'ahir-themed Agility staff for Feral Druids, Monks, Survival Hunters would be cool

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Also in regards to legion remix I really hope instead of generic "damage proc" gems and whatever else, we get artifact relics again for our remix specific borrowed power and they gave us talent points so we can try builds with 3/4/5/6 extra talent points

With Endless Mythic+ I really hope they find a way to combine artifacts, legendaries and Netherlight Crucible to give us some insane infinite scaling. The potential for craziness is there (but I hope it is class based instead of proc based. I want Diablo-like +10000% modifier to Pyroblast not a proc that does 10million damage).

[Scyth]

Btw 11.2 is approaching. Every expansion so far has had either legendaries for all (rings and cloaks) or two or more class restricted legendaries. What does everyone think will happen with TWW and then with Midnight/TLT? I don't think TWW will have two class restricted legendaries in one patch (though I prefer them and would love to see it). Does anyone think either Midnight or TLT might go back to the Legion or (more likely) Shadowlands system of many legendaries for everyone? Or do we consider that return to Borrowed Power (which apparently tier sets, Cyrce's and the new Belt are not . . .)

Casters are definitely getting a legendary next as it’s been a while.

DHs have never got one right? We might get a Warglaive one or some Agility based one.

Also, the next year looks a bit mental for WoW. MoP Classic maybe in July, S3 and Midnight announcement in August, Legion Remix in December? And Midnight release a few months after.
Imagine having other games to play..

[Dracullus]

Btw 11.2 is approaching. Every expansion so far has had either legendaries for all (rings and cloaks) or two or more class restricted legendaries. What does everyone think will happen with TWW and then with Midnight/TLT? I don't think TWW will have two class restricted legendaries in one patch (though I prefer them and would love to see it). Does anyone think either Midnight or TLT might go back to the Legion or (more likely) Shadowlands system of many legendaries for everyone? Or do we consider that return to Borrowed Power (which apparently tier sets, Cyrce's and the new Belt are not . . .)

Yes, Legion/SL legendary style is just borrowed power. But no existence of borrowed power is problem - cause as you said tier sets are as well - overcomplicated systems are. Now you think about right spec, right talent for that spec and right stats for gear, tier sets are just thing you chase, legendaries add another layer you have to research.

(Btw that's why I would love if next big class revamp will just remove specs and leave one big talent tree for class, with some builded in presets for hybrid classes.)

Imo perfect legendary system is just rare raid only drop (and let be honest, a weapon), but with 1 major disclaimer - it shouldn't be more powerful than regular weapon on this item level. Legendary status should come from lore significance and some amazing transmog + special cosmetic effect.

[Darkarath]

Btw 11.2 is approaching. Every expansion so far has had either legendaries for all (rings and cloaks) or two or more class restricted legendaries. What does everyone think will happen with TWW and then with Midnight/TLT? I don't think TWW will have two class restricted legendaries in one patch (though I prefer them and would love to see it). Does anyone think either Midnight or TLT might go back to the Legion or (more likely) Shadowlands system of many legendaries for everyone? Or do we consider that return to Borrowed Power (which apparently tier sets, Cyrce's and the new Belt are not . . .)

We already had the Siren Isle ring and we are getting a new belt with its own talent tree in TWW. I guess that we would get a legendary in the next raid but I don't think that we need anything else.

IMO Legion and SL legendary systems were a disaster and I hope that they never return. Hopefully they would fix Hero Talents first before adding even more layers of unnecessary complexity.

Imo perfect legendary system is just rare raid only drop (and let be honest, a weapon), but with 1 major disclaimer - it shouldn't be more powerful than regular weapon on this item level. Legendary status should come from lore significance and some amazing transmog + special cosmetic effect.

Pretty much this. You cannot have it any other way in a MMO and Blizzard should know better by now.

[Nymrohd]

IMO Legion and SL legendary systems were a disaster and I hope that they never return. Hopefully they would fix Hero Talents first before adding even more layers of unnecessary complexity.

I'd say the legendaries in Legion were great, the system itself was bad. I LOVE the legendary toast from Legion. Best feedback WoW ever had for rewards. But that entire acquisition system was a mess and then the end version was worse by being so boring.
Shadowlands system was mostly great imo, the only problem was HOW you got the currency. If they did the Shadowlands system now, you'd get the currency with a cumulative weekly cap acquirable from every activity in the game. I enjoyed getting Memories everywhere and the way you got the items was cool (BUT I hated how generic it felt and that you got no weapons; the cool part was that this is the place Frostmourne and the Helm of Domination were made after all, you want things to feel THAT legendary)

[Darkarath]

I'd say the legendaries in Legion were great, the system itself was bad. I LOVE the legendary toast from Legion. Best feedback WoW ever had for rewards. But that entire acquisition system was a mess and then the end version was worse by being so boring.
Shadowlands system was mostly great imo, the only problem was HOW you got the currency. If they did the Shadowlands system now, you'd get the currency with a cumulative weekly cap acquirable from every activity in the game. I enjoyed getting Memories everywhere and the way you got the items was cool (BUT I hated how generic it felt and that you got no weapons; the cool part was that this is the place Frostmourne and the Helm of Domination were made after all, you want things to feel THAT legendary)

I just think that WoW has to move away from adding modifiers to an already enough complicated class system.

I do believe that in Midnight or TLT we would have another Artifact system similar to the Legion one. I don't know how they would combine it with Hero Talents because if they add yet another artifact talent tree on top of the Hero Talent tree they could create a fine mess. I hope that the new Artifact system is purely cosmetic. I would not be surprised if they do with artifact weapons what they have done with Dragonriding mounts and the Delve mount, letting us getting new parts and colours for our weapons to customize them.

Also Taliesin mentioned that today Blizzard gathers in Boston a few streamers for a secret event. Probably related to Housing or Legion Remix. We will have information about it this week. Independently of this event, I feel that we can get new info regarding 11.2, Legion Remix and Housing at any moment from now on. Midnight reveal is not that far away.

[Nymrohd]

Also Taliesin mentioned that today Blizzard gathers in Boston a few streamers for a secret event. Probably related to Housing or Legion Remix. We will have information about it this week. Independently of this event, I feel that we can get new info regarding 11.2, Legion Remix and Housing at any moment from now on. Midnight reveal is not that far away.

I hope they test and also ask for feedback for Legion Remix (and actually bother with the feedback). MoP remix had some early issues that should have easily been avoided.

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I just think that WoW has to move away from adding modifiers to an already enough complicated class system.

See, I think that often they overdesign legendaries. It doesn't need to add a proc or change how an ability works entirely. Just pick a low or mid priority ability and slap a +400% damage modifier on it.

[Lady Atia]

Btw 11.2 is approaching. Every expansion so far has had either legendaries for all (rings and cloaks) or two or more class restricted legendaries. What does everyone think will happen with TWW and then with Midnight/TLT? I don't think TWW will have two class restricted legendaries in one patch (though I prefer them and would love to see it). Does anyone think either Midnight or TLT might go back to the Legion or (more likely) Shadowlands system of many legendaries for everyone? Or do we consider that return to Borrowed Power (which apparently tier sets, Cyrce's and the new Belt are not . . .)

We will recraft Atiesh. The setup is there and it's a nice nod to the original Atiesh questline if we have to gather it's fragments first etc.

I really hope they didn't drop the concept of legendaries because people complained that the DF ones were "mandatory" and the crafting part was shitty done. Maybe they didn't want players to drop their legendary going from the second raid into the third (or having to farm it and play with a weapon that has less gs overall), or they just didnt had any ideas for a goblin weapon. Gally's azerite cone could have worked as healer mace imo, but maybe they thought it was either too plain or had no real history. Or it was only really useful for Paladins because every other healer can use Atiesh next patch aswell, and having two legendaries in a row for most healers would have felt weird.

Legendaries for all with no history, context, connection to a character and without any unique models were the worst thing that ever happened to the game.

[huth]

I mean, to be fair, between MoP's "You want a reason to siege Orgrimmar? Robot spy dog" and BfA's. Everything, it was abundantly clear they'd have to do something because all they'd manage to do with how they handled the factions was entirely kill one side of the game. On US servers you rolled Horde, on Oceanic servers you rolled Alliance, and you could not play the game at high level on your server if you were the opposite faction

pro tip for anyone doing a faction based MMO: Giving one faction preferential treatment and three massive cinematics where they get all the limelight and exceedingly popular fox people, whereas the other one gets diaper gnomes and just stands awkwardly around because you didn't make them any content so they get invited like a plus one, probably isn't good for the future of your faction based content. At least 11.1.7 tries to give each side their own thing in Arathi

The actual lesson is to not do hard player segregation by those factions. By BfA, the imbalance was already bad enough that the actual content had no meaningful impact. Which is why they're increasingly removing it.

[Nymrohd]

The actual lesson is to not do hard player segregation by those factions. By BfA, the imbalance was already bad enough that the actual content had no meaningful impact. Which is why they're increasingly removing it.

It really should have been like it is now from day one. Keep the faction storylines as hardcore as you want, for PvE allow cross-faction guilds and grouping immediately. ESO does it while having a zone where the three factions murder each other daily.

[Dracullus]

Also Taliesin mentioned that today Blizzard gathers in Boston a few streamers for a secret event. Probably related to Housing or Legion Remix. We will have information about it this week. Independently of this event, I feel that we can get new info regarding 11.2, Legion Remix and Housing at any moment from now on. Midnight reveal is not that far away.

At this point 11.2 is most likely, it's nearest big thing in line just month away from now. I think all these 11.1.7 questlines are smokescreen to hide real 11.2 prologue that isn't tested, we will get big hint on release day and then reveal on Thursday with interviews, PTR and pre-recorded gameplay from streamers.

Bigger housing news at this point are most likely saved for Gamescom/Midnight reveal, Legion Remix is even more further away - it's not that big to hype it before 11.2.7 PTR.

I hope they test and also ask for feedback for Legion Remix (and actually bother with the feedback). MoP remix had some early issues that should have easily been avoided.

Only big issue was Blizzard expecting us to farm bronze for months. But sadly this attitute repeated few times since then (TWW pre-patch, anniversary tokens) - Blizzard going cheap with rewards, people storm reddit/wowhead, Blizzard fix it in few days achieving nothing.

Blizzard could also split currency for cosmetics and player power. I remember trying to explain people that buying mounts before max item level is stupid, but barely anyone listen - they bought shiny mounts with all bronze, then struggled a lot, then maxed gear anyway.

[Lahis]

Blizzard could also split currency for cosmetics and player power. I remember trying to explain people that buying mounts before max item level is stupid, but barely anyone listen - they bought shiny mounts with all bronze, then struggled a lot, then maxed gear anyway.

Putting tons of bronze into gear instead of cosmetics just prolnged the grind fro no reason.

Once I had completed the grind for comsetic, I didn't need to grind anymore. Had I wasted bronze for upgrades, I would still have had as much grinding left.