The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Samin]

why are they gonna add a collecting event with a brand new pillar of collecting game play not added to it? im not saying you'll be able to build your house, but a small quest line about "building the neighborhood" and leading to use being able to collect furnishings would make a lot of sense to launch along side remix

Because the housing system isn't ready to be pushed to live servers when they want to/need to do Remix. It's not inherently impossible to detach the furniture collection from the rest of housing, but it's likely that it's not intended to be and as such wouldn't be feasible (i.e. with no to minimal effort). I'm not saying "definitely not", just "it would be a huge surprise to me if".

And that's just the objective technical point of view. One could argue about the whole furniture collection being a mjaor feature of Midnight (and presumably it's prepatch) and adding "freebies" from a Remix before the system is even really available might spoil a part of that. And yes Housing is everygreen, but it'll be a Midnight feature just like the profession rework was a DF feature.

[Worldshaper]

Ideal scenario, imo:

- 11.2 gets announced next Wednesday once Horrific Visions are out. Instead of the June 25th date.

- 11.2 contains suspicious Midnight pre-purchase clues in its data for us to speculate about.

- 11.2 is also the patch that contains all the Legion Remix data so we get a bunch of sweet transmog from that to look at.

- 11.2 contains the Dwarven Charm and Fel Festivities Trading Post loot (Sep and Oct), so we get a peek at those as well.

- 11.2 takes care of Beledar, the Undersea, and K'aresh so we get that stuff sorted once and for all. Beledar is how we get to K'aresh.

- 11.2 reveals Xal'atath's full backstory and teaches us what she's seeking to do on Azeroth - and what role N'Zoth has.

- 11.2 tier sets based around the Ethereals, both when their world was alive and thriving, and when they had turned into Ethereals.

- 11.2 lays the groundwork for playable Ethereals in 11.2.5, so we can level those in time for Midnight.

- 11.2 contains a host of Housing-related activities so players can work to unlock all of it in a more focused manner before housing launch.

- 11.2 contains a Pandaren heritage questline, to drop appropriately when MoP Classic is about to launch. There's also a Classic version of the set.

Let's go!

[Merryck]

Locus Walker could easily bring us to K'aresh. If Azir can portal to K'aresh, then Locus Walker certainly could too.

[Worldshaper]

Locus Walker could easily bring us to K'aresh. If Azir can portal to K'aresh, then Locus Walker certainly could too.

Doesn't sound too epic, though. Would he just open a portal?

Imagine stepping into Beledar to explore it for a bit, have an earth-shattering revelation about its origins by studying objects inside, reading a couple of books, etc. Maybe there are murals depicting the fall, or slumbering Naaru. Then there's a small cutscene, before you step outside of it and find yourself on K'aresh.

[Dracullus]

Locus Walker could easily bring us to K'aresh. If Azir can portal to K'aresh, then Locus Walker certainly could too.

They can invent 20 ways how to teleport there. Problem is how out of blue it will be, especially if 11.1.7 have just Arathi stuff without Karesh prologue (I really hope prologue is hidden though). All evidence we have - and they are strong evidences - are from datamining and single shot in final Undermine cinematic.

Compare this to Legion, Argus was build up through every patch: Sargerai Keystone, defending Exodar, Turalyon, Illidan already invading Legion during TBC, Medivh in Karazhan saying that "shutting the door isn't enough, we have to pass through it", first look during Guldan fight, 7.2 prologue cinematic, finally opening the gate after KJ fight.

Sorry, but 6.2 is more cohesive than Karesh now, cause at least Guldan and Legion were present from the start. It would mean that Metzen didn't really fit TWW into Saga, just kept 11.0 almost unchanged, threw disconnected Undermine as breather and start something completely new in 11.2.

[Enrif]

What we are missing in fantasy underground settings is grand underground vaults like Moria.

That is basically the northern part of the ringing deeps, including the vault with the new earthen

[Hitei]

They can invent 20 ways how to teleport there. Problem is how out of blue it will be, especially if 11.1.7 have just Arathi stuff without Karesh prologue (I really hope prologue is hidden though). All evidence we have - and they are strong evidences - are from datamining and single shot in final Undermine cinematic.

Compare this to Legion, Argus was build up through every patch: Sargerai Keystone, defending Exodar, Turalyon, Illidan already invading Legion during TBC, Medivh in Karazhan saying that "shutting the door isn't enough, we have to pass through it", first look during Guldan fight, 7.2 prologue cinematic, finally opening the gate after KJ fight.

Sorry, but 6.2 is more cohesive than Karesh now, cause at least Guldan and Legion were present from the start. It would mean that Metzen didn't really fit TWW into Saga, just kept 11.0 almost unchanged, threw disconnected Undermine as breather and start something completely new in 11.2.

This is what I've been saying since the start.

The issue is not can K'aresh potentially be 11.2, or can we get there. It's that even in 11.1.7 we have zero actual setup for going there. By 10.1.7 we had full-on Dreamsurges happening and a whole quest chain about Fyrakk mustering forces to invade the Emerald Dream. By 9.1 we had a whole campaign about figuring out what the Jailer was attempting to do and then re-creating the sigils so that we could follow him to Zereth Mortis.

Where the hell is all the K'aresh stuff? We have a small lore 11.1.7 thing about BC Ethereals, Locus-walker and Brokers. Who are we fighting? Xal still? Her and what allies since apparently the Ethereals rug-pulled her? Dimensius who has not even really been brought up in the storyline so far? The Ethereum that haven't really shown up? The Shadowguard who made a very brief appearance? When are our characters even going to properly find out that we need to go get ready and go there? Is 11.2 just gonna drop and then in the span of five quests we're gonna learn Xal went to another planet and hop on through a portal to get there? Are all the Khaz Algar friendly factions just going to instantly prepare and warp in with us?

[Worldshaper]

This is what I've been saying since the start.

The issue is not can K'aresh potentially be 11.2, or can we get there. It's that even in 11.1.7 we have zero actual setup for going there. By 10.1.7 we had full-on Dreamsurges happening and a whole quest chain about Fyrakk mustering forces to invade the Emerald Dream. By 9.1 we had a whole campaign about figuring out what the Jailer was attempting to do and then re-creating the sigils so that we could follow him to Zereth Mortis.

Where the hell is all the K'aresh stuff? We have a small lore 11.1.7 thing about BC Ethereals, Locus-walker and Brokers. Who are we fighting? Xal still? Her and what allies since apparently the Ethereals rug-pulled her? Dimensius who has not even really been brought up in the storyline so far? The Ethereum that haven't really shown up? The Shadowguard who made a very brief appearance? When are our characters even going to properly find out that we need to go get ready and go there? Is 11.2 just gonna drop and then in the span of five quests we're gonna learn Xal went to another planet and hop on through a portal to get there? Are all the Khaz Algar friendly factions just going to instantly prepare and warp in with us?

We do have the Lorewalking quests, and the Horrific Visions will be starting up soon. So I think the Voidy theme will at the very least become more apparent again soon. Beyond that, it's not like the other potential 11.2 themes have been built up much, either.

[Hitei]

We do have the Lorewalking quests, and the Horrific Visions will be starting up soon. So I think the Voidy theme will at the very least become more apparent again soon. Beyond that, it's not like the other potential 11.2 themes have been built up much, either.

The Lorewalking quests don't set anything up though. It's about the Ethereals in BC and Locus-Walker's involvement in Legion. In fact, Cho even doubles down on K'aresh having been "destroyed" and that the Ethereals fled it. You can't even ask him about K'aresh in the additional dialogue options, just Dimensius, Nexus-King and Netherstorm.

Horrific Visions are about the unseeming/black blood.

-

But this is kinda to my point. Like why, rather than Lorewalking, is there not a questline about learning about K'aresh, or a questline about trying to attune to the Heart or Xal's energy to figure out where it is, where you then figure out it's on K'aresh ending with forces preparing? Hell, why not at least put into the Lorewalking that K'aresh was left a desolate fractured wasteland, etc. other stuff to suggest it's an actual place that we're gonna be at in three months rather than talk about it like it's gone?

The last time there was such a non sequitur kind of location and theme was like 2.4.

[Worldshaper]

The Lorewalking quests don't set anything up though. It's about the Ethereals in BC and Locus-Walker's involvement in Legion. In fact, Cho even doubles down on K'aresh having been "destroyed" and that the Ethereals fled it. You can't even ask him about K'aresh in the additional dialogue options, just Dimensius, Nexus-King and Netherstorm.

Horrific Visions are about the unseeming/black blood.

-

But this is kinda to my point. Like why, rather than Lorewalking, is there not a questline about learning about K'aresh, or a questline about trying to attune to the Heart or Xal's energy to figure out where it is, where you then figure out it's on K'aresh ending with forces preparing? Hell, why not at least put into the Lorewalking that K'aresh was left a desolate fractured wasteland, etc. other stuff to suggest it's an actual place that we're gonna be at in three months rather than talk about it like it's gone?

The last time there was such a non sequitur kind of location and theme was like 2.4.

Sure, I just meant that all things considered, all the potential themes have equally insignificant amounts of build-up. It's strange but it doesn't rule K'aresh specifically out.

Although I do wonder if the black orbs in the West Studio art, the Dark Heart artifact, and the Undermine cinematic are all setting up something unexpected. Perhaps the cinematic doesn't show K'aresh as a physical location?

[Dvalin]

Yeah, it's objectively true that the build-up is not really as visible as in other more central narrative-driven expansions, with Legion's Argus being the prime example. Even the Emerald Dream had a more apparent build-up. So, I wonder if we'll get some surprises.

[Worldshaper]

Yeah, it's objectively true that the build-up is not really as visible as in other more central narrative-driven expansions, with Legion's Argus being the prime example. Even the Emerald Dream had a more apparent build-up. So, I wonder if we'll get some surprises.

I sadly do believe this has a lot to do with the restructuring of the expansion they did when they invented the Worldsoul Saga.

Basically, I think someone decided what patches had to be filler patches and what patches should recieve more love. And for obvious reasons, 11.1 and 11.2 were the winners.

[Dvalin]

I sadly do believe this has a lot to do with the restructuring of the expansion they did when they invented the Worldsoul Saga.

Basically, I think someone decided what patches had to be filler patches and what patches should recieve more love. And for obvious reasons, 11.1 and 11.2 were the winners.

I doubt this, as Metzen came back quite early in development. 10 months isn't that much.

We'll see how it turns out. Something slightly lefthanded/sudden can sometimes result in a good surprise. It could very well be intentional, as the story has been quite structured thus far.

[Cheezits]

Going to the Rootlands in 11.2 would be the narrative equivalent of going to Tel'Abim in 10.2 after they show Amir'drassil.

Less silly option would be like some Titan or Primalist pocket dimension, as those are forces from early questing. But as we saw with Undermine- it wasn't Rootlands with Goblins invading. So why would it be Rootlands with Ethereals invading? They showed an Ethereal in space, so that is the most likely option- space.

If 11.2 MUST have Black Blood they can have it (temporarily) dealt with in a delve or dungeon not in the new area, similar to Operation Floodgate.

- - - Updated - - -

Where the hell is all the K'aresh stuff? We have a small lore 11.1.7 thing about BC Ethereals, Locus-walker and Brokers. Who are we fighting? Xal still? Her and what allies since apparently the Ethereals rug-pulled her? Dimensius who has not even really been brought up in the storyline so far? The Ethereum that haven't really shown up? The Shadowguard who made a very brief appearance? When are our characters even going to properly find out that we need to go get ready and go there? Is 11.2 just gonna drop and then in the span of five quests we're gonna learn Xal went to another planet and hop on through a portal to get there? Are all the Khaz Algar friendly factions just going to instantly prepare and warp in with us?

The issue is that there is no overt plot buildup to anything happening in 11.1.7 whatsoever. We may as well have ended the expansion in Undermine with the tease at the end being Midnight and the Stromgarde thing and Childrens Week questline being a neat little epilogue.

It's probably because of the development pivot, or it has something to do with how they couldn't put "new zone" onto the roadmap for a second. I could see 11.2 being weirdly small and they will have a "but!" in there somewhere to make up for it.

[Dracullus]

Going to the Rootlands in 11.2 would be the narrative equivalent of going to Tel'Abim in 10.2 after they show Amir'drassil.

Less silly option would be like some Titan or Primalist pocket dimension, as those are forces from early questing. But as we saw with Undermine- it wasn't Rootlands with Goblins invading. So why would it be Rootlands with Ethereals invading? They showed an Ethereal in space, so that is the most likely option- space.

If 11.2 MUST have Black Blood they can have it (temporarily) dealt with in a delve or dungeon not in the new area, similar to Operation Floodgate.

Yes, you have one scene where we see Ethereal in (presumable) K'aresh. That's whole problem, it has no build up.

Amirdrassil was clearly end goal from the start. Whole expansion theme from first cinematic was RENEVAL. We planted Amirdrassil in first patch. Primalist were enemies from start. We watched Fyrakk get free and speedrun Deathwing. We had themes of Nature and themes of Fire that clashed in final raid. It wasn't as good as let's say Legion or MoP, but it wasn't out of blue. Just Iridikron path leading to TWW was way more interesting so Fyrakk 10.1->10.2 felt like side story.

Currently Worldcore is complete opposite of K'aresh - it has build up, it is in Khaz Algar area, it is natural conclusion to underground expansion, Orweyna is introduced in Undermine which make little sense with K'aresh - but datamining evidence suggest K'aresh or at least Ethereal patch.

And I get you really want K'aresh, but it's silly to weaker argument for other option by diminishing it just to Rootlands and Emerald Dream 2.0. Rootlands would be just one of bioms. Most important thing in zone is Worldcore - which should be biggest Titan infrastructure in Azeroth. Zone can have source of Black Blood, maybe even Xalatath real body. It can have more Beledar-like crystals. It is so much more than just Rootlands.

Most important - it is certain that we go both to K'aresh and Worldcore. Questions are: 1) if K'aresh is TWW finale or somewhere in Midnight and 2) if Worldcore is TWW finale or something for Last Titan.

[Mecheon]

Going to the Rootlands in 11.2 would be the narrative equivalent of going to Tel'Abim in 10.2 after they show Amir'drassil.

Just the same though, going to K'aresh in 11.2 would be the equivalent of ending Wrath at the Argent Tourney and never confronting Arthas

The one through-line of the expansion has been the world soul and the danger to it. K'aresh has nothing to do with that, it isn't a looming threat like Argus was

[Cheezits]

Just the same though, going to K'aresh in 11.2 would be the equivalent of ending Wrath at the Argent Tourney and never confronting Arthas

The one through-line of the expansion has been the world soul and the danger to it. K'aresh has nothing to do with that, it isn't a looming threat like Argus was

And the problem is that the world soul reveal had to get kicked back to TLT. So that probably explains the plot fuckery.

Going to the world soul, then going away for Midnight, then going to Northrend instead of just going back to the world soul to save it would have too many hiccups.

[Khaza-R]

I think the lack of story follow through is partially because no one (save maybe Xal'atath) knows where Azir went. I think the missing bridge between Undermine'd and K'aresh probably indicates we aren't going to K'aresh but rather K'aresh or at least the Ethereals invade in 11.2

The only way I can see them tying everything together with a neat bow is if the swirling mass at the center of K'aresh is actually the remains of the planet's worldsoul just fully consumed by black blood and somehow it being linked to the black blood and Unseeming on Azeroth. But even if that's the case it doesn't really answer why Azir stole the Darkheart and what they intend to do with it.

[Worldshaper]

*Insert thinking velociraptor meme* Is this K'aresh?





Anyway, I was just looking at the West Studio images again and for some reason they've seemingly removed one image. Namely, the one where it looks like blasts of Void energy destroys "planet"-like spheres below Khaz Algar.

I wonder why?

[Cheezits]

The croco-dragon is the key to all this...