The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Dracullus]

I honestly don't think we've seen the last of Orweyna or her people, even if she doesn't get much more exposure this expansion. All the mysteries surrounding our interactions with the Ethereals seem to be culminating in something in 11.2; we just don't know in what regard yet.

If 11.2 is K'aresh or something else outside Khaz Algar, Orweyna part in cgi promo/11.0.7/11.2 is complete mystery for me. She barely does anything and is extremely easy to cut from game, it's not like Metzen decided 11.2 theme month ago. And she isn't memorable enough to be plant for future expansion, in The Last Titan people would ask "...who??" and she would need reintroduction anyway.

[Sondrelk]

If 11.2 is K'aresh or something else outside Khaz Algar, Orweyna part in cgi promo/11.0.7/11.2 is complete mystery for me. She barely does anything and is extremely easy to cut from game, it's not like Metzen decided 11.2 theme month ago. And she isn't memorable enough to be plant for future expansion, in The Last Titan people would ask "...who??" and she would need reintroduction anyway.

Yeah. Even assuming that her storyline was removed, you would think that they would have made some kind of epilogue "I must return to my people far from here" style. Just hammer in that we should not expect to see her again this expansion.
They could easily have done this earlier than 11.1 if they knew 11.2 would be K'aresh. That zone would have been in development since 10.0.7 at the latest.

[Eldryth]

Remember, at this point in the previous patch cycle, we had absolutely no reason to go to Undermine either. We only found out why we'd be going there once 11.0.7 hit live servers, since that questline wasn't tested.

It'd be equally easy to explain K'aresh in either another hidden questline or just a few quests at the start of 11.2. Another vision from Azeroth telling us to go there, followed by Locus Walker taking us there, would be enough. Or even just Locus Walker telling us to go see firsthand what could happen to our world if we lose, or to go and look into Xal'atath's origins there (since Locus Walker already knew her before Dragonflight somehow).

And we certainly have far more hints towards K'aresh specifically- not just Ethereals in general- than Undermine had at this point. Locus Walker talking about its fall back in the Harbinger questline that set up TWW, a teaser blatantly showing K'aresh itself at the end of Undermined, and now Locus Walker and Ve'nari forming their alliance (when Brokers should be irrelevant if we're not doing something with their shared homeworld).



As for Orweyna, I think she herself will still stick around and get a lot of screen time throughout the Saga, but she'll be the only Haranir we see for a long while, and her leaving her people will be a long character arc resolved towards the end of the Saga.

[Dvalin]

Remember, at this point in the previous patch cycle, we had absolutely no reason to go to Undermine either. We only found out why we'd be going there once 11.0.7 hit live servers, since that questline wasn't tested.

It'd be equally easy to explain K'aresh in either another hidden questline or just a few quests at the start of 11.2. Another vision from Azeroth telling us to go there, followed by Locus Walker taking us there, would be enough. Or even just Locus Walker telling us to go see firsthand what could happen to our world if we lose, or to go and look into Xal'atath's origins there (since Locus Walker already knew her before Dragonflight somehow).

And we certainly have far more hints towards K'aresh specifically- not just Ethereals in general- than Undermine had at this point. Locus Walker talking about its fall back in the Harbinger questline that set up TWW, a teaser blatantly showing K'aresh itself at the end of Undermined, and now Locus Walker and Ve'nari forming their alliance (when Brokers should be irrelevant if we're not doing something with their shared homeworld).



As for Orweyna, I think she herself will still stick around and get a lot of screen time throughout the Saga, but she'll be the only Haranir we see for a long while, and her leaving her people will be a long character arc resolved towards the end of the Saga.

Valid point. In the end, the pacing of the quests/narrative and the way it's shown to us, the players, is what's key. Whether it's done inside of one patch or across a few (small ones).

We already got quite a lot of pieces of the (Ethereal) puzzle.

[Cheezits]

Noticed this in the new T&E interview:

In public neighborhoods, you'll be able to get any plot you want, but private neighborhoods you'll likely need to work that out with your friends.


The vibe I'm getting is that they will let you pick whatever plot you want in an empty hood, then phase you into a neighborhood where your choice works. So apparently you really can set up wherever you want without competition?

[Mecheon]

You act like Dimensius built a base there...

We know three things about

1: It was destroyed
2: Ethereals don't live there any more because of point 1
3: The last we heard of Dimensius, he was there

Dimensuis hanging out there less as 'stronghold' and more 'giant thing feasting upon the husk of a dead world' is one hell of an evocative image and would give us a reason to go there in Midnight, unlike the complete lack of reason we have at the moment

Remember, at this point in the previous patch cycle, we had absolutely no reason to go to Undermine either. We only found out why we'd be going there once 11.0.7 hit live servers, since that questline wasn't tested.

It'd be equally easy to explain K'aresh in either another hidden questline or just a few quests at the start of 11.2. Another vision from Azeroth telling us to go there, followed by Locus Walker taking us there, would be enough. Or even just Locus Walker telling us to go see firsthand what could happen to our world if we lose, or to go and look into Xal'atath's origins there (since Locus Walker already knew her before Dragonflight somehow).

And we certainly have far more hints towards K'aresh specifically- not just Ethereals in general- than Undermine had at this point. Locus Walker talking about its fall back in the Harbinger questline that set up TWW, a teaser blatantly showing K'aresh itself at the end of Undermined, and now Locus Walker and Ve'nari forming their alliance (when Brokers should be irrelevant if we're not doing something with their shared homeworld).

Undermine had build up, though. There were the goblins all throughout Ringing Depths who brought it up, Gazzlowe was with us in Azj Kahet and, well, the Undermine is underground

Our thus far mentions of K'aresh mention about how it fell, not about how we're about to go over and visit it, whereas the mystery of the haranir is a lot more immediate and doesn't require inter-galactic portals

[Hitei]

Noticed this in the new T&E interview:

In public neighborhoods, you'll be able to get any plot you want, but private neighborhoods you'll likely need to work that out with your friends.


The vibe I'm getting is that they will let you pick whatever plot you want in an empty hood, then phase you into a neighborhood where your choice works. So apparently you really can set up wherever you want without competition?

There was also implied to be other factors that will allow you to find "similar neighbors". i.e. people who want an immersive neighborhood vs wacky building random stuff.

Undermine had build up, though. There were the goblins all throughout Ringing Depths who brought it up, Gazzlowe was with us in Azj Kahet and, well, the Undermine is underground

Our thus far mentions of K'aresh mention about how it fell, not about how we're about to go over and visit it, whereas the mystery of the haranir is a lot more immediate and doesn't require inter-galactic portals

We also got a short story with Gaz trying to convince other goblins to basically Unionize and improve working conditions for both profit and to take care of their own, disparaging the way Gallywix ran things.

[Illuminance]

Noticed this in the new T&E interview:

In public neighborhoods, you'll be able to get any plot you want, but private neighborhoods you'll likely need to work that out with your friends.


The vibe I'm getting is that they will let you pick whatever plot you want in an empty hood, then phase you into a neighborhood where your choice works. So apparently you really can set up wherever you want without competition?

This would be a nice solution to the problem of players competing for plots. Zepla posted a recap that also added that Blizzard has been polling their employees about which plot(s) they prefer, and they go back to spruce up the plots that were least desired in some way, which might also help.

[Nibelheimy]

I only hope they integrate some sort of party up system when initially selecting your plots. It'd be nice as someone in a smaller guild to have all my friends nearby, and not have to have a 55 person barren landscape in-between 5-10 peoples houses if to be with friends, you're forced to go private.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

We also got a short story with Gaz trying to convince other goblins to basically Unionize and improve working conditions for both profit and to take care of their own, disparaging the way Gallywix ran things.

Unionized goblins, Calianized Forsaken, tolerant Stromgarde, clanless primitive Mag'har. Who's next up to get the blanding treatment?

[Nymrohd]

Btw anyone else farming old world mats? The fact that we are getting dyes made from alchemy and they are single use makes me think that prices will go crazy.

[shooketh]

Unionized goblins, Calianized Forsaken, tolerant Stromgarde, clanless primitive Mag'har. Who's next up to get the blanding treatment?

Sadly, current writers are beholden to a small echo chamber on bluesky/twitter so anytime they try to deviate from this boring formula or touch topics that may be seen as controversial, said echo chamber has a meltdown, because some people have a really, really hard time separating fiction from reality.

Just the other day I was reading how one of them thought that the 11.1.7 questline is really, really good, when in fact it's as boring and stale as a piece of wet paper. And these are the people that Blizzard listens to, while the rest, the 99%, think that TWW is as boring as Dragonflight.

- - - Updated - - -

Btw anyone else farming old world mats? The fact that we are getting dyes made from alchemy and they are single use makes me think that prices will go crazy.

Yeah, it's a good idea to start leveling up older professions.

[Nymrohd]

I also think I might want a second set of alts for crafting professions.
Honestly I hope they do a second pass at crafting. I think profession talent trees should have had universal parts and then expansion specific parts.

[Ersula]

Sadly, current writers are beholden to a small echo chamber on bluesky/twitter so anytime they try to deviate from this boring formula or touch topics that may be seen as controversial, said echo chamber has a meltdown, because some people have a really, really hard time separating fiction from reality.

I choose to think of it as the writing involving: They're turning flat characters into round characters by giving them nuance....but now if you have a round character you have to make them interesting by giving them interesting things to do; which I hope one day WoW will figure out how to do.

[Enteroctopus Magnificus]

I hope Azshara doesn't die in Midnight, WoW's story team has a tendency to kill off the coolest characters and only keep the bland ones. Will she “marry” Dimensius?

I'm also quite worried about what they'll do with Sylvanas, since she changed after getting her soul fragment back... I hope her personality won't be too “smoothed” to make her morally good.

I can't wait to see daddy-llidan again in TLT... it's going to be epic. And hot.

If worldsouls can be claimed by the various cosmic forces to create a new member of the pantheon associated with them (order > titans), then K'aresh has become or will become a Void Lord or according to ancient tradition, a black titan. If we defeat or purify him, how would Sargeras react? According to him, the only way to defeat them was to destroy them before they were born. If he saw that there were other ways, he might perhaps side with us. But against whom and what? The Titans' conspiracy?...

[Nymrohd]

I hope Azshara doesn't die in Midnight, WoW's story team has a tendency to kill off the coolest characters and only keep the bland ones. Will she “marry” Dimensius?

I'm also quite worried about what they'll do with Sylvanas, since she changed after getting her soul fragment back... I hope her personality won't be too “smoothed” to make her morally good.

I can't wait to see daddy-llidan again in TLT... it's going to be epic. And hot.

If worldsouls can be claimed by the various cosmic forces to create a new member of the pantheon associated with them (order > titans), then K'aresh has become or will become a Void Lord or according to ancient tradition, a black titan. If we defeat or purify him, how would Sargeras react? According to him, the only way to defeat them was to destroy them before they were born. If he saw that there were other ways, he might perhaps side with us. But against whom and what? The Titans' conspiracy?...

I personally hope Azshara, Sargeras and Illidan all survive this as well as Locus Walker who I fully expect to turn against us at some point. Also I don't think Azshara cares for playing second fiddle to anyone. She did for Sargeras because she didn't even know the scale of the cosmos back then. For N'zoth it was forced upon her. But I think now she wants to rule the universe herself.

[Cheezits]

Azshara isn't going to die in Midnight as she still needs to fight the Nelves and try to take back Kalimdor, which probably won't happen in Midnight unless its a secret "entire world revamp" expac.

[shooketh]

They're turning flat characters into round characters by giving them nuance...

They're doing the complete opposite, though. Every character which had personality, unique traits, own motives and ways of achieving things, own grievances and prejudices, is being turned into the peaceful, tolerant, morally good character that will put all their grievances/prejudices aside and will do their best not to offend anyone. Or they're dead.

Also, there are multiple instances of writers changing things because of complaints from twitter/bluesky. We all know the usual suspects that like to conflate reality with this fictional world all the time.

[Cheezits]

The "softening" is due to the backlash of BFA Horde players being mad about quite literally being forced to follow evil/morally black characters like Nathanos. That's why all the playable race leaders have chilled out.

Goblins didn't get a council- they always operated like that. Gallywix taking them all over was the difference from the norm. Venture Co also didn't soften- whatsherface is just one friendly agent in Undermine. Steamwheedle and Blackwater were always friendly.

You can be annoyed by the councils but Undermine ain't it.

[shooketh]

The "softening" is due to the backlash of BFA Horde players being mad about quite literally being forced to follow evil/morally black characters like Nathanos. That's why all the playable race leaders have chilled out.

Goblins didn't get a council- they always operated like that. Gallywix taking them all over was the difference from the norm. Venture Co also didn't soften- whatsherface is just one friendly agent in Undermine. Steamwheedle and Blackwater were always friendly.

You can be annoyed by the councils but Undermine ain't it.

In a vacuum, you're right. But it's the same tropes being used over and over again, so even when it makes sense, it ends up being offputting. There is an unhealthy obsession at Blizzard with every faction having female leadership or a council.

Warcraft is a brutal world. How do you expect me to take anything seriously when I'm being sent over and over again to slaughter hundreds, thousands, only to return and be lectured about tolerance and acceptance by these soft ass NPCs? It's just silly and makes no sense.

Warcraft started with a certain identity and brutal themes, embrace them. Yes, there are cases of genocide. Yes, there is racism. Yes, there is hatred. Don't shy away from them. Don't tell me how bad they are, I already know that. Stop preaching. Instead, tell compelling stories and flesh out the world and characters that makes us care again.

If 11.2 isn't up to par, I will probably not even buy Midnight. I am THAT disillusioned. Then I see comments like well it's an MMO, or it's WoW, story has pretty much always been bad. No. I refuse to accept that. We were sold Worldsoul as some grand attempt at great storytelling that touches core Warcraft themes.
And so far, for me at least, almost an entire year later, it all feels like a giant marketing stunt.