The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Worldshaper]

Isn't he like, super-turbo-perma dead after having his phylactery and Shadowlands-dead self killed? The thing in the TWW questline was a mirror image left behind on a necklace that is now completely inert.

Unless we're supposed to believe "a drained mirror image of a guy conjured before the part where he actually became super powerful" is somehow going to be a major threat, I think Kel'thuzad is pretty donezo.

I think the point would be the fact that they included him at all in TWW. Kel'thuzad didn't have to be there, yet they decided to include him. Wasn't there even a little pocket dimension of his invention? What's to say they don't just decide that he's able to return now, because reasons.

[Cheezits]

Unless we're supposed to believe "a drained mirror image of a guy conjured before the part where he actually became super powerful" is somehow going to be a major threat, I think Kel'thuzad is pretty donezo.

Let me tell you about Gul'dan 2.0...

Shadowlands Kel being widely panned + this development makes it very likely the copy will be used in some kind of way to "redo" Kel'thuzad, especially as it seems to be a pre-Jailer Kel. Otherwise, why put him in a Kirin Tor story over ANYONE else?

[milkmustache]

I'll be honest, if 11.2 is Lordaeron it would be a genius way to "clean up" the area around Quel'thalas prior to an expansion there.

What could the raid be though? If this were to hypothetically happen, I'd have to assume they'd include Beledar in this, which could possibly be the ending raid.

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I think the point would be the fact that they included him at all in TWW. Kel'thuzad didn't have to be there, yet they decided to include him. Wasn't there even a little pocket dimension of his invention? What's to say they don't just decide that he's able to return now, because reasons.

Agreed here. Kel'thuzad's inclusion was an extremely deliberate choice. He'll be involved in the Scourge storylines in Midnight and TLT for sure.

[Cheezits]

What could the raid be though? If this were to hypothetically happen, I'd have to assume they'd include Beledar in this, which could possibly be the ending raid.

If it's Lordaeron then the raid definitely is something disconnected and instanced, be it where the wormhole is or in the Dark Heart itself, somewhere where it makes sense to beat up Xal.

I think K'aresh is still more likely as we seem to be moving away from Khaz Algar and its theming. Everyone's leaving, the Coreway takes years to repair and Orweyna dipped without inviting anyone else to follow her.

[milkmustache]

If it's Lordaeron then the raid definitely is something disconnected and instanced, be it where the wormhole is or in the Dark Heart itself, somewhere where it makes sense to beat up Xal.

I think K'aresh is still more likely as we seem to be moving away from Khaz Algar and its theming. Everyone's leaving, the Coreway takes years to repair and Orweyna dipped without inviting anyone else to follow her.

I didn't notice how many times she mentioned the term "old world" in this story. Considering the 11.1.7 questline, what a fucking turn that would be to have Arathi Highlands or EK host the final patch. I think it's far more unlikely than Rootlands, but what a fun consideration. I think it's slightly too disconnected, unless it's a full Arathi patch that includes Beledar.

Or a surprise landing by the army of the Arathi Empire in EK?

[Cheezits]

I didn't notice how many times she mentioned the term "old world" in this story. Considering the 11.1.7 questline, what a fucking turn that would be to have Arathi Highlands or EK host the final patch. I think it's far more unlikely than Rootlands, but what a fun consideration. I think it's slightly too disconnected, unless it's a full Arathi patch that includes Beledar.

Honestly I think it may be as simple as "they don't think this theme can sustain a full expansion", as not even Undermine is really part of Khaz Algar and its story (though it is tied in fairly well). I can see them giving up on the initial concept where all three patches were underground.

Xal seems to be the thread between the patches, no more no less.

[milkmustache]

Honestly I think it may be as simple as "they don't think this theme can sustain a full expansion", as not even Undermine is really part of Khaz Algar and its story (though it is tied in fairly well). I can see them giving up on the initial concept where all three patches were underground.

Xal seems to be the thread between the patches, no more no less.

Sure, I agree there, but if we look at 8.3 as the example we're not really cutting it. Especially if 8.3 was a relatively meh patch, to blatantly repeat it? Old World zone, nonrevamped, and assumingly a black blood plot? That's Visions of N'Zoth all over again. It'd be a massive fall flat on their face. I think there needs to be a huge hook to the patch. Sorry if you're not implying the 8.3 similarities and I read into it wrong.

My heart still wants K'aresh as a cautionary tale of demise from the Void with a raid jumping between infighting Ethereals and Xal'atath through a floating ruins of Dalaran raid alongside the remaining Sons of Lothar. Atiesh legendary as well.

[Cheezits]

Sure, I agree there, but if we look at 8.3 as the example we're not really cutting it. Especially if 8.3 was a relatively meh patch, to blatantly repeat it? Old World zone, nonrevamped, and assumingly a black blood plot? That's Visions of N'Zoth all over again. It'd be a massive fall flat on their face. I think there needs to be a huge hook to the patch. Sorry if you're not implying the 8.3 similarities and I read into it wrong.

Oh yeah no I think 11.2 will feature a new area even if it's a revamped old world portion. The only connection to 8.3 is that it shows Blizz -will- pause a plot thread if they think it's beneficial to the game. This being the black blood.

I think this is much different than Sylvanas ditching as Sylvanas was the big focus of BFA compared to N'zoth- whereas I don't think there's as much of a connection with fans to the black blood.

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It would be fun and wild if 11.2 is an invaded Silvermoon City that we clear out in time for 12.0.

[Worldshaper]

Why was the Elun'ahir book seemingly introduced after Metzen's return in Dragonflight. Wouldn't they at that point have known that they were changing TWW into the Worldsoul Saga? Does this suggest Elun'ahir is still in the plans sometime soon, or does it mean that Khaz Algar was initially just going to involve random tree roots before they decided to change it to being an actual world tree, to increase tensions for TLT's Titan showdown? So in essence, "Rootlands" got scrapped so they could instead expand that concept heading into TLT?

[Limayria]

Why was the Elun'ahir book seemingly introduced after Metzen's return in Dragonflight. Wouldn't they at that point have known that they were changing TWW into the Worldsoul Saga? Does this suggest Elun'ahir is still in the plans sometime soon, or does it mean that Khaz Algar was initially just going to involve random tree roots before they decided to change it to being an actual world tree, to increase tensions for TLT's Titan showdown? So in essence, "Rootlands" got scrapped so they could instead expand that concept heading into TLT?

Probably just wanted to start seeding things more than one or two patches in advance so that it feels more organically part of the world

[Cheezits]

Why was the Elun'ahir book seemingly introduced after Metzen's return in Dragonflight. Wouldn't they at that point have known that they were changing TWW into the Worldsoul Saga? Does this suggest Elun'ahir is still in the plans sometime soon, or does it mean that Khaz Algar was initially just going to involve random tree roots before they decided to change it to being an actual world tree, to increase tensions for TLT's Titan showdown? So in essence, "Rootlands" got scrapped so they could instead expand that concept heading into TLT?

It was probably going to be visited in TWW (see: Orweyna in the intro) and we went to the worldcore early, but that idea got pushed back versus being fully scrapped.

[milkmustache]

Why was the Elun'ahir book seemingly introduced after Metzen's return in Dragonflight. Wouldn't they at that point have known that they were changing TWW into the Worldsoul Saga? Does this suggest Elun'ahir is still in the plans sometime soon, or does it mean that Khaz Algar was initially just going to involve random tree roots before they decided to change it to being an actual world tree, to increase tensions for TLT's Titan showdown? So in essence, "Rootlands" got scrapped so they could instead expand that concept heading into TLT?

I don't think it's completely scrapped, nor do I think Metzen's return would have had a say on it or not. I think he would've looked at it as good breadcrumbing and decided to leave it. The whole story of Elun'ahir is still great and could be used later down the line, the question that Metzen brought up with his return was "Can we do all this in a single expansion?". He likely saw Elun'ahir as something better to address down the line when we are possibly at odds with the Titans.

It's been suggested it could return in TLT, and I think that's pretty likely. It could even be connected to Harrowsdeep, Iridikron's lair. We really don't know, but the inclusion of the Haranir in TWW paints some importance, I think it's just a matter of finding out whether or not their story had time to be told right now.

[Cheezits]

It's been suggested it could return in TLT, and I think that's pretty likely. It could even be connected to Harrowsdeep, Iridikron's lair. We really don't know, but the inclusion of the Haranir in TWW paints some importance, I think it's just a matter of finding out whether or not their story had time to be told right now.

Oh, wow, seeing them next to each other like this makes me wonder if that's intentional prefixing by Blizz.

Iridikron being close to the Worldcore and perhaps Rootlands would explain why he knows what the Titans are up to.

[Houle]

Agreed here. Kel'thuzad's inclusion was an extremely deliberate choice. He'll be involved in the Scourge storylines in Midnight and TLT for sure.

Ya know, even tho reusing characters like this is usually terrible storytelling, i wouldnt be against bringing Kel'thuzad and Ner'zhul back.
SL shat so badly all over both of them, any excuse to bring them back would be better than what they got there. These 2 character deserved better, given their legacy and impact on the franchise. And it wouldnt even take much for them to make a comeback, given that they didnt even bother explaining at all how either of them got there in SL the first place.

->Yada yada, as an extra precaution, Kel'thuzad created that imprint of himself in the necklace so that he would swap places with it should his phylactery ever be destroyed.

->Yada yada, bc Ner'zhul was still bound to the pieces of the helmet (which wasnt fully destroyed) and the rest of the original LK armor, he wasnt really defeated for good when the players fought him, and then when the pieces of the helmet were fully reforged, he was sucked back to Azeroth into the rest of the original LK armor which Arthas had hidden away somewhere.

[milkmustache]

Oh, wow, seeing them next to each other like this makes me wonder if that's intentional prefixing by Blizz.

Iridikron being close to the Worldcore and perhaps Rootlands would explain why he knows what the Titans are up to.

I really, really think that Iridikron will get a partial Illidan treatment in TLT. He's perfectly set up for it. This idea could propel it even further, Harrowsdeep being a vast tunnel system, he would have the ability to interact with the Haranir at some point. I don't necessarily think Harrowsdeep and Haranir are tied together by name, but it's entirely possible.

I think if we were to see Iridikron explain how he was able to watch what the Titans were doing to the Worldcore from the tunnels of Harrowsdeep, not have the power to stop it, and in turn have to watch his kin be used for their experiments, we'd start to sympathize with him a bit more. He has all the makings for a great, great character. Set him up to kill a Titan the second the land on Azeroth, we fight him for the first raid tier until we realize he's right and the Titans may have misguided us.

Ya know, even tho reusing characters like this is usually terrible storytelling, i wouldnt be against bringing Kel'thuzad and Ner'zhul back.
SL shat so badly all over both of them, any excuse to bring them back would be better than what they got there. These 2 character deserved better, given their legacy and impact on the franchise. And it wouldnt even take much for them to make a comeback, given that they didnt even bother explaining at all how either of them got there in SL the first place.

->Yada yada, as an extra precaution, Kel'thuzad created that imprint of himself in the necklace so that he would swap places with it should his phylactery ever be destroyed.

->Yada yada, bc Ner'zhul was still bound to the pieces of the helmet (which wasnt fully destroyed) and the rest of the original LK armor, he wasnt really defeated for good when the players fought him, and then when the pieces of the helmet were fully reforged, he was sucked back to Azeroth into the rest of the original LK armor which Arthas had hidden away somewhere.

As resident half-of-Shadowlands hater, I'm all for bringing back any of the characters that had some unceremonious cameos. Both of your ideas are great.

There's also a nonzero chance we don't see some form of Arthas as well, I refuse to believe that they will stick with the Arthas soul fart ending from Shadowlands. Kael'thas is bound to be brought up in Midnight. Give me some form of Garrosh back.

But that being said, Kel'thuzad is most certainly going to be returning directly tied to the Scourge plots. I like this idea that he is this necromatic roach that cannot be killed, but keeps crawling his way back from various abysses to vye for power, constantly making routes to escape permanent death or a permanent form.

[Scipio1319]

No 11.2 news this week methinks. With the story post today it doesn't make sense. But maybe housing update? The cope is strong right now.

[Worldshaper]

No 11.2 news this week methinks. With the story post today it doesn't make sense. But maybe housing update? The cope is strong right now.

It does seem unlikely to reveal it the week before 11.1.7. Blizzard probably wants peoples' attention on that right now.

[Cheezits]

No 11.2 news this week methinks. With the story post today it doesn't make sense. But maybe housing update? The cope is strong right now.

Yep they are going to continue to market 11.1.7 this week so nothing until next week unless they tease a direct on Thursday.

[Scipio1319]

It does seem unlikely to reveal it the week before 11.1.7. Blizzard probably wants peoples' attention on that right now.

Agreed. It's such a small patch though. Unless the Arathi Story really has something that spoils 11.2. But based off PTR there isn't much.

[Cheezits]

Agreed. It's such a small patch though. Unless the Arathi Story really has something that spoils 11.2. But based off PTR there isn't much.

It's filler you can complete in a week, but they know most people have tapped out of a major patch by now. I think more people will be subbed for Gallagio 20.