The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Nibelheimy]

Off topic but after many expansions of being number 1 most important character in the game, Nathanos treating me like a dirty peasant was quite refreshing and almost endearing.

I don't get the hate.

[KyleEverett]

So glad the 7 week PTR cycle beat out the 8 week cadence predictors. Storymode out before Gamescom should be awesome.

Regarding Kael'thas, I'm still REALLY hoping Denathrius is our mid tier boss and Kael'thas comes with the Ventyhr to help us.

[Darkarath]

It seems impossible that Kael'thas wouldn't be relevant in Midnight after we saved him, but who would take his place in the Shadowlands, like Malfurion did for Ysera in DF?

Also, Death or something related to it is what the Void fears the most, so we could be getting quite a bit of Shadowlands lore and presence in Midnight.

Sylvanas, Nathanos, Kael'thas, Ve'nari, Nathrezim... And if the Plague comes back... Uther? Kel'thuzad? I certainly hope that these two stay dead for good. They have been used way too much.

[Cheezits]

It would be interesting if the thing that the Void fears so much about Death is something from the original realm before it became Ordered. Like something that was imprisoned or put away- possibly something that could actually kill all of reality, Zovaal style.

[Houle]

Sylvanas, Nathanos, Kael'thas, Ve'nari, Nathrezim... And if the Plague comes back... Uther? Kel'thuzad? I certainly hope that these two stay dead for good. They have been used way too much.

Like Sylvanas or the Nathrezim havent been used twice as much as either of those.

[Nymrohd]

It seems impossible that Kael'thas wouldn't be relevant in Midnight after we saved him, but who would take his place in the Shadowlands, like Malfurion did for Ysera in DF?

Also, Death or something related to it is what the Void fears the most, so we could be getting quite a bit of Shadowlands lore and presence in Midnight.

Sylvanas, Nathanos, Kael'thas, Ve'nari, Nathrezim... And if the Plague comes back... Uther? Kel'thuzad? I certainly hope that these two stay dead for good. They have been used way too much.

Ysera's case was different though. The Winter Queen had to sacrifice some of her own essence to save Ysera. Kael was just another soul in Revendreth.

[Darkarath]

Like Sylvanas or the Nathrezim havent been used twice as much as either of those.

Agreed.

I would leave Sylvanas in the Shadowlands for many, many years. But we know Blizzard. Sadly, she is coming back for Midnight.

Kind of the same for the Nathrezim. Supposedly they have infiltrated every cosmic force, and Midnight is going to be the clash between Void and Light, so probably other cosmic powers would be involved too. Seems unlikely that the Nathrezim wouldn't be there.

Kel'thuzad and Uther? Meh. Old characters with no place in current WoW. Especially Kel'thuzad. He has died so many times. It's impossible to take him seriously as a villain. In SoD he is just comical.

It would be interesting if the thing that the Void fears so much about Death is something from the original realm before it became Ordered. Like something that was imprisoned or put away- possibly something that could actually kill all of reality, Zovaal style.

This is a great mystery. What could it be?

Domination magic? The Void could fear being controlled.

The Devourers? The Void consumes but the Devourers consume everything, maybe even the Void. Is there any Xal'athat comment about them in 11.2?

Ysera's case was different though. The Winter Queen had to sacrifice some of her own essence to save Ysera. Kael was just another soul in Revendreth.

Yet Ysera is the only soul that came back from the Shadowlands to Azeroth physically, if I recall correctly. So it's the only example that we have for now.

[Nymrohd]

Agreed.

I would leave Sylvanas in the Shadowlands for many, many years. But we know Blizzard. Sadly, she is coming back for Midnight.

Kind of the same for the Nathrezim. Supposedly they have infiltrated every cosmic force, and Midnight is going to be the clash between Void and Light, so probably other cosmic powers would be involved too. Seems unlikely that the Nathrezim wouldn't be there.

Kel'thuzad and Uther? Meh. Old characters with no place in current WoW. Especially Kel'thuzad. He has died so many times. It's impossible to take him seriously as a villain. In SoD he is just comical.



This is a great mystery. What could It be?

Domination magic? The Void could fear being controlled.

The Devourers? The Void consumes but the Devourers consume everything, maybe even the Void.



Yet Ysera is the only soul that came back from the Shadowlands to Azeroth physically, if I recall correctly. So it's the only example that we have for now.

In D&D Undead are the sure counter to aberrations; if you see Mind Flayers around, start summoning zombies. This works weird with the Flesh/Cosmic divide with the Warcraft Void but it makes sense for Old Gods and their minions, many of which depend a lot on their mind affecting abilities and their ability to corrupt flesh to be scared of an army of undead whose flesh is dead so it cannot evolve/devolve and they have no minds to control. Plus you can raise them again once they are down. It's how the Lich King planned to beat the void after all.

Also pretty sure we had plenty of creatures from the Shadowlands visit Azeroth. The Kyrian do it all the time, the Maldraxxi visit Legion worlds and I am pretty sure we've seen Venthyr and Fae also cross the veil.

[Darkarath]

In D&D Undead are the sure counter to aberrations; if you see Mind Flayers around, start summoning zombies. This works weird with the Flesh/Cosmic divide with the Warcraft Void but it makes sense for Old Gods and their minions, many of which depend a lot on their mind affecting abilities and their ability to corrupt flesh to be scared of an army of undead whose flesh is dead so it cannot evolve/devolve and they have no minds to control. Plus you can raise them again once they are down. It's how the Lich King planned to beat the void after all.

Also pretty sure we had plenty of creatures from the Shadowlands visit Azeroth. The Kyrian do it all the time, the Maldraxxi visit Legion worlds and I am pretty sure we've seen Venthyr and Fae also cross the veil.

Interesting possibility. It certainly makes sense. But Ve'nari being involved makes me believe that what the Void fears is something else, more specific.

Good news are that we would most likely learn what this fear is in Midnight, so not so far away now.

[Nymrohd]

Interesting possibility. It certainly makes sense. But Ve'nari being involved makes me believe that what the Void fears is something else, more specific.

Good news are that we would most likely learn what this fear is in Midnight, so not so far away now.

To be fair, the Void consumes but so does the Maw. The Maw grinds down souls into dust. And Ve'nari was very much focused on collecting said dust.

The Maw existed before Zovaal. What was there before the Jailer? We know Marasmius existed before the Winter Queen. The order of the Shadowlands is after all artificial and imposed by the First ones with the plane itself existing before them. Helya probably knows. . .

[Darkarath]

To be fair, the Void consumes but so does the Maw. The Maw grinds down souls into dust. And Ve'nari was very much focused on collecting said dust.

The Maw existed before Zovaal. What was there before the Jailer?

Yes, but souls are not sent to the Maw anymore. So if the soul dust is the answer I guess that the Void is happy with our intervention because no more of that is being made.

[Nymrohd]

Yes, but souls are not sent to the Maw anymore. So if the soul dust is the answer I guess that the Void is happy with our intervention because no more of that is being made.

The other good suggestion is Domination magic.

[Darkarath]

The other good suggestion is Domination magic.

This is what makes sense at the moment.

Domination magic could even control the Automa, and I'm not completely sure right now but were there Dominated Devourers in 9.2?

[Cheezits]

This is what makes sense at the moment.

Domination magic could even control the Automa, and I'm not completely sure right now but were there Dominated Devourers in 9.2?

Constellars too. Though, after having recently replayed it during the mount buff, Algalon kind of sounds like he isn't actually dominated despite the outfit.

[Joshuaj]

It would be interesting if the thing that the Void fears so much about Death is something from the original realm before it became Ordered. Like something that was imprisoned or put away- possibly something that could actually kill all of reality, Zovaal style.

Literally why are we still saying this? The Progenitors made the influences for a specific purpose in mind. Death was always ordered.

[Darkarath]

Constellars too. Though, after having recently replayed it during the mount buff, Algalon kind of sounds like he isn't actually dominated despite the outfit.

Yeah. Good point. I forgot about Rygelon.

IMO he is clearly dominated. So Domination magic probably works against all cosmic forces, maybe even on Devourers? The thing is that I believe that the Light could work very similarly...

Midnight has too many plots open. I'm scared about what could happen there lore-wise. While TWW has been an improvement, the narrative and story team are the worst part of current WoW by far. How they are going to handle all the Elven races, the SL influences, the unknown Void, the inevitable presence of the Arathi and the Draenei, and so on?

[Eldryth]

Constellars too. Though, after having recently replayed it during the mount buff, Algalon kind of sounds like he isn't actually dominated despite the outfit.

I think you mean Rylegon, but I agree- his dialogue was weird for being Dominated. He talked about bringing Order through Death, while others tend to be controlled completely (see Anduin) rather than having their mindset warped to think this'd accomplish their original goals.

[Hitei]

Literally why are we still saying this? The Progenitors made the influences for a specific purpose in mind. Death was always ordered.

I'd honestly say the bigger question is why are people still treating the Void-Death thing as some sort of grand conspiracy with a hyper specific answer to be found? The whole origin of this "Void hates Death so much!" idea is the Windrunner comic, and that comic also explained exactly what the Void's problem with Death was: it ending possibilities.

[Darkarath]

I'd honestly say the bigger question is why are people still treating the Void-Death thing as some sort of grand conspiracy with a hyper specific answer to be found? The whole origin of this "Void hates Death so much!" idea is the Windrunner comic, and that comic also explained exactly what the Void's problem with Death was: it ending possibilities.

Doubt that is that.

The Jailer was going to remade reality, so it would not be the end of all things if Death wins. Moreover, Death is still a cosmic force, and it doesn't seem interested on ending all possibilities.

Probably all Cosmic Forces would want to remade a reality akin to their vision. At the very least, Death, Arcane, Fel and Light.

Actually, the Cosmic Force that would end all possibilities would probably be the Void, because it only consumes.

[Joshuaj]

I think you mean Rylegon, but I agree- his dialogue was weird for being Dominated. He talked about bringing Order through Death, while others tend to be controlled completely (see Anduin) rather than having their mindset warped to think this'd accomplish their original goals.

Just means the Jailer wants to bring about a new order to the cosmos using Death.

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Doubt that is that.

The Jailer was going to remade reality, so it would not be the end of all things if Death wins. Moreover, Death is still a cosmic force, and it doesn't seem interested on ending all possibilities.

Probably all Cosmic Forces would want to remade a reality akin to their vision. At the very least, Death, Arcane, Fel and Light.

Actually, the Cosmic Force that would end all possibilities would probably be the Void, because it only consumes.

All possibilities basically end if the Jailer wins, as his vision = 1 possibility being absolute.