The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Timester]

The mural is super cool. A lot you could speculate on there with the imagery alone and choice of color.

The novel says cleary the color of the Void, it's purple. Yes, we knew for years, but it's great to have stated directly.

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While the expac got unravelled, I have a feeling that Metzen was not impressed by the Rootlands, Worldcore and Arathi/Avaloren stories in TWW, hence they got delayed or written out. Two fan service zones were added in the patches instead even if it screwed up the story... whatever it takes to get to the next expansion.

also I really want world revamp stuff over Another Island/Avaloren so I'm okay with it

The goblin and the k'areshi novels seems like stuff that Metzen came up with and asked for people to write up about it. It's very Metzen MO.

[Limayria]

So I checked the K'aresh zones and Ma’nussa, one of the two named areas of K'aresh and Locus-Walker's home, is not on the map. Maybe it's going to be a patch zone?

Interestingly enough, Ky'veza was the leader of Ma'nussa. There is also a diferently titled Ky'veza NPC without a model hooked up.

https://www.wowhead.com/ptr-2/npc=248134/kyveza

Ky'veza is gonna be the teacher for the void demon hunters I bet, with ethreals/kareshi/whatever they call them also getting dh as a class

also ive been thinking about it more, DH is a really solid fit for midnight, like they are "blind" and can see in the dark so they have less to fear from the darkness (ive also been thinking that DH shouldnt be penalized for the dark mechanics in delves, and like priest/paladins should be able to radiate light to dispel it with out candles but thats unrelated)

I mean it would be even cooler if all the lore and story developments didn't happen in some fucking book but inside the game, but I gave up on that a few expansions ago. That doesn't seem to be the Blizzard way.

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Well, the story really isn't good enough in TWW that's for fucking sure. Lemony Snicket's A Series of Unrelated Accidents.

Tbf I think warcraft as a franchise would benifit a massive amount from focusing on being a multimedia franchise instead of trying to be a game with tie in novels. It felt like they wanted this to be the case before with how many books/manga/comics/whatever we used to get, but a more modern take on the idea would be awesome. An OVA series would be incredible for example and offer story telling opportunities not in a MMO

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

More like "what can we make on a new timetable because we scrapped the second half of this expansion". I think a 3-part novella on K'aresh is honestly more impressive than an Azir mustache twiddling scene like that bizarre Fyrakk scene before the Dream. But it's probably just a book vs cinematic/something 3D or visual because time and money is on a new expansion as opposed to the salvaged second half of an expac.

Remember, B*bby Kotick said Metzen came in and changed two expansion's worth of content because he thought it wasn't good enough. Everyone thought he was trolling but everything about 11.2 (and some of 11.1) align with this idea, especially when so little of TWW points to Quel'thalas.

Feel like this is always going to be a dangerous territory, we have no way of verifying anything the Warcraft Team has told us beyond the fact that they were willing to state that we should pack up our bags and realize that The War Within was abandoned due to its mid production change to this version with Undermine and K'aresh.

Obviously the Midnight Cinematic/Reveal will tell us a lot if there is some sudden switch. I am still very much skeptical though even if at least their honesty in regards to The War Within was appreciated. But, then there's the whole marketing around story and how excessively gaslighting it has become where it does not really reflect reality at all even as they keep marketing it as if it is must watch-tier.

Like yes, maybe they cannot get themselves on the treadmill of the new workload and they keep falling off it now. That's always possible. So this whole throw a audio novella 4 weeks prior to the patch makes sense in that view.

[Cheezits]

Feel like this is always going to be a dangerous territory, we have no way of verifying anything the Warcraft Team has told us beyond the fact that they were willing to state that we should pack up our bags and realize that The War Within was abandoned due to its mid production change to this version with Undermine and K'aresh.

I think that's a strong word. They put their heart and soul into Undermine, even if the original expansion-only story projected at launch (Beledar! Roots! Blood!) was warped and stretched. K'aresh is pretty cool despite asset reuse and the lore in the new book is nothing to sneeze at.

I guess you can say the original vision was abandoned, but even then, Orweyna and the Rootlands/Black Blood are likely coming back. Avaloren? Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[Hitei]

Remember, B*bby Kotick said Metzen came in and changed two expansion's worth of content because he thought it wasn't good enough. Everyone thought he was trolling but everything about 11.2 (and some of 11.1) align with this idea, especially when so little of TWW points to Quel'thalas.

Literally nothing aligns with this idea. We have the early evidence of Midnight being production even back in ongoing Dragonflight development cycle, where we got shit like the updated blood elf ship assets and a bunch of the likely proto-housing elements. If Metzen came in and changed two expansions worth of content, that was done way, way before the switch in TWW's patch content, likely before the early bits of TWW were done.

[Wangming]

Tbf I think warcraft as a franchise would benifit a massive amount from focusing on being a multimedia franchise instead of trying to be a game with tie in novels. It felt like they wanted this to be the case before with how many books/manga/comics/whatever we used to get, but a more modern take on the idea would be awesome. An OVA series would be incredible for example and offer story telling opportunities not in a MMO

And that is okay for other storylines. To maybe see what some characters do outside the main campaign. Like Chen and Li Li adventuring or whatnot. But not the backstory and motivation of the main villain.

[Ersula]

I think the honest implication is Nexus-King Saldahaar gives out the Nexus-Prince and Nexus-Princess titles out like candy, to Kareshi who do things for him. The Nexus-Prince from Legion is mentioned here pre-princedom.

The more likely explanation is simply that the aristocracy were priviledged with the opportunity to survive K'aresh's destruction. At least half of the survivors were royalty, probably.

[Jastall]

If she looked like this

it would have made so much more sense for the Forsaken to empathize with her and it would have made it feel less like a cult.

Yep, with a big ol' gap that doesn't heal where Frostmourne struck her, and lose the eyebrows and nice looking hair as well. She's a banshee, not some sex-fueled vampire, I'd rather she look like one.

[Wangming]

Yep, with a big ol' gap that doesn't heal where Frostmourne struck her, and lose the eyebrows and nice looking hair as well. She's a banshee, not some sex-fueled vampire, I'd rather she look like one.

Yeah I mean isn't she a ghost that posessed and reanimated her own dead body?

[Limayria]

And that is okay for other storylines. To maybe see what some characters do outside the main campaign. Like Chen and Li Li adventuring or whatnot. But not the backstory and motivation of the main villain.

why does the game need to be the narrative center of the franchise? Warcraft was an rts before an mmo after all and trying to have serious story telling in a game where the majority just wants to grind dungeons and do raids or bgs or w/e is always gonna be a hard ask. It's hard to have a meaningful story in a video game thats optional and wow would really struggle have protracted mandatory campaign quest like ff14 does

I personally would love more things like audio dramas or ~20 minute animated shorts showing things that happen while our character isnt around to give context to the story and think it would be a good compromise of increasing focus on the story while not forcing people who just wanna do m+ or just wanna raid log into a huge story quest commitment which seems to be a concern for blizzard

[Makorus]

why does the game need to be the narrative center of the franchise? Warcraft was an rts before an mmo after all and trying to have serious story telling in a game where the majority just wants to grind dungeons and do raids or bgs or w/e is always gonna be a hard ask. It's hard to have a meaningful story in a video game thats optional and wow would really struggle have protracted mandatory campaign quest like ff14 does

I personally would love more things like audio dramas or ~20 minute animated shorts showing things that happen while our character isnt around to give context to the story and think it would be a good compromise of increasing focus on the story while not forcing people who just wanna do m+ or just wanna raid log into a huge story quest commitment which seems to be a concern for blizzard

Because the game is the center of the franchise?

What a stupid question.

[Wangming]

why does the game need to be the narrative center of the franchise?

Are you testing me on purpose, or are you really this dim? It doesn't have to be the narrative center, but it should at least be self contained. This is like, storytelling 101. You don't put setup or payoff anywhere else, but inside your plot.

If even that's too much for them, maybe they should just abandon the whole story in video games nonsense, do some kind of lobby shooter instead, and just have the story told in animated series done by the art team.

[Jastall]

Yeah I mean isn't she a ghost that posessed and reanimated her own dead body?

She is, and I always found it puzzling this aspect didn't factor more in her story. Rather than the Kamehameha powers she got from BFA onwards, I'd have liked if they leaned more into her being able to bodysurf, or use her voice to terrifying effects, things along those lines. The game treated her like just another elf 99% of the time, girl shouldn't even need a bow IMO.

[Wangming]

She is, and I always found it puzzling this aspect didn't factor more in her story. Rather than the Kamehameha powers she got from BFA onwards, I'd have liked if they leaned more into her being able to bodysurf, or use her voice to terrifying effects, things along those lines. The game treated her like just another elf 99% of the time, girl shouldn't even need a bow IMO.

Ironically the opening cinematic for BfA was where she actually did some banshee stuff. But yes, the Royal Apotechary society likely spends most of its resources on some special embalming fluid that lets Sylvanas keep her tits, because I highly doubt a banshee's powers are necassarily capable of keeping a vessel from rotting for decades when they don't really need to stay in one for that long.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

I just think Story Marketing is a bad call because its' so hard to sell a great story product again and again unless you expend vast sums of money that doesn't function when shareholder value and increasing growth is the name of World of Warcrafts operation.

The "art" of a proper Story being told within the game which will come with financial losses is non sustainable and not going to happen and so reducing focus on the Narrative and instead focusing on the Game is a far better option within the structure of the World of Warcraft business.

Its' a headache that we had to have this schism because when questioned (if you're even allowed to question the Warcraft Team lmao) is stupid gaslighting instead of honesty and the realization this was a honest mistake on their part due to ego.

[Ersula]

Yeah I mean isn't she a ghost that posessed and reanimated her own dead body?

I guess, in the same way everyone is a ghost puppeteering their own body.

They tried explaining warcraft 3 lore that reanimated elves became ethereal spirits & humans became ghouls because it was the result of elves' inherent magical nature, but at this point it's just something special necromancers can do to raise the spirit & body separately. And because Sylvanas was a banshee in Warcraft 3 they had to establish her getting her body back.

[Cheezits]

It just ended up being "the story goes over three expansions now and we're going to tell you" versus "our story is now XIV tier"

[Hitei]

Are you testing me on purpose, or are you really this dim? It doesn't have to be the narrative center, but it should at least be self contained. This is like, storytelling 101. You don't put setup or payoff anywhere else, but inside your plot.

If even that's too much for them, maybe they should just abandon the whole story in video games nonsense, do some kind of lobby shooter instead, and just have the story told in animated series done by the art team.

Pretty melodramatic. The story is largely self-contained.

How did you people manage make it through early expansions, where there was actually just extremely relevant information completely left out of the game?

[Enrif]

It's curious how the Worldsould Radiant Song and the Void are strongly connected.

Probably a simple answer: Light and Void

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The Lorewalking story about Ethereals and Brokers already confirmed that Locus Walker and Ve'nari knew each other. This is how they met

duh... Nari -> Ve'nari... and here i thought if it might be Xal in disguise.

[Lahis]

duh... Nari -> Ve'nari... and here i thought if it might be Xal in disguise.

Yeah she is Nari, nowdays from the cartel Ve, so Ve'nari.