The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Murlocos]

My preferred faction dynamic was how vanilla handled it. If I had to sum it up broadly: the Alliance is ostensibly more powerful, but riddled with internal corruption and absent leadership that prevents it from being truly effective. The Horde is undermanned and surrounded by hostile forces, but their leadership is firm and present. Obviously maintaining that in perpetuity isn't feasible, and the story has gone all over the place and then some since, but I think both factions really need their identities re-established at this point.

Anduin is frustrating in this respect because post-Legion he's just good at everything and can do no wrong, his mere presence defuses tensions so badly that he destroyed the entire origin story of the Forsaken in a bad book. A one-off mention in the human heritage questline just saying he's solving corruption in the House of Nobles isn't interesting. The idea of young Anduin being outmaneuvered politically by corrupt nobles with decades of experience, along with a resurging Defias that he acts too softly against both makes Stormwind a more interesting kingdom and also serves his characterization well. There's so much they could do with Alliance storylines that aren't just "Turalyon and Yrel order every non-Light worshiper exiled and the Vindicaar nukes Thunder Bluff".

[loras]

My preferred faction dynamic was how vanilla handled it. If I had to sum it up broadly: the Alliance is ostensibly more powerful, but riddled with internal corruption and absent leadership that prevents it from being truly effective. The Horde is undermanned and surrounded by hostile forces, but their leadership is firm and present. Obviously maintaining that in perpetuity isn't feasible, and the story has gone all over the place and then some since, but I think both factions really need their identities re-established at this point.

Anduin is frustrating in this respect because post-Legion he's just good at everything and can do no wrong, his mere presence defuses tensions so badly that he destroyed the entire origin story of the Forsaken in a bad book. A one-off mention in the human heritage questline just saying he's solving corruption in the House of Nobles isn't interesting. The idea of young Anduin being outmaneuvered politically by corrupt nobles with decades of experience, along with a resurging Defias that he acts too softly against both makes Stormwind a more interesting kingdom and also serves his characterization well. There's so much they could do with Alliance storylines that aren't just "Turalyon and Yrel order every non-Light worshiper exiled and the Vindicaar nukes Thunder Bluff".

That part caught me by surprise how out of the blue it was, which is sort of the point i suppose. But think about it: It would be raining hamburgers for days!

[Lahis]

Oh you mean the 10.1 campaign mog. I see. Now that I look at it it seems like it was made like this on purpose, because the two sets complement each other. Same goes for the other colours too.

I haven't started that campaign yet, I wanted to finish all other campaigns first before moving on to the Forbidden Reach and eventually to the Zaralek Caverns. Of course it was only later that I realized the blue dragonflight campaign was added like a month ago.

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Speaking of which though, do the Aspects get their powers back by activating the mother oathstone or no? The questline ended kinda abruptly I feel. Alexstrasza sent me into the vault to kill Raszageth and then it just stopped. I get that there's more pressing matters but still.

The blue color version of the 10.1 quest set comes from World Quests and green raid trash drops from Aberrus.

[Murlocos]

That part caught me by surprise how out of the blue it was, which is sort of the point i suppose. But think about it: It would be raining hamburgers for days!

Everyone knows you have to kickstart your villain arc by blowing up a capital city of the opposite faction, it never goes out of style.

[KayRule]

elon musk should kill himself tbh

[Aeluron Lightsong]

We could just not villainize either faction and avoid making either look stupid or any splintering(Maybe a little bit of faction tension between Blue and Red but only minor cause well old habits die hard). Be nice to know whats been going on through out the years from SL to DF.

elon musk should kill himself tbh

He should of just stayed away from Twitter but nooooo he just had to have it.

[Tetley]

And, why would you give me this mog...



And not:

1: Give me legs to go with it
2: Let me hide the legs slot in transmog so I don't have to choose some shitty pants that don't really go well with it.

Transmog sets like this really annoy me this expansion. I understand that they are tailored towards the Dracthyr but I'd rather much get full sets with gloves/pants/chest/helmet/etc. and less of these sets than the unfinished stuff shown here.

[loras]

Everyone knows you have to kickstart your villain arc by blowing up a capital city of the opposite faction, it never goes out of style.

...I am still annoyed by how they managed to bungle that one in BfA.
Setiously Garrosh could do it credibly, why couldn't they have written it at least a little bit better and make it credible for Sylvanas too >_>

Hell the original WoW did it too by having the gnomes do it to their great enemy, the gnomes.

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We could just not villainize either faction and avoid making either look stupid or any splintering(Maybe a little bit of faction tension between Blue and Red but only minor cause well old habits die hard). Be nice to know whats been going on through out the years from SL to DF.




He should of just stayed away from Twitter but nooooo he just had to have it.

He literally tried to ditch the deal my dude.

[Nymrohd]

So, what would we like to see on Avaloren?
First off, what do we think happened there? If an Old God was on Avaloren, they are clearly contained (if an Old God had been loose for all these years, Azeroth should be corrupt by now).
I can see two scenarios here.
a) Innaria and her group of Keepers contained the Old God at some point in time. That means a Titan facility exists there (Uldaz?). Since that group of keepers were killed (or worse; the heretics' crime could be more complex) by the locals that facility is no longer staffed by titanforged. Did Innaria have other Titanforged with her? If yes, were those also slaughtered or did they collaborate with said heretics (or maybe they ARE the heretics)?
b) The locals actually KILLED the Old God there. The Keepers would likely not want to preserve that information (because they themselves were incapable of doing that). We know that Thiernax managed to kill an Old God using the power of the Night Warrior. What if Avaloren has an ancient Elunite proto-troll civilization that destroyed their Old God and evicted the servants of Order? Or the locals could have managed to kill the Old God in a different manner; maybe Azeroth empowered one of them like she did with the players in BfA and they spirit bombed the Old God. The locals could worship the planet instead of Wild Gods, the Light or other forces.

Who would the locals be. From above, it could include curse of Flesh'd Titanforged. But also we should consider that Primordial Azeroth did not just have Aqir and non-flesh Elementals. We know that the Black Empire was sacrificing people left and right to their gods; who were those people? I assume that some race of proto-trolls existed all the way back then. Another inspiration for who the locals can be is on the fleshy Elemental creatures. E.g. Salamanders must have been on Azeroth before Ra and Helya locked them together with Ragnaros in the Elemental Realm. What would have happened to them if they got less Elemental and more natural. Same reasoning for creatures like the phoenix or djinn. I think part of what made MoP better than DF was that every one of the locals was so different from the ones in Azeroth yet at the same time made sense in the same lore. Meanwhile DF is mostly Tuskar, Centaurs, Gnolls and Dragonkin with only the Djaradin being different. I would hope Avaloren has very different locals to the rest of Azeroth like Pandaria did.

Why have they ignored what happened to the rest of Azeroth? This is really the shit that annoys me the most. Dragon Isles seemingly ignores the Sundering, the Shattering, two Legion Invasions etc. The local cultures just went on without fail. Was no one in Avaloren worried about what would happen to the planet if the War of the Ancients went wrong (I would also love to know what the trolls were doing back then but that's another story)? Did the Cataclysm not affect them at all? It could work if their protective measures keep them in as much as they keep others out (unlike the Mists). Otherwise wouldn't they have at least tried to make some contact to check what was happening on the rest of the planet?

That said, I do hope we find an advanced civilization there. A capital at the level of Suramar and Boralus, large settlements, diverse people.

And honestly I do wish they consider creating a continent instead of a few isles. By this I mean, make it a place we explore across two expansions.

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Transmog sets like this really annoy me this expansion. I understand that they are tailored towards the Dracthyr but I'd rather much get full sets with gloves/pants/chest/helmet/etc. and less of these sets than the unfinished stuff shown here.

The thing is, those sets tend to match well with some full armor set that is also available so it ends up working for all.

[ImTheMizAwesome]

I saw some people mentioning shadow/void vs light expansion - Wouldn't that be pretty much the final expansion of wow?

Like it says in Son of the Wolf comic about possible future, of course it's just a comic that probably means nothing, but there's always a low chance of some of it to appear in WoW storyline.

"In a possible future, many, many years later, Anduin Wrynn as an old man re-reads his father's last letter and contemplates that there is only one more battle to be fought. Aboard the Exodar, Velen informs the High King that it is time, that they will never have an opportunity or chance like this again. As Anduin stands up, he remembers his father and all the others who have fallen, and Velen says that the Light will triumph over the Shadow this day."

[Nymrohd]

I saw some people mentioning shadow/void vs light expansion - Wouldn't that be pretty much the final expansion of wow?

Like it says in Son of the Wolf comic about possible future, of course it's just a comic that probably means nothing, but there's always a low chance of some of it to appear in WoW storyline.

"In a possible future, many, many years later, Anduin Wrynn as an old man re-reads his father's last letter and contemplates that there is only one more battle to be fought. Aboard the Exodar, Velen informs the High King that it is time, that they will never have an opportunity or chance like this again. As Anduin stands up, he remembers his father and all the others who have fallen, and Velen says that the Light will triumph over the Shadow this day."

There is no "final expansion" of wow. They will milk the game until it is dry so the storyline is unlikely to ever get a conclusion, least of all a narratively satisfying one.

[ImTheMizAwesome]

There is no "final expansion" of wow. They will milk the game until it is dry so the storyline is unlikely to ever get a conclusion, least of all a narratively satisfying one.

I know that there might not be a "final" expansion but just in theory, the void vs light just feels like the last final battle, where we get all powerful lore figures on both sides, there's many casualties on both sides and it just ends with a bang.

About milking, i hope they will because i still play the game, but yeah like i said above.

[Raetary]

I know that there might not be a "final" expansion but just in theory, the void vs light just feels like the last final battle

LvV stopped being a potential Endgame when they introduced the First Ones.

[Nymrohd]

LvV stopped being a potential Endgame when they introduced the First Ones.

True, in classic spectacle creep we now have the "Cosmos divided" shit.

[Santandame]

So, what would we like to see on Avaloren?
First off, what do we think happened there? If an Old God was on Avaloren, they are clearly contained (if an Old God had been loose for all these years, Azeroth should be corrupt by now).
I can see two scenarios here.
a) Innaria and her group of Keepers contained the Old God at some point in time. That means a Titan facility exists there (Uldaz?). Since that group of keepers were killed (or worse; the heretics' crime could be more complex) by the locals that facility is no longer staffed by titanforged. Did Innaria have other Titanforged with her? If yes, were those also slaughtered or did they collaborate with said heretics (or maybe they ARE the heretics)?
b) The locals actually KILLED the Old God there. The Keepers would likely not want to preserve that information (because they themselves were incapable of doing that). We know that Thiernax managed to kill an Old God using the power of the Night Warrior. What if Avaloren has an ancient Elunite proto-troll civilization that destroyed their Old God and evicted the servants of Order? Or the locals could have managed to kill the Old God in a different manner; maybe Azeroth empowered one of them like she did with the players in BfA and they spirit bombed the Old God. The locals could worship the planet instead of Wild Gods, the Light or other forces.

Who would the locals be. From above, it could include curse of Flesh'd Titanforged. But also we should consider that Primordial Azeroth did not just have Aqir and non-flesh Elementals. We know that the Black Empire was sacrificing people left and right to their gods; who were those people? I assume that some race of proto-trolls existed all the way back then. Another inspiration for who the locals can be is on the fleshy Elemental creatures. E.g. Salamanders must have been on Azeroth before Ra and Helya locked them together with Ragnaros in the Elemental Realm. What would have happened to them if they got less Elemental and more natural. Same reasoning for creatures like the phoenix or djinn. I think part of what made MoP better than DF was that every one of the locals was so different from the ones in Azeroth yet at the same time made sense in the same lore. Meanwhile DF is mostly Tuskar, Centaurs, Gnolls and Dragonkin with only the Djaradin being different. I would hope Avaloren has very different locals to the rest of Azeroth like Pandaria did.

Why have they ignored what happened to the rest of Azeroth? This is really the shit that annoys me the most. Dragon Isles seemingly ignores the Sundering, the Shattering, two Legion Invasions etc. The local cultures just went on without fail. Was no one in Avaloren worried about what would happen to the planet if the War of the Ancients went wrong (I would also love to know what the trolls were doing back then but that's another story)? Did the Cataclysm not affect them at all? It could work if their protective measures keep them in as much as they keep others out (unlike the Mists). Otherwise wouldn't they have at least tried to make some contact to check what was happening on the rest of the planet?

That said, I do hope we find an advanced civilization there. A capital at the level of Suramar and Boralus, large settlements, diverse people.

And honestly I do wish they consider creating a continent instead of a few isles. By this I mean, make it a place we explore across two expansions.

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The thing is, those sets tend to match well with some full armor set that is also available so it ends up working for all.

Uldaz I’d quite like to see repurposed as the capital city of the Heretics. Whether it be Void inspired or something else, I don’t really care. But I think a Suramar style city is sorely needed again.

As for which race the Heretics are; I see them being a coalition of several Avaloren native races. One race on Avaloren I can see happening is a feline based race. Similar to the Khajit from Elder Scrolls, but more regal as opposed to nomadic. It’s one of the typical fantasy races that we haven’t really seen in WoW yet, and a section of the player base will definitely love them. I think an Elvish race is likely par for the course too.

I want Avaloren to be a built up, well structured and populated continent. I want many different cities, towns, settlements, hamlets and war bases all of various architecture. We’ve just had an expansion of a wild, unexplored land. I know Avaloren will be unexplored by our races, but there should be a budding and prospering civilisation there.

I’m also hoping that they’re much more advanced than us in terms of technology, knowledge, wisdom, magic and military. I want the people there to feel like a real, genuine threat that dwarves the Horde, Alliance and adjacent factions. Have it so the only reason they’ve not invaded or made contact with us is because they see us as being so beneath them, that we aren’t worth their effort.

As for inspiration for the continent. I’m leaning towards a medieval Camelot with an advanced twist for parts of the continent, if we’re supposing Avaloren is inspired by Avalon. However, perhaps have another half of the continent be inspired by Central Asia, which is something we’ve not seen reflected in WoW yet. The continent should feel, and actually be huge.

[Nymrohd]

Uldaz I’d quite like to see repurposed as the capital city of the Heretics. Whether it be Void inspired or something else, I don’t really care. But I think a Suramar style city is sorely needed again.

As for which race the Heretics are; I see them being a coalition of several Avaloren native races. One race on Avaloren I can see happening is a feline based race. Similar to the Khajit from Elder Scrolls, but more regal as opposed to nomadic. It’s one of the typical fantasy races that we haven’t really seen in WoW yet, and a section of the player base will definitely love them. I think an Elvish race is likely par for the course too.

I want Avaloren to be a built up, well structured and populated continent. I want many different cities, towns, settlements, hamlets and war bases all of various architecture. We’ve just had an expansion of a wild, unexplored land. I know Avaloren will be unexplored by our races, but there should be a budding and prospering civilisation there.

I’m also hoping that they’re much more advanced than us in terms of technology, knowledge, wisdom, magic and military. I want the people there to feel like a real, genuine threat that dwarves the Horde, Alliance and adjacent factions. Have it so the only reason they’ve not invaded or made contact with us is because they see us as being so beneath them, that we aren’t worth their effort.

As for inspiration for the continent. I’m leaning towards a medieval Camelot with an advanced twist for parts of the continent, if we’re supposing Avaloren is inspired by Avalon. However, perhaps have another half of the continent be inspired by Central Asia, which is something we’ve not seen reflected in WoW yet. The continent should feel, and actually be huge.

So this isn't what I'd like to see, it's more complete as a concept. This is not even speculation, just an idea I had that is absolutely not going to happen in any shape or size.

Avaloren holds no Old God anymore. Innaria and her fellow keepers contained one in Uldaz during the Ordering but soon after the Titan left, Innaria, distant from the Forge of Wills and thus Titanforged reinforcements, attempted to use Order magic to compel the locals of Avaloren to serve her in maintenance of Uldaz as well as the Forge of Awakening, a Titan facility meant to midwife the planet or kill the World Soul in case it is corrupted.
The locals rebel against the Order magic. At least some of the Watchers serving under Innaria join them. The Proto-troll hero king Gil'gamesh (well obviously they can find a better name) kills Innaria but in the process Uldaz is breached. With the assistance of the elemental races of Avaloren he wages war on the Old God who blights nearly half the continent before chosen by Azeroth, Gil'gamesh is gifted with the Heart of Azeroth and uses it to kill the Old God and erect a barrier to contain the lost lands. Awaiting the wrath of Odyn, he sacrifices himself to erect and even greater barrier to protect Avaloren and separate it from Azeroth.
Modern Avaloren is split between several civilizations. The Uruk trolls rule from the Throne of Heroes and have long formed an alliance with the water nymphs and sylphs of Avaloren, creating the great city of Zul'Uruk at the border of the Adumbral Rampart, a city of step pyramids and floating gardens. The pygmies maintain small villages in the hills and mountains of Avaloren but never evolved into a major civilization while the Phoenix King of the Salamanders contests the the Throne of Heroes never forgiving the trolls for the Blight that primarily destroyed Salamander lands. In the Forge of Awakening the remaining Watchers maintain the Forge as well as the great Wall of Heaven that surrounds Avaloren and protects them from Odyn and the rest of Azeroth.

So, expansion

Whatever Iridikron does causes the Wall of Heaven to fail. Magni informs us (and Tyr, if he survives this expansion) that MOTHER has reconnected with the Forge of Awakening and found catastrophic failure in Uldaz. So an expedition is formed to sail to mythical Avaloren. In the first patch we arrive to find the continent besieged by the pirate forces of the Nightsquall who has taken over the Island city of the Water Nymphs by taking Queen Ondine hostage and thus paralyzing the troll Throne. Meanwhile we find evidence that a large void cult has infiltrated multiple levels of local society.
In 11.1 Odyn moves the Halls of Valor themselves to Avaloren, looking to take over the Forge of Awakening and seeking revenge against the locals.
As we return to Zul'Uruk from the Halls of Valor having killed Odyn with the help of Thorim and Freya we find that a coup has happened and the army is preparing to attack the Salamander kingdom. We defend the Salamander's capital from the siege, uncovering void influence and in 10.2.5 in a Megadungeon we defeat the usurper of the throne and find Xal'atath was behind everything
Finally in 11.3 with Avaloren weakened from the civil war and multiple assaults, Azshara arrives. NOT to attack. Rather she reveals how Xal'atath has already begun to take over the Forge of Awakening and helps us reclaim it. At the end of the raid as Xal escapes to the Void, Azshara steals Gil'gamesh's Heart of Azeroth and uses it to breach the Adumbral Rampart and head into the Blight, her purpose unknown.

[Raetary]

Idk, a third expansion about a continent hidden behind a magic wall sounds overkill.

At least have the protective mechanism be different.

Maybe there is no magic mist or invisible wall, but the continent is protected by unnaturally violent storms and gargantuan deep sea creatures (that may or may not be hijacked titan made constructs, or Old God abberations) that protect the place and devour any ship that comes near it.

Expansion intro could be us stranding onto the continents shores after our ship gets destroyed, and we have to find our own way in this strange new place.

Would also explain why the Forbidding Sea is so forbidding and unexplored.

[Nymrohd]

Idk, a third expansion about a continent hidden behind a magic wall sounds overkill.

At least have the protective mechanism be different.

Maybe there is no magic mist or invisible wall, but the continent is protected by unnaturally violent storms and gargantuan deep sea creatures (that may or may not be hijacked titan made constructs, or Old God abberations) that protect the place and devour any ship that comes near it.

Expansion intro could be us stranding onto the continents shores after our ship gets destroyed, and we have to find our own way in this strange new place.

Would also explain why the Forbidding Sea is so forbidding and unexplored.

Hey, I agree with the lost isle thing, that's why I wanted a revamp.

Massive deep sea creatures would be fun. Maybe they have a large number of Nespirah-level creatures that guard the island.

[Santandame]

I love the idea of enormous sea creatures prowling the seas surrounding Avaloren being the reason no one’s found it.

You could have one of the races that make up the Heretics be either an aquatic race that controls the creatures or work in harmony with them. Or it could be race that isn’t aquatic but has an affinity with water. Either way, this race could be the bulk of Avaloren’s navy or whatever.

I just really want the Heretics to be a coalition of Avaloren’s native races as opposed to one singular race.

[Nymrohd]

I love the idea of enormous sea creatures prowling the seas surrounding Avaloren being the reason no one’s found it.

You could have one of the races that make up the Heretics be either an aquatic race that controls the creatures or work in harmony with them. Or it could be race that isn’t aquatic but has an affinity with water. Either way, this race could be the bulk of Avaloren’s navy or whatever.

I just really want the Heretics to be a coalition of Avaloren’s native races as opposed to one singular race.

Yeah that's why I went with the classic elemental creatures by Paracelsus as a theme. You could have water nymphs (Undines) guarding the waters around Avaloren. What I'd rather not have is yet another anthropomorphic animal race whose origin lies in some Wild God/Loa