The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Raetary]

I have no idea what you're talking about regarding the blood of Y'shaarj. Do you have a more specific source for that?

I was actually thinking of Cenarius creating the Highmountain by blessing them with the Horns of Eche'ro, but obviously that's not quite relevant. Tauren in general are specifically the yaungol who followed Cenarius, but yeah I don't think there's actually a specific account of him transforming them into tauren, so maybe their hanging around Cenarius doesn't matter.

In that case, it comes down to whether the yaungol descend from an Ancient or not, and if Ancients really are titan-blessed as we've been told. I'd like for tauren to be untouched by titans, but I'm not holding my breath.

The chronicle did not mention Y'shaarj's blood whatsoever.

The Tauren were once Yaungol that settled around the WoE, they evolved like the Elves did, Cenarius only helped them learn druidism.

[Limayria]

Let's be honest. If we retain (not reclaim but never even lose) both Silvermoon and the Sunwell, Xal'atath will look like a loser. Hell, to make the invasion even remotely threatening, half of Quel'Thalas should go up in flames.

If the Sunwell is attacked and claimed, I doubt Silvermoon would be a safe place. And if Silvermoon falls but the Sunwell doesn't, I really don't think Qul'danas could serve as a player hub.

We could be pushed back to the Ghostlands and have us play with Southern QT and Zul'Aman before we start to push back.
We absolutely need to be able to quest in at least parts of Quel'Thalas, but i hope for terrible losses at the initial stage.

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While yes, it is also true that Xal takes great delight in the seduction and hazing of Alleria. The "very reasonable" decision of blocking the Sunwell from her is something Xal would capitalize on.

Or, like I said, the Sunwell will just blow the fuck up, and it won't matter anymore who gets close or not.

Not to mention just restoring the sunwell was always weird considering it just reset any kind of change or progress the belves were making and made them way way less interesting tying them into the light

I wonder if thats a side effect of them giving belves paladins

Ive always has a whacky conspiracy that TBC was supposed to introduce a third faction being the illidari under Illidan and having had their "faction specific class" have been the demon hunter

[Darkarath]

Yes. We controlled Silvermoon and the Sunwell was still defended and needed to be sieged and wittled down. I am glad you understand that Silvermoon contributes nothing and that Quel'danas has remained strong long after Silvermoon fell to the attacking forces on multiple occasions. That Silvermoon being taken doesn't magically make the Sunwell an easy target or do really anything at all.

Contributed nothing? The Legion was cornered in the Sunwell. Of course they resisted (not much, to be honest), but we are talking about the Legion. You know, the biggest threat for the universe until recent times?

What does it being the Legion have to do with anything at all? The Legion has never managed to defend ANY place it's holding. Suramar, Hellfire Citadel, Tomb of Sargeras, Argus. There being demons at the Sunwell doesn't change that it was a difficult and extended siege to take Quel'danas even with most of its actual magical defenses still offline.

Man you don't have a clue, don't you?

We took Suramar after months of continuous support of a revolutionary force within the Nightborne, and even then, when we launched our assault, Elisande just came and froze our forces. Only an infiltrated force through the sewers could finally conquer the city, because a normal siege would be impossible.

The Legion not only stood their ground in the Tomb of Sargeras, they literally wiped the floor with our corpses. Do I need to remember who fell there in our initial assault? Varian? Vol'jin? Tirion? Thousands of soldiers? Only when we repelled the Legion not only in the Broken Isles, but in all Azeroth, we managed to launch a successful assault. After probably more than a year of a continuous war of survival.

Proved... by only managing to get past its defenses because Dar'Khan was on the inside to let him in, kill the people defending it AND disable the Sunwell's defensive usage...? This argument makes no sense. If Arthas ultimately winning despite defenses is an indication of viability, then Quel'thalas stands no chance and is just going to be destroyed if the Void makes it anywhere into the kingdom.

The Sunwell defensive capabilities were protecting Silvermoon, which was a very hard fight even for Arthas. It was Silvermoon who stood against the Scourge, not the Sunwell, which proves my point. Silvermoon could help resist the Void, but with Silvermoon gone, the Sunwell doesn't has a chance. As Chronicles II stated, after Silvermoon fell, ''the Scourge swept over Quel'Danas''. It was not even a fight after Arthas challenged and killed Anasterian, who fled to Quel'Danas believing that the Scourge would not be able to go there without boats, but of course he was wrong. Silvermoon fell and the rest was piece of cake for Arthas.

No, I am trying to point out to you that Silvermoon is a borderline useless city that does absolutely nothing and holds little to no defensive value. The Sunwell without Silvermoon is the exact same thing as the Sunwell with Silvermoon because Silvermoon contributes 0 defensive capability. It is an ordinary city with a wall that provides no value at all against an attack from above. Quel'danas powered the impenetrable shield that protected the entire kingdom from attack. Silvermoon... sat there being pointless and housing civilians. The High Elves cared so little about Silvermoon being destroyed in the Scourge's invasion that they literally wrote the city off as "Whatever, we can rebuild it, the Sunwell is what matters."

Again, Arthas proves that you are wrong.

When Silvermoon fell after a very difficult campaign for the Scourge, which only achieved victory with the help of a traitor, Quel'Danas could not defend itself. I agree that the Sunwell helped defend Silvermoon, that is obvious, yet that doesn't change that the Sunwell without Silvermoon fell without a fight, as when Kael'thas came from Outland and Silvermoon could not help in the defense of Quel'Danas, and again it fell immediately.

Historically there are MULTIPLE TIMES where Silvermoon was attacked or taken and then Quel'danas remained defended and holding off against siege, so it's nonsense to pretend that Silvermoon falling magically makes the Sunwell defenseless. That it can eventually ALSO fall doesn't change that Silvermoon falling doesn't ensure that.

Multiple times? Name one.

What history has clearly shown is that when Silvermoon cannot defend the Sunwell, the Sunwell falls immediately. Even the Legion could not hold it for long.

[Wangming]

Ive always has a whacky conspiracy that TBC was supposed to introduce a third faction being the illidari under Illidan and having had their "faction specific class" have been the demon hunter

While it would make sense froma political standpoint, I don't think the Illidari are large and diverse enough for that.

When I try to come up with a third faction it always ends up being the Darkmoon Faire.

[Lahis]

Anyone watched Bellular's "I solved Blizzard's brain-melting Old God reveal" video from a day ago? I'm intrigued but I don't feel like watching his video, but I'm blanking on what "Old God reveal" he's gonna yap about - is it the Xal Lorewalking/N'zoth time loop thing?

Basically, like the Earthen after them, the Old Gods got azeroth'ed by the World Soul and weren't doing Void Lord's bidding in the end, but instead got free will from Azeroth and were doing their own thing, even going against their masters when they shut down Xal'atath, the Harbinger of Dimensius (aka Void Lords).

[Viridiel]

The chronicle did not mention Y'shaarj's blood whatsoever.

The Tauren were once Yaungol that settled around the WoE, they evolved like the Elves did, Cenarius only helped them learn druidism.

Yeah, I had a look through and I cannot find this reference to Y'shaarj's blood. I thought I would've remembered that.

This is what says exactly:

Over the passing of generations, the energies emanating from the Well of Eternity and keeper-wrought machineries around Kalimdor changed the yaungol in unique ways. Those near the vale would keep the name “yaungol,” though they grew more warlike than their distant cousins. Those in central Kalimdor, close to the Well of Eternity, would take the name “tauren.” The tribes that ventured to the north, near the Forge of Wills, would be called “taunka,” and they would adapt to the region’s icy terrain.

The idea that titan machines contributed to their transformation probably means that draenei really are the only playable race that haven't been affected by the titans. Mind you, that would also mean that Iridikron has definitely been affected too.

[Auxis]

Basically, like the Earthen after them, the Old Gods got azeroth'ed by the World Soul and weren't doing Void Lord's bidding in the end, but instead got free will from Azeroth and were doing their own thing, even going against their masters when they shut down Xal'atath, the Harbinger of Dimensius (aka Void Lords).

Ah. That's some sound logic. It's interesting that Azeroth wouldn't sway things to her side, but rather let's them think for themselves. I wonder if that's why the Old Gods were fighting amongst each other, rather than actively working on corrupting the world soul like they should have been.

[Therougetitan]

The idea that titan machines contributed to their transformation probably means that draenei really are the only playable race that haven't been affected by the titans. Mind you, that would also mean that Iridikron has definitely been affected too.

Technically they have been by virtue being a race birthed and raised on a titan planet, Argus, would naturally affect who they are or the genesis of it. it would be more apt to say not affected by the titan Pantheon under Aman'thul.

[Lahis]

Ah. That's some sound logic. It's interesting that Azeroth wouldn't sway things to her side, but rather let's them think for themselves. I wonder if that's why the Old Gods were fighting amongst each other, rather than actively working on corrupting the world soul like they should have been.

He also spoke about how the Old Gods as beings of Void could see all the possible futures and when N'zoth saw us back in time during the Dragonflight story, he knew the true timeline would be the one were they were defeated, so he organized a high risk plan where his essence would be stored into the dagger they made for Xal'atath.

We haven't seen the dagger since Wrathion stabbed N'zoth with it, and it certainly looked like it was suckign in something while embedded on N'zoth's carapace.

[Ersula]

Thanks, I don't remember that at all. I'll have to have a reread and find where that is.

I have a feeling he's wrong, though. There are humanoid creatures everywhere, several coming from planets with no Old Gods to speak of (never mind the fact that Old Gods are famously not humanoid). I'd point to worldsoul energy if not for the fact that Draenor naturally developed humanoid sporemounds. Maybe Draenor actually did have a worldsoul but it was consumed by the roots of the Evergrowth.

Platinumwow direclty says it was the blood in his creation of azeroth video. Considering the devs had him make official wow videos his version probably isn't far off.

Then the easier explanation was that it was simply a concentration of life/spirit energy. That's what the worldsoul is made of & what the old gods feed upon.

[Joshuaj]

Yeah, I had a look through and I cannot find this reference to Y'shaarj's blood. I thought I would've remembered that.

This is what says exactly:


The idea that titan machines contributed to their transformation probably means that draenei really are the only playable race that haven't been affected by the titans. Mind you, that would also mean that Iridikron has definitely been affected too.

Not to be that guy, but we literally don't know this. It's entirely possible the Titans did do stuff on Argus, and Sargeras simply destroyed it all.

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It's a similar case with K'aresh tbh. Sure, there's nothing confirming the Titans did stuff there, but it's not like it's confirmed they didn't do stuff either.

[Khaza-R]

Not to be that guy, but we literally don't know this. It's entirely possible the Titans did do stuff on Argus, and Sargeras simply destroyed it all.

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It's a similar case with K'aresh tbh. Sure, there's nothing confirming the Titans did stuff there, but it's not like it's confirmed they didn't do stuff either.

I always thought this was somewhat hinted in Antorus anyway. The Burning Throne area has titan artitecture but the rest of it looks demonic so its possible Sargeras just had it built over an existing titan facility.

[Timester]

Platinumwow direclty says it was the blood in his creation of azeroth video. Considering the devs had him make official wow videos his version probably isn't far off.

Then the easier explanation was that it was simply a concentration of life/spirit energy. That's what the worldsoul is made of & what the old gods feed upon.

Unless it's official in-game, it means nothing. Example: David Kosak and Sean Copeland tweets.


Probable speculation, but just a speculation.

[Nibelheimy]

He also spoke about how the Old Gods as beings of Void could see all the possible futures and when N'zoth saw us back in time during the Dragonflight story, he knew the true timeline would be the one were they were defeated, so he organized a high risk plan where his essence would be stored into the dagger they made for Xal'atath.

We haven't seen the dagger since Wrathion stabbed N'zoth with it, and it certainly looked like it was suckign in something while embedded on N'zoth's carapace.

What I would love to see, and it isn't going to happen. Is N'zoth being released from the blade in the skies while everyone is being distracted, and old god meteoring into the sunwell.

The concept of old gods landing on a planet is something we've not actually seen yet, but the Gamescom preview art with the void meteor looking things in the background reminds me of this.

I always hoped we'd one day get an expansion in which one of the plot points is we can see a new old god hurtling directly towards Azeroth, gotta use the goblin cannon for something I guess.

[Cheezits]

I wonder if Azeroth is characterless and agendaless. The Old Gods got close to her and became self-aware, wanting to live there instead of consuming the world (if Xal is to be believed, that is their sole purpose), but it doesn't seem like she talked with them.

Maybe it was just because she was so tightly wound in the Worldcore she couldn't contact them, but... just wondering if this lines up with the concept that the Radiant Song is fraudulent, and not exactly Azeroth's voice at all.

I kind of like the idea of Azeroth being so powerful that she's this innate formless source of Freedom and Will and not a scared lady calling for help. Then again, that could be just what the Titans are doing (turning a worldsoul into a humanoid titan against her will)

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I always hoped we'd one day get an expansion in which one of the plot points is we can see a new old god hurtling directly towards Azeroth, gotta use the goblin cannon for something I guess.

If that orb is in fact Xal'atath, I think she's the kind of character that Blizzard could legitimately shoot the cannon at. I think she'll take a juicy L at some point in Midnight and that would fit the bill. Also, VERY ironic considering Gallywix already screwed her over once.

[Joshuaj]

I wonder if Azeroth is characterless and agendaless. The Old Gods got close to her and became self-aware, wanting to live there instead of consuming the world (if Xal is to be believed, that is their sole purpose), but it doesn't seem like she talked with them.

Maybe it was just because she was so tightly wound in the Worldcore she couldn't contact them, but... just wondering if this lines up with the concept that the Radiant Song is fraudulent, and not exactly Azeroth's voice at all.

I kind of like the idea of Azeroth being so powerful that she's this innate formless source of Freedom and Will and not a scared lady calling for help. Then again, that could be just what the Titans are doing (turning a worldsoul into a humanoid titan against her will)

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If that orb is in fact Xal'atath, I think she's the kind of character that Blizzard could legitimately shoot the cannon at. I think she'll take a juicy L at some point in Midnight and that would fit the bill. Also, VERY ironic considering Gallywix already screwed her over once.

*Cannon fires at Xal'atath*

*It goes through Xal'atath like nothing*

The Goblins, realizing you literally can't hit a fucking Void Lord like that, as they're basically non existence itself:

[Wangming]

Maybe it was just because she was so tightly wound in the Worldcore she couldn't contact them, but... just wondering if this lines up with the concept that the Radiant Song is fraudulent, and not exactly Azeroth's voice at all.

Off topic, but worldcore sounds like a music genre. Like some sort of mash of folk music styles with hardcore punk.

[Auxis]

I wonder if Azeroth is characterless and agendaless. The Old Gods got close to her and became self-aware, wanting to live there instead of consuming the world (if Xal is to be believed, that is their sole purpose), but it doesn't seem like she talked with them.

Maybe it was just because she was so tightly wound in the Worldcore she couldn't contact them, but... just wondering if this lines up with the concept that the Radiant Song is fraudulent, and not exactly Azeroth's voice at all.

I kind of like the idea of Azeroth being so powerful that she's this innate formless source of Freedom and Will and not a scared lady calling for help. Then again, that could be just what the Titans are doing (turning a worldsoul into a humanoid titan against her will)

Black Empire predates the Worldcore, it being a Titan mechanism. Maybe she was still in an early stage of formation back during the Empire?

[arandomuser]

i hope we get a borrowed power system in midnight, i think shadowlands really soured people due to the hard lock in + alt unfriendliness, i would like to see them try something in the post warband world, they cant just add more talents infinitely and re doing them every so many expansions is just borrowed power with extra steps

[Chickat]

For Midnight I'd like it all to be in Quel'thalas, with it being expanded out into four giant modern-sized zones - a rebuilt Ghostlands, rebuilt Eversong, Zul'aman zone, and the not-Northern western coast area. I want a full rebuild of an existing region, not just some basic Cata-esque tweaking of the existing geography.

Save the Easter Kingdoms revamping for a whole other expansion (post WSS).



We just got that big splashart of the Void invading.



And there was the housing preview, that's looking pretty good.

Not much in the way of like content leaks, they'll probably ramp up after the big patch next month.

I guess the days of leaks for the next expansion are over since we know about Midnight and TLT. I hope they dont tell us the names of the next trilogy if they do it again. Speculating is half the fun.