The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Hitei]

DF replacing BFA as the new player expansion is one of the biggest hints to a revamp I've seen in a while.

Not really. It was also pretty obvious that this was going to happen from the start.

[Hyde]

It looks like a Kodo that came straight out of AU Draenor portal.

Sounds like an Yrel expansion to me.

Kodos are native to Kalimdor, not Draenor.

[Nymrohd]

I dont think we are getting 10.2 until after Blizzcon.

10.1.7 will still need 6 weeks of testing even though its smaller.

10.2 will need at least 8 weeks of testing too.

10.1.7- August 22nd/29th earliest
10.2- October 24th at the earliest, but I think they would delay it till Nov 7th. Allows more polish time, plus I think 10.2 is going to be a larger patch than 10.1.

10.2 testing will likely start in the next few weeks. 10.1 went into PTR 2 weeks before 10.0.7 launched

Heck will Blizzard be at Gamescom this year? They could show 10.2 at Gamescom (Aug 23) and then release it on the PTR later that day.

[Darkarath]

DF replacing BFA as the new player expansion is one of the biggest hints to a revamp I've seen in a while.

I see it as the opposite. A revamp would have a new leveling experience for new players and probably for several races too. Now there is still the possibility of a partial revamp, which IMO is more realistic and would make more sense, focused on max level players and established in a new map, working just as a new continent, but we will see...

If they keep just adding new continents though, DF as the new player experience would be just the best option.

Honestly this information leads me to believe that Avaloren / The Other Side of Azeroth is next as a big continent that might span several expansions.

[lanerios]

DF replacing BFA as the new player expansion is one of the biggest hints to a revamp I've seen in a while.

Except blizzard has stated since they started the "new player expansion" concept that they would keep moving it up. This is nothing new, just wishful thinking on your side.

[Hitei]

I see it as the opposite. A revamp would have a new leveling experience for new players and probably for several races too. Now there is still the possibility of a partial revamp, which IMO is more realistic and would make more sense, focused on max level players and established in a new map, working just as a new continent, but we will see...

Yeah, this honestly.

There's no reason for DF to become the new leveling expansion if they were doing a large scale revamp, because you could just have Exile's reach spit new players out into racial starting zones. That instead they are being sent to DF suggests that 11.0 will be typically "endgame" focused in design, not world-based.

[Foolicious]

Heck will Blizzard be at Gamescom this year? They could show 10.2 at Gamescom (Aug 23) and then release it on the PTR later that day.

They are not. Not even rumours they may want to book some space last minute. They also didn't attend last year.

[Worldshaper]

Yeah, this honestly.

There's no reason for DF to become the new leveling expansion if they were doing a large scale revamp, because you could just have Exile's reach spit new players out into racial starting zones. That instead they are being sent to DF suggests that 11.0 will be typically "endgame" focused in design, not world-based.

I actually kind of disagree, although I see your point and think it is valid.

If they do a revamp in 10.3 or 11.0, considering the underlying story reasons for this, it would make sense if the revamp comes with a twist.

For example, we don't get access to the zones' evergreen versions right away. Instead, Kalimdor and/or Eastern Kingdoms has been overtaken by Queen Azshara and corrupted by Azeroth's Void-infuence.

The story campaign of 11.0 might have us gradually take back these zones, resulting in a fully revamped world to use by the time the expansion draws to a close.

In this scenario, it would also a make perfect sense for Dragonflight to be the default levelling experience since it acts as a prologue to 11.0.

So...

In 10.2, the experience still looks like this:

1. Exile's Reach or time-locked Cataclysm starting zones.
2. Battle for Azeroth.
3. Dragonflight.

In 11.0, it might look like this:

1. Exile's Reach or time-locked Cataclysm starting zones.
2. Dragonflight (endgame content in EK and KA).

While finally, in 11.3 or 12.0 it could end up as follows:

1. Exile's Reach or new starting zones in KA and EK.
2. Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms.

There's also, of course, a chance that they do something radical to leveling starting with the next expansion or the one after. Perhaps levels go away. Perhaps you always pick an expansion from Chromie to level up in, while the revamp is only for endgame content. Maybe there are no more intended leveling paths, and anyone can just hop into an adventure mode kind of thing in the revamp, gaining levels as they do the same dynamic world content aa everybody else.

[Hitei]

I actually kind of disagree, although I see your point and think it is valid.

If they do a revamp in 10.3 or 11.0, considering the underlying story reasons for this, it would make sense if the revamp comes with a twist.

For example, we don't get access to the zones' evergreen versions right away. Instead, Kalimdor and/or Eastern Kingdoms has been overtaken by Queen Azshara and corrupted by Azeroth's Void-infuence.

The story campaign of 11.0 might have us gradually take back these zones, resulting in a fully revamped world to use by the time the expansion draws to a close.

In this scenario, it would also a make perfect sense for Dragonflight to be the default levelling experience since it acts as a prologue to 11.0.

So...

In 10.2, the experience still looks like this:

1. Exile's Reach or time-locked Cataclysm starting zones.
2. Battle for Azeroth.
3. Dragonflight.

In 11.0, it might look like this:

1. Exile's Reach or time-locked Cataclysm starting zones.
2. Dragonflight (endgame content in EK and KA).

While finally, in 11.3 or 12.0 it could end up as follows:

1. Exile's Reach or new starting zones in KA and EK.
2. Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms.

There's also, of course, a chance that they do something radical to leveling starting with the next expansion or the one after. Perhaps levels go away. Perhaps you always pick an expansion from Chromie to level up in, while the revamp is only for endgame content. Maybe there are no more intended leveling paths, and anyone can just hop into an adventure mode kind of thing in the revamp, gaining levels as they do the same dynamic world content aa everybody else.

That seems even more unlikely than sending new people to DF and then to revamp zones.

What you're suggesting is effectively that they make TWO revamps in a single expansion/back to back.

Because now you have to make, e.g. New Elwynn Forest with all its new quest lines about murlocs and gnolls and whatever for the new world (the zone as it will be in 11.3/12.0) AND you have to make a second version of it, with entirely different complete quest lines about void attacks and Naga invasions and stuff (the zone as it will be in 11.0). Even if they are sharing the same base terrain, you're having to write all the questing and scripting and items and whatever for two entire versions of Elwynn (and by extrapolation every other zone on the map that is going to be used in 11.0-11.2.5.

And all this has to be done while still working on the 12.0 expansion, since they're obviously not going to do "11.0 is Void Azeroth and 12.0 is non-Void Azeroth"

[Worldshaper]

That seems even more unlikely than sending new people to DF and then to revamp zones.

What you're suggesting is effectively that they make TWO revamps in a single expansion/back to back.

Because now you have to make, e.g. New Elwynn Forest with all its new quest lines about murlocs and gnolls and whatever for the new world (the zone as it will be in 11.3/12.0) AND you have to make a second version of it, with entirely different complete quest lines about void attacks and Naga invasions and stuff (the zone as it will be in 11.0). Even if they are sharing the same base terrain, you're having to write all the questing and scripting and items and whatever for two entire versions of Elwynn (and by extrapolation every other zone on the map that is going to be used in 11.0-11.2.5.

And all this has to be done while still working on the 12.0 expansion, since they're obviously not going to do "11.0 is Void Azeroth and 12.0 is non-Void Azeroth"

That's not quite what I meant.

Imagine Elwynn forest has a new and revamped version. New players in 12.0 might go there as part of their "Exploring Azeroth" campaign, or whatever.

But in 11.0, it isn't part of that campaign yet. There is another "campaign" playing out first. The "Save Azeroth and Defeat Queen Azshara" campaign.

In this campaign, Elwynn might utilise some new and immersive tech to slightly darken the air. Perhaps there's an alternate sky box. Maybe a dynamic event spawns Naga or Void minions once a day. Not saying it must happen this way, only that it is a possibility from a technical standpoint.

It also makes a lot of sense if they did create a system for this type of dynamic changing of the zones, since the idea of an evergreen revamp would be to be able to use each zone in a thousand different ways in the future. To tell unique and dynamic stories that change over time, not to create static events like the Shattering.

There are a dozen ways they could go about it though. Dragonflight could be made the default questing experience because they simply don't want levels and experience quests in the revamped Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms. Maybe they only want to use them for endgame content, or at least for a type of permanent and evergreen experience where they do not need to consider things like level scaling etc.

Maybe the revamp isn't the expansion's new "continent" at all. It could be the case that the revamp is more of a free game-wide systems update, like when they overhauled levelling in 7.3.5 or whenever it was. There could be an "Avaloren" or a collection of Cataclysm-like 70-80 zones where you level up and experience the new Azshara/Void story, while Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms serves as a sort of backdrop for additional and evergreen content you can do. So Exile's Reach/Time-locked Cata starting zones for 1-10, then Dragonflight the default experience for 11-70, "Avaloren" or whatever it ends up being for 71-80, and the revamped Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms is there in the background for extra content and campaigns.

[Raetary]

https://twitter.com/keyboardturn/sta...hyW0Ue5sw&s=19

Looks like Druids of the Flame will be a new rep.

[Reive]

Dragonflight confirmed as future levelling experience for new players

rip world revamp dream, right?

[Hitei]

That's not quite what I meant.

Imagine Elwynn forest has a new and revamped version. New players in 12.0 might go there as part of their "Exploring Azeroth" campaign, or whatever.

But in 11.0, it isn't part of that campaign yet. There is another "campaign" playing out first. The "Save Azeroth and Defeat Queen Azshara" campaign.

In this campaign, Elwynn might utilise some new and immersive tech to slightly darken the air. Perhaps there's an alternate sky box. Maybe a dynamic event spawns Naga or Void minions once a day. Not saying it must happen this way, only that it is a possibility from a technical standpoint.

It also makes a lot of sense if they did create a system for this type of dynamic changing of the zones, since the idea of an evergreen revamp would be to be able to use each zone in a thousand different ways in the future. To tell unique and dynamic stories that change over time, not to create static events like the Shattering.

Yes, I understood what you meant. What I am saying is that you are still making two zones.

You are making the physical terrain for a "new Elwynn" but then you are having to make two entire zones worth of quest areas. The void campaign Elywnn is a zone with void monsters and Naga and a storyline (read: campaign quests) about fighting against this void invasion and has side quests about how wolves are being driven mad by the void influence. And then you have 12.0 Elwynn whose campaign is about gnolls and murlocs and with side quests about gathering wolf pelts to make a blanket for a grandma in Eastvale.

For every zone involved you are having to to create double the actual playable content. You are proposing two expansions. Sharing the same terrain only solves one part of the problem.

If the "Void" version is just a simple events overlay (which by the way, is almost certainly never going to happen, because they're not going to make their entire 11.0 expansion a minimal effort phase-based campaign overlayed on content intended for 12.0) , there'd be ZERO reason not to just put new players in the unphased zones. Hell, this entire thing makes no sense, why would they bother switching over to DF for leveling if they know that in a couple patches they're going to switch it over to the new starting zones? They'd just leave BfA as the default.

There are a dozen ways they could go about it though. Dragonflight could be made the default questing experience because they simply don't want levels and experience quests in the revamped Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms. Maybe they only want to use them for endgame content, or at least for a type of permanent and evergreen experience where they do not need to consider things like level scaling etc.

Maybe the revamp isn't the expansion's new "continent" at all. It could be the case that the revamp is more of a free game-wide systems update, like when they overhauled levelling in 7.3.5 or whenever it was. There could be an "Avaloren" or a collection of Cataclysm-like 70-80 zones where you level up and experience the new Azshara/Void story, while Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms serves as a sort of backdrop for additional and evergreen content you can do. So Exile's Reach/Time-locked Cata starting zones for 1-10, then Dragonflight the default experience for 11-70, "Avaloren" or whatever it ends up being for 71-80, and the revamped Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms is there in the background for extra content and campaigns.

There are infinite "what ifs". They could be making DF the default because Alexstrasza is the big bad of 12.0. But not every possibility is likely. It's unlikely they'd do a revamp and not want to also use it as a leveling experience, especially since all those zones are gonna be designed for leveling (70-80 or whatever) anyway. It is unlikely that they're going to do a whole revmap on the side just because, unless that revamp consists of only updating texture quality and adding higher poly trees, like in Darkshore and Arathi.

Given that Ian said that the plan was "as we move in to future expansionS, to have Dragonflight be the new leveling experience" it seems very, very unlikely that a revamp is in the works for 11.0 or 12.0.

[Chickat]

30:45 of that video, Ion confirmed Dragonflight is going to replace BfA as the default leveling experience for new players.

Which kills any hope of a revamp imo.

[Nymrohd]

I'll say this though, it does not kill the hope of a visual update.

[Worldshaper]

Yes, I understood what you meant. What I am saying is that you are still making two zones.

You are making the physical terrain for a "new Elwynn" but then you are having to make two entire zones worth of quest areas. The void campaign Elywnn is a zone with void monsters and Naga and a storyline (read: campaign quests) about fighting against this void invasion and has side quests about how wolves are being driven mad by the void influence. And then you have 12.0 Elwynn whose campaign is about gnolls and murlocs and with side quests about gathering wolf pelts to make a blanket for a grandma in Eastvale.

For every zone involved you are having to to create double the actual playable content. You are proposing two expansions. Sharing the same terrain only solves one part of the problem.

If the "Void" version is just a simple events overlay (which by the way, is almost certainly never going to happen, because they're not going to make their entire 11.0 expansion a minimal effort phase-based campaign overlayed on content intended for 12.0) , there'd be ZERO reason not to just put new players in the unphased zones. Hell, this entire thing makes no sense, why would they bother switching over to DF for leveling if they know that in a couple patches they're going to switch it over to the new starting zones? They'd just leave BfA as the default.


There are infinite "what ifs". They could be making DF the default because Alexstrasza is the big bad of 12.0. But not every possibility is likely. It's unlikely they'd do a revamp and not want to also use it as a leveling experience, especially since all those zones are gonna be designed for leveling (70-80 or whatever) anyway. It is unlikely that they're going to do a whole revmap on the side just because, unless that revamp consists of only updating texture quality and adding higher poly trees, like in Darkshore and Arathi.

Given that Ian said that the plan was "as we move in to future expansionS, to have Dragonflight be the new leveling experience" it seems very, very unlikely that a revamp is in the works for 11.0 or 12.0.

Still glossing over the point I was making imo.

First, they absolutely can make "phases" of zones to use temporarily for events. Ever since I started speculating about an evergreen world revamp years ago, a large part of my thinking has revolved around temporary and dynamic events to make the world feel alive. "Oh no, this month a gnoll invasion takes place in Elwynn! Hero, go there and put a stop to it," followed by a "well done, everything is back the way it was and life can continue as normal for these people. Have 10 gold for your effort." They do not, and should not, build two entire and separate versions of the same zone.

When it comes to using the revamped continents for levelling, I don't think that's a given. At least not right away. Levelling by its very nature creates complexity, in terms of content flow, scaling, the amount of content presented and where, etc. I think this leads us back to Cataclysm, and content that goes out of date. A revamp has to focus on evergreen and dynamic content. It needs to give us a lose framework for all sorts of content (boars in a forest, an abandoned tower somewhere by a lake, a cave in a mountain), but not a specific story or a bunch of one-off quests. Think D&D.

For the next decade, Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms should serve as an evergreen backdrop for content they can fall back on, both in content lulls and for telling interesting stories. Once you've done your raid night and your weekly quest over in "Avaloren" or whatever, regular Azeroth should be there and always present you with interesting stuff to do. Whether that, for you, means farming herbs or pushing back a group of bandits from taking over a village in Durotar.

[Sondrelk]

Which kills any hope of a revamp imo.

Why? It just means its unlikely a world revamp does the same things as Cataclysm did. There is nothing preventing a world revamp having the new content at endgame.

[ImTheMizAwesome]

Well, what if there will be some sort of revamp but that doesn't include starting experience, but offers systems and content for max lvl activities, getting currencies for all kind of stuff like we have vendors for Time rifts etc.

But % of revamp happening went lower a little bit in my hopes, i think next expansion might be just about elemental(bleh) or titans, pirate stuff with 2 new main races coming.

[Darkarath]

I'll say this though, it does not kill the hope of a visual update.

I just not see the point of a visual revamp. Veteran players would not go to old zones without new content, and new players would level in DF and then go right away to the latest expansion.

A visual revamp without new content is pointless. If it is something easy to do with the new assets that they have been doing over the years, sure, why not? Even if it would have a minor impact, it would be a welcomed change. But if it implies a lot of work, they would be just wasting resources.

Another situation would be that they do a visual revamp, taking the chance to include the Draenei and Blood Elves' zones in the same instance of the old world, and then use the Dreamsurges tech that we would see in 10.1.7 with those zones. I think that Dreamsurges are a very smart move and could be easily applied anywhere.

I have little doubt that when they include Timewalking Zones (for sure coming in 10.2 as BfA TW is not coming in 10.1.7, surely because they want to bring it along with the TW system revamp), they would apply the same tech. Hell, the new items that gives us appearances and mounts from past content would probably be farmeable with a new account currency related to TW, that we can obtain from WQs of TW zones. In such a way, they would make the enormous amount of content and collectibles of past expansions more easy to approach for all players.

[Xilurm]

Why? It just means its unlikely a world revamp does the same things as Cataclysm did. There is nothing preventing a world revamp having the new content at endgame.

What about the hopes of having new starting zones for each race? Because when it comes to a revamp that's one of my biggest wants. To not bundle up all the races together like they're all the same. Like they're doing in Exile's Reach.