1. #9461
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Isn't ER mandatory only for the first-timers? It will defo stay this way, simply becasue it teaches you all the basics and is completely lore neutral.
    I meant to say ER and Cata starters. ER will always stick around and blends into DF, but the Cata zones are too confusing and go against the entire rest of the setting now.

    Also ER every single time is a bit much if they just got rid of Cata zones as an option (at least for character select)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ceveris View Post
    "The vassal of life disguises treachery. Beware the eyes of green."

    I think the Dream will just have more green eye characters. Probably an NPC literally called the Vassal. AFAIK, the ONLY big life character with green eyes right now is Malfurion, and unless the one in Ardenweald was a Dreadlord he's checked out.

  2. #9462
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Malfurion isn't the suss one here, unless you explain where the actual Malfurion went and such. Not showing it would just be confusing.
    Last edited by Aeluron Lightsong; 2023-07-15 at 02:30 PM.
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  3. #9463
    Any one else that doesn't like the idea of "councils"? Horde council, Forsaken council etc? I'd much prefer a singular leader.

  4. #9464
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    I think the Dream will just have more green eye characters. Probably an NPC literally called the Vassal. AFAIK, the ONLY big life character with green eyes right now is Malfurion, and unless the one in Ardenweald was a Dreadlord he's checked out.
    Ysera: "Am I a joke to you?"

  5. #9465
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    I think the Dream will just have more green eye characters. Probably an NPC literally called the Vassal. AFAIK, the ONLY big life character with green eyes right now is Malfurion, and unless the one in Ardenweald was a Dreadlord he's checked out.
    Malfurion has been very inconsistent with eye colour anyway. He changes from gold to green to silver quite regularly depending on model or game.
    If anything comes from this whisper i'm sure we will see hints in 10.2.

    Quote Originally Posted by Worldshaper View Post
    Ysera: "Am I a joke to you?"
    I'm pretty sure Ysera has very noticeable blue eyes right now with all that ardenweald energy she has going on.

  6. #9466
    Over 9000! Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    Any one else that doesn't like the idea of "councils"? Horde council, Forsaken council etc? I'd much prefer a singular leader.
    Ahahaha yeeee, this worked so well for the Horde in the past.

    The sole reason they went council mode was because of Garrosh/Sylvi. Would make little sense to keep doing Warchief after so many fuck-ups.
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2023-07-15 at 03:12 PM.
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  7. #9467
    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    Any one else that doesn't like the idea of "councils"? Horde council, Forsaken council etc? I'd much prefer a singular leader.
    It was cool when they did it with the Dwarves, because it represented their different lineages and added tension to their story.

    Horde and Forsaken councils just feel like they're trying to dodge establishing a new direction for these respective factions. It just becomes an ambiguous, flavorless mess. In trying to appease everyone they appease no one type of deal.

  8. #9468
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Ahahaha yeeee, this worked so well for the Horde in the past.

    The sole reason they went council mode was because of Garrosh/Sylvi. Would make little sense to keep doing Warchief after so many fuck-ups.
    Is it really that hard to not pick an unhinged person to lead your faction? Thrall's worst decision was to put Garrosh in charge. He could've let literally anyone else lead.

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    When it comes to the Forsaken at least, them using the Lordaeron crest on their clothing makes me think they're accepting Calia as the de facto leader, even if it's technically a council.

  9. #9469
    Over 9000! Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    Is it really that hard to not pick an unhinged person to lead your faction? Thrall's worst decision was to put Garrosh in charge. He could've let literally anyone else lead.
    It seems it is. But Horde burned themselves super hard with their warchiefs, so it is logical for them to pick more democratic approach.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    When it comes to the Forsaken at least, them using the Lordaeron crest on their clothing makes me think they're accepting Calia as the de facto leader, even if it's technically a council.
    Well, every council needs a chairman.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  10. #9470
    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    When it comes to the Forsaken at least, them using the Lordaeron crest on their clothing makes me think they're accepting Calia as the de facto leader, even if it's technically a council.
    The Forsaken are the successor state of the Kingdom of Lordaeron, there's nothing really conspicuous about using the logo. That said, yes, it's invariably going to be about Calia because she has a unique model and they badly want to make her work. They're just likely to pussyfoot around it again closer to the SL epilogue story rather than the BFA-era trashfire. The real question is if they try their hand at trying to backtrack from Sylvanas in BFA style again, given the impossibility to do a Forsaken heritage story that doesn't bring up the most important Forsaken character or if they try to avoid the massive elephant in the room.
    Last edited by Super Dickmann; 2023-07-15 at 03:30 PM.
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  11. #9471
    It got leaked that the Council awards the Forsaken Armor, not Calia, so I don't think she's going to be the leader. It will be interesting to see how they changed in the timeskip but I think it's still going to be a joint Voss/Calia thing as the face of the group.

    What Calia ACTUALLY does in the Undercity will be interesting. Also, whether or not the Primus connects with them.

  12. #9472
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    It got leaked that the Council awards the Forsaken Armor, not Calia, so I don't think she's going to be the leader. It will be interesting to see how they changed in the timeskip but I think it's still going to be a joint Voss/Calia thing as the face of the group.

    What Calia ACTUALLY does in the Undercity will be interesting. Also, whether or not the Primus connects with them.
    I sincerely hope they don't bring back the Undercity and if there's a change it's to remodel upper Lordaeron. From the datamined business it seems like either the Maw or Maldraxxus will come up. THe DEsolate Council being the ones to hand the reward doesn't mean much since the fact that there's a council doesn't mean one member isn't the focus of the story. But given how the last bit went I do see them being cautious with Calia.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

    Tinkers will be the next Class confirmed.

  13. #9473
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    The Forsaken are the successor state of the Kingdom of Lordaeron, there's nothing really conspicuous about using the logo. That said, yes, it's invariably going to be about Calia because she has a unique model and they badly want to make her work. They're just likely to pussyfoot around it again closer to the SL epilogue story rather than the BFA-era trashfire.
    Well yeah but that does mean they are accepting their heritage. At the end of the day it's just a logo/symbol. They could've used something else like they have done all this time. Part of their heritage also means that they were ruled by a Menethil, even if one of them was unhinged and destroyed everything.

  14. #9474
    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    Well yeah but that does mean they are accepting their heritage. At the end of the day it's just a logo/symbol. They could've used something else like they have done all this time. Part of their heritage also means that they were ruled by a Menethil, even if one of them was unhinged and destroyed everything.
    There's nothing new about them accepting their heritage, Lordaeronian nationalism was part of the bedrock of the Cataclysm shift. It's so on the nose that there's a quest where Sylvanas goes on about it. It's literally called Lordaeron. There being an issue with Lordaeronian heritage entirely stems from the shitty BFA tie-in book, which also tried to turn acceptance of Lordaeron into wanting to be discount humans instead of recontextualizing it to mesh with their undeath.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

    Tinkers will be the next Class confirmed.

  15. #9475
    Quote Originally Posted by Ceveris View Post
    https://www.wowhead.com/news/nozdorm...dawn-of-334056

    It seems logical to me that the megadungeon is called "the dawn of infinity" and not "the fall of infinity". The transformation of Norzdormu into Murozond is more than likely, our actions only prove it.
    Honestly, it would still be greatly disappointing if this were the case. While it does line up with the already-known circumstances of Murozond's transformation, I figured an upending of the timeline was in order to begin with. Absolutely nothing unexpected is occurring here other than that Nozdormu's transformation has been delayed to the exact circumstances under which we already know it will occur. I maintain the transformation should have happened in Dawn of the Infinite because it's far more in-line with the role of the Infinite Dragonflight to begin with to have something entirely unprecedented occur and screw up the timeline.

    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    The sole reason they went council mode was because of Garrosh/Sylvi. Would make little sense to keep doing Warchief after so many fuck-ups.
    Contrast what is reasonable within the story and what is better for its overall health. On one hand, you're right that it would be an absolutely nonsensical decision in-universe. Conversely, the deprecation of the position of warchief is an irrevocable defilement of the Horde's identity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khaza-R View Post
    It was cool when they did it with the Dwarves, because it represented their different lineages and added tension to their story.

    Horde and Forsaken councils just feel like they're trying to dodge establishing a new direction for these respective factions. It just becomes an ambiguous, flavorless mess. In trying to appease everyone they appease no one type of deal.
    Agreed. The Horde's direction, as it is, is completely confused and partially deprived of its original context and identity.

  16. #9476
    Quote Originally Posted by Foolicious View Post
    I'm pretty sure Ysera has very noticeable blue eyes right now with all that ardenweald energy she has going on.
    Oh, that's right.

    Okay, time to reconsider our options.

    "The vassal of life disguises treachery, beware the eyes of green."

    In other words:

    "The person who's got a mutual obligation with a monarch of life (or simply life, depending on how loosely they apply the term 'vassal') is actively disguising treachery. Watch out for this jealous person."

    To me, this sounds like somebody on "Team Life" is a traitor, but the question remains who this person is, and whether it is an act of betrayal against Life itself, or simply against one of the leaders of that faction.

    Could Ysera secretly be jealous of her sister?

    Did Malfurion take Ysera's place within the Shadowlands for a malicious reason?

    Is Alexstrasza going to betray her charge as Life-binder, and side with the enemy?

    Is there somebody else rather important in service of any of these three, who could turn out to be a traitor?

  17. #9477
    All of these things sound out of character for all these characters.

    I hope it's not Elune.

  18. #9478
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Conceptuel View Post
    Agreed. The Horde's direction, as it is, is completely confused and partially deprived of its original context and identity.
    Stuff like this is why I'm firm that BfA did a ton of damage to the immediate setting of the game, even though SL gets (rightfully) a lot of attention in that regard. Whacking the Horde with the pure evil bat in a faction war expansion only a few years after the last time has put them in the ICU. Even worse, a poorly written faction war that just abruptly ends because Sylvanas tells you to see the rest of the story in the next expansion and leaves. I'd go so far as to say Blizzard is happier to reference the events of SL than BfA, because it's just this unresolved lingering cloud over the factions they hope everyone forgets as time passes.

    It's why I'm really not jazzed with the ideas of evil zealot Turalyon or villainous Alliance. I think that writing has been disastrous for the Horde and turnabout is not fair play here.

  19. #9479
    Evil Turalyon is so dumb, honestly. Alleria too. They don't need to be evil, they need to be kept in the background so they can come forward and be the main leading characters when the eventual void expansion happens.

    Or maybe the light expansion. That'd be interesting if Yrel comes knocking. Light vs Light, with a little bit of Void on the side.

  20. #9480
    I am Murloc! Auxis's Avatar
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    So what's the general consensus in here about the NE heritage so far?

    I'm seeing a surprising amount of meh/dislike on other sites, several comments about no "purple and gold" or how the chest isnt a bra.
    When the set is almost literally a 1:1 copy of the set that the vanilla cinematic/box Night elf was wearing. And body type 2 has a matching bra (for the maroon colour at least) if you REALLY need to have a bra.

    Tbh the set really encapsulates heritage/traditional night elf units. Huntress, sentinel, moon priestess, it just looks right. And it looks like it could be enterpretted as any armour type which is a bonus.
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