The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Darkarath]

Ok let's do some cooking.

I think that most of us here agree with the idea that Blizzard will revamp, sooner rather than later, all EK and Kalimdor. This would create some problems even if they do them all at once. The timeline would be fucked up like in Cata times, but probably worse, as it is very unlikely that Blizzard would revamp both continents at the same time.

One way in which this could work is that new players start what IMO are the expansions of the WSS: DF (Dragon Isles) - TWW (Khaz Algar) - Midnight (All EK) - TLT (All Northrend) - 14.0 (All Kalimdor). I know that people focus a lot in new leveling experiences when revamping zones, but the fact is that almost no one level by questing these days, especially with events like Winds of Misterious Fortune and Turbulent Timeways. So Blizzard might cook something there, giving us maybe small questlines like the MQ of Khaz Algar, and then fill the revamped zones with rares and treasures, but being able to return to them when needed to add a Delve, Dungeon... What have you.

Another way is that Midnight gives us a new world map, keeping the Dragon Isles, Khaz Algar and the revamped EK zones. The Void invades us and the rest of the map is in darkness. This would give Blizzard the freedom to re-visit any zone whenever they feel like it. Old zones could go to CoT, but there is another option, Remix.

We all know that REMIX won't stop with Legion. It's just a fantastic system, and even a necessary one that allows both new and old players to play old expansions in a fun way while allowing sick collectors like me to get past mounts, pets, cosmetics, achievements... Eventually we might have almost an expansion for every month of the year:

- BC Remix.
- WotLK Remix.
- Cata Remix.
- WoD Remix.
- Legion Remix.
- BfA Remix.
- SL Remix.
- DF Remix.

They could even add a Classic Remix. Just make one of these Remix active every month of every few months and then Blizzard could revamp everything without caring about phasing issues, old zone versions and Bronze Dragons shitty system of going back in time.

[Hitei]

They can just add Quel'thalas to the Cataclysm EK map.

I don't see where this argument is coming from?

EK is a continent all to itself, increasing its size ~60-70% with that additional 60-70% being like 10 times more detailed is not a particularly smart way to keep a world server stable. It also makes for a very jarring sudden switch from slightly improved 2004 textures and models to 2025 ones when you fly over a mountain. It also just completely disrupts the entire look of a long established continent and throws every other kingdom out of scale when it's on the same map.

[Wangming]

I mean, we're talking revamp or just a touch up? If it's anything like Cata or above then that seems physically impossible to achieve. That is a lot of environment and quests they'd have to make for a single expansion.

I mean, nothing moved mountain ranges, so the environment could for the most part remain the same, with a few model updates here and there. But toppled buildings should be rebuilt and fires put out. Quite a few zones act like the Cataclysm was hours ago.

[huth]

If only they had a roadmap of what's going to happen for three full expansion and behind the scenes do the work in advance. It's not like other dev teams had to recreate and entire MMO from scratch while half the team was still updating the old one. Oh wait..

Well, no. They didn't. Not something of this scale.

[COBRAstriker]

While I'm a big fan of experimental game modes and remixes as it allows for more creative freedom, currently, these are still more FOMO features, and I think that most people prefer features with staying power
Timewalking and remix features alongside some other changes or additions could be a great way at keeping old content relevant and replayable, as one of the main problems WoW has is that you basically play the patches, not the game, and even the game is designed to push you to the latest patch or expansion as fast as possible
Wouldn't it be great if you could go back and do Throne of Thunder on a reasonable difficulty, I would say, I don't think anyone is looking for top end Mythic challenges, for some useful or cool rewards?

[Hearthfinder]

I mean, we're talking revamp or just a touch up? If it's anything like Cata or above then that seems physically impossible to achieve. That is a lot of environment and quests they'd have to make for a single expansion.

The best way to do a revamp is to create a new version of whatever continent they're revamping, recreating the general shape of it but larger with with modern design.

Add support for evergreen world content (world quests, gathering, etc.).

No quest chains are needed, nor any of the old scripted events and such.

Just let it be a canvas for future storytelling.

In 15.0 they might need a quest taking place in the cellars of some building in modern Gilneas, or in 16.0 a temporary event in Hillsbrad.

The revamped continent is always there to support it.

They can also add things not specific to the overarching main story. A campaign for humans, or Rogues? It's all possible and way easier to do in a revamped world.

Not to mention delves and dungeons with a modern design, which could feature in M+ pools or just be there for leveling players to give the world more depth.

[Hitei]

The best way to do a revamp is to create a new version of whatever continent they're revamping, recreating the general shape of it but larger with with modern design.

Add support for evergreen world content (world quests, gathering, etc.).

No quest chains are needed, nor any of the old scripted events and such.

Just let it be a canvas for future storytelling.

In 15.0 they might need a quest taking place in the cellars of some building in modern Gilneas, or in 16.0 a temporary event in Hillsbrad.

The revamped continent is always there to support it.

They can also add things not specific to the overarching main story. A campaign for humans, or Rogues? It's all possible and way easier to do in a revamped world.

Not to mention delves and dungeons with a modern design, which could feature in M+ pools or just be there for leveling players to give the world more depth.

That is a very significant amount of resource allocation for "maybe we'll eventually put a quest in a cellar in Gilneas". Resources that could otherwise go towards actually new and novel stuff.

- - - Updated - - -

Wouldn't it be great if you could go back and do Throne of Thunder on a reasonable difficulty, I would say, I don't think anyone is looking for top end Mythic challenges, for some useful or cool rewards?

That is what MoP Classic is.

[Timester]

Guys, don't expect any EK revamp, it wont going to happen anytime soon as they are planning Quel'thalas AND Northrend revamp. Resources will be focused on what they already mentioned.

Don't get yourselves high-hopes and then dissapointed. Quel'thalas is easy because it's already instanced and still stuck in TBC, and then resources will move to Northrend revamp.

[COBRAstriker]

That is what MoP Classic is.

But it shouldn't be just classic. MoP content didn't vanish from retail. Aa of now, the only reason to revisit it is to one shot everything for some item you're missing
There is much more potential there. At the end of the day, it's supposed to be WORLD of Warcraft, not patch of Warcraft

[Hitei]

But it shouldn't be just classic. MoP content didn't vanish from retail. Aa of now, the only reason to revisit it is to one shot everything for some item you're missing
There is much more potential there. At the end of the day, it's supposed to be WORLD of Warcraft, not patch of Warcraft

There's not really much more potential though, because the devs already made what you are asking for. They made an entire gamemode so you can experience not just Throne of Thunder but every raid, dungeon, quest repgrind, scenario, etc. of MoP at not only "a reasonable difficulty" but nearly exactly the difficulty it was originally created at and balanced for.

Throne of Thunder timewalking/update and slapping a few transmog rewards on it is a pale imitation of a thing that already exists and can be played right now. And also an idea that only works a single time because as soon as you have the rewards from that scaled up ToT, it is just as useless and dead to players as the current retail ToT. It's not really making it "world of warcraft" it's just a patch where everyone goes and runs Throne of Thunder once and then is just as done with it.

[COBRAstriker]

There's not really much more potential though, because the devs already made what you are asking for. They made an entire gamemode so you can experience not just Throne of Thunder but every raid, dungeon, quest repgrind, scenario, etc. of MoP at not only "a reasonable difficulty" but nearly exactly the difficulty it was originally created at and balanced for.

Throne of Thunder timewalking/update and slapping a few transmog rewards on it is a pale imitation of a thing that already exists and can be played right now. And also an idea that only works a single time because as soon as you have the rewards from that scaled up ToT, it is just as useless and dead to players as the current retail ToT. It's not really making it "world of warcraft" it's just a patch where everyone goes and runs Throne of Thunder once and then is just as done with it.

Classic is separate from retail, whatever you earn in either version does not translate in the other. Why shouldn't I be able to take my level 80 in retail, the character I'm actively playing and I'm attached to, and have a go at some old raid with a small group of players for some cool title, crests, chance at a cool mount, or what have you?
Plenty of other MMOs do a decent job at keeping their old content relevant and replayable through various mechanisms, I see no reason why retail shouldn't strive to do the same

[Enteroctopus Magnificus]

Guys, don't expect any EK revamp, it wont going to happen anytime soon as they are planning Quel'thalas AND Northrend revamp. Resources will be focused on what they already mentioned.

Do you realize that you are comparing a small area to a large continent? Don't you think Quel'thalas would have to be enlarged enormously to be the size of a continent, or is it more reasonable to think that they would make northern EK, which is more in line with the size of a current continent?

[Radioactive]

Wouldn't it be fun, though?

It could go either way but if, if, they chose to revamp everything north of the Thandol Span, we could have a pretty cool content line-up.

• Quel'Thalas and Zul'Aman - obviously the main setting for the story campaign and focal point of the Void invasion. Slightly expanded from today's size, especially in the east where the trolls dwell. Definitely needs a troll raid or mega-dungeon and a void raid, as well as couple of regular dungeons.
• Eastweald/The Plaguelands/The Northlands - this former scourge stronghold could provide the backdrop for a very cool quest-chain involving the resurgence of a new plague or something similar. Strange disappearances around the villages, people falling ill out of nowhere, and monsters appearing in the night. This would mainly be used to plant the future story seeds for The Last Titan, perhaps in one of the later patches. Also a great location for a dungeon involving the undead or the Red Dawn perhaps.
• The Hinterlands - a quest-chain or battleground could focus on "Old Hatreds" between Amani, High Elves, Wildhammer Dwarves, and perhaps even Ogres. All those four are present to some extent around the borders of The Hinterlands, aren't they? Great way to give purpose to that region. Obviously some type of Void influence to connect it to the main story. Or hey, could even just be a fun 22nd Anniversary event.
• Arathi Highlands and Hillsbrad Foothills - we've just been there but I could see an opportunity to expand on the Arathi lore further. Maybe Hallowfall Arathi arrive in greater numbers. Additionally, we could perhaps follow Faerin Lothar on a legendary quest to find the location of the ancient temple - and the Scion. This would then pay off near the end of the expansion. I could maybe see a dungeon here, based on exploring something related to this temple? Is the Red Dawn trying to sack it? Definitely do something cool with Alterac and Dalaran's crater. Perhaps we could finally get some really cool castle ruins up in the mountains, overlooking the valleys far below. Definitely a delve here, dungeons of old Dalaran or something.
• Gilneas and Silverpine Forest - these go hand in hand in my opinion and could maybe be a new Alliance capital. A city in the making in a beautiful highland coastal setting. The spooky forest would provide a welcome new Alliance backdrop that we usually don't get to see. Spooky witches and lots of mystery. Throw in a delve that lets us explore more lore around the worgen curse and how it (maybe?) connects, however losely, to Queen Craishae.
• New Lordaeron - no motivation needed really, but the Undercity with an overground portion should be re-built for the Forsaken, and this would then be a new capital city for them once more. Obvious location for a dungeon inside the Scarlet Monastery.

Seeing your list made me realize that revamping the north EK might be a little too much for a single expansion. Quel'Thalas should be a huge part of the expansion, having Quel'danas, Sunwell City, Amani empire/city, Ghostland and obviously Silvermoon/Eversong Forest fitting more real scale to the lore.

I could not wish more for a whole North EK revamp, but I cannot see Blizzard make all the zone I said above huge and detailed AND also making the same thing for Loarderon, Eastweald, Arathi, Hillsbrad etc... But they could definitely fit in patch zones to transition toward TLT and shenanigans with Arathi/Red Dawn/Scarlet Crusade/Calia and forsakens

So 4 zones : Eversong Forest, Ghostlands (renamed?), Amani Lands and Quel'Danas (which would be put closer to Silvermoon so Silvermoon+Sunwell City feel like Suramar in terms of scope, if not larger) could be more realistic for launch
Maybe the peninsula above startholme would be a patch zone story-heavy for 12.0.7, leading to an Eastweald zone for 12.1.0 covering Easter plaguelands with Scholomance/Stratholme/Light's hope

But then I am out of guesses for what would be next, because if we have a Loarderon revamp at some point, I wish it would be done properly from Whispering forest to Thandol Span, but it seems not to be expected since we go to Northrend.

The thing is, it would be a missed opportunity if they introduce the Amani Lands with Midnight, and the with TLT we go in Northrend without having any interactions with other trolls in Eastweald, The Hinterlands Arathi Highlands.

[Dvalin]

Do you realize that you are comparing a small area to a large continent? Don't you think Quel'thalas would have to be enlarged enormously to be the size of a continent, or is it more reasonable to think that they would make northern EK, which is more in line with the size of a current continent?

For me, the first. As that's what the devs are claiming to do for Midnight.

[Radioactive]

This is why I would sort of love a WC2 WoW spin-off. Just focus on the Eastern Kingdoms but make the map huge. No more tiny settlements with a few houses. Actual cities and towns.

Oh yeah. A kinda dream of spin off warcraft game in between Elden Ring (RPG) in terms of feel and Warcraft (RTS) in terms of epicness/story, where we explore these lands and have huge army battles.

[Lady Atia]

Classic is separate from retail, whatever you earn in either version does not translate in the other. Why shouldn't I be able to take my level 80 in retail, the character I'm actively playing and I'm attached to, and have a go at some old raid with a small group of players for some cool title, crests, chance at a cool mount, or what have you?
Plenty of other MMOs do a decent job at keeping their old content relevant and replayable through various mechanisms, I see no reason why retail shouldn't strive to do the same

Well tbf, they already asked in a survey if people would like to have classic characters end up on retail. While I doubt they will do it with the current classic ones (since it would be a slap in the face for everyone who didnt play classic because they stated that they wont be connected), I still think a "season of legacy" that is clearly marked as "play through classic-wotlk and end up on retail once all is done" would work a lot better than just "vanilla remix but some things are available and some things arent because .... reasons". I could imagine the chinese event realms are possible a test for that, since the whole fated style system that grinds you through raids would be something that remix players would prolly enjoy a lot.

[Hitei]

Don't you think Quel'thalas would have to be enlarged enormously to be the size of a continent, or is it more reasonable to think that they would make northern EK, which is more in line with the size of a current continent?

The first is more reasonable.

[Enteroctopus Magnificus]

For me, the first. As that's what the devs are claiming to do for Midnight.

That's your assumption, because Metzen did indeed say we would return to Quel'thalas, not that it would ONLY be Quel'thalas, although that is possible.

[rainhard]

They could just revamp the entire Kalimdor + EK in Midnight. Problem solved guys.
#teamworldrevamp

Sounds doable and creates absolutely grounded expectations of a complete draenor levels of revamp of every classic continent + zone + resized + levels of details as new zones (rares, treasures, cheevos) + some humble request for a timeless relevance mode.

[Makorus]

Surely they would have said they are doing more than Quel'thalas if they were doing more than Quel'thalas. It would generate so much more hype in the moment, and it's not like anyone is going to lose their shit about a revamped Eastern Plaguelands or Hillsbrad at Gamescom. It's big enough to not reveal but also not big enough to be a hype moment.