The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[COBRAstriker]

Well tbf, they already asked in a survey if people would like to have classic characters end up on retail. While I doubt they will do it with the current classic ones (since it would be a slap in the face for everyone who didnt play classic because they stated that they wont be connected), I still think a "season of legacy" that is clearly marked as "play through classic-wotlk and end up on retail once all is done" would work a lot better than just "vanilla remix but some things are available and some things arent because .... reasons". I could imagine the chinese event realms are possible a test for that, since the whole fated style system that grinds you through raids would be something that remix players would prolly enjoy a lot.

I think that classic and retail should stay strictly separated. People that play either version have pretty strong reasons for their preference, and even Holly said that the overlap between the versions is much smaller than people are assuming
Then, this opens a whole new can of worms. What exactly can you transfer? Classic is using old tech, most features like reputations and so on are character bound. How do those convert to the warbands system? A polearm in MoP classic will have signficantly Iower stats in retail, for sure some items will slip through and I can already see Blizzard being stuck in a long game of whack a mole here. A lot of other issues that could be popping up
Rather, they should start treating the world (of Warcraft) as an entire unit, and not place all the focus on the latest expansion, or latest patch zone. One, it's become too formulaic, and two, it's not really sustainable. There's only so many mysterious islands on a single world
What I would like to see, is more focus on the world. Give me a delve in Fargodeep Mine in Elwynn Forest with Goldtooth as the final boss. Let me get a small group of friends and tackle an old raid for some cool rewards. Give me some world quests in Outland. Not every new addition has to tie into the current/latest expansion or patch theme

[Al Gorefiend]

To be fair, there was a change in the lore at some point pre-release.

The site for TWW originally said this for Hallowfall: "Lit by a massive crystal at its center, this bright underground zone is home to the Arathi, a human tribe who have battled against nerubians for centuries." It was changed on November 17, 2023 to "Lit by a massive crystal at its center, this bright underground zone is home to the Arathi who are engaged in a continuing battle against the nerubians".

It is probably a safe bet that originally Hallowfall was not where the Hallowfall Arathi ended up but rather where they originated.

This is why ive been so effing confused on arathi lore since I lately been half paying attention since SL.

I just assumed time fuckery magic and collected gear.

[Enteroctopus Magnificus]

The first is more reasonable.

I don't know, taking a part of the old world that's already the size of a continent seems more reasonable to me than taking one of the smaller zones and expanding it to the size of an entire continent for an entire expansion, especially since Blizzard likes to diversify its zones to avoid any form of fatigue.

They'd have to significantly expand Quel'thalas to include something other than elves and trolls, so that means new zones, which again isn't impossible (I'm boring everyone with my icy zone), but is still much less likely than simply focusing on existing zones to be honest.

I'm definitely on the #OnlyQuel'thalas team, but I honestly have some doubts. This situation is exciting; it's our first revamp expansion ! Midnight promises to be crazy in many ways. I can't wait to see what Blizzard has in store for us.

[Makorus]

I don't know, taking a part of the old world that's already the size of a continent seems more reasonable to me than taking one of the smaller zones and expanding it to the size of an entire continent for an entire expansion, especially since Blizzard likes to diversify its zones to avoid any form of fatigue.

They'd have to significantly expand Quel'thalas to include something other than elves and trolls, so that means new zones, which again isn't impossible (I'm boring everyone with my icy zone), but is still much less likely than simply focusing on existing zones to be honest.

I'm definitely on the #OnlyQuel'thalas team, but I honestly have some doubts. This situation is exciting; it's our first revamp expansion ! Midnight promises to be crazy in many ways. I can't wait to see what Blizzard has in store for us.

I mean, you got Eversong Woods (Elves), Zul'aman (Troll), Ghostlands (Really, could be anything, probably not Scourge as they were taken care of in a questline SL) and either Silvermoon (mypersonal guess, void infested city), Quel'danas (Void Corrupted Sunwell) or even Telogrus.

It's not any less varied than Dragonflight or even TWW was. All of those zones are very different aesthetics.

[Enteroctopus Magnificus]

I mean, you got Eversong Woods (Elves), Zul'aman (Troll), Ghostlands (Really, could be anything, probably not Scourge as they were taken care of in a questline SL) and either Silvermoon (mypersonal guess, void infested city), Quel'danas (Void Corrupted Sunwell) or even Telogrus.

It's not any less varied than Dragonflight or even TWW was. All of those zones are very different aesthetics.

I agree in principle, but I was mainly talking about racial diversity. 5 of the areas you mentioned are exclusively elven even though they have void or scourge variants. Personally, I wouldn't mind, I love elves and it would be a great opportunity to really explore them. However, they will probably want to avoid a situation of fatigue like the orcs during WoD.

[Sondrelk]

The first is more reasonable.

How exactly is it more reasonable? The latter is far more in line with what players want and can expect to see continued. The other is just setting the developers up to fail when remaking the entire continent is impossible.

[Xilurm]

When Metzen was talking about TLT he said "we're going to the wintery lands of Northrend, there at Ulduar...". Now, we know that they ain't just gonna make Ulduar and Storm Peaks into 4 expansion zones. Northrend is already massive as it is, the size of the Dragon Isles. So that one might take a more of a Cataclysm approach when we're talking about a revamp.

When he was talking about Midnight, he again mentioned Quel'thalas, and then the Sunwell.

Quel'thalas = Northrend.
Sunwell = Ulduar.

Wouldn't he have said "northern Eastern Kingdoms" if the expansion was meant to take place across the entirety of the northern part? I mean ok, it doesn't roll of the tongue that well but still.

[Enteroctopus Magnificus]

How exactly is it more reasonable? The latter is far more in line with what players want and can expect to see continued. The other is just setting the developers up to fail when remaking the entire continent is impossible.

Yeah, beyond the elves, we also forget that the Void wants to massively invade the entire planet, and not just the forests where the elves live. The Void wants to use the Sunwell for its offensive, but I doubt that this plot will be enough to keep us on the edge of our seats for the entire expansion. If we can at least see the human kingdoms to the south that would be nice (even if I find them boring help), we can even assume that the Arathi will also want to participate in Renilash, which implies a certain human presence, and therefore surely at least part of Lordaeron. Otherwise what would have been the point of the recent quests in the Arathi Highlands?

Damn, I can't wait for Gamescom to come!

[Cheezits]

While it's technically possible to do just Ghostlands, Eversong, Amani area and a Naga/Ethereal/Draenei zone (or Queldanas) I don't think it will happen due to lack of variety at launch. Ignoring Stratholme, Lordaeron, Scholomance and the Red Dawn would be kind of crazy.

[Dvalin]

While it's technically possible to do just Ghostlands, Eversong, Amani area and a Naga/Ethereal/Draenei zone I don't think it will happen due to lack of variety at launch. Ignoring Stratholme, Lordaeron, Scholomance and the Red Dawn would be kind of crazy.

Your frame is wrong, though. There wouldn't be a lack of variety, as the devs can introduce some plausible 'subzones' with different climates. Like a mountainous part bordering Lordaeron. The Amani homelands have never been properly explored, either. The Ghostlands could have Scourge remnants, Eversong its beautiful autumnal aesthetic, then there's the Void invasion going on, etc. Enough potential enemies, just like any expansion. And I would count on the devs to properly implement enough variation, as that's one of their design-philosophies.

[Sondrelk]

While it's technically possible to do just Ghostlands, Eversong, Amani area and a Naga/Ethereal/Draenei zone I don't think it will happen due to lack of variety at launch. Ignoring Stratholme, Lordaeron, Scholomance and the Red Dawn would be kind of crazy.

As I have said many times before. It's possible, but beside a bigger area dedicated to Zul'Aman, there isn't really anything in Quel'thalas that couldn't be explored better in other nearby zones.
If you want the Red Dawn, Forsaken, and other stuff related to the old alliance between humans and elves, or more recent with Forsaken and elves, then go to Lordaeron.
If you want trolls, then you have the Hinterlands with the iconic Jintha'alor, as well as the various troll ziggurats in the Plaguelands.
If you want undead, then don't go to the Ghostlands, go to the Plaguelands, where the real meat of the storyline is. Which also allows use of the most iconic locations in WoW, with Stratholme and Scholomance.

And of course, while less likely. Having Gilneas and Lordaeron as split faction hubs, you both get to update those. And also have a greater focus on Silvermoon as a hostile location that can eventually be retaken. Rather than a friendly location that either needs to share space with a hostile invasion, or undercut the story by having us defend it at the start of the expansion.

[Xilurm]

Assuming there they only focus on Quel'thalas, I really, REALLY want to have old zones revamped completely for the patches instead of them pulling out new random zones out of their asses.

[Sondrelk]

Your frame is wrong, though. There wouldn't be a lack of variety, as the devs can introduce some plausible 'subzones' with different climates. Like a mountainous part bordering Lordaeron. The Amani homelands have never been properly explored, either. The Ghostlands could have Scourge remnants, Eversong its beautiful autumnal aesthetic, then there's the Void invasion going on, etc. Enough potential enemies, just like any expansion. And I would count on the devs to properly implement enough variation, as that's one of their design-philosophies.

Zul'Aman is the only thing you have mentioned which really deserves a big upgrade. The Ghostlands specifically is just a bargain bin version of the Plaguelands. And you could just as easily just make it look like Eversong Woods while focusing the Plague aesthetic on Deatholme and the Plaguelands specifically.

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Assuming there they only focus on Quel'thalas, I really, REALLY want to have old zones revamped completely for the patches instead of them pulling out new random zones out of their asses.

Would be nice for sure.
Azuremyst and Bloodmyst would be great candidates for a patch island, especially if the devs want to give a conclusive ending to the Draenei storyline so far by having them actually build a proper hub above ground.

[Cheezits]

Amani Highlands is a no brainer for a zone, Eversong and SMC can standalone, it's really Ghostlands which is questionable unless it extends into Deatholme and below.

Then there's the fourth zone (unless there isn't one lol) which would have to be pulled out of nowhere.

Just do a Lordaeron zone (Plaguelands cleansed) being the fourth with the Scourge stuff being in Deatholme area.

That way you hit four unique vibes- Elf, Scourge, Medieval and Troll. The first three are deeply intertwined and then Troll is a fun side thing.

[COBRAstriker]

Assuming there they only focus on Quel'thalas, I really, REALLY want to have old zones revamped completely for the patches instead of them pulling out new random zones out of their asses.

Bingo. Start Midnight with Quel'Thalas, focus on the rest of the older zones in patches. Same for TLT, and whatever follows. Stratholme has been on fire for 20 (real world) years, surely someone could have found a use for it in all this time, be it Alliance humans, the forsaken or the Scarlet Crusade
It saddens me greatly whenever I go through these iconic older zones and I see them completely barren. Retail is really missing that feeling of being in a huge, shared world, that is so well done in the Classic versions, Vanilla especially. Players gathering or questing or just going about their business around you, that definitive MMO feel
More activities and reasons to keep players in the world. I also believe that any tech that artificially segregates players, like sharding, should be completely removed

[milkmustache]

Amani Highlands is a no brainer for a zone, Eversong and SMC can standalone, it's really Ghostlands with is questionable unless it extends into Deatholme and below.

Then there's the fourth zone (unless there isn't one lol) which would have to be pulled out of nowhere.

Just do a Lordaeron zone (Plaguelands cleansed) being the fourth with the Scourge stuff being in Deatholme area.

Ghostlands would be great candidate for an easy to sell "invasion" zone. It's already pretty destroyed, turn some of the undeath aspects to Void aspects and let that be one of the main battlegrounds against the Void so that Eversong and SMC can stand relatively untouched asesthetically.

[Makorus]

The biggest issue with Northern EK is the fact that it's extremely boring and most likely not even relevant?

Like, what's even the point of Plaguelands cleansed? Who cares about Hillsbrad? Same with Silverpine, or Alterac.

It really sounds like a case of memberberries rather than wanting them to add zones that are going to be relevant or have an interesting story to tell.

idk, I feel like adding "place, but void" simply because it's an old zone is a bit... lazy.

[Cheezits]

The biggest issue with Northern EK is the fact that it's extremely boring and most likely not even relevant?

Like, what's even the point of Plaguelands cleansed? Who cares about Hillsbrad? Same with Silverpine, or Alterac.

I would argue far more than those clamoring for Avaloren. Not trying to be snippy but there has been a constant demand for old areas to be revisited- one of the biggest gripes of the exploring books is they don't update lore (besides the Northrend one, for whatever reason).

New players will play regardless because new content. But I think overall there is less desire for more Khaz Algars (especially after essentially three of them back to back) hence why Metzen pivoted to two unvisited old lore areas and Quelthalas.

A pivot so quick that it is jarring, even.

[Makorus]

I would argue far more than those clamoring for Avaloren. Not trying to be snippy but there has been a constant demand for old areas to be revisited- one of the biggest gripes of the exploring books is they don't update lore (besides the Northrend one, for whatever reason).

New players will play regardless because new content. But I think overall there is less desire for more Khaz Algars (especially after essentially three of them back to back) hence why Metzen pivoted to Quelthalas.

There's a difference between adding old zones as expansion zones i.e. as one of the four Midnight zones, or as part of an Evergreen world revisit.

You aren't really moving the areas forward, you are just forcing them into the current expansion, and you are creating the exact same problem we have right now with Cataclysm zones. "Exploring does kind of move zones forward, but it essentially boils down to "Problem solved " which makes it very hard to keep them relevant for Midnight other than "and the void attacked here", at which point, it doesn't really matter what zone it is.

[Sondrelk]

The biggest issue with Northern EK is the fact that it's extremely boring and most likely not even relevant?

Like, what's even the point of Plaguelands cleansed? Who cares about Hillsbrad? Same with Silverpine, or Alterac.

It really sounds like a case of memberberries rather than wanting them to add zones that are going to be relevant or have an interesting story to tell.

idk, I feel like adding "place, but void" simply because it's an old zone is a bit... lazy.

Yes, it is memberries, but so is Quel'thalas. And importantly, none of the stories likely to be in a Northern EK expansion is really any different from a pure Quel'thalas one.

You still have trolls feuding, possibly over the corpse of Kith'ix below Zul'Aman.
You still have Silvermoon remembering Arthas and the plague of Undeath.
You still have the part where you need to gather allies to prevent the Sun well from being taken by the Void.

The main difference is just that instead of the trolls feuding in just Zul'Aman and nearby areas. You have several Amani trolls tribes in places like Jintha'alor and Arathi Highlands, with Zul'Aman as a focal point.
You have the part where you remember Arthas. Except instead of focusing just on the dead scar and Deatholme, you go to Stratholme as well.
Rather than going to Elf town #4 to rally the banners, you help the Wildhammer clan in the Hinterlands briefly so they can spare the extra manpower.

Really, its exactly the same story, just with more variety.
Is the Plaguelands necessary? No. But really nothing is.
There is no massive difference between the Amani Highlands being made into a massive zone. Or the Amani Highlands being a newly added sub zone to Qul'thalas alongside all the other iconic Troll locations. Both would be expanded for the simple reason that nostalgia sells, and players want it.

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There's a difference between adding old zones as expansion zones i.e. as one of the four Midnight zones, or as part of an Evergreen world revisit.

You aren't really moving the areas forward, you are just forcing them into the current expansion, and you are creating the exact same problem we have right now with Cataclysm zones. "Exploring does kind of move zones forward, but it essentially boils down to "Problem solved " which makes it very hard to keep them relevant for Midnight other than "and the void attacked here", at which point, it doesn't really matter what zone it is.

There is also a difference between moving the zones forward by making them relevant. And never getting a revamp at all.