The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Luck4]

What speculation????

The Dark Below is quite literally a Destiny thing

Back in the day, people delved deep into that title because Mists of Pandaria expansion was given entirely away nearly three mounts before the announcement because someone found the trademark. That's probably why so many people believed it was real.

I still have good memories from that time:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoQFAjwgojc

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I was sure 6.0 would be an Azshara expansion that would lead us into Legion expansions, but we got time-traveling orcs instead.

LMAO!

[Paula Deen]

What speculation????

The Dark Below is quite literally a Destiny thing

Im sorry I meant to quote a post. I was referring to a post a page or so back with a new ecodome datamined. Reference Karesh.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

It wouldn't make sense to leave her behind for the entirety of the expansion. Blizzard learned this lesson the hard way when they sent us into the Shadowlands. There's just not enough "Warcraft" in there. Players lose interest.

But as part of a patch, just to let us witness what's at stake if we don't beat back the Void? Maybe!

I'm honestly inclined to contest that. I think that the issue with Shadowlands wasn't the cosmic scope—I recall cosmic plots used to actually be well-liked—but the incredibly poor execution of its core concepts. Similarly, although you are totally right that Shadowlands had a major issue of not feeling much like Warcraft, I don't think that's as applicable to K'aresh because it would be more strongly grounded in preexisting lore. The ethereals and the Void have been features of the lore for some time, while the races of the Shadowlands and the Jailer were invented on the spot for Shadowlands.

[Nymrohd]

Don't get your hopes up for K'aresh as the setting for 11.0, is my advice.

We may go there as part of patch content, for a raid or megadungeon perhaps. Think Argus, not Outland.

The planet is thought to be destroyed, and even if some of it remains, it is likely a hellhole. Perhaps an ecodome can provide a cool way for us to experience a zone or two. Maybe some survivors are trying to resettle a corner of the planet. But overall, the Ethereals spread across the Twisting Nether for a reason.

The Shadow (Void) expansions are largely about Azeroth. I mean Cataclysm, Dragonflight, and 11.0.

It wouldn't make sense to leave her behind for the entirety of the expansion. Blizzard learned this lesson the hard way when they sent us into the Shadowlands. There's just not enough "Warcraft" in there. Players lose interest.

But as part of a patch, just to let us witness what's at stake if we don't beat back the Void? Maybe!

The issue with Shadowlands was not that it was away from Azeroth. It was that it did not interact with Azeroth adequately. WoD did that even worse. A version of Shadowlands that had leaned into the fan service far harder (some ideas I've seen in this forum; have named Mawsworn be created using souls harvested by Frostmourne, have us interact with Scourge Invasions on Azeroth or even have Torghast chains grabbing parts of Azeroth into Torghast and obviously have us interact with way more dead people important to the lore) would likely have been somewhat more successful (the lack of content would still have messed it up ofc).

So if they do decide to do an expansion away from Azeroth all they need to do is find a way to make it engaging for us by better connecting it to the world and people we know. Not just do their favourite 4-5 NPCs but the world itself. Start with the obvious; use every named ethereal we have interacted with. Tie in a couple of areas in Azeroth or Outland to the plot. Maybe update the Netherstorm visually and use it as a patch zone?

[Worldshaper]

I'm honestly inclined to contest that. I think that the issue with Shadowlands wasn't the cosmic scope—I recall cosmic plots used to actually be well-liked—but the incredibly poor execution of its core concepts. Similarly, although you are totally right that Shadowlands had a major issue of not feeling much like Warcraft, I don't think that's as applicable to K'aresh because it would be more strongly grounded in preexisting lore. The ethereals and the Void have been features of the lore for some time, while the races of the Shadowlands and the Jailer were invented on the spot for Shadowlands.

You make a fair point. Indeed, K'aresh does feel a little bit more rooted in old lore than the in-game version of Shadowlands does.

That said, I think we'd still venture into very dangerous territory in leaving Azeroth behind for an entire expansion that's meant to be about Azeroth's corruption and purification.

Current story clues suggest Azshara is about to arrive to rule Azeroth once the world-soul has "awakened".

I suppose in theory, they could send us to K'aresh for 11.0 if the Void-invasion of Azeroth happens already in 10.3 or 11.0. A sort of desperate measure for the heroes of Azeroth, fleeing off-world through magical portals created by an unlikely ally, the Ethereals.

We could then play through K'aresh for a year or so, letting us draw a bunch of parallels between their world and ours, recruit new allies in the fight against the Void, and learn the importance of truly saving your world from the Void.

Then in 11.3 or so, we'd return home to take our world back. That event could restore Azeroth and bring about a World Revamp.

I will say, that whole this sounds OK on paper, they would have to so something very special with K'aresh for me to last more than a year there. We've just gotten back to Azeroth with Dragonflight, and if anything I would like an even more "grounded" expansion in 11.0, not more cosmic travel with Twisting Nether-inspired transmog etc.

I think cosmic content is best enjoyed in small doses, and in the background. Like, finding Titan discs in Uldaman or discovering the ancient Titan city of Ulduar.

Another point against K'aresh is the trilogy of expansions theory.

In the Burning Crusade, Blizzard set the tone for WoD and Legion by sending us to Outland. That trilogy very much incorporated the idea of travelling the Twisting Nether to worlds conquered by the Legion.

In Wrath of the Lich King, we ventured to the land of the dead, as we thought of it at the time, by visiting Northrend. BfA then sent us to two continents which can dedinitely be described as "realms of death" if you consider their stories. From death worship in Zandalar, to the Proudmoore family legacy in Kul Tiras and the Drust themes of Drustvar. Shadowlands then pushed this concept further by expanding what the "Shadowlands" are, and sending us there.

Cataclysm and Dragonflight, however, haven't really been about visiting "the realms of Shadow/Void". Instead, we visited places around Azeroth closely affiliated with the elements or the Dragons, which are assaulted by the Void and its minions. From Deepholme, Vashj'ir and the Twilight Highlands to the Dragon Isles.

So 11.0 should follow this pattern. While it's not impossible K'aresh fits, I think it's more likely we'll either just use a revamped Azeroth as our new continent, or a collection of new zones that are either heavily corrupted by the Void, or affiliated with the elements.

Remember the old comic in which Anduin (old and beardy) travels with Velen into the Twisting Nether to fight the Void? Hypothetically, this could be the start of 11.3 as we have an aged Anduin back from the Shadowlands, going to K'aresh to finally fight the Void once we've cleared it out from Azeroth.

10.3 - All eyes shall open. We learn of a betrayal and our defensive of Azeroth has failed.

11.0 - The Shadow is unleashed upon our world, coming not from above but from below. Azeroth Awakens, currently corrupted. We need to prevent her from physically breaking out of the planet as a Dark Titan, and cleanse her corruption. The elements are in turmoil, and Queen Azshara returns to rule Azeroth in its corrupted state. Thrall returns to guide us.

11.1 - We calm the elements alongside Thrall.

11.2 - We defeat Queen Azshara's forces and the Void on Azeroth. She flees back behind the Umbral Veil from whence she came.

11.3 - We travel to K'aresh to put an end to the Void's current effort to conquer Azeroth. Aszhara finally dies.

11.3.5 - Epilogue and all is well.

12.0 - Pirate adventure across the sea.

[Xilurm]

The Dark Below...

What is this? 2012?

[Raetary]

The Dark Below...

What is this? 2012?

Guess this confirms Murozond as the final boss.
The timeline is clearly shattered.

[RahEndymion]

Karesh could very well just not be a void expansion though, in the same way that BFA was not a 'void' expansion even though we dealt with N'zoth as the primary villain and Azshara clearly has shenanigans that are void related.

If K'aresh / Ethereals are the focus of 11.0 it wouldn't surprise me if we found out Xal had been running around the twisting nether, between the various Ethereal bastions made out of the remnants of K'aresh, looking for some sort of mcguffin that she needs to achieve some sort of questionable motive re: void lords / old gods.

This would ground the plot in a more relative narrative, interacting with various factions of Ethereals and other species, allow for an Azshara resurgence or such on Azeroth in a patch zone or something, and set up Xal or whoever she's running to / from as a final villain while also teeing up nicely for a true void expansion in the future.

This is all just idle speculation obviously but I don't see why a K'aresh expansion would have to be THE void expansion under any circumstances. As mentioned by others, you could just reverse the plot I mentioned and have K'aresh as a patch zone in a Azerothian Xal treasure hunt.

Who knows.

[Chickat]

I love the idea of enormous sea creatures prowling the seas surrounding Avaloren being the reason no one’s found it.

You could have one of the races that make up the Heretics be either an aquatic race that controls the creatures or work in harmony with them. Or it could be race that isn’t aquatic but has an affinity with water. Either way, this race could be the bulk of Avaloren’s navy or whatever.

I just really want the Heretics to be a coalition of Avaloren’s native races as opposed to one singular race.

Would also be cool if there were Giant Krakken the size of Supremus in the water. If your fatigue runs out you dont die to dot damage, the krakken grabs you and eats you.

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I think Tyr has end boss potential. Maybe we'll get more of a feel for that in the next .5 patch with the storyline. I would agree with Odyn if he had been present in anything other than that text in Uldaman.

I think there's a very small possibility it could also be corrupted Alexstraza, although I'm certain her 'corruption' will be in titan keepers eyes only and mainly metaphorical. Part of me wonders if Iridikron might force Galakronds absorbed hunger into Alexstraza, but there's 0 buildup on a replacement, and I doubt anybody would be satisfied with her not having a replacement, or her not really dying from that. Both are very anticlimactic in my eyes.

Fyrakk and Vyranoth combined could pose a worthy end boss with better buildup, but if they are going that route they haven't really done it justice so far.

After this patch I get the feeling Murozond will be re-occuring in the future but not an immediate last boss, but I could be completely wrong. Having the end boss be something we've fought prior seems off, and I may be wrong but I don't remember people loving that Archimonde was last boss due to the whole 1 legion thing. Although WoD was very heavily cut in fairness. I feel that Murozond is confusing people enough as it is and they may step away from it again rather than attempting to explain it all for certain.

Tyr is currently my pick, but that may change with coming patches.

IF we do fight Tyr, I hope we spare him and he joins the cause of mortals/dragons. Hes really cool, and it would be shame to kill him imo.

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The two Incarnates being the end bosses would be well lesser then other endbosses if that is to be the case.

Incarnates are as strong as Fully powered Aspects. Two at the same time is a bigger threat than Garrosh at least, and probably comparable to Deathwing, Lich King, Archimonde, and KilJaeden.

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The Dark Below. They have the trademark.

They have teased several times something dark being down there. Could also square away a kind of revamp that way with entrances everywhere. Would explain the rush to perfect the Zaralek Tech. Would explain the Earthen Odyn mentioned.

Wasnt that a Destiny 1 Expansion when Actiblizz partnered with Bungie?

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Friendly reminder that a world revamp doesn't have to be the expansion's main focus.

It is fully possible that Blizzard has a "B" team working on the side to remake assets and rebuild Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms, while the "A" team builds new expansions.

A world revamp could launch with 10.3, 11.0, 11.3, 12.0, or anywhere in-between those patches, as a free update to all players. While the underlying cause of the revamp might have something to do with the expansion's theme (for example, Azeroth being corrupted or purged from her corruption), the story of the expansion itself doesn't have to revolve around the revamp.

We could be going to a new "continent", and also get a revamp.

That continent could be Avaloren, a vast landmass on the other side of the world.
It could be a collection of tropical islands somewhere far out at sea.
Or it may be a huge system of underground caverns, including underwater zones, in a new domain for Queen Azshara.

Tbh, The main content of patches, or off patches at least could be zone updates.

I can see a scenario where they take 3-4 years to update it all. Zone or two per patch as side content. Kinda like Warfronts.

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https://www.wowhead.com/npc=209592/eco-dome-hole-large

Added 10.1.7

I swear everyday I'm more and more convinced that 11.0 is karesh as the staging ground for the light vs void war.

Also....

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Melinor

What if 10.3 is Karesh leading into a voidVlight xpac?

[Worldshaper]

Karesh could very well just not be a void expansion though, in the same way that BFA was not a 'void' expansion even though we dealt with N'zoth as the primary villain and Azshara clearly has shenanigans that are void related.

If K'aresh / Ethereals are the focus of 11.0 it wouldn't surprise me if we found out Xal had been running around the twisting nether, between the various Ethereal bastions made out of the remnants of K'aresh, looking for some sort of mcguffin that she needs to achieve some sort of questionable motive re: void lords / old gods.

This would ground the plot in a more relative narrative, interacting with various factions of Ethereals and other species, allow for an Azshara resurgence or such on Azeroth in a patch zone or something, and set up Xal or whoever she's running to / from as a final villain while also teeing up nicely for a true void expansion in the future.

This is all just idle speculation obviously but I don't see why a K'aresh expansion would have to be THE void expansion under any circumstances. As mentioned by others, you could just reverse the plot I mentioned and have K'aresh as a patch zone in a Azerothian Xal treasure hunt.

Who knows.

In Legion, we didn't destroy Disorder, but we put a stop to the Burning Legion and defeated its current figurehead (Sargeras). Azeroth's world-soul is saved from destruction.

In Shadowlands, we didn't destroy Death, but we put a stop to the forces of Death and defeated its current figurehead (the Jailer). Azeroth's world-soul is saved from destruction.

In 11.0, we won't destroy Shadow (The Void), but we put a stop to the Old Gods and defeat its current figurehead (Queen Azshara, Xal'atath aka the Harbinger, and possibly N’zoth inside the dagger). Azeroth's world-soul is saves from destruction.

These three cosmic forces won't go away. But we will open up a new book in the lore, unlike anything we've ever seen before.

[Chickat]

While it is peculiar, one thing that comes to mind is if there's another mage tower-like thing coming (as those class sets/weapons seems to imply), they may be involved in quests with it too.

Well, the updated Roadmap did pin Open world Challenges for 10.2. Could be a group version of the Mage tower, although I dont know how that would work exactly.

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Don't get your hopes up for K'aresh as the setting for 11.0, is my advice.

We may go there as part of patch content, for a raid or megadungeon perhaps. Think Argus, not Outland.

The planet is thought to be destroyed, and even if some of it remains, it is likely a hellhole. Perhaps an ecodome can provide a cool way for us to experience a zone or two. Maybe some survivors are trying to resettle a corner of the planet. But overall, the Ethereals spread across the Twisting Nether for a reason.

The Shadow (Void) expansions are largely about Azeroth. I mean Cataclysm, Dragonflight, and 11.0.

It wouldn't make sense to leave her behind for the entirety of the expansion. Blizzard learned this lesson the hard way when they sent us into the Shadowlands. There's just not enough "Warcraft" in there. Players lose interest.

But as part of a patch, just to let us witness what's at stake if we don't beat back the Void? Maybe!

You may be right, but if they wanted to do a whole expansion they 100% could. Think Outland.

[Nymrohd]

You may be right, but if they wanted to do a whole expansion they 100% could. Think Outland.

To be honest, I always felt Outland was as much a part of the Warcraft story as Azeroth is. Heck it has a bigger presence in the Warcraft story than Kalimdor.

[Hitei]

K'aresh is prime expansion territory. It is in a very similar position to Pandaria pre-MoP.

[Lolites]

The infinite flight story is done FOR NOW, as blizz stated.

i believe they said its done for DRAGONFLIGHT, so Murozond is probably not imminent

[Nymrohd]

K'aresh is prime expansion territory. It is in a very similar position to Pandaria pre-MoP.

How would we integrate K'aresh lore in Azeroth's story in the same way they did with Pandaria?

[Lolites]

And fated raids are stupid and a crutch for a lack of content

yep, we should go back to what was before fated raids - LONG ASS CONTENT DROUGHT
why do some people tread fated raids as if we got them instead of new raids, we got it instead of NOTHING ffs...

[Worldshaper]

K'aresh is prime expansion territory. It is in a very similar position to Pandaria pre-MoP.

Except... it was destroyed.

K'aresh is best compared to Argus, except Argus had way more significance.

[RahEndymion]

I genuinely still believe that cosmic forces will take a backseat in the next expansion, K'aresh or otherwise.

There has been far too much build up and bread crumbing regarding the nightsqual, Avaloren and other side of Azeroth etc. I think any hints in 10.2 will really be the most telling. IF they continue the 10.0.5 hints (like the Tel'Abim ship) then I will firmly believe that we have our next expansion.

Do we know if there were many hints or easter eggs in Zaralekk? From my recollection it seemed to be pretty much devoid of anything interesting in the lore / speculation department. Hopefully they don't continue that trend moving forward.

[micwini]

No shot they are going off-dimension or off-world again so soon after the feedback they got (and acknowledged) about previous expansions being to focused on "cosmic wumbo jumbo".

[Hitei]

Except... it was destroyed.

K'aresh is best compared to Argus, except Argus had way more significance.

Yes. For like the billionth time: So was Draenor. So was Zandalar. So were the Broken Isles. But we still had BC, BfA and Legion.

This is a non-argument. We know, objectively, that K'aresh wasn't atomized or fully destroyed in any capacity--Ethereals are still on it in some capacity they can actively go to and from it. It exists. It was destroyed in nearly the exact same way that Draenor was originally destroyed: ripped apart by the raw magical output of a vast number of portals to other planes. The Ethereals fought back against Dimensius AFTER using their new more powerful forms to fight against the void for years until he called in even more void forces to force them back. What were they fighting on if not the remains of the planet? Where were they forced to flee into the twisting nether from if not the remains of the planet?

This is Hawaii:



It is a (series of) insignificant pebble(s) on the surface of our planet.

This is that same Hawaii, specifically the 4th largest island in the chain, Kauai:



Even a small sliver of a planet is all you need for an entire expansion landmass, and in all likelihood, K'aresh is probably hundreds of thousands of massive chunks of the planet. It is perfectly valid as an expansion location. Any pieces of it are almost certainly larger locales than the small islands of Kul Tiras, Zandalar, and the Broken Isles.