The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Well Done Steak]

Prospects of a 6th flight are interesting but I feel like a light-themed flight that was centered around protection would basically cannibalize what little the red flight already have that's unique about them.

I think Its purpose would be a lot more complex if Tyr hid out dralad on purpose.

I'm thinking he's the reason why the mother oathstone failed, because we haven't reactivated the silver oathstone.

Maybe his purpose is to grant the aspects their powers back?

Or maybe he's some sort of fail safe if the world soul was corrupted by void.

[Khaza-R]

I think Its purpose would be a lot more complex if Tyr hid out dralad on purpose.

I'm thinking he's the reason why the mother oathstone failed, because we haven't reactivated the silver oathstone.

Maybe his purpose is to grant the aspects their powers back?

Or maybe he's some sort of fail safe if the world soul was corrupted by void.

Or maybe they're devoid of free will and exist only to service the titans directive. More like automations than living beings.

That would certainly raise some dissension between the Aspects and Tyr.

[Well Done Steak]

Or maybe they're devoid of free will and exist only to service the titans directive. More like automations than living beings.

That would certainly raise some dissension between the Aspects and Tyr.

I get the vibe that Tyr isn't down with this 100% based on his letters to Odyn

But I can see how the aspects would feel that way which is what's probably going to trigger the true Murozond transformation after Noz realizes his nothing more than a tool.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I get the vibe that Tyr isn't down with this 100% based on his letters to Odyn

But I can see how the aspects would feel that way which is what's probably going to trigger the true Murozond transformation after Noz realizes his nothing more than a tool.

It would be more interesting IMO the Titan constructs/titanforged have a bit of a civil war. Mortal friendly life keepers,watchers vs Odyn and just "absolute servitude and ruthless Order". Odyn probably would enjoy seeing Murozond "SEE THOSE DRAGONS WEREN'T A GOOD IDEA"

[Murlocos]

You won't escape Progenitor lore

Nonetheless we challenge fate itself Danuser

[KayRule]

There's going to be a proper violet flight established with the stormdrakes leading

[Well Done Steak]

It would be more interesting IMO the Titan constructs/titanforged have a bit of a civil war. Mortal friendly life keepers,watchers vs Odyn and just "absolute servitude and ruthless Order". Odyn probably would enjoy seeing Murozond "SEE THOSE DRAGONS WEREN'T A GOOD IDEA"

Something like that is what I think 10.3 will be about

[Skildar]

Iridikron has been clear that in his view, the adventurer shouldn't be taken for a fool. He's been searching to boost his team ever since his release instead of facing us head on. If his goal is to behead the titans then his best shot at doing so is to convince the adventurer to face the titans.

I don't know what the harbinger's gambit will be to provoke a direct intervention from the titans but then I'm convinced that Aman'thul and his brethren will get our attention and we will see them as a threat instead of our guardians.

[Hitei]

Iridikron has been clear that in his view, the adventurer shouldn't be taken for a fool. He's been searching to boost his team ever since his release instead of facing us head on. If his goal is to behead the titans then his best shot at doing so is to convince the adventurer to face the titans.

I don't know what the harbinger's gambit will be to provoke a direct intervention from the titans but then I'm convinced that Aman'thul and his brethren will get our attention and we will see them as a threat instead of our guardians.

The Pantheon has never been our guardians outside of the brief window in Antorus in which we were directly helping their cause and represented their only chance of stopping Sargeras' plot.

They have been a direct threat since Wrath established that they were 100% totally okay with just vaporizing the entire planet, and all sentient life on it, if the planet got even a little bit exposed to minor, entirely fixable corruption.

[Cheezits]

I get the vibe that Tyr isn't down with this 100% based on his letters to Odyn

But I can see how the aspects would feel that way which is what's probably going to trigger the true Murozond transformation after Noz realizes his nothing more than a tool.

I think the Tyr vs Odyn beef is a red herring. In the Uldaman book, Tyr vouches for free will for the dragons which puts him at odds with Odyn. This was prelaunch and set up the idea of "Odyn bad Tyr good".

HOWEVER, as the story goes along we are mostly seeing that TYR's machinations are shady or, at the very least, are hidden to the dragons (vault quest, silver scale). We also get a very skewed perception of him (aspects love him, Khoranos and the Tyrguard venerate him) that just begs to be flipped on its head. And this has already been set in stone with the fact that Alex will "betray him" (unless she ACTUALLY gets corrupted, which I really doubt).

I think the twist, if it exists, is that Tyr will eventually side with Odyn after all. Maybe when he comes back, finds the aspects have actually all been corrupted (besides Alex), and then Alex does something that he considers a betrayal.

[Revamp Man]

I saw this on reddit, apparently that time travel inn thing some people are wondering if it hints toward anything:



Personally I think its just a little tease at how it could be but isn't (after all all the time rift stuff is all "what if" stuff), but who knows.

Omg I'd love that
It's the black empire expansion in all it's glory

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I think the Tyr vs Odyn beef is a red herring. In the Uldaman book, Tyr vouches for free will for the dragons which puts him at odds with Odyn. This was prelaunch and set up the idea of "Odyn bad Tyr good".

HOWEVER, as the story goes along we are mostly seeing that TYR's machinations are shady or, at the very least, are hidden to the dragons (vault quest, silver scale). We also get a very skewed perception of him (aspects love him, Khoranos and the Tyrguard venerate him) that just begs to be flipped on its head. And this has already been set in stone with the fact that Alex will "betray him" (unless she ACTUALLY gets corrupted, which I really doubt).

I think the twist, if it exists, is that Tyr will eventually side with Odyn after all. Maybe when he comes back, finds the aspects have actually all been corrupted (besides Alex), and then Alex does something that he considers a betrayal.

He's gonna come back
Wonder why all life wasn't ordered like the aspects
Try to turn all proto-dragon beings into something ordered
Get defeated by us
We realize we weren't always the heroes
Xal drains him

[Catastrophy349]

Maybe unpopular opinion, but I love the cosmology chart and cosmology lore. I just want it to be set up better before going head first, which it seems like they are doing a bit better now than with BFA---->SL.

[Revamp Man]

I can't wait to see Amirdrassil grow up... the Green flight is definitely my favorite (Night Elves too <3).



Don't worry, it's not an unpopular opinion... i love too.

SL was just weird
The writing team couldn't stick to one thing and instead we got like 5 different explanations for the eternal ones

[ChronoSul]

If true, can't wait to hear how their retroactive and nonsensical explanation as to why there are only seven seats in the Seat of the Pantheon.

Easy Make her Like Hestia from greek myth who while part of the Olympian gods did not have a throne on Mount Olympus. Given the little lore we got for her we know personality wise is actually similar to Hestia so its not that far fetched

[Catastrophy349]

I would love to see more of the cosmic forces lore and stuff happen in game. However, it needs to be properly set up. If 9.0 set up the SL, then 10.0 we went into the SL, I think it could have worked.

[Luck4]

I would love to see more of the cosmic forces lore and stuff happen in game. However, it needs to be properly set up. If 9.0 set up the SL, then 10.0 we went into the SL, I think it could have worked.

As someone that dislikes cosmic planes exploration (not forces), I think they could work if they were presented by playable races' perspectives and inner conflicts; let me explain:

In WC3 we learned about the Burning Legion and Scourge through Humans/Orcs/Elves' eyes, not through Demons/Undeads; the plague and the legion invasion started in their homeland, and the turmoil created the reason to push forward at the same time that iconic characters from the playable factions were being developed to take a role from the enemies perspective, such as Illidan (Night Elf) and Arthas (Human), that's why WC3 is so iconic.

That's what I think WoW is missing recently, build-up. The only story that I liked in Dragonflight is the Black Dragonflight resolution because it's the only story that's following a great arc that started back in Vanilla and gave more context to characters such as Sabelian introduced in Burning Crusade, Wrathion introduced in Cataclysm, Ebyssian in Legion, and ofc Deathwing (Neltharion), but other than that, the Incarnates/Primalist plot feels weak as most of SL was... I think if Blizzard had used Twilight's Hammer instead of this new faction to give more context to these Incarnates, the story would improve a lot.

Shadowlands announcement, for instance, I think would've been a lot more exciting if in BFA we had learned more about Zovaal and the Maw after 8.2, and instead of fighting N'zoth and the Black Empire in 8.3, we could have fought a reformed Scourge with forces mostly from Shadowlands led by Sylvanas and Nathanos, and an empowered version of Nathanos could've been the last boss, after defeating him we would learn through the cinematic that Sylvanas went to Icecrown to open the rift.

For Shadowlands expansion itself, I think the covenants and its zones felt too out of place with so few Azerothian characters, so instead of having only a very few characters as we saw in most zones and covenants, I think the perfect scenario would be having many more Azerothian characters, but as ghosts to keep their aesthetic and resemblance, such as Kael'thas/Garrosh alongside most of their followers in Revendreth, Gronmash/Vashj/Kel'thuzad alongside most of their followers in Maldraxxus, Ysera/Caerne and most Night Elves, Tauren, and Trolls that died before BFA in Ardenweald, Uther/Tyrion/Rakeesh(Velen's Son)/Anasterian Sunstrider/Lirath Windrunner and many others that had tragic death before BFA in Bastion, and in the Maw, we would have, just for nostalgic sake, some Arthas/Lich King followers.

But sadly we only got a few known faces here and there and a ton of stories about characters nobody gives a s**t about.

- -

I'm 99% sure 11.0 isn't a World Revamp at this point, so my last hope is that 11.0 focuses on the playable race's lore and how they're going to handle the new threat, instead of helping foreigns and seeing all the plot from their perspective, as we got in Shadowlands and Dragonflight.

[Worldshaper]

I'm 99% sure 11.0 isn't a World Revamp at this point, so my last hope is that 11.0 focuses on the playable race's lore and how they're going to handle the new threat, instead of helping foreigns, solving their problems, and seeing the plot resolution from their perspective, as we got in Shadowlands and Dragonflight.

Interesting. What makes you think so? :-)

[Luck4]

Interesting. What makes you think so? :-)

The story direction mostly, but also the lack of data mining hints that couldn't be mistaken as "something else" (Trading Post/New Azerothian Continent). Because as it stands now, the only stuff that could indicate a World Revamp are the Human buildings added in 9.1; everything else: the HD gear, the ships, and a bunch of other models could fit in the "something else" category.

There's also the deja-vu feeling from past expansion speculations. Every time since the 8.0 thread, we thought the next expansion would be a World Revamp early on, but as we move close to the announcement, the hints/interviews/"leaks" make us change to a soft revamp, then partial, then just a few zones, until the reveal came and we have nothing at all.

[Worldshaper]

The story direction mostly, but also the lack of data mining hints that couldn't be mistaken as "something else" (Trading Post/New Azerothian Continent). Because as it stands now, the only stuff that could indicate a World Revamp are the Human buildings added in 9.1; everything else: the HD gear, the ships, and a bunch of other models could fit in the "something else" category.

There's also the deja-vu feeling from past expansion speculations. Every time since the 8.0 thread, we thought the next expansion would be a World Revamp early on, but as we move close to the announcement, the hints/interviews/"leaks" make us change to a soft revamp, then partial, then just a few zones, until the reveal came and we have nothing at all.

Fair enough. I will admit that we've all been here before, and it's not a guarantee Blizzard understands how important this stuff is to a lot of players.

Even if they do, they might not be able to get such an idea approved by the executives.

Character customisation is one such example, where players just keep begging Blizzard to put together a dedicated team for a continuous stream of new options. It seems like an easy win, but they still haven't done it.

That said...

We shouldn't just ignore all the evidence we do possess. Some kind of a revamp seems likely, whether large or small.

• Why would Blizzard update so many old assets, if they're only meant for some small content update or questline in the old world? We've had content in the old world before, and they never went to the same length in terms of updating buildings, NPC guards, ships, etc.
• Considering Dragonflight and 11.0 are sequels to Cataclysm, why would they omit such a major component of that expansion? Basically all the rest is here, from the dragons and the elements to the Void.
• If 11.0, as in-game events suggest, involves Queen Azshara returning to "rule over the land, sky and sea", it makes sense that the expansion will be set on Azeroth. Not only that, but the story seems like it'll involve a major event transpiring on Azeroth with the world-soul.
• We don't have any obvious locations to go visit next. Avaloren seems like a breadcrumb for future content at best. K'aresh is more of a patch zone. Undermine and various unexplored little islands or locations are pretty scattered and few in number.

[Hitei]

We shouldn't just ignore all the evidence we do possess. Some kind of a revamp seems likely, whether large or small.

It's not being ignored, there 's just lots of holes in the "evidence"

New buildings and creature models get added all the time, it doesn't mean anything. We got new vanilla human guard towers six years ago, but the past three expansions haven't been revamps, even if the updated models are part of a long term plan to update things, there's nothing about that to suggest that 11.0 is going to be a revamp expansion. It could be 13.0. It could be that 11.2 graphically updates a couple zones like 8.1 did.

Dragonflight and 11.0 aren't sequels to Cataclysm and I wish you'd stop just treating this theory as factual. Dragonflight is, at best, a spritual successor to the theme of Cataclysm. There is nothing to suggest 11.0 will have anything at all to do with it. This logic isn't even internally consistent. If anything, Dragonflight should be the revamp because it's the one that mimics Cata.

Six of the nine expansions are set on Azeroth and involve a major event and a villain who wants to take over. Nothing about this is evidence for an expansion. The world soul being important and potentially waking up has been an ongoing plot point for three expansions, three expansions that weren't revamps.

Avaloren isn't any more "maybe one day" than crap like the heritage armor quests. K'aresh and Undermine aren't any more "patch zone" than any other expansion locale.


There's very little actual evidence for a revamp coming, and several large pieces of evidence against it: That we know they plan on making Dragonflight the new leveling experience; that they bothered to put effort into a really minor graphical update of Darkshore and Arathi in BfA--something that doesn't make much sense if they've been working for several expansions now on an actual revamp; that the "hints" about storylines moving forward are all shit that isn't going to happen anytime soon (for example, seeds to regrow Durotar were only just planted with the explicit statement that the forest returning would take time.

It's effectively no different than any other potential expansion concept.