The War Within 11.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Enrif]

Why would they do "Hero Classes" (that name is already taken, by the way) when their entire thing for years has been to focus on class identity? This system would completely go against that.

When legion came, blizz ripped the band aid of artifacts. Doomhammer, Ashbringer, Frostmourne (in a way). So i could see them doing something like that again for Midnight, but we already got legendary items. But we have people like Thrall (warrior + shaman), Anduin (priest + warrior/paladin), Alleria/Tyrande (hunter +priest). So, i can absolutely see it. Especially if it is just hero talents plus

[Hitei]

Multiclassing didn't even work when it was a single symbiosis spell. They're not gonna do it en masse.

[Enrif]

Multiclassing didn't even work when it was a single symbiosis spell. They're not gonna do it en masse.

symbiosis had other issues, like you didn't had the symbiosis skills unless there was a druid.

Think of it as hero talents flavored as other classes

[Wyrt]

When legion came, blizz ripped the band aid of artifacts. Doomhammer, Ashbringer, Frostmourne (in a way). So i could see them doing something like that again for Midnight, but we already got legendary items. But we have people like Thrall (warrior + shaman), Anduin (priest + warrior/paladin), Alleria/Tyrande (hunter +priest). So, i can absolutely see it. Especially if it is just hero talents plus

Paladin is already priest+warrior. I don't know, it'd be weird to introduce multiclassing when one of the classes is already multiclassed.

Edit: said the wrong thing.

[Samin]

Paladin is already priest+paladin. I don't know, it'd be weird to introduce multiclassing when one of the classes is already multiclassed.

In no sense of the meaning is Paladin multiclassed with Priest.

I mean you really get into a recursion problem anyway If Paladin is Priest+Paladin that actually means Paladin is Priest+(Priest+Paladin) which obviously means Paladin is actually Priest+(Priest+(Priest+Paladin))... and if you follow that you would imply that Paladin is basically only Priest.

[Enrif]

Paladin is already priest+paladin. I don't know, it'd be weird to introduce multiclassing when one of the classes is already multiclassed.

Not really weird. In D&D you could be a Paladin that multiclasses with a Cleric if you wanted, they are distinct identities at this point. And the more i think about the possiblities of a multiclassing system, the more hyped i am. It could have soo many cool ideas, AND could cover so many class fantasies that are not available right now. Runemaster, take Monk with mutliclass into death knight. Spellbreaker, Warrior with mage. Warden, Rogue with hunter (i guess). Blademaster, Warrior with rogue. Shadow Hunter, Hunter with Shaman. Inquisitor, Rogue with Priest. And many more.

[Wyrt]

In no sense of the meaning is Paladin multiclassed with Priest.

I mean you really get into a recursion problem anyway If Paladin is Priest+Paladin that actually means Paladin is Priest+Priest+Paladin which obviously means Paladin is actually Priest+Priest+Priest+Paladin... and if you follow that you would imply that Paladin is basically only Priest.

Sorry, I meant warrior, brain was thinking paladin so wrote paladin on accident.

[Pyrophax]

Why would they do "Hero Classes" (that name is already taken, by the way) when their entire thing for years has been to focus on class identity? This system would completely go against that.

The reason they did Hero Talents, and will continue to do so, is because they want to go even harder in exploring the various nuances of a particular class. Are you a Dark Ranger or a Packleader? Do you prefer Elune or Cenarius? Those are the interesting questions.

Not "do you want your Paladin do launch arcane bolts out of his eyes"?

But if I want my Paladin do launch arcane bolts out of his eyes?

[Hearthfinder]

When legion came, blizz ripped the band aid of artifacts. Doomhammer, Ashbringer, Frostmourne (in a way). So i could see them doing something like that again for Midnight, but we already got legendary items. But we have people like Thrall (warrior + shaman), Anduin (priest + warrior/paladin), Alleria/Tyrande (hunter +priest). So, i can absolutely see it. Especially if it is just hero talents plus

They don't need to rip any bandaids this time around. We're not in the WoD era.

True, TWW has recieved some criticism for its story and disjointed content but overall players seem pretty happy and excited.

Besides if it were "Hero Talents Plus," as you suggest, then I don't think they would be coming up with a different name for them. Especially one that's already taken. That's just confusing. They would simply present them as the new round of Hero Talents and motivate them by being magically enhanced from the Sunwell or the Arcane properties of Quel'Thalas.

- - - Updated - - -

But if I want my Paladin do launch arcane bolts out of his eyes?

Then you are welcome to play a custom server, I guess. I'm not saying customisation is a bad idea but I don't think Blizzard wants to dillute their class identities.

[phocks]

Played Rivals for a few hours with a former employee and bothered to ask a few things. Most of the talk was about the studio culture and a lot of this was second (now third) hand and paraphrased.

- New class for the trilogy was locked in on TLT a while ago. Last heard it wasn't finalized, but "99% sure it was tinker."
- Tinker's been on the list since "the very beginning." Kept getting put off because "they want the themes to line up."
- "The amount of prototyping is ridiculous." A whole team who just rig spells and fire up sandbox builds.
- Insane levels of middle management. Described a whole day of literally nothing but meetings.
- Culture is incredibly insular. Huge echo chamber effect. Says most of the leads either don't play games or only play WoW.
- Huge problem of "illusion of arrival." New hires show up, think stuff they work on will just magically be good because 'it's Blizzard.'
- Lots of talking about the rockstar culture. JAB was apparently a huge prick. Tried to own the vanilla WoW gaff for weeks, "absolutely insufferable."
- "All that and any mainstream media giving them shit and they're shook."
- Housing was greenlit after Animal Crossing's sales came up in a pitch.
- Talked about Ion not understanding how people like to play the game outside of raiding. "He thinks it's weird but he advocates for it anyway."
- Mentioned layoffs were to parallelize dev time. Housing got a new studio, also had a new studio purely for art.
- Every pitch has to have proper nouns. Account banks and account reps got pitched "hundreds of times" on their own. Wasn't until they said "Warbands" that it got greenlit.
- Art team wanted to do more character updates, kept getting deprioritized.
- New pitch was called "Roots" but wasn't sure the name stuck. HR asked if it could get changed right away.
- Describes it as picking a troll, where they're from on a map, what tribe, skinny or buff, then racials. Big excuse to do more character art and quests.
- Lots more on hiring practices. Huge reaction to scandals was purely out of fear of hiring for art. "They get kids right out of college, they're more plugged in."

[Enrif]

They don't need to rip any bandaids this time around. We're not in the WoD era.

True, TWW has recieved some criticism for its story and disjointed content but overall players seem pretty happy and excited.

Besides if it were "Hero Talents Plus," as you suggest, then I don't think they would be coming up with a different name for them. Especially one that's already taken. That's just confusing. They would simply present them as the new round of Hero Talents and motivate them by being magically enhanced from the Sunwell or the Arcane properties of Quel'Thalas.

Why can't they use that name? There is no rule in the universe that prevents them to use names in different ways.

We have currently Class Talents, Specialization Talents, and Hero Talents. And Hero Talents, are still very close to the class theme. But Hero Class Talents would be foreign to the class theme, so it could make sense to name them different to Hero Talents, even if they work the same. And as said before, the hero class label has lost all meaning meanwhile.

It could also be another talent tree, on top of hero talents. Though i would think THAT would be too much.

[Hearthfinder]

Why can't they use that name? There is no rule in the universe that prevents them to use names in different ways.

We have currently Class Talents, Specialization Talents, and Hero Talents. And Hero Talents, are still very close to the class theme. But Hero Class Talents would be foreign to the class theme, so it could make sense to name them different to Hero Talents, even if they work the same. And as said before, the hero class label has lost all meaning meanwhile.

It could also be another talent tree, on top of hero talents. Though i would think THAT would be too much.

That's not what it says, though. It says Hero Classes. That you combine two classes. Not Hero Class Talents.

Hero Classes are Death Knights and Demon Hunters.

[Enrif]

That's not what it says, though. It says Hero Classes. That you combine two classes. Not Hero Class Talents.

there is no detail HOW they are combined, is there?

[Wyrt]

- New pitch was called "Roots" but wasn't sure the name stuck. HR asked if it could get changed right away.

I love that the fake leaks are just plagiarizing each other. This is what? The 5th "leak" with this in it?

[Samin]

Played Rivals for a few hours with a former employee and bothered to ask a few things. Most of the talk was about the studio culture and a lot of this was second (now third) hand and paraphrased.

- New class for the trilogy was locked in on TLT a while ago. Last heard it wasn't finalized, but "99% sure it was tinker."
- Tinker's been on the list since "the very beginning." Kept getting put off because "they want the themes to line up."
- "The amount of prototyping is ridiculous." A whole team who just rig spells and fire up sandbox builds.
- Insane levels of middle management. Described a whole day of literally nothing but meetings.
- Culture is incredibly insular. Huge echo chamber effect. Says most of the leads either don't play games or only play WoW.
- Huge problem of "illusion of arrival." New hires show up, think stuff they work on will just magically be good because 'it's Blizzard.'
- Lots of talking about the rockstar culture. JAB was apparently a huge prick. Tried to own the vanilla WoW gaff for weeks, "absolutely insufferable."
- "All that and any mainstream media giving them shit and they're shook."
- Housing was greenlit after Animal Crossing's sales came up in a pitch.
- Talked about Ion not understanding how people like to play the game outside of raiding. "He thinks it's weird but he advocates for it anyway."
- Mentioned layoffs were to parallelize dev time. Housing got a new studio, also had a new studio purely for art.
- Every pitch has to have proper nouns. Account banks and account reps got pitched "hundreds of times" on their own. Wasn't until they said "Warbands" that it got greenlit.
- Art team wanted to do more character updates, kept getting deprioritized.
- New pitch was called "Roots" but wasn't sure the name stuck. HR asked if it could get changed right away.
- Describes it as picking a troll, where they're from on a map, what tribe, skinny or buff, then racials. Big excuse to do more character art and quests.
- Lots more on hiring practices. Huge reaction to scandals was purely out of fear of hiring for art. "They get kids right out of college, they're more plugged in."

I like the framing, not just the setup itself but the execution, it's believable because it's not just a hate-boner for Blizzard internals but again the framing basically excuses all of it anyway and then the content stuff just sprinkled in. It's not necessarily a new take, but a good execution.

[Nightshade711]

I don't see Blizzard ever allowing us to mix classes unless in a very specific time-limited gamemode tbh.
I can already imagine most people in PvP taking rogue as their second class for stealth.

[Hearthfinder]

there is no detail HOW they are combined, is there?

But it says "Hero Class," which is already in use.

Blizzard can always decide to repurpose the term if they feel like the old concept has done its thing and is no longer relevant, but even if they did this still goes against their Hero Talent bet and would confuse players a lot.

[huth]

I don't see Blizzard ever allowing us to mix classes unless in a very specific time-limited gamemode tbh.
I can already imagine most people in PvP taking rogue as their second class for stealth.

The sheer amount of potential for gamebreaker combos is way to high. And in the end everybody would just get railroaded into specific combinations because if you don't, nobody will group with you.

[Eldryth]

there is no detail HOW they are combined, is there?

Well, it shows a Night Elf using both Paladin-restricted armor and dual-wielding DK-restricted weapons, so that already seems well beyond the scope of just talents themed around another class (and given that it doesn't have DK eyes, it'd have to be a Night Elf Paladin, an unavailable option- and new class/race combos would probably be listed as a feature if they were coming too).

And even in your interpretation (which is really stretching what it says a lot to try and make it workable, imo), there's a lot of stuff that wouldn't make sense. It'd still be 12 new Hero Specs they'd need to make and balance for every single spec. And after Shadowlands, they know very well how unpopular it was to force in skills that clash horribly with your class's aesthetics.

Plus the name makes no sense whatsoever even with your interpretation. If it were a talent tree, they'd surely call it some kind of Talents. Multiclass Talents or something like that, rather than replacing the part of the name that all trees have in common and actually tells you what the feature is.

[Enrif]

But it says "Hero Class," which is already in use.

Blizzard can always decide to repurpose the term if they feel like the old concept has done its thing and is no longer relevant, but even if they did this still goes against their Hero Talent bet and would confuse players a lot.

"with Midnight we introduce a evolution to the hero talent system, no longer are you just bound to themes close to your class, but can dive into other classes themes too, making your own hero class"

done. if that is confusing, than that is on your understanding. And people are still confused about the "going to the old world" as meaning going to the past. If people fail to understand clear concepts, it is on their lack of understanding, not on the explanation of that concept.